PDA

View Full Version : Lets have an intelligent debate


Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 12:18 AM
I had to cut one of the few yards I have with a gate today. My 42" lawn tractor goes thru it with a little to spare. It's a chainlink walkway gate. Anyways as i was cutting, I was day dreaming about the new ZTR I am hoping to get. Then a good question crossed my mind that could apply to anyone.

Doesn't it make more sense to have a 42" or smaller ZTR to get those gated yards instead of a walkbehind?

Then I began to think of what was out there that might fit through that gate I just went through. Of course Encore's Z34 came to mind 1st because a 34 is just plain odd and sticks in your mind. Why not 36" or 38"? Then I thought of there Z42.

Then I thought of the Dixie Chopper 42" w/removeable trim side. The only other that came to mind was Husqvarna's 42".

Then I tought, I really wonder how much time I'd really save with just a 42" ZTR v/s my lawn tractor? Sure I'd save some turning and trimming. But would I really increase my ground speed any? I don't even run my lawn tractor flat out much. It just beats me around too much.

Let's all discuss my rantings! :blush: :confused:

Nebraska
10-18-2002, 12:30 AM
If what I think your refering to as a "lawn tractor" any intelligence in the debate is already absent.

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 12:35 AM
:confused: HUH???

Nebraska
10-18-2002, 12:41 AM
Sorry for the sarcasm.... What is a lawn tractor?

The bottom line comes down to the FACT that the best equipment will always improve your net profit margin via it's improved efficiencies.

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 12:58 AM
I don't doubt what you are saying for a minute. I'm just having random thoughts basically. I guess I'm also trying to see clear justification for replacing my lawn tractor with a small ZTR.

Fact is, I can't really see how spending 5 or 6 G on a small ZTR can really improve my profit margin much. I think it would take a long time to recover the cost of it for probably little time I would actually save. I just can't see myself boucing along really any faster. I'd save on turning and trimming.

Feel free to correct me with experience! I can take it!

The fact of the matter is, I only see 3 toros, 2 bobcats and 1 great dane out of all the LCO's around closeby, oh and one GD super surfer if that counts.

Most everyone still uses lawn tractors. A few miles south of here, that is no longer the case. I think for the most part they all suffer from fear of change and fear they won't beable to do the things they now do with ZTR's. This seems to me more and more all the time that it's not the case.

But there again, I hear people say wider and bigger is better for control. 34 or 42 inches is not wide at all in the ZTR market.

Nebraska
10-18-2002, 01:04 AM
Why not aggresively market your services more so that you pick up a good number of new accounts to justify that purchase.

I agree with you in respect to the fact that just because you have a beautiful, efficient, fast mower that the customers are NOT gowing to flock to you...

Kind of like the guys in our area that drop $4k on a new snow plow that sits in the driveway all winter long except for the 1 hour they spend clearing the 1 account for $65 when there are a ton of good used plows all over for a quarter that price.

PaulJ
10-18-2002, 01:10 AM
IMHO
You just can't beat Zero-Turn, even if i't only a gear drive walk behind. for example : my main mower is a Lesco gear drive WB 36 in with jungle wheels. I recently got a Huskee 18hp 46 in garden tractor and a blade and plow and cultivator ( these attatchments are what I got the tractor for ) I used it on my lawn and It took about 1/3 longer to mow than with my 36 walk behind. That's the productivity. also most garden tractors don't even come close to the durability of a Commercial mower. I am still amaized at some of the abuse I have put my WB through and Lesco isn't nessecarly the "best' of the commercial mowers.

to sum up my thoughts: you can't beat zero-turn for productivity and you can't beat commercial for durability.

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 01:32 AM
The jobs will be there next season. I've already been pushed at times to keep up with what I had this year and i've turned lots of work down. I only cut part time anyways.

I'm going to have to buy a ZTR to keep up if I want to take on any more. I was just thinking of rather or not to replace the LT too. It is a hydro atleast and I just can't see saving that much time.

