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atb1137
06-17-2011, 05:39 PM
i fianlly bought a enclosed trailer. i had an open 5x8 trailer that my 03 dodge ram 1500 could pull no problem . im now pulling a 6x12 with obviously more equipment.now im looking for something like a f250 or something along those lines. i was wondering what most of you prefer a diesel or unleaded gasoline trucks. i dont know much abut diesels besides theyr great for towing.

unkownfl
06-17-2011, 11:26 PM
Your 1500 can pull a 6x12 with ease. I used my f150 with a v6 and pulled/stopped well. You will get better mileage with a diesel over a gasser imho and his is why I just bought an old IDI Ford Diesel.

Truitt Lawn Maintenance
07-04-2011, 02:09 PM
i just bought an f25 deisel 2008 fir my 14 ft trailer. i tell you what i was pulling it with a 2004 ram 1500 and there is a world of difference! i dont even feel the thing back there. i get alittle better gas mileage but when i go to the gas station i feel like im giving the an arm and a leg. but i am happy with my decision

Barrett Landscaping
07-04-2011, 08:29 PM
for that small of a trailer you do not need a diesel truck. you only NEED one if you are pulling over 7,000# daily or doing alot of highway travel with a load. You need to think of what is pratical now and what you might grow into in the future.

atb1137
09-06-2011, 09:57 AM
the problem im havins is when i have the bed filled and towing the trailer my bed is dragging and the truck is just too slow on the highway.i amtryng to plan for the future thats why i am leaning toward a diesel but man they are expensive even used

mowerbrad
09-06-2011, 10:13 AM
I still don't see a diesel being beneficial to you at this point. A 6x12 trailer isn't much and can't really haul enough equipment to justify a diesel. What it sounds like, is that you want a "beefier" truck to handle the weight better when you have your bed full and towing a trailer. Honestly, you could go with a 2500HD truck, put some additional helper springs or air bags in the rear to help with the weight and any "sagging" problems.

A 3/4 ton truck will really help with what you are looking for. Personally, I think the gas engine will be just fine in a 3/4 ton. Now, you can get a diesel if you really want but you will be spending more up front and more to maintain the vehicle. You will get a little better fuel economy but you do typcially pay more per gallon of diesel, so you may not see much in savings.

atb1137
09-06-2011, 11:43 AM
okk . sounds reasonable. i was really leaning toawrd the diesel for mileag but i understand what your saying dealing with the price of diesel and the maintenance of the truck. do you know what kind of mileage a gas 2500 would be getting??

KrayzKajun
09-06-2011, 11:58 AM
It seems your best option would be to add a set of airbags or beefier leaf springs on yur current truck.
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atb1137
09-06-2011, 12:02 PM
my current truck only has a 6ft bedand is a quadcab.plus i need somethin a little more reliable with lower mileage. i would like the 8ft with just the reg cab.i dont neeed the quad cab anymore.

rkeguy
09-06-2011, 01:53 PM
A 90-96 F150 with the I6 engine will pull just about anything from my experience. I have pulled a 16' car trailer loaded with two cars and maintained cruising speed on interstate. The I6 engine is known for its torque and indestructable engines. My 92 now has 230K and pulls my 5x10 trailer now with ease.

I would consider a trucks torque before the horsepower. I've been told that a automatics will have higher torque rating than 5 speed manual. I agree with the add-a-leaf spring helpers which clamps onto your leaf springs or air bags if you have room for compressor.

Tvov
09-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Definitely get at least an extended cab... you will not like a regular cab after having a quad cab.

Just driving around town, a diesel doesn't get that much better mileage. Especially if you are a lead foot and keep using the turbo - in which case you may even get worse mileage. Where a diesel really shines is on the highway -- power for towing and higher (50%+) fuel mileage.

I have a small lawn service, and had a 2000 F250 diesel for a few years. I found it to be completely unnecessary for a small landscaper/lawn service. What I didn't expect was the cost and effort of maintenance. 4 gallon oil changes, regular replacement of fuel filters (that cost $$$), worry about the anti-freeze... seemed like every time I turned around there was some new, different maintenance item I had to take care of. Add in the higher (on average) cost of diesel fuel in my area, and the cost of owning the diesel truck was not worth it.

For companies that already have diesel equipment (hardscapers, excavators, etc) and are used to diesel engines, the diesel pickup trucks fit right in.

