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View Full Version : mower down for a MONTH!


IBGreen
10-17-2002, 08:06 PM
Today my Husqvarna ztr was ready for a new mulch kit. So I took it to the local dealer and had him install the blades and baffles. I was back there watching him and talking. He took two of the bolts out of the spindle and when he went to the third it came out about a quarter inch them it stopped. The impact could not turn it. So after afew minutes I told him I was going to go get some lunch, when I returned he was using the biggest ratchet and cheater bar I've ever seen! You know what happened next, the head of the bolst broke off and the rest is in the spindle stuck! So he goes to call Husqvarna and for a new spindle assembley it will take a month! Oh my god what will I do? I was talking to Lee a ExMark rep for Arkansas and he was letting me know about exmark's parts being shipped in 24hrs. So when Husky gets theztr going I'm going to try to sell it. What should I buy?

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

mdb landscaping
10-17-2002, 08:09 PM
thats total BS. id call husqvarna direct if you have to, to complain. if that was my mower, i would be calling everyone possible complaining. theres no way those parts arent at another dealer or a warehouse.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 08:14 PM
Have any of you guys been through this? I've never heard of anything taking that long. I only have one more mower and that is a 21in. Honda I will go under if I can't cut for a month. What ztr do you all suggest?

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscping Concepts

jsaunders
10-17-2002, 08:15 PM
Looks like you answered your own question-Exmark:)

ProMo
10-17-2002, 08:41 PM
between two ex dealers in my area it took 4 days to get a belt and it was the wrong one and i had to wait two more days,the 24 hrs doesnt apply to all dealers

Randy Scott
10-17-2002, 08:42 PM
How old is the mower? I would try to get a demo or something from somebody. If your dealer is halfway decent, he should have a solution.

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 08:52 PM
That 24 hours only applies to if you "PAY" for overnight shipping, only then does it apply.

And after that if it does not come in 24 hours then it is free.

REREAD it, it says it clearly.

There is no gauruntee for parts unless you "PAY" for overnight shipping on in-stock parts from Exmark.

Now for the thread, that is pretty bad that a dealer cannot locate or go to a hardware store and pick up a bolt!!!!!!!!!!!

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:03 PM
Godfather, I never said anything about it being free. I'll gladly pay $15 for shipping a part that could keep my business running. And its not just a bolt. You may have to REREAD the post. THE BOLT IS BROKEN OFF INSIDE THE SPINDLE!

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

ProMo
10-17-2002, 09:05 PM
If we do not have the eXmark part you need in stock, we will get the part and have it available to you on the next business day or the part is FREE! Dealer participation is optional.



my dealers dont participate

KenH
10-17-2002, 09:09 PM
Why cant they use an easy out to remove the stuck/broken bolt??

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:13 PM
I would think the part would be free anyway being that it wasn't my fault. And the bolt was cross threaded when they put it back in there from sharpening the blades the last time. I always take it to them to sharpen because they are so close and they do it for free, now I see why. Get what you pay for huh?

KenH
10-17-2002, 09:18 PM
Bear with me, but why do they take the spindles off to sharpen the blades??

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:21 PM
I'm sorry I should have been more clear. What I meant was when they put the blade back on the spindle they must have cross threaded the bolt into the spindle. I guess they cross threaded it what else could have happened?

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscping Concepts

DLCS
10-17-2002, 09:22 PM
Ken, I was thinking the exact same thing.

IBgreen, Why can't they just drill it out or try using a easy out? Did they even try that? Seems like the logical thing to do. If they don't feel comfortable doing that see if a local machine shop could drill it out for you.


Mike
DLCS

KenH
10-17-2002, 09:26 PM
So the large bolt which holds the blade is stuck in the center of the spindle?? I didnt think the center of the spindle is threaded, as the blade bolt needs to spin freely.

I thought they were taking off the ENTIRE spindle assembly and one of the small bolts which holds it to the deck broke.

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by KenH
Why cant they use an easy out to remove the stuck/broken bolt??

OH it "so clearly" says it is stuck in the spindle shaft, NOT.

This and my hardware store solution will not work.

