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dgw
06-27-2011, 08:06 PM
i thought about using t-zone in my spot spray back packs this year

maybe mix it with drive or something that kills CG

i usually use Q4 in backpacks and trimec in the tank

but my biggest issue is oxalis and violet, and neither one of those seem to do the trick on those

so i picked up a gallon of t zone to try, and mixed it in a stihl sg 20 BP sprayer, i mixed 5 ounces in 4 gallons (light rate), i did not use a sticker


i have a little nutsedge in my own yard so i sprayed that


my neighbor has violet and oxalis, so i sprayed that as well

it was about 75 degrees and sunny

ill post results for anyone interested

Hineline
06-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Thanks for doing this!

RigglePLC
06-27-2011, 08:34 PM
I had good results killing oxalis with T-Zone in tests I did about June 9, 2011. Worked better with surfactant. Not much effect on violets, although adding surfactant helped.

Check the label--Drive is very effective for violets. (And crabgrass). Only problem is that Drive sometimes settled out in the tank when I used it.

Let us know what happens under your conditions. Your oxalis will be a little more mature in Ohio, rightDGW ?

Under my conditions, my hand sprayers cover about 2000 sqft per gallon--so naturally I mix it stronger. Spray some water on cement to find what square feet your backpack covers.

dgw
06-27-2011, 08:43 PM
I had good results killing oxalis with T-Zone in tests I did about June 9, 2011. Worked better with surfactant. Not much effect on violets, although adding surfactant helped.

Check the label--Drive is very effective for violets. (And crabgrass). Only problem is that Drive sometimes settled out in the tank when I used it.

Let us know what happens under your conditions. Your oxalis will be a little more mature in Ohio, rightDGW ?

Under my conditions, my hand sprayers cover about 2000 sqft per gallon--so naturally I mix it stronger. Spray some water on cement to find what square feet your backpack covers.

you are correct some are more mature, but the trimec did knock back a bit of them

i dont blanket spray with my BPs(unless something breaks ) , so i havent calibrated , i just spot spray

i used the low rate , because tomorrow i plan on mixing with the high rate and a sticker to spray some other sites to compare results

gebby
06-27-2011, 10:06 PM
Yes, Please let us know how you make out.

dgw
06-28-2011, 07:28 PM
day one-oxalis is crispy brown and stems are twisted, violet has slight browning , and nutsedge is wilted

TJLANDS
06-28-2011, 09:27 PM
day one-oxalis is crispy brown and stems are twisted, violet has slight browning , and nutsedge is wilted

really 24hrs?
hows the grass look?

dgw
06-29-2011, 06:15 AM
really 24hrs?
hows the grass look?

no damage to surrounding grass

TLS
06-29-2011, 06:51 AM
I found Surge to be very effective and less expensive. How is T-Zone with 90 degree temps?

dgw
06-29-2011, 08:23 PM
I found Surge to be very effective and less expensive. How is T-Zone with 90 degree temps?

on oxalis?


havent tried in hot temps yet

TLS
06-29-2011, 10:56 PM
Yes, decent results with them. Heavy areas I go over twice (Permagreen). In any event, way better results then say 3way.

This was in close to 90 degree temps.

I got mixed results with T-Zone, but the cost was the turnoff for me.
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dgw
06-30-2011, 05:42 AM
Yes, decent results with them. Heavy areas I go over twice (Permagreen). In any event, way better results then say 3way.

This was in close to 90 degree temps.

I got mixed results with T-Zone, but the cost was the turnoff for me.
Posted via Mobile Device

thanks for the info , i will check it out



oxalis is really the only problem i have in lawns right now

TLS
06-30-2011, 09:00 AM
Spreader sticker is your friend with these tougher weeds.
Posted via Mobile Device

RigglePLC
06-30-2011, 09:45 AM
I found that spreader sticker was costly in the skid sprayer. But cheap in hand sprayers and back packs, as a spot spray. Labor and time consumed is the main cost in spot spraying.
Only problem is: the silicone surfactants are difficult to measure in spot sprayers because you don't need much. For the silicone surfactants you use about one-tenth of one percent. Say around a tenth of an ounce per gallon in a hand sprayer. Ten cents.
Which is good because silicone surfactants cost about a dollar an ounce.