I could maybe see saving quite a bit on flat smooth ground even with a smaller than 42" deck. But none of my accounts are flat and most are not smooth either.

Also, I'm afraid to buy a smaller frame ZTR because I'm afraid it won't stay on the hills like my LT does. I think this fear is the same fear that keeps most of the others around here on LT's.

Guido
10-18-2002, 01:41 AM
How many gated yards to you cut compared to open areas? Is it worth losing time on the easy access yards where you can fit a bigger ZTR on just for a few gated yards?

Thats the question you should ask yourself.


BTW....a ZTR the same size as your "lawn tractor" WILL save you lots of time.

greenman
10-18-2002, 01:48 AM
A person could always get a long ramps set up so you could drive right over the fence:D dont have to worry about gate:D have ramps on each side of the fence:eek: up and over

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 02:21 AM
Guido,

I don't have near as many gated as not right now. I will have more next year though unless I opt to turn them down again. My main ZTR will be bigger than 42". I know it will save me lots of time and make me more $$$ if it can hold any hill any way my LT can. I was planning to keep the LT for the gated stuff. That's when I began to think "hummm...should I replace it with a little ZTR too??? Or, should I just go for a small ZTR period and use it to earn a biggin' and still hve the small one for when it's needed.

Ahhhh...the classic business delima! Truthfully, I don't think I'll be ready to buy 2 ZTR's before spring because I'm a pay cash kinda guy. But, these things are still worth thinking through. I say this on a daily basis in my other career, but it still rigs true each time I say it......

"MOST PEOPLE DON'T PLAN TO FAIL, THEY JUST FAIL TO PLAN"

greenman,

As for your idea, it's the best I've heard since a gate stretcher! LOL!!! :laugh:

BigJim
10-18-2002, 03:19 AM
Why don't you get a Walker with a 36'' deck for gates and a wider deck for your bigger lawns,one ztr,2 decks,that was easy;)

Tony Harrell
10-18-2002, 05:15 AM
I cut my mowing time in half by stepping up from a 38" lawn tractor to a 32" Bob-Cat geardrive walkbehind. It's a quantum leap as far as I'm concerned. Turning takes a lot more time and effort than you think. Don't believe it? Go rent a walkbehind and you'll be a believer. I've got jungle wheels for open spaces. Oh yeah, you won't believe the difference in cut quality.

John Gamba
10-18-2002, 06:36 AM
Envy
Big jim Has The answer. If You Whant To Keep The gated Yard's.
I have found That i don't even need a walk behined anymore. I Started saying No to Lawns that I would need a walk. It's Been great. My guys carry a good 21" For the very small stuff. my trailers are smaller bagging is easyer the Lazers are faster. Some times It's Better to say no But it can be hard at first. the bird in the hand saying. But ive Opted For the money In Hand Saying.
GOOD LUCK.
John.

Brickman
10-18-2002, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by BigJim
Why don't you get a Walker with a 36'' deck for gates and a wider deck for your bigger lawns,one ztr,2 decks,that was easy;)


I agree, one power unit. Multiple decks. Bagging decks, mulching decks, side discharge decks. Works great.

Or get the Hustler gate master with a fold up deck. 48'' WB. Looked sweet at EXPO.

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 10:49 AM
I like the Walker idea, I've never looked at them. I'll go see if I can locate a dealer from there site. But, for some reason this machine sounds real expensive already. I guess I'll see.

As for the Gatemaster, it does look like a good idea. I wouldn't mind that at all if I could get say a sit/stand sulky for it.

You all with sulky experience give me your thoughts here. What's good, whats not, what kind of terrain you can/can't use the sulky ect.

As for the turning, it does take time. Especially on lawns I stripe. It also takes a lot of energy. I do think a zero turn anything would make life easier for me not doubt.

Thanks everyone!