In my case I found it to be expensive and not worth it.

hosejockey2002
09-06-2011, 04:02 PM
I've got a 2500HD and pull a 6x12 enclosed, and even with the bed of the truck heavily loaded I go as fast as I want to go up any hill. I average about 10 mpg. Like others have said unless you tow very heavy and run lots of miles you don't need a diesel. In fact you couldn't give me a diesel pickup newer than '07 with all the emission BS they are saddled with now. Now, if you want a diesel because you have to have the biggest and baddest, then you have psychological issues that I cannot help you with. :laugh:

MDLawn
09-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Do you own the Dodge outright? If so keep it or find a good used reg or ext cab 1/2-3/4 ton truck with that cash. That way you are not out any money. Do you snow plow? If not get a 2wd because they are cheaper. What are you planning to do with your business? If it's mowing only get the reg cab 2wd 1/2 or 3/4 ton. Do you plan on doing mulching, topsoil, or heavier landscaping work? Then invest in the 3/4-1 ton or dump truck for load carrying. There are sooo many variables to what truck you need vs. want. If I could do it over again, 2wd F350 (single or dual wheel) total basic package. I focused on the landscaping more. I hated using my good F250 for working. Got scratched and beat eventhough I tried my best to avoid things.

Do you want the truck to work for you or you working for the truck? If your truck is paid off and all you do is mow let that truck work for you! Why make payments if you don't have to. Maybe you do so well and stuff cash away because you dont have a payment and you can buy what you want in 5 years with cash!

As far as diesel or gas goes that's a preference like Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Heavy hauling every day, diesels probably come out on top. Towing a few thousand pounds, does it make a difference?

Also in regard to fuel mpg's. If you have ZERO payments and then go buy a much more expensive diesel truck the fuel savings doesn't mean squat as you increased your monthly expenses anyways by hundreds of dollars in a payment. Make sense?

mowerbrad
09-06-2011, 05:05 PM
okk . sounds reasonable. i was really leaning toawrd the diesel for mileag but i understand what your saying dealing with the price of diesel and the maintenance of the truck. do you know what kind of mileage a gas 2500 would be getting??

I have heard a very large spread of fuel mileage numbers from owners of 2500HD's. My current truck is a 2007 Chevy 2500HD (new body style), 4x4, extended cab, LT package with 3.73 gears. My numbers vary depending on what I am doing. My truck is both my personal and business truck, so I have found out what fuel mileage I get in a variety of situations. When I am driving empty I can get 17+ mpg on the highway doing 70mph (cruise on), roughly 13-14mpg in the city with a light foot (occasionally near 15 if I'm really good). Now towing is a big difference, with a light foot and towing 6000lbs or so, I can get a little over 9mpg with a mix of highway and city.

You will definately want an extended cab, the convenience is awesome. I went from a single cab to an extended cab and will never go back to a single cab, even in a work truck. I do have a short bed, but it fits everything I need.

360ci
09-07-2011, 11:49 PM
If you don't plan to get into plowing, stick with the 1/2 ton. Keep in mind you buy a truck to suit current business needs and perhaps some future growth.

A smaller gas V8 is all you need. As mentioned, if you're not towing over tree tons on a regular basis a half ton can more than handle the regular abuse. If you don't like the rear end squat when loaded, and don't go overweight, it'll be best to get air shocks or add-a-leaf springs installed for the extra stability. For a small trailer it doesn't make sense to run a load distributing hitch unless the tongue weight is 400lbs or greater.

Gas engines are also easier to maintain and replace parts are less expensive. I'm not sure about the big diesels, but my small Sprinter 2.7L that I use for another business gets great mileage, doesn't have much for passing power on the highway but is QUICK in town. A fuel filter runs $110 installed, oil change - $150 every 8-9K miles, and that's not including associated costs such as replacing glow plugs and other parts. The 2.7L is also an inline design not a V8, so it should last another 250K before I have any major problems with it. Pre emissions is the only way to go. Once you get into the AdBlu or Urea injection, costs increase even further on replacement parts (aka, regular maintenance on a diesel). I prefer diesels, but not at the expense of their size.

I heard GM should be out, as early as next year, with a smaller 4.5L diesel (yes, the same one from a few years ago that was put on the shelf for bankruptcy issues), is now back on the table and will show up in the 2500 series trucks first which I think is a good thing. I'd like to have the capability of a HD plow truck, but I don't need to tow 16K with the larger diesel. The smaller diesel makes sense here if you want to wait a bit and buy new, it's the one I'd go with - lets go GM! I must say I prefer Dodge's inline design, however I do not have a need for a 6-7L diesel engine; it's overkill for 80% of applications.