How do you measure small quantities?

RigglePLC
06-30-2011, 11:15 AM
I used T-Zone on a dandelion and it worked very well at about 7 days later. I also used T-Zone on new grass seed planted in pots when the new grass was about an inch high. So far only slight injury to new grass. Stay tuned.

dgw
06-30-2011, 07:06 PM
i do have a couple gallons of lesco spreader/ sticker


i wanted to try it out without it first

i still havent tried it with the sticker, im hoping i get a chance tommorrow

dgw
07-02-2011, 06:43 PM
today i mixed 1.5 ounces per gallon with lesco sticker

it is about 90 degrees

i sprayed some oxalis in an irrelevant part of my yard

i want to take pics but my phone screen is broken, and when i try to load regular camera pics on this site it always says they are to big

i have no clue how to get them on here

CHARLES CUE
07-02-2011, 08:30 PM
when i try to load regular camera pics on this site it always says they are to big

i have no clue how to get them on here

All you have to do is get the photo on your computer

right click on it and click go to edit

than go up to the top and go to image and than to resize make it small enough so you can see the hole photo on your computer screen

some times you have to resize it 2 times

Charles Cue

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-02-2011, 10:21 PM
I read on the label only apply TZone up to eighty five degrees F. Hotter than that, the ester Triclopyr will volatize.

grassman177
07-04-2011, 01:42 PM
i have had issues despite spreader/.sticker with surge killing oxalis for the most part. kinda pisses me off, but it is only when dry, after a rain the kill is great, but in a slight drought or more forget it, it burns the top and then regrows. i have not found a weed control that works super in slight drought conditions yet.

any thoughts?>

dgw
07-04-2011, 01:44 PM
i have had issues despite spreader/.sticker with surge killing oxalis for the most part. kinda pisses me off, but it is only when dry, after a rain the kill is great, but in a slight drought or more forget it, it burns the top and then regrows. i have not found a weed control that works super in slight drought conditions yet.

any thoughts?>

with the t-zone the tops are brown and the stems are curled and turning dark red

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 03:41 PM
i have had issues despite spreader/.sticker with surge killing oxalis for the most part. kinda pisses me off, but it is only when dry, after a rain the kill is great, but in a slight drought or more forget it, it burns the top and then regrows. i have not found a weed control that works super in slight drought conditions yet.

any thoughts?>

On what kind of grass? Cool season or bermuda? On bermuda, metsulfuron is a very good control for oxalis. It seems as though the product hangs around until there is water. Based on the AIs in Surge, I would expect mostly a top kill of oxalis. If I want a root kill of oxalis, that usually is provided by high rate dicamba, triclopyr or metsulfuron. If the turf is tolerant, T Zone would be another option because it has a high rate of triclopyr ester.

TLS
07-04-2011, 03:45 PM
greendoctor,

I think by looking at location:__________,___ that for the most part, we are all talking about cool season grass. But your info is good to know!

The drought issue is very important. Most plants slow down their metabolism in stressful conditions. To a point, even crabgrass!

Great info guys!

dgw
07-04-2011, 03:55 PM
http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/T-Zone-SL.pdf


for anyone interested

dgw
07-04-2011, 03:58 PM
greendoctor,

I think by looking at location:__________,___ that for the most part, we are all talking about cool season grass. But your info is good to know!

The drought issue is very important. Most plants slow down their metabolism in stressful conditions. To a point, even crabgrass!