All you need is a spindle shaft and bolt, if Husky cannot provide one, and your dealer does not have one available, I would too be looking for a different brand of mower.

However a quick solution is to find a spidle assembly from another MFG and get it to fit temporarily.

BTW the "free" part has to do with the entire 24 hour thing. That is the whole deal it is free if not received within 24 hours if you payed overnight shipping. It has nothing to do with orders shipped withing 24 hours.

I have never had to use it, but between the Exmark and Toros dealers, TPEC and Exmarks distibutor, I shouldn't need it.

eslawns
10-17-2002, 09:31 PM
Now for the thread, that is pretty bad that a dealer cannot locate or go to a hardware store and pick up a bolt!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a spindle assembly. They don't carry those at hardware stores. This kind of stuff is how BS gets spread around. Somebody reads this here and repeats the story "I heard a guy..."

Why cant they use an easy out to remove the stuck/broken bolt??

Good question. Any repair shop that can't remove a broken bolt should go out of business. This guy should get his mower and take the part to an auto wheel shop. They'll get the broken bolt out in 20 minutes.

I was talking to Lee a ExMark rep for Arkansas and he was letting me know about exmark's parts being shipped in 24hrs. So when Husky gets theztr going I'm going to try to sell it.

I'd bet just about anything that any manufacturer we deal with in this industry would UPS Next Day Air or FedEx OND if you request it. And in just about any situation in any industry, you would be expected to pay the shipping costs. This would be a pretty stupid reason to sell a mower. You can bet that any potential buyer would be suspicious, and you'd likely lose your shirt.

I would think the part would be free anyway being that it wasn't my fault. And the bolt was cross threaded when they put it back in there from sharpening the blades the last time.

If this is true, your dealer should make the repairs at his expense and give you something to use in the interim. I'd demand both and contact Husky if there was a problem.

I always take it to them to sharpen because they are so close and they do it for free, now I see why. Get what you pay for huh?

You should be sharpening blades fairly often. Taking the mower to the dealer for this seems like a waste of time. As far as getting what you pay for goes, it's beside the point. If you work on enough things, you'll do this sooner or later. The bottom line here is that this whole thing is a dealer problem that should entail a dealer solution. Go to Husky if the deaeler doesn't play fair. Husky has no more control over the dealer than GM has over the lousy people who sold me my truck. I'll get another Chevy, but not from them.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:33 PM
Where did you think it was stuck? What bolt do you have to take out to put on a new blade? Once again I guess I just have to be more clear. Sorry.

Bill Davis
10-17-2002, 09:38 PM
hey IB are you in Little Rock??
if so i have a dealer that could probably take a look at it and will do great work. have a good one, Bill.

Bill Davis
10-17-2002, 09:41 PM
sorry, i checked your profile and you are in Little Rock!!
i guess you are using Power Products as your dealer. If not who else carries Husq.? I own Southern Lawn Care, LLC. in Little Rock. Just email me and I will see if i cant help you. My dealer is West Rock Company and they have a awesome mechanic out there. Hope you get it all worked out.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:46 PM
eslawns what makes you think I don't sharpen the blades often? The guy is not even a minute from my home. And I have outgrown the mower anyhow! Don't tell me what is stupid and what isn't, you don't know me or my operation. I know this post isn't a good reflection. But I'm sorta frustrated, nothing personal. It just seems like everything you say in your post is deroggative and nothing in it is constructive.

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

Bill Davis
10-17-2002, 09:48 PM
did you not read my post??

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 09:49 PM
Hey man I seen you the other day at Ar. Wholesale! How's it going, I use Mashburn's Husqvarna in the east end area.

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

Bill Davis
10-17-2002, 09:50 PM
did you work out at street performance for awhile?? you need to buy an Exmark bro.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 10:02 PM
yes I did for about three months. And yes how much do you want for it? Whats the deck/engine combo?

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by eslawns
Now for the thread, that is pretty bad that a dealer cannot locate or go to a hardware store and pick up a bolt!!!!!!!!!!!

It was a spindle assembly. They don't carry those at hardware stores. This kind of stuff is how BS gets spread around. Somebody reads this here and repeats the story "I heard a guy..."