As for cab configuration that's a personal preference. I think it's wrong to buy a vehicle just on fuel mileage alone. Commercial trucks are called trucks for a reason - they're there to work regardless of fuel consumption you have to keep in mind that you are buying this truck for WORK. As it was also mentioned, if you need a big honkin HD truck just to get groceries in, you have psychological issues that need to be dealt with.

BCL Services
09-08-2011, 06:58 PM
I fell for the diesel hype a few years back. Don't do it, it truly doesn't make sense if you are pulling a small rig around daily. I purchased a f250 with the power stroke diesel and the mileage I saw was minimally better at best maybe 2 mpg better than a gasser. And if you get on it at all those 2 mpgs go away quick. But what doesn't go away are the expensive maintenance costs. That power stroke i had held 15 quarts of oil. $175 oil changes get old quick. Oh and fuel filters need changed regularly. Not to mention if it breaks down your looking at tons o' cash. I traded that money pit in on a new gas truck that gets the same mileage without all the BS.

Now if your pulling around heavy equipment regularly, by all means the diesel is a must but a lawn maintenance rig does not require a diesel whatsoever. The air bag assist is a great idea.

NORTHMAN
09-08-2011, 07:15 PM
Like the others said,get a gas truck.I just traded in a Dodge/Cummins for a new GMC 3500HD gas.I've also had a diesel Ford F-350,Toyota Landcruiser(gray market) and a VW Jetta,the Jetta is the only one I'm sorry I don't still have.Please listen to what others have said,don't make a very expensive mistake.Good luck.

JDiepstra
09-08-2011, 07:19 PM
Looks like im getting 50% better mileage with my truck than what these fellas are with their gas jobs. A 3 gallon oil change every 20,000 miles is not very expensive. A fuel filter is about $10 every 10,000 miles. If you are going to be doing some heavy plowing, you will rejoice that you have a diesel. They are more powerful, last longer, have better resale value, use less fuel, require less maintenance and are in general much more fun if you know what i mean.

MDLawn
09-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I've never understood the better resale thing. If you buy a diesel truck for $45k and a gas truck for $38k and the sell the diesel for $20k and the gasser for $13k what's the difference?? You spent $7k more on the diesel, right? Maybe I invested the $7k and made 2% each year on it and now have more. When I was searching for a truck this was the situation I was running into. The diesels were higher by nothing more than the cost difference of the motor. If you need it you need it, not a problem. I agree they are better in some cases. Better resale?? It cost more in the first place.
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JDiepstra
09-08-2011, 08:33 PM
I've never understood the better resale thing. If you buy a diesel truck for $45k and a gas truck for $38k and the sell the diesel for $20k and the gasser for $13k what's the difference?? You spent $7k more on the diesel, right? Maybe I invested the $7k and made 2% each year on it and now have more. When I was searching for a truck this was the situation I was running into. The diesels were higher by nothing more than the cost difference of the motor. If you need it you need it, not a problem. I agree they are better in some cases. Better resale?? It cost more in the first place.
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Yes that is true that it costs more to buy. Then you get more when you sell it. That shoots down the point people have been trying to make that it costs more to buy. So what if it costs more to buy..... You get more back when you sell.

Also yes maybe you can invest your 5k and make 2% but you can also lose big time. Have you watched or listened to the news at all over the last 5 years? At 2% youre losing money because you arent even keeping up with inflation.

MDLawn
09-08-2011, 09:25 PM
Savings aside. If I just kept the $7k that I would have spent on a diesel we both end up with the same money in the end. We could argue back and forth until were blue in the face. A pot of money worth $45k is still worth $45k no matter how you divide it. Vehicles aren't assests, they're liabilities and do nothing but cost money. No one sells a vehicle and pockets the money. It just gets put into the next one so its not like any of us "make" money on a vehicle. If you put $20k into another $45k or I put $13k into another $38k what's the difference?? In my neck of the woods no one keeps vehicles long enough to justify fuel savings, longevity, or anything else as they just rot from the salt used.
Even if you pocket the money and I was able to hold on to that $7k I initially saved and pocket my truck sale guess what...were both at the same money again. Sorry I just don't see it.

Work trucks are bought on preference and/or need. Each gas and diesel truck serve their purpose.
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JDiepstra
09-08-2011, 09:39 PM
OSavings aside. If I just kept the $7k that I would have spent on a diesel we both end up with the same money in the end. We could argue back and forth until were blue in the face. A pot of money worth $45k is still worth $45k no matter how you divide it. Vehicles aren't assests, they're liabilities and do nothing but cost money. No one sells a vehicle and pockets the money. It just gets put into the next one so its not like any of us "make" money on a vehicle. If you put $20k into another $45k or I put $13k into another $38k what's the difference?? In my neck of the woods no one keeps vehicles long enough to justify fuel savings, longevity, or anything else as they just rot from the salt used.
Even if you pocket the money and I was able to hold on to that $7k I initially saved and pocket my truck sale guess what...were both at the same money again. Sorry I just don't see it.