Great info guys!

yea , even the label recommends a good watering 24 hours before and after app


but we all know what the chances of that are in most cases

TLS
07-04-2011, 04:01 PM
Don't forget no mowing 3 days prior, and 3 days after!!! lol

dgw
07-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Don't forget no mowing 3 days prior, and 3 days after!!! lol

i leave it in large lettering with the invoice , thats as far as i can go:hammerhead:

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 04:03 PM
greendoctor,

I think by looking at location:__________,___ that for the most part, we are all talking about cool season grass. But your info is good to know!

The drought issue is very important. Most plants slow down their metabolism in stressful conditions. To a point, even crabgrass!

Great info guys!

In cool season lawns, my choice would be straight Turflon Ester or the premix T Zone. Of course, the time to catch this is in spring. If we are talking about persistent infestations of oxalis, it has always been my policy to broadcast and tank mix Gallery into whatever I am using as the postemergent treatment for it. I am well aware that we are talking about some expensive herbicides. However, clients are aware that my programs priced to include the premium products that do the job and control the weeds that the other service providers have not controlled.

dgw
07-04-2011, 04:05 PM
In cool season lawns, my choice would be straight Turflon Ester or the premix T Zone. Of course, the time to catch this is in spring. If we are talking about persistent infestations of oxalis, it has always been my policy to broadcast and tank mix Gallery into whatever I am using as the postemergent treatment for it. I am well aware that we are talking about some expensive herbicides. However, clients are aware that my programs priced to include the premium products that do the job and control the weeds that the other service providers have not controlled.

greendoctor , have you heard of an app of dimension in the fall and then the normal one in the spring helping severe cases of oxalis

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 04:13 PM
No. I do not depend on the grassy weed preemergents for broadleaf weed control. Having said that, there was a zoysia lawn on an estate that always had a problem with crabgrass and broadleaf weeds taking over in the period between December and March. I mixed Dimension and Gallery in the fertilizer application in November. It has been cold, cloudy, windy and raining hard from December till now. Perfect weather for weeds to take over, impossible weather for me to spray in. I saw the lawn in early June. No weeds. I used 1 lb Gallery DF and 10 oz Dimension 40 WP per acre.

dgw
07-04-2011, 04:24 PM
No. I do not depend on the grassy weed preemergents for broadleaf weed control. Having said that, there was a zoysia lawn on an estate that always had a problem with crabgrass and broadleaf weeds taking over in the period between December and March. I mixed Dimension and Gallery in the fertilizer application in November. It has been cold, cloudy, windy and raining hard from December till now. Perfect weather for weeds to take over, impossible weather for me to spray in. I saw the lawn in early June. No weeds. I used 1 lb Gallery DF and 10 oz Dimension 40 WP per acre.

interesting



i believe oxalis and spurge are on the dimension label , broadleaf wise



i have about 20 bags of 13-00 dimension left over because i pre ordered and ended up not getting a large account i was banking on


i think i may try using it up in the fall on the lawns with the biggest issues

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 04:29 PM
Those weeds sure are on the label. I asked my Dow rep about this, his suggestion was to use Dimension for grassy weeds and Gallery for broadleaves. However, I am in a different situation. I normally price based on 12 months of service. If an application of something does not work, I have to take care of it no extra charge, there is also a very high risk of me losing the account. There are no other spray companies around to take my place, however when friends tell friends who tell friends....................

dgw
07-04-2011, 04:33 PM
Those weeds sure are on the label. I asked my Dow rep about this, his suggestion was to use Dimension for grassy weeds and Gallery for broadleaves. However, I am in a different situation. I normally price based on 12 months of service. If an application of something does not work, I have to take care of it no extra charge, there is also a very high risk of me losing the account. There are no other spray companies around to take my place, however when friends tell friends who tell friends....................

i havent used gallery

unfortunately most of my accounts are 4-5 step basic weed and feeds (dimension in spring, 30-04 and three way the rest of the way)

not saying i dont have some nice lawns, but i would like to get deeper into like you and really get every last weed

i only have a few that get the all out package

1.dimension
2.fert w/merit , blanket spray with spectator and herbicide
plus automatically treating and billing for problem weeds, diseases and insects

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Different market and different expectations. My prototypical client is a widow in the suburbs whose former husband was a slave to the lawn. Not one weed anywhere. The typical property is also worth 3/4 million or more. The other case is the estate worth millions, the "landscapers" and yard boys have already had a crack at it, the homeowner is not looking for fast, cheap and half azzed. The way I keep these clients is to get every last weed.

dgw
07-04-2011, 04:51 PM
Different market and different expectations. My prototypical client is a widow in the suburbs whose former husband was a slave to the lawn. Not one weed anywhere. The typical property is also worth 3/4 million or more. The other case is the estate worth millions, the "landscapers" and yard boys have already had a crack at it, the homeowner is not looking for fast, cheap and half azzed. The way I keep these clients is to get every last weed.

everything around me is blue collar 40-50k income households, so they want a decent lawn at a decent price


but i am working hard at sticking my foot in the higher class suburbs a little further out ,the only guys really out there are TG, and they do not kill oxalis or violet and honestly their CG control i think is subpar




and i have a handful of free lawns i do strictly for experimentation and testing out different products , along with trying to pull some higher dollar programs

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 05:08 PM
How does a company with a reputation for bad work get its foot into that kind of neighborhood? What they do would not fly here no matter how cheap or expensive. In Hawaii, the normal thing for homeowners to do is to hand weed their lawn constantly. No weeds. If I come around and tell them that there will be no more hand weeding needed, I had better produce or else. On the other hand, believe it or not, I have had clients from out of state. My problem with them has been that they expect me to spray in the wind and the rain like TG did back home. Not happening. The DOA here would put me out of business for that. I believe in producing premium results and not breaking laws or disrespecting the environment. That has carried me far. Even for people who are naturally leery about chemicals. Many of the locals are afraid of chemicals. They remember when the sugar plantations used to aerial spray 2.4-D and worse. I control the weeds without burning up their lawn like the uneducated yard boy used to or killing every tree, shrub and flower down wind of the lawn.

I started my own business back in 2007, Prior to that, I was the spray man/irrigation tech for a landscaper. When I left, a number of that company's clients followed me. I also put my name out with the local nurseries and sod farms because when there is a problem in the lawn or landscape the frequently given advice is to ask the sod farm or nursery. I also network with landscape/lawn maintenance operations that do not spray. Interestingly enough, the bigger companies that do spray, sometimes tap into me for assistance with problems.

dgw
07-04-2011, 05:12 PM
i imagine TG gets in there strictly with their name


most customers are probably not aware of other options


plus, if you have seen some of their prices lately.......


but i am proud, i have 6 accounts this year that switched to me from TG



and it is amazing the conditions i have seen them working in around here

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 05:16 PM
You know, even widows are often on a tight budget. They are warned that I am expensive for someone that does not also cut grass, trim trees and haul trash like a yard boy does. Producing results is the bottom line. I normally have to tell people like this to keep me on the down low. Don't want more work than I can handle. So far, the herbicides have not caused me to grow extra hands.

TLS
07-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Imagine where TG/CL would be today if they started out with the name Tru-Green!!

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 05:23 PM
i imagine TG gets in there strictly with their name


most customers are probably not aware of other options


plus, if you have seen some of their prices lately.......


but i am proud, i have 6 accounts this year that switched to me from TG



and it is amazing the conditions i have seen them working in around here

Good on you!

My DOA has told me of instances where they have driven by and witnessed someone spraying in the wind. That is cause for a full audit on the spot. Which takes about a few hours and in that case, there is cause to assess a big fine. Label violation. The DOA does not make up their own rules, they simply hold you to everything printed on the bottle. Spraying under conditions that favor drift or off target movement...............label violation.

grassman177
07-04-2011, 07:57 PM
On what kind of grass? Cool season or bermuda? On bermuda, metsulfuron is a very good control for oxalis. It seems as though the product hangs around until there is water. Based on the AIs in Surge, I would expect mostly a top kill of oxalis. If I want