KLMlawn
10-18-2002, 10:57 AM
Wright Standers come in both 36" and 42" decks, very manuverable (ZTM), are very compact, cut and stripe very well also. Just a thought ....

Envy Lawn Service
10-18-2002, 11:07 AM
I did call about those. The dealer told me about the Sentar. I think it gives the option to sit or stand. But I can't remember for sure and I don't remember what deck sizes were available either.

Thing was, he didn't have any in stock for me to check out. It's late in the season and I doubt he'll be getting any soon. I guess I owe him a call to see.

mklawnman
10-18-2002, 11:31 AM
If you want to keep these accounts who have gates look into buying a Great Dane Gateway, the thing is like 37inchs folded up but when set down can be upwards of 52inch cut, and yes its a hydro. And so you could get a velkie to go along with it instead of walking all these lawns.
Just a suggestion, a ZTR would be nice but if most of your accounts are like this keep the tractor until you make enough money to sell your tractor and buy a ZTR in the mean time look at the Gateway by GD.
Matt

John Gamba
10-18-2002, 11:37 AM
Envy
The stand On Mowers Are better Or faster Than a walk with sulky. they corner better and back Up better. but you might have a Hard time going under things. The walker mower With different deck's will cost you. at least 12 thousand or so. and Keep in Mined That it takes time to change deck'sAnd carry them around.

You talk about striping i'll send you a picture Of a Lawn with a Pro slide. If You go The way Of a sulky. you will like the striping the pro does. it will be later tonight.
John.

Swampbeast
10-18-2002, 12:49 PM
Get a ZTR, it doesnt matter what type you get, get one! Not only do they speed you up substantially, but they also are a heck of a lot more fun to use! And buy commercial, MUCH better.

TLS
10-18-2002, 01:46 PM
Envy,

I/We need more info on the lawns that you take care of...

1) How many lawns do you mow now (not next year, NOW)?

2) How many of them have gates?

3) What size are these gates?

4) What is the size of turf INSIDE these gates?

5) What is the average size of your lawns? 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1 or more acres?

6) What brand is this Lawn Tractor you keep talking about. We all talk about our equipment, and call it by name, you should too!


A 42" tractor will usually have a 40" track width. JUST about ANY ZTR will have a track width similarly sized to the cut width. If you mow hills with that tractor, any ZTR will handle them WAY better.

My suggestion...without knowing your answers to the above questions....

Buy a 32" belt drive WB. Used they are less than $800. This will get you in the smallest of gates and still be very productive while inside them. SCAG, Bunton, Exmark, Bob-Cat are names that come to mind here. Remember if its a 36" gate, a 36" mower will NOT go thru that gate!!!

Next, buy a 52" Lazer HP ZTR with the 23 Kawi. Heard that they were in the mid $6K range new. This will take care of those larger lawns and still be very productive in small tight areas. They are natrual hill huggers, and have a lot of options for goodies later.

Your set for like $7500 and change. Now sell that LAWN TRACTOR to Mrs Jones down the street and forget about it.

I'll assume you already have string trimmers, edgers, blowers, and a truck and trailer.

Hope this helps.

:)

baddboygeorge
10-18-2002, 02:03 PM
36 inch walk behind with velke will run circles around your lawn tractor ! your wasting time by turning that thing around .remeber time is $$$$$$ sell your lawn tractor an buy a walk behind either belt or hydro an either scag exmark or bunton all great products

Scotlawncare
10-18-2002, 04:47 PM
I agree with TLS. Any used or even new walkbehind will do better than a yard tractor. Yes you could spend the 5-6 grand on a 42" ztr mower but look at the size of the deck. its only 42" you can get a 36" walkbehind MUCH MUCH cheaper and still have about the same production rate as the 42" ztr in back yards. some back yards the walkbehind will have a higher production rate. I would NOt get any ztr mid deck mower that wasn't 52" or bigger. The trimming aspect of a smaller deck mower is just not there. the deck is too close to the same size as the wheel base thus making it harder to trim around trees and flower beds. To me a 48" ztr is still too small of a deck for trimming. I run a 48" Exmark Metro which is belt driven and it does great for trimming around obstacles. A 36" to me is too small to cut close to things but sometimes you have to have one for gated back yards unless you run a push mower.