Work trucks are bought on preference and/or need. Each gas and diesel truck serve their purpose.
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You may be confused.... I agree with what you are saying.
My point is that guys on here say the large fuel savings is offset by the larger purchase price. My point, and yours it seems, is that the higher purchase price is irrelevant because you get the money back when you sell the vehicle anyway. So the large fuel savings is not offset by the higher purchase price. It is actual savings. We use plenty of salt here in Michigan and trucks last plenty long if properly cared for.

MDLawn
09-08-2011, 09:49 PM
Oh ha sorry! I'd argue the fuel savings thing but really, who cares. Just get whatever fuel burner you want.
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unkownfl
09-08-2011, 10:04 PM
My oil goes right into the fuel tank and I change it myself. I spend the same amount on a oil change for 4 gallons as I do my 5qt f150. My mileage is 45% better than my f150 pulling my rig. If I subtract the 8% cost of buying diesel over gas I'm still ahead.

JDiepstra
09-08-2011, 10:09 PM
My oil goes right into the fuel tank and I change it myself. I spend the same amount on a oil change for 4 gallons as I do my 5qt f150. My mileage is 45% better than my f150 pulling my rig. If I subtract the 8% cost of buying diesel over gas I'm still ahead.

You put your dirty oil into your fuel tank?

MDLawn
09-08-2011, 10:32 PM
Sorry but I can't help myself. I just looked up diesel motor oil and I found it for around 16.99 a gallon. So 4 gallons would be $67.96. Thats just oil. I never performed an oil change on my 5.4 F250 for more than $30. I just don't see it, sorry. Even using Motorcraft 5w20 at 4.99 a quart ($35) plus a motorcraft filter (4.99) for a total of $40. Still less than the oil only. Everything requires maintenance and who cares what it costs because you have to maintain what you have, but I feel like the truth isnt being told. Unless you buy it by the 50 gallon drum and get a discount.

JDiepstra
09-08-2011, 10:37 PM
But i go 20,000 miles between oil changes and my Cummins uses 3 gallons,.so...??? Do the math. I come out ahead then too.

MDLawn
09-08-2011, 10:48 PM
I know I know...diesels are far superior to anything on the planet ;-). To the OP just get whatever truck YOU want whether it burns gasoline or diesel. I have a suspicion EITHER will get the job done whether one is faster, blows black smoke, or it crawls along. There are die hard diesel and die hard gas fans. I'm in the middle. Get what suits you.
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unkownfl
09-08-2011, 11:49 PM
You put your dirty oil into your fuel tank?

Yes I do. I have an older IDI Ford also. I do the same for my older Mercedes. As long as you don't get water in it it's fine. I also pour my trans fluid in it as well when I do change it on my autos. The idi is a stick. All my mower oil gets burnt as well. I wouldn't run more than a 50/50 mix in it because it tends to smell a little. Sometimes I throw in a few gallons of veggie to make it smell like fries. 12.99 per gallon for oil and a 5 dollar filter 7,500 mile oil changes. 2010 f150 4.6 3v 5.5 qts of motorcraft and motorcraft filter usually runs me 30 bucks vs the 40 bucks it takes to change the oil in the IDI but I get 2500 miles extra out of it. Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything I couldn't work on so if a diesel is complicated to you stay clear.

mybowtie
09-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Diesel fuel around here is .42c a gal more. My diesel gets 15mpg's towing my trailer. I just traded it in for a new 6.0 gasser. I pick it up next week after the upfitter gets the dump installed and painted. If I get 10mpg's towing my trailer, the gasser will cost me less per mile. I could get as low as 8mpg w the gasser and still cost less per mile then the diesel.

Oil changes are a wash...I go 10k w the dmax. syn oil and filter runs me about $85. The gasser will run me about $30 per oil change every 3k..

As far as resale, yes I got more for my diesel then if it was a gas, but I also pd more for my diesel then a gaser.

If you tow 7k or more every day, then the diesel is the way to go. I like my diesel, and will miss it, but it a work truck, and the gasses will cost ME less per mile to run.

JDiepstra
09-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Diesel fuel around here is .42c a gal more. My diesel gets 15mpg's towing my trailer. I just traded it in for a new 6.0 gasser. I pick it up next week after the upfitter gets the dump installed and painted. If I get 10mpg's towing my trailer, the gasser will cost me less per mile. I could get as low as 8mpg w the gasser and still cost less per mile then the diesel.