Well damn you went to slam me for it and did it yourself!!!!! That's bad.

I thought they were taking off the ENTIRE spindle assembly and one of the small bolts which holds it to the deck broke. That is was I got out of it the first time also Ken.

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by KenH
So the large bolt which holds the blade is stuck in the center of the spindle?? I didnt think the center of the spindle is threaded, as the blade bolt needs to spin freely.

ken it if was a through bolt he wouldn't be in this perdicament.

This spindle I am guessing is threaded at both ends, and has a bolt to hold the blade on one end, and a bolt that holds the pully on, on the other end.


QUICK FIX, I have done this before.

Take your "whole" spindle to a machine shop. Have them drill out the old bolt, and drill the rest of the spindle out so you can fit a through bolt like for a Ferris WB. Then go to ferris and get a through bolt, re-assemble, and you are back in BIZ.

PS might need a few blade spacers also.

I don't think an eazy-out will get this out if he couldn't before. This must be drilled completely out, and the threads are ruined.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 10:25 PM
That is the best idea yet! You are absolutely right I'll try some of that action tomorrow. I would have never thought about using the ferris bolt and doing that. I didn't know the Ferris was like that. Experience pays eh?

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

Envy Lawn Service
10-17-2002, 11:00 PM
Geez!!!!

Surely he has another like yours in stock that he can pull the spindle from! Let him be the one to wait a month for the part. Chances are he has one back in the warehouse that hasn't even been assembled yet. No reason why he can't wait for the replacement for it RIGHT????

greenman
10-17-2002, 11:06 PM
IBGreen- you would not have service problems or dealer problems if u ever went with Exmark. Anyway, if you cant get your mower going, let me know if I can help you out. I could help you cut for a day or two if need be. You'd get to see the Exmark at work :D

Swampbeast
10-17-2002, 11:14 PM
Well! So what happened? Did you get the spindle fixed?
If I was you, I would do exactly what Lawngodfather said, I have actually done that before, and it worked perfectly well, in fact, he he, I have never replaced it!
If you do decide to get a new mower, which is always good, go with an Exmark, with whatever size deck you feel like. Exmark makes some darn good equipment. And if you dont get that, get SCAG, and if not that, Dixie Chopper. If not that, well, keep your Husq!

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 11:14 PM
Yeah that would be awsome. I may have to take you up on that. I almost bought a 36" metro from BE about 7 months ago did you end up buying it?

SLS
10-17-2002, 11:22 PM
In his starting post, IBGreen said:

"He took two of the bolts out of the spindle and when he went to the third it came out about a quarter inch them it stopped."


This is the source of confusion as to the problem. Blades are held on by only one bolt...and spindles are held on by several. By reading the above, one would naturally assume that the mechanic was removing the entire spindle assembly...not just the blade.


I too was thrown off by this one. :D

I hope you are able to get it fixed soon....what a mess. The dealer should definately be eating this one.

greenman
10-17-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by SLS
[i]

I hope you are able to get it fixed soon....what a mess. The dealer should definately be eating this one.


I was thinking the same thing.

SLS
10-17-2002, 11:32 PM
greenman sez:

"IBGreen- you would not have service problems or dealer problems if u ever went with Exmark."



I was thinking the same thing.

:D



I have a 2001 Lazer Z 60" w/23 Kawi (900 hours) and a 2002 Turf Tracer HP 36" w/ 15 Kawi (very few hours)............ and NO PROBLIMOS!

Exmark rules!

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Swampbeast
I would do exactly what Lawngodfather said, I have actually done that before, and it worked perfectly well, in fact, he he, I have never replaced it!

LOL All the Bobcat ZTR200's I had all went to this rather quickly, right after I did this to all of them, I found out DC's blade bolt is the same but 1/2" LONGER.

But oh well, never had to worry about the blade bolts again. Just had to trim the deck guards to fit the extra length out the top of the spindle. Kind liked it too, you could set the blades lower on the deck than what the MFG had them set at.

Plus didn't have to worry about stripping spindles out, only plus to though bolt types.