IMHO stay away from the 42" ztr's and go find a used 36" exmark or toro belt drive and get a 52" exmark lazer for your primary mower. you may spend a little more for these two mowers vs a 42" ztr but you will have an extra mower that can be a backup if one goes down.

I'm part time too and hate having my only mower in the shop for repairs or having a part on order that has halted my cutting. two mowers ALWAYS helps.

Sorry for the book but you wanted a discussion.

Scot

PaulJ
10-18-2002, 11:51 PM
Nowbody else has said it so I will.

This sounds like a good situation for "Flex-Deck"
Get the mower that will fit most of your gated yards
like the little encor ZTR or a 36 walker or stander or a 32 or 36 in walkbefing wiht a sulky the add a Flex-Deck to add 18 inches to that cutting width.
like two mowers in one

JMHO

KLMlawn
10-18-2002, 11:57 PM
Yoooo Paul, get with the program.... I think Flex -Deck has its place and might be a good product but I don't think it fits on a homeowner type tractor....

PaulJ
10-19-2002, 12:05 AM
:confused:
Where in my post did I say anything about a homeowner type tractor???

BTW I think the first thing that Brad put the Flex-Deck on was John Deer "garden Tractors".

Also try reading my ealier post in this thread :


"IMHO
You just can't beat Zero-Turn, even if i't only a gear drive walk behind. for example : my main mower is a Lesco gear drive WB 36 in with jungle wheels. I recently got a Huskee 18hp 46 in garden tractor and a blade and plow and cultivator ( these attatchments are what I got the tractor for ) I used it on my lawn and It took about 1/3 longer to mow than with my 36 walk behind. That's the productivity. also most garden tractors don't even come close to the durability of a Commercial mower. I am still amaized at some of the abuse I have put my WB through and Lesco isn't nessecarly the "best' of the commercial mowers.

to sum up my thoughts: you can't beat zero-turn for productivity and you can't beat commercial for durability."


just my 2cents worth.

Flex-Deck
10-19-2002, 02:00 AM
There is only a few reasons, that I have had to email Chuck (The Administrator and Owner of this forum) as to the fact that I am dropping my sponsor forum and banner -

1. The people on this forum wanted to see a flex-deck on a walk-behind so they could get thru the gated back yards and trim and contour mow - so I mounted one on a JD belt drive and posted picture or two - a lot of pictures on my sponsor forum - but nobody seemed to take a look at the sponsor forum, - they wanted one on an eXmark or other brand hydro type ie hustler - gravely etc. and more brands - there are a lot of good mowers out there - please demo them and find the one that works for you.

2. So I went up to Muscatine Iowa and bought a brand new Viking hydro 36" mower which with the Flex-Deck will get thru gates, then contour mow AND trim gated back yards while mowing 54" of swath width. I spent about $4500 after delivery and tax, and a lot of you are going to say """"Whoa - you spent too much, but the problem is I WANT service and am willing to let the dealer make a little money - OTHERWISE he will be out of business soon" This is a serious comment as to all those posts that discuss "Man - what can you buy that mower for - lets Low Ball the dealer, Then the same person says "MY TIME IS WORTH $50 per HR. and what the hell do we do about LOW BALLERS"

3. Guess what - I got hammered when I posted a bunch of pics of this mower because it was slowing down the computers of a couple of 15 yr olds, namely bushhogboy and one other, and switchless asked the same questions over and over and over..