Oil changes are a wash...I go 10k w the dmax. syn oil and filter runs me about $85. The gasser will run me about $30 per oil change every 3k..

As far as resale, yes I got more for my diesel then if it was a gas, but I also pd more for my diesel then a gaser.

If you tow 7k or more every day, then the diesel is the way to go. I like my diesel, and will miss it, but it a work truck, and the gasses will cost ME less per mile to run.

Wait til u start plowing w the gasser! :laugh:

2stroked
09-09-2011, 08:38 PM
stay with the ram 1500. it's built exactly for what your using it for.

unkownfl
09-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Diesel fuel around here is .42c a gal more. My diesel gets 15mpg's towing my trailer. I just traded it in for a new 6.0 gasser. I pick it up next week after the upfitter gets the dump installed and painted. If I get 10mpg's towing my trailer, the gasser will cost me less per mile. I could get as low as 8mpg w the gasser and still cost less per mile then the diesel.

Oil changes are a wash...I go 10k w the dmax. syn oil and filter runs me about $85. The gasser will run me about $30 per oil change every 3k..

As far as resale, yes I got more for my diesel then if it was a gas, but I also pd more for my diesel then a gaser.

If you tow 7k or more every day, then the diesel is the way to go. I like my diesel, and will miss it, but it a work truck, and the gasses will cost ME less per mile to run.

I don't know how your doing your math? If your diesel gets 15mpg, and your gas gets 8 that's like an 88% difference. 42¢ difference can't be 88%?

mybowtie
09-09-2011, 11:57 PM
thats IF i get as low as 8mpg.... i have a 01 3500 6.0 dump now also. I did the math.. in my situation, the gasser is cheaper to run then the diesel.

Jd, I HAVE plowed w a gasser for many yrs befor I got my dmax.

Alls im saying is the diesels are not the answer to everyones truck needs.
I used to thing they were. I was just like MOST diesel owners, If it wasnt a diesel it wasnt a real truck..Someone towing 3-4 k 95% of the time does not NEED a diesel. Tow 7k plus 2-3 times a week? yes the diesel will be a better fit.

mybowtie
09-10-2011, 12:03 AM
I don't know how your doing your math? If your diesel gets 15mpg, and your gas gets 8 that's like an 88% difference. 42¢ difference can't be 88%?

U better go back to school..Half of 15mpgs is 7.5..so 8mpg is LESS then 50%

Think before U type...:hammerhead:

unkownfl
09-10-2011, 12:16 AM
thats IF i get as low as 8mpg.... i have a 01 3500 6.0 dump now also. I did the math.. in my situation, the gasser is cheaper to run then the diesel.

Jd, I HAVE plowed w a gasser for many yrs befor I got my dmax.

Alls im saying is the diesels are not the answer to everyones truck needs.
I used to thing they were. I was just like MOST diesel owners, If it wasnt a diesel it wasnt a real truck..Someone towing 3-4 k 95% of the time does not NEED a diesel. Tow 7k plus 2-3 times a week? yes the diesel will be a better fit.

Well if you're talking strictly fuel price difference, then you'd need to get more like 13.5mpg to break even. That would be a 10% price difference. I highly doubt your 6.0 is even going to get over 10. I had a 4.3 and a 5.3 I think 1500 Chevy and neither one got more than 12 as a regular cab pulling an open 6x12 single axle with 2000lbs on it. Same trailer with my 4.63v f150 got around 10. I'm with you a diesel isn't for everyone and isn't a cure all; however, strictly fuel mileage a diesel is going to out perform every time. Diesel engines are more efficient and diesel has more energy than gasoline. About 125kbtu vs 150ish off the top of my head (20%).

unkownfl
09-10-2011, 12:18 AM
U better go back to school..Half of 15mpgs is 7.5..so 8mpg is LESS then 50%

Think before U type...:hammerhead:

Seriously....... that's a 100% difference :hammerhead: I'd love to see how you figure your profit margin... Wish I could curse sometimes on this site, but it looks like this ******* dumb ****. 7.5+100%=15 or 7.5x1=+7.5=15

unkownfl
09-10-2011, 12:37 AM
Let me put it to you like this... Is going from 15 to 7.5 going to increase your fuel bill by 50% or double it??? 11.25 would be increasing it 50% your doing your math backwards. Sorry for this insult I feel bad now that you may be just looking at the problem wrong. It was to late to edit my post. Like I said before you'd have to get 13.5mpg in the 6.0 to get the same fuel bill as your older diesel.