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 11:34 PM
IM SORRY I DID SAY HE TOOK TWO BOLTS OUT OF THE SPINDLE. I GUESS I WAS IN A HURRY. WHAT I MEANT WAS HE TOOK TWO BOLTS OUT, ONE OUT OF EACH SPINDLE SO THAT THE TWO BLADES WOULD THEN COME OFF. THEN HE WENT TO THE THIRD BOLT ON THE THIRD SPINDLE TO TAKE OFF THE THIRD BLADE AFTER HE TOOK OUT THE OTHER TWO BOLTS OUT OF THE OTHER TWO SPINDLES WHICH HOLD ON THE OTHER TWO BLADES! I'm sorry I'm a idiot.

Brandon Shaw
Evergreen Landscaping Concepts

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
Geez!!!!

Surely he has another like yours in stock that he can pull the spindle from! Let him be the one to wait a month for the part. Chances are he has one back in the warehouse that hasn't even been assembled yet. No reason why he can't wait for the replacement for it RIGHT????

This is the best idea, but that is the dealers option, and he cannot force him to do it, although it will cost the dealer a pretty penny to fix it my way for now, then replace with a new spindle later.

One of the dealers here advertised they will do that if the part is on back order, but he didn't for me and it costed him a lot of money when he was forced to buy mowers back due to this advertisement. Court's Verdict.

LAWNGODFATHER
10-17-2002, 11:46 PM
Sorry I misread your first post, and not to many others keep up with the saga of what else happens so they will post from the original post that started the thread or a few back and not read the rest.

You are not an idiot.

SLS was just posting that since there was word missing from the fraze, it messed up a lot of people, sh*t happens.

Lets forget it and move on. OK?

IBGreen
10-17-2002, 11:51 PM
Thanks LG!

SLS
10-18-2002, 12:01 AM
Nope, you are not an idiot. If you were an idiot you wouldn't be hanging out here at Lawnsite.

Hanging out at Lawnsite is the smart thing to do! :D

Another smart move.......buy an Exmark!

Nebraska
10-18-2002, 12:27 AM
Here's my $.02...

Tell the dealer who I gather caused the problem that you currently have that you'll need a loaner for that "month" your mower will be out of service. Search the internet for that part...there are a multitude of parts suppliers out there and you are bound to find it. Bring the part that you just purchased back to the dealer and have them install it for -$ whatever you paid for it. If all else fails install it yourself, sue the dealer, sell the mower, find a reliable & competent dealer and service center and buy a mower from them.

Richard Martin
10-18-2002, 03:31 AM
I believe the spindle you're looking for is availlable here:

http://j-thomas.netreach.net/Catalog_Pages/Page74.htm

You didn't say which mower it was but the spindles appear to be the same all across the ZTH line. If you look at part number 28 you will see that although the main listing is for a 60" deck the parts fit the 52, 60 and 72 inch decks. You can always call them and confirm the size. Get it next day air Fedex and you are back in business tomorrow.

Guido
10-18-2002, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by DLCS
Ken, I was thinking the exact same thing.

IBgreen, If they don't feel comfortable doing that see if a local machine shop could drill it out for you.

Run now before this gets expensive!!! This is exactly what I was thinking. Take the spindle to a machine shop or a metal shop and they will get it out for you. Worst case they'll have to tap some new threads or heli-coil it, but they will get it done. Then take the bill to your dealer, along with the quote for a new spindle and tell him to eat them both!

Thats BS, and I would be moaning to the dealer, area distributer, and directly to Husky.

awm
10-18-2002, 04:27 AM
in reading this it appears to be a inept dealer problem. i would hope this is not typical of husq. service. sure be something to think about.
print this post ,all of it, and start emailing it an callin husq. they might be thrilled with this dealer. so thrilled that they come out and hold his hand ,and guide him thru,solving of your problem.
good luck

Swampbeast
10-18-2002, 09:09 AM
Definately, try to scare this dealer a little. It seems to me he is very inept. I mean, a MONTH to get stinkin part? You can travel from here to Europe in 10 hours! Dont tell me they cant put it in a box and get it to you in less than 24 hours. Get a new dealer. Thats what I had to do, my dealership was to inept. I finally went to another one. They are much better.