If you people on this forum have an interest in increasing your efficiency of your mowers, and increasing you bottom line, and are willing to take an honest look at something that can do that - namely the Flex-Deck - just call 877-353-9335 or visit www.flex-deck.com





3. http://52X

KLMlawn
10-19-2002, 02:28 AM
Brad, nothing personal, I actually think your product has a great purpose and inventive idea behind it ... I even e-mailed you regarding the concept of configuring one to fit a Wright Stander, but I have not made a decision on that yet ... But honestly, in my market, you would be laughed off the lawn if you pulled up with a JD or any other type of tractor ... it just isn't what is used in this area by professionals.
As to your pics taking time, that shouldn't be your problem, it should be the peoblem of the person downloading it and the fact that they wont spend the extra dollars for a "REAL" internet connection ....

Flex-Deck
10-19-2002, 02:35 AM
Thanks KLMlawn - I am not going to argue tractor ZTR - they are both machines that have thier place, but with the Flex-Deck they both perform better, save time, and make the operator more money. I am guilty of responding out of frustration that it seems nobody on this forum wants to commit to a time saving idea, and I am forced to go with avenues of a advertising that have people that do.. Again, Thankyou for your support. Brad

Clewsew
10-19-2002, 12:54 PM
Correct me if I am wrong Flex-Deck, but doesn't one of the people that you mentioned post his own pics, so what if you want to make your product known. People just like to complain. I don't have Broadband available where I am except for Satellite(large equipment costs) and your pics don't bother me. I am not in a race. Good luck Flex-Deck...hope you are succesful where you are going, and get the business that you are looking for!

Now for the original subject:

I picked up a Toro WB Geardrive 32". Just for an example of the time savings to be had. My father-in-law lives on 1 1/3 acre, and has a JD 38" LT it takes him about 4 hours just to mow his lawn with it, but is unable to mow some parts of the ditch in his front yard and with out weedeating. I took my WB over (with jungle wheels sully) and weed eated and it was about 2 hours worth. I think that I could possible do it a little faster after a time or two. My point is that it took about half of the time with a smaller deck and the yard looks better as well(after the Toro). You can not beat the cut or the functionality of a Zero turn commerical mower. It amazes my father-in-law that you can do more with less(deck size), but you can! Even if you get a WB gear drive you will be worlds ahead.

I got my Toro used with very little use from a home owner for $1000 with bagger, mulch attachment, and sulky. I couldn't pass it up. Now for my next pitch for you. If you have a Gravely dealer close to you, go look at the Pro-G models. A 36" WB with at 13HP Kawi engine with the new Pro-grip(about a $200 upgrade but well worth it - it is the same principle as the Toro T-bar) was priced to me for $2350. Add a sulky and a bagger or mulch kit and the price will go up $300-$400 depending on the type/brand of sulky you get. For just mowing, you will blow the wheels off the Murray, Weedeater, or any other brand of resedential LT that you can buy. And like mentioned before, the durability of the commericial equipment is much greater. The gravely has a 7 guage deck....that is probably between 1/8 and 3/16 inch thick. It is the heaviest that I have seen so far. I was going to buy a Gravely, but the Toro was such a good deal. And don't worry the 13Hp is plenty of power for a 36" deck, unless you plan on cutting off 3" worth of growth with the mulching kit installed, but what could do that anyway.

Good luck and let us know what you go with.

Clewsew

Guido
10-19-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by TLS
Buy a 32" belt drive WB. Used they are less than $800. This will get you in the smallest of gates and still be very productive while inside them. SCAG, Bunton, Exmark, Bob-Cat are names that come to mind here. Remember if its a 36" gate, a 36" mower will NOT go thru that gate!!!

Next, buy a 52" Lazer HP ZTR with the 23 Kawi. Heard that they were in the mid $6K range new. This will take care of those larger lawns and still be very productive in small tight areas. They are natrual hill huggers, and have a lot of options for goodies later.

Your set for like $7500 and change. Now sell that LAWN TRACTOR to Mrs Jones down the street and forget about it.