NORTHMAN
09-10-2011, 10:49 AM
If anyone is in doubt what a truck with a gas engine can do,go on PLOWSITE and search the posts for Alaska Boss,he uses a gas powered truck and plows as much if not more snow than anyone on the site.

mybowtie
09-10-2011, 01:22 PM
Let me put it to you like this... Is going from 15 to 7.5 going to increase your fuel bill by 50% or double it??? 11.25 would be increasing it 50% your doing your math backwards. Sorry for this insult I feel bad now that you may be just looking at the problem wrong. It was to late to edit my post. Like I said before you'd have to get 13.5mpg in the 6.0 to get the same fuel bill as your older diesel.

Let me put it like this....I own both diesel and gas trucks..I know how much it costs ME to maintain each, and how much per mile it cost ME to run each.
I factor in not only fuel/filter, oil/filter and schedualed maint, but factor in the cost of unschedualed issues as well. All rigs break down, gassers are less expensive to repair.

I will miss my dmax..I like the power, the sound, and well just liked havin one..lol. Its not my daily driver, its a work truck. I have pulled my trailer with each rig, and the 1 ton dump gasser I have now gets VERY close to the same millage my dmax does towing my trailer. The new gasser will cost me less per mile to run with everything factored in.

No insult taken, everyone has to decide what works best for there situation.
Diesel will have to drop to within .22cents of gas for the diesel to cost me less to run.

MDLawn
09-10-2011, 05:40 PM
If anyone is in doubt what a truck with a gas engine can do,go on PLOWSITE and search the posts for Alaska Boss,he uses a gas powered truck and plows as much if not more snow than anyone on the site.

Wow great point. I've gone through his picture thread and he goes through massive amounts of snow and absolutely frigid temperatures. Not to mention his pictures of the Alaskan wilderness are absolutely amazing!



I belong to a Ford truck forum and a thread was going on about V10 vs. Diesel. This thread had about 13,000 replies, yes 13,000 and 376,000 views. Not to long ago the moderators finally closed the thread and no one can post anymore in it because it started getting vulgar and offensive. I think the lesson from this is the gas guys and the diesel guys will fight until the end of time. It's just like the die hards for Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. Try convincing one to use the other brand.

If I had money to throw around a new/new used diesel would be in my driveway out of pure want. I mean a new Ford diesel puts out 400HP and 800TQ, good grief!! I found on deal on my current gas rig that was just to good. I wasnt ready to part with 7 grand just to have "it" for a similar diesel, I just dont tow enough. Even some of the larger companies on here go both ways. Some swear by diesel and others switch back to gas.

All I'm saying is this diesel vs. gas argument will never end and if you're happy with what you have and make the money you want why keep defending yourself?

mybowtie
09-10-2011, 06:36 PM
Wow great point. I've gone through his picture thread and he goes through massive amounts of snow and absolutely frigid temperatures. Not to mention his pictures of the Alaskan wilderness are absolutely amazing!



I belong to a Ford truck forum and a thread was going on about V10 vs. Diesel. This thread had about 13,000 replies, yes 13,000 and 376,000 views. Not to long ago the moderators finally closed the thread and no one can post anymore in it because it started getting vulgar and offensive. I think the lesson from this is the gas guys and the diesel guys will fight until the end of time. It's just like the die hards for Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. Try convincing one to use the other brand.

If I had money to throw around a new/new used diesel would be in my driveway out of pure want. I mean a new Ford diesel puts out 400HP and 800TQ, good grief!! I found on deal on my current gas rig that was just to good. I wasnt ready to part with 7 grand just to have "it" for a similar diesel, I just dont tow enough. Even some of the larger companies on here go both ways. Some swear by diesel and others switch back to gas.

All I'm saying is this diesel vs. gas argument will never end and if you're happy with what you have and make the money you want why keep defending yourself?

His pics are amazing, and I hope we never get that much snow, but last yr was close...lol

You are correct, some guys will never like a gasser and will bash them to the end, and vise virsa. I like em both. If i needed both I would have both. :rolleyes: Huh.. maybe i should buy a 5th wheel camper so I'd NEED both...lol:rolleyes:

thunderthud
09-10-2011, 07:23 PM
In 2004 we ran nothing but diesel 2500HD's, 4500 and 5500 trucks with stake bodies and what are now Mack Pinnacle day cab 26 ft van bodies. The 2500's got about 12mpg, when the new DPF systems came into being for the 2006-2007 trucks, the MPG dropped into the 10mpg range. All our service trucks are either half ton, or CDL 33,000lb trucks.