Bill Davis
10-18-2002, 09:26 AM
hey IB, after talking last night i talked to Lee for a little while and he said that we need to get you in an Exmark. Read my email that i sent to ya and call me this weekend. I too could do a little extra work this weekend in exchange for some dirt work that i need to get finished. The other day at the nursery i think i was buying 24 flats of pansies and 6 yards of mulch. That job went alright it just took awhile to plany those little flowers. It all turned out looking good though.

Gravely_Man
10-18-2002, 03:30 PM
What is currently going on? Have you called Husqvarna directly and told them of the problem? Have you either talked with the dealer about the temporary workaround given previously and had them get on it or have you taken the horse by the reins and started this fix process yourself? You will only get what you ask for and this is totally unacceptable. If the dealer can't handle this for you take it to the next level with the manufacture. I wish you the best of luck in getting this resolved.


Gravely_Man

KenH
10-18-2002, 04:40 PM
Isnt this a bad design to hold the blade on?? I would think through bolts would be much more practical. (as my 'Cats and Scags) Can you imagine how tight the husky bolts must get if you hit something.:rolleyes:

ProMo
10-18-2002, 05:23 PM
sounds like the mechanics were i bought my dc and ex i had the dc in for warranty work a few years ago when the coil went out and they broke off two bolts putting the shroud back on when I noticed it they said it wouldnt hurt anything and they couldnt do anything about it thats what i told the finance company when they called asking were the payment was and it was picked up at my house and fixed and delivered back the a couple of months ago I had them look at my ex and they went to change blades putting there big impact on top of the spindle thats the last time they will EVER see me

brucec32
02-28-2003, 01:09 AM
1. If it's the bolt that holds the blade on, you should be able to pretty easily drill it out. Maybe the dealer is lazy and doesn't feel up to taking the deck off if he doesn't have a proper way to lift it high enough to get a big drill under there.

2. Your dealer could easily pop a spindle off a new mower sitting on the floor and use that part. Then replace it when the part arrives.

3. Your dealer should provide you a loaner if they can't get parts.

4. Husqvarna should do what it has to, even to the extent of pulling a part off a mower being built, if it has to, to earn your future business.

These kind of things are why I stick with the top brands and real dealers for service. No available part...sshhhheeee..sounds a lot like Craftsman to me.

When my Toyota Tundra O2 sensor went bad, I got the "no available parts" runaround for a month, too. Popped on the internet, there must have been a dozen places to order the same exact part and have it here the next day.

Inept dealers. Unfortunately, only a few are really good. Some are so bad I think of ways to even avoid going there becuase it ticks me off and gives me heartburn how slow, unknowledgeable (hey, show some pride in your job and learn it!) and careless they are. Molasses runs downhill faster than some parts guys can find a part. And until recently, none of them had heard of fedex and would insist I make the 45 minute drive over to pick up a $10 part. Doh! And I've seen French waiters who were friendlier than some guys working at these places. But I have also seen some good ones. Not coincidentally, they work at the biggest and most profitable dealer around.

Phishook
02-28-2003, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by KenH
Isnt this a bad design to hold the blade on?? I would think through bolts would be much more practical. (as my 'Cats and Scags) Can you imagine how tight the husky bolts must get if you hit something.:rolleyes:

I've got that type on my Bunton. They really don't get that tight or loosen, but I do agree that the other's with a through bolt are a better design. You'll never have a bolt get stuck in one of those.

I don't think you could drill it out, if it was in there that tight to break the bolt head off. Besides, an easy out or what ever was being used would just spin the spindle.

Try putting some Anti-seize or never-seize(the silver stuff) on those bolts before you put them back on. Works Great!

MattW
02-28-2003, 04:20 AM
Well seems to me as if they weren't the ones that stripped it, I have never seen a bolt strip from backing it out....Usually they strip from installing them, especially when your in a hurry, (wind it right in and fix it another day) But the beating on the blade on a installed stripped bolt will make it very difficult to get back out.