This suggestion gets my vote Envy!

Envy Lawn Service
10-19-2002, 10:44 PM
Thank you to everyone who had something constructive to say. I have heard a lot of good ideas here. I guess I have a lot more shopping to do!

I would really like to thank Scot for bringing a point to light about smaller ZTR's. I checked this out and found that most 48" cuts hav like a 47" track width. No trim left. I did notice this when looking at a Gravely 250Z, the 260Z had plenty of trim edge.

I will be buying something other than a lawn tractor for sure.

Now, no one has mentioned a sit/stand sulky for a WB. Are these just not popular or not functional? I have diabetes and I cannot stand "all" day.

Maybe a ZTR is the right thing to do and just drop gated yards or install a big gate somewhere "just for me" :D

Brickman
10-20-2002, 05:04 AM
Get the bigger Z. Then tell your customers that due to health reasons you had to get off your feet, and they need to put in a bigger gate. Or find a new lawn man.

If you are feeling extra nice when you talk to them you might offer to help with the cost of the gate.

Tony Harrell
10-20-2002, 07:07 AM
I use Jungle Wheels on my 32" Bob-Cat. They are really only used on wide open areas because I find it faster to stripe the smaller areas without them. I have a large, flat lot beside my house and I can run it in 5th gear. I don't use the JW on hillsides, I just step off when I need to. Btw-I haven't used my trim mower since getting it (the 32") and stopped loading it on the trailer also. I thought about getting a larger walk behind later but, I think I'll keep my 32" and get a 60" Z next year. Can't wait for the day I can get a Walker and just pick and choose the properties (seriously).

Scotlawncare
10-21-2002, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
I would really like to thank Scot for bringing a point to light about smaller ZTR's. I checked this out and found that most 48" cuts hav like a 47" track width. No trim left. I did notice this when looking at a Gravely 250Z, the 260Z had plenty of trim edge.

No problem Envy. I have played with a 48" Exmark Lazer and came to this very conclusion about the trimming.

Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
Now, no one has mentioned a sit/stand sulky for a WB. Are these just not popular or not functional? I have diabetes and I cannot stand "all" day.

The sit on type sulky's to me are longer so they will be harder to get into tight places. I Know how you feel about having to stand alot. it does get to you but the sit on type sulky i would think twice on. If your pocket book will alow it get the ZTR for you main cutting and then use a 36" belt drive mower with a set of jungle wheels or something like that for the back yards. You will not be on the sulky very long so standing will not be that big of an issue. Like I suggested above, get a 52" (EXMARK ) Lazer HP and find a used 36" (EXMARK ) belt drive like a Metro with a sulky for back yards with gates. Plus two mowers makes it easier to handle down time when one of them is in the shop for Unexpected repairs.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

Scot

Flex-Deck
10-21-2002, 10:04 PM
Envy - Get a 36" eXmark WB Viking Hydro and do everything including getting thru gates - You will have a 54" cut -See our sponsor forum for a lot of pics as to what it will do - We also can fit a lot of brands, but you would have to bring it to SE. Iowa-

Thanks, Bradhttp://36X

Envy Lawn Service
10-22-2002, 01:31 AM
Well, I did a little on-line shopping as far as walk behinds go. I'll list the models that interest me. Tell me what you think.

Husqvarna WHF 4215 ETS
Exmark Turf Tracer HP 3615 ECS

Other than those I don't see much else I like. As for the Great Dane Gateway, it looks to be a good way to ge in a small gate with a big cut. But with all the left side deck off set, it doesn't look like it would handle all that well. It also looks like it would be a pain to adjust the cutting height.

Hustler's Gatemaster is too new to find much info on.

Truthfully I really don't know where I stand as far as the walk behinds go. I might just do with the gated yards as I mentioned above.

As for the Exmark Lazers, I demoed one today. I typed up a big new thread on it. But something happened and it didn't post. I'll try to put it up again later.