We stopped buying any medium duty trucks because it simply wasn't worth the hassle to have the diesel truck for the smaller trucks. The cost was high for load carried, and the fuel economy was close enough to a Class 7 or 8 truck to be a wash.

The class 7-8 Macks were getting somewhere in the 5-8mpg range pre '07 emissions, 5 mpg post emissions. These marked the last order for Macks we made because the cost of the truck combined with the dismal fuel economy was killing the bottom line.

In 2009 we went to all Hino 338's with 22ft van bodies and 1500 gas Silverados across the board. The medium duty trucks were all replaced with one 338 with a Ampliroll hooklift.

The 2009-10 Hinos pre-SCR got 7.5mpg, which was a big boost to the economy against the Mack. The 2011 Hinos with SCR now rate 10mpg. Which is fantastic economy for a 33,000lb rated truck. The Hinos were half the cost of the Mack and though a bit under-powered on huge hills work quite well around town and on the highways. The cost of the SCR fluid is an annoyance, but in a toter it is not cost prohibitive, but does add about .12 a gallon to the price of diesel to cover the SCR fluid.

The pickups we run are not daily work trucks, they are more employee shuttles. Having a CDL rated truck for everything allows us to use the big toolbox theory for our trucks and have everything that could be needed right on the truck. The cost of a 1500 was substantially less than a 2500, we weren't paying $7500.00 for the diesel, and we saved in maintenance going to synthetic oil and 10k oil changes. The trucks get a combined 15mpg on the road for the most part, and the guys seem to like them.

We settled onto a formula that worked for us. We did buy a couple of Hybrid Silverados but found the upfront cost would have bought an awful lot of fuel and the MPG was not that great except for one truck that went to Boston daily on 93 south. It was a wash in cost for regular gas Silverado and that Hybrid.

The next trucks in line for us are CNG Freightliner Class 8 trucks, and a return to medium duty for our plumber and electrician with Roush propane F-550's with utility bodies. I'm worried about the rising cost of fuel enough to start thinking of how to use CNG and LPG more and more in the equipment. $5.00 a gallon diesel is not far off, and other than long runs, I'd like to see how well $2.00 a gallon CNG works out for us in the bigger trucks.

I'm waiting on two Smith Newton electric trucks in December that were stunningly expensive up front, but if I can start saving on fuel daily, hopefully some of the costs not covered by tax credit and state credits will pay off.

In a week I can spend $12,000-$15,000 on fuel. Every MPG I can get saves us money. A fleet of $100,000 Newtons will pay for itself rather quickly with $4.00 a day electric bills per truck. I'm trying to hit on a formula for us that saves and still allows us to work the way we feel we need to work. If I can save a couple bucks here and there it will add up quickly. For me a 10% change in fuel economy is $55,000 a year on the low end. I could hire one more laborer for that kind of savings and still come out at the end of the year even.

The electric trucks are a warm weather friend, they can't plow or really run in, the snow, but I can eat the cost of fuel for the dump trucks with plows as the cost of being in New England.

For me, the cost of gas or diesel is a constant battle. The needs of the company don't change, so I have to look at what will allow us to work with the lowest cost.

NORTHMAN
09-10-2011, 09:20 PM
MDLawn,hopeful we can keep it more civil.Reading Alaska Boss's posts convinced me you don't nee a diesel to push snow.

MDLawn
09-10-2011, 11:01 PM
MDLawn,hopeful we can keep it more civil.Reading Alaska Boss's posts convinced me you don't nee a diesel to push snow.

I don't plow snow but the scenery pics he posts are truly amazing. Great place to visit if possible.

MDLawn
09-11-2011, 09:17 AM
Thunder, you are in a world that 90% of lawnsiter's will never see, including myself. $10-15k in weekly fuel, most on here may see that in a year, if not less than that. With that type of unstable expense, due to constant price fluctuations, each bit you saves makes a large impact. Your fuel savings is probably more than some solo ops income! It'll be interesting to see how those alternative fuels work for you.
With the rapidly expanding economies of China and some developing nations the price of fuel is bound to rise because demand is ever increasing not matter what you drive. Even with all the changes in fuel efficient cars here in the US the global demand is too much.
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thunderthud
09-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Thunder, you are in a world that 90% of lawnsiter's will never see, including myself. $10-15k in weekly fuel, most on here may see that in a year, if not less than that. With that type of unstable expense, due to constant price fluctuations, each bit you saves makes a large impact. Your fuel savings is probably more than some solo ops income! It'll be interesting to see how those alternative fuels work for you.
With the rapidly expanding economies of China and some developing nations the price of fuel is bound to rise because demand is ever increasing not matter what you drive. Even with all the changes in fuel efficient cars here in the US the global demand is too much.
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The reason I waded in was the OP bought a new trailer and had a question. I've spent so much time with the questions on a fairly large scale, that the experience tells me to do the research that will benefit my bottom line.