My suggestion to get it fix would be to bring it to a machine shop, they can put it on the lathe, center bore it just under the thread size and pluck out the remaining threadwith a little pick (it'll look like a little spring or heli-coil) run a tap through it, then your golden....I have a welder/machinst and he is awsome w/ stuff like that... Just a little info.....

I am not insinuating that you cranked the bolt in, Do you have any employee's? They do any service work for you on the mower? Maybe sharpen a blade?

Employee's (not all) have no concept of what little things turn into, they are either afraid to admit to fault or just plain scared or just wanna pass the buck! (your buck)

Good luck on getting the mower fixed, If you need a hand w/ a good machinest, send me an email, you can overnight it to me and I can get him to get on it right away if needed. Just putting the offer on the table. I am sure it won't take him a month to do it. (LOL) (not laughing at you, just your service dept,never heard such a thing)

Good luck,
Green Grass Irrigation & Lawn Care

1stclasslawns
02-28-2003, 07:14 AM
Hey IB
If all else fails!
Go get it and take it to a machine shop for a last resort, If they need to they cane make the parts from scratch!

Jim

barryd
02-28-2003, 07:27 AM
Promo,

The Exmark 24 hour guarantee does apply to all dealers. I am the sales manager of a Exmark dealership. I just bought a Exmark Lazer Z 52" and am starting my own lawn service (15 accounts, already). We also sell Scag, Husqvarna, Stihl, Echo and Walker. I wouldn't buy anything but an Exmark. They are a great mower, and have great support to the dealer. Maybe the guy that looked up the belt for you looked it up wrong.

SLS
02-28-2003, 09:13 AM
This thread was started back on 10-18-02.

I wonder if that Husky is fixed yet? :D

IBGreen
02-28-2003, 09:15 AM
SLS which mower actually cuts the best? Walker/Exmark?

IBGreen
02-28-2003, 09:16 AM
sorry SLS I meant barryd, and yes its fixed and on the way out.

The Rock
02-28-2003, 09:27 AM
My rep has only one bad thing to say about Husky. Thats the same thing you are going through. It took him 3 weeks to get a spindle. Nothing bad to say about the machine only the service. Thats why i've gone with Exmark. My 2 cents...

Swampbeast
02-28-2003, 10:06 AM
I have a friend that has a Husky, he swears that if he could go back and do it again, he would buy a SCAG or eXmark. He has the same problems, it took three and a half weeks for them to get a part. Fortuneately, his dealer was nice, and let him borrow a SCAG mower during that time.

:cool:

Gravely_Man
02-28-2003, 10:48 AM
So was this finally fixed and everything is ok now?


Gravely_Man

BB36
02-28-2003, 11:44 AM
The shop i deal with sells and services Toros and Hustlers.If for any reason my mowers are laid up for more then 48 hrs they will lend me a loaner mower(free) until its repaired. They were the only shop offering a loaner, now most shops in my area supply loaners.
Toro also has a 24 hr parts guarantee, i know because i used this service.
Gary

brucec32
02-28-2003, 12:18 PM
No offense BarryD, but I'm not sure I'd be pleased if my Exmark dealer's sales manager was moonlighting by competing directly with me and his other customers. Doesn't that seem like a conflict of interest there, at least potentially down the line? Whose mowers will be first in line for service? Who will get a better price break on the mowers? You, of course. Besides, I would think being a sales manager at a commercial dealership could absorb about as many hours as one wanted to put into it.
I'd hate to think my sales manager had his mind elsewhere while at work.

A local company here sold John Deeres, then opened up a lawn care company competing with their customers right in the same building! I couldnt' believe it. Btw, they also did the irrigation install on my Uncle's house, since he knows the guy. Leaks like a sieve! I could barely mow all year it stayed so wet. They claim it isn't leaking....BS! They had puddles standing in the afternoon in August! He's let it slide since he's on a well, not city water, and it doesn't cost him anything much.

It's a personal choice, but even if I wanted one of their products, I wouldn't buy from them. I just think it's bad form to use your dealer purchasing power (in their case, they OWNED the dealership) to get mowers cheap to better compete with your own customers.