Phishook
10-22-2002, 02:53 AM
Be sweet if you could run a flex- deck on the discharge side with a mulching kit. be a 72" cut right?

ya then get exmarks ridding attachment.

that'd nock them gated yards out in no time.

Envy Lawn Service
10-22-2002, 09:10 AM
Brad,

What does the flex deck cost and what all does it fit???

KLMlawn
10-22-2002, 09:23 AM
Envy, of the two choices you have come down to I would go with the Exmark TT HP 3615 ECS ... which is basically the same machine as in Brad's last post, except for the fact that the Viking is a fixed deck and the Turf Tracer is floating.

Swampbeast
10-22-2002, 09:38 AM
Flex-deck, your deck is interesting to me. I have several yard where my 36 will barely squeak into the gate, but its to small to do the yard effeciantly, so that would make it a 54 inch cut? That would be pretty awesome! And what does everyone mean by "trimming" with it? :confused:

bubble boy
10-22-2002, 09:47 AM
because of how the deck is configured you can cut, say, between two boulders where your 36 inch deck won't fit. look up some flex deck threads for pics.

also the flex deck is offset- it will cut closer to fences without bashing your handlebars or hands, and can cut along a long flower bed closer to the edge without dropping your WB wheels in.


less trimming:)

lawnworker
10-22-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by greenman
A person could always get a long ramps set up so you could drive right over the fence:D dont have to worry about gate:D have ramps on each side of the fence:eek: up and over

Sorta like evil kenevil there, a little speed and that ztr would be airborne:)

Swampbeast
10-22-2002, 10:48 AM
Ha ha! Yeah, thats it! Dontcha know the customers would love that, at least the kids would.
Since my partner and I are accomplished carpenters, we simply tell the customers that for the cost of the materials plus $20 (it takes maybe half and hour) we will put a larger gate in, so we can get our bigger mowers in there. THey are almost always wiling for us to do so. :cool:

MJStrain
10-22-2002, 04:04 PM
I wouldn't even consider buying a mower just to do back yards. The few yards that are large enough to justify riding I have a fence contractor come in and widen the gate with the owners consent. They charge me $150.00 and it pays for itself in two or three mows. Problem solved.:cool:

Envy Lawn Service
10-22-2002, 10:53 PM
Michael,

Those were my thoughts earlier in the post as well. I will even do it for them.

leadarrows
10-23-2002, 12:04 AM
The only reason I havenít jumped on the Flex Deck bandwagon is low cash flow. In the spring I would love to get one for my Dixie. A 32-inch walk behind with a flex deck sounds real good to me as well. Some of us may like your products and info more than you think. Some things just take time. It would be real easy for me to get in over my head credit wise if I let my self. I want the best toysÖ. I mean Tools.
I mentioned this site today where I bought my Dixie and they not even on line. They have never heard of your Flex- Deck either. I told them about both but mostly got a blank stare. Flex-Deck; How are you going about reaching dealer who arenít on line and donít attend the trade shows? I would be glad to get my dealers address to you if you would like. IM sure you have info you could mail them. I think I may look around before my next purchases. Theirs at least two other dealers locally that might be more up to speed. There OK service wise but I faxed them the service bulletin about the cable braking on my Dixie, that I heard about on this site, and they didnít seem to interested in that ether. My humble opinions aside I think this sites great and we newbies owe you wise ones our thanks. Oh by the way I not only donít mind down loading the pictures I learn a lot from them so keep them coming.

My $2.95
Hey whereís 2 cents going to get you these days?
:D

AGG Lawn Maintenance
10-23-2002, 05:40 PM
I'll tell you this......... As a start up mower having limitted funds your mower is fine. Been there done that. But as fars as production, even a 36" walkbeind will eat your rider up. By the time you turn around and try to match your lines up I'm on my 2nd lawn. Riders with steering have been out dated for us lawn companys for years. In our business you need ZTR's or walkbehinds to keep up with the lawns. Back in the day we used 21" walkbeinds and 42" riders. I could never imagine doing 20 lawns a day with those mowers now. Those mowers aren't built for that. And how about if you get 2 or 3 days of rain. By no means am I trying to pick on you. Its the same thing with doing clean ups would you rather rake whole yards or blow them. If you rake it might take you all day to do a clean up. But if you blow them you might do 6 or more in a day. You get my point. Good luck. Travis

Flex-Deck
10-23-2002, 06:27 PM
leadarrows - Your Dixie Chopper dealer should know about the Flex-Deck - Dixie has an exclusive with me - give me the name of your dealer, and I will personally talk to him and dixie as to what the lack of communication may be - It is a very new item, and not all the dealers may be informed yet, but they will in the future we hope.

Thanks, Bradhttp://Dixie

Fareway Lawncare
02-26-2005, 07:39 PM
The Flex Deck Will Likely be Standard Issue on all Mowers by 2010.

Doesn't the Guy in that Pic know that Smoking on the Job is Just Plain Silly ?

Swany Mowing
12-08-2005, 06:19 PM
I would say that replacing your lawn tractor with a ztr is the best move you can make.

That flex deck is sure a neat device.

lawnmaniac883
12-08-2005, 07:06 PM
Who brought this thread back? It is ten months old lol.

impactlandscaping
12-08-2005, 07:22 PM
More like 2 years and ten months.


Envy-I think you must be doing it right, because I was reading your other thread yesterday, and it seems you have come a long way and are still heading in the right direction.:waving:

Swany Mowing
12-08-2005, 09:18 PM
sorry about bumping an old thread guys....I was reading some of the older threads. There's tones of info here.

Anyway this guy graduated from a lawn tractor to a ztr and probably tripled his production.

I still remember my first year, 12 years ago, using a lawn tractor. That lasted exactly one season.

chopsticks33
12-08-2005, 10:21 PM
for small lawns is the difference really that great?

Swany Mowing
12-09-2005, 09:19 AM
I would say on smaller lawns the difference is even greater because of the quick turning and maneuverability of the Zero turns.

If this guy traded in his lawn tractor last year he's probably moving at least twice as fast now.

Remsen1
12-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Sorry for the sarcasm.... What is a lawn tractor?

The bottom line comes down to the FACT that the best equipment will always improve your net profit margin via it's improved efficiencies.

That is VERY debateable. This is NOT always true.

Here is a hypothetical example... What if the most efficient piece of equipment was also ten times more expensive than the next best piece of equipment?

marko
12-09-2005, 01:38 PM
Sorry for the sarcasm.... What is a lawn tractor?

The bottom line comes down to the FACT that the best equipment will always improve your net profit margin via it's improved efficiencies.

Not true. If you are mowing 20 a week, why spend the money on a "tractor"?

daveintoledo
12-09-2005, 02:42 PM
i bought a toro z this year, but i still use my lawn tractor on 9 accounts, everone of them picked me over there old mower because he damaged everyone of there lawns, volcanos around every tree where they circled the tree while wet and ruined the yards,

for these customers and others who are afraid of the bigger machines, i use my lawn tractor, takes 5 or 10 extra minutes, then i use the z on my larger properties, or the ones who dont care what i use

at a funeral last week a lady asked me, your the one who took all of so and sos accounts, are you cheaper or what are you doing different... i told them i just talk to the old ladies, when in reality he lost everone of those accounts due do lawn damage from operator error of a big z...

Swany Mowing
12-09-2005, 07:18 PM
I can tell you for certainty that I would not be where I am today using lawn tractors. I switched 12 years ago. They take too dang long to turn and maneuver poorly in tight areas, not to mention the poor cut.

I bet the guy who started this thread and switched over from a lawn tractor to a ztr last year would agree that he's more productive now.