If I were leaving this job and going to do this on my own, I would buy a gas truck.

The diesel difference in smaller trucks is long gone. SCR has improved the diesel performance, but the fluid cost is way too, pardon the pun, fluid. I can't justify the $4.03 a gallon cost for diesel in New England anyway, on top of the retail cost for SCR fluid, when the V10 Ford is $8,000 cheaper has no recurring cost plus gas was $3.60 last night.

I can stomach 8mpg in the pre-SCR Hino all day every day because it is a 33,000lb truck. The SCR Hino 338 with the dump body gets 10MPG and the Hino 338 with the van body gets 10mpg. For a shocker, between my three Mack Granite tri-axles, one driver gets 9mpg all day long while the other two get 5mpg. The difference? One guy spends all day driving the green leaf on the dashboard. Those are all matching 2009 Granite dumps with stainless bodies.

I've been pleased with the Silverados in gas, they get excellent mileage and have been a solid truck requiring only routine maintenance. In a world were the price of gas has little to do with the cost of oil, and the cost rising daily because of whatever goes on half a world away, I would think long and hard about buying something that had an $8,000 up front cost.

I've learned quite a bit over the years from this forum. I hope my info is useful to the discussion. What we do a fairly large scale can be downsized into any company. Every dollar you can save or not spend can go right into your pocket. I don't have the luxury of working on a tight route, I have properties in five states and supply them all from one location.

Good luck with your choice of a truck. Fleet experience tells me you want to save money and buy a gas truck; it will do everything you need it to do. Then again, I will pick up a penny off the ground, and I know others who I've worked with who simply throw them on the ground.

MDLawn
09-12-2011, 11:07 AM
Every dollar you can save or not spend can go right into your pocket.


Pretty much sums up everthing about business with that right there, no matter what you choose to drive.

If I ever buy another truck for business purposes (solo) it will be the uncoolest, cheapest, reg cab, DRW (for payload), 2wd (don't plow) in good condition (and keep it looking nice), with whatever motor (no beaters, possibly a dump). That truck will by far make me the most money than a loaded crew cab diesel/V8/V10 ever will.

cartz-rc30
09-13-2011, 03:04 PM
ive been happy with the dodge rams and owned v8 v10 and now a diesel, and since these are my driver not just business truck, i can say i wasnt too happy with the lack of umph the v8 had but the v10 was great and i went diesel for the mpg over the v10. v10 was getting 13 mpg hwy and the diesel gets almost 20 mpg, and i drive all over with my machine or goin to get cars to fix and resell so the added mpg the diesel offered were a big push for me. also i got the truck for a steal of a price and made alot off the v10 truck it replaced as well. would i like a diesel for a dump or business specific truck? sure but if i came across a nice v10 id grab it in a heartbeat !!

Dfordiesel
09-18-2011, 06:03 PM
It seems as though maintaining is an expensive problem on diesels... But as a long time mechanic on gas/diesel/gas turbine/ and steam power for the military...i can say this... We used both gassers and diesels .. Diesel is far superior.. They build power as droop is happening.. Economy is diff in fav of diesel.. Gas engines have sensors out the ying yang...electronics everywhere...and have since the early 80's...so when it comes to maintaining... An older diesel will outshine anything...gas cant touch diesel reliability economy or power... However...both sides are making strides to out-do each other more than ever!
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Dfordiesel
09-18-2011, 06:17 PM
I have an EL model 17' uhaul van..(E350) idi non-turbo 7.3l ... No issue other than filters...20 bux every 30k...not even an issue...i buy the oil when it goes on sale 4 around 11 bux a gal of delo or tection extra... But the big diff in diesel if u wanna point out the big plus is the ability to use multiple fuels...mix kerosene from craigslist with sum trans fluids or engine oil and ur set...Cooking oil is everywhere...Plus just about any shop will give u waste fluids... Maybe nt so much for a new truck...But will do fine in an older ford or dodge... It is about preference...And i prefer getting free fuel and i prefer diesel...Just less stuff that breaks..Everything does break...But a diesel will give u time before that happens... Oh and my 11k lbs truck plus 7k lbs in bk still gets 15mpg in town..and i could still tow another 10k lbs...almost 30k lbs and 12mpg...no brainer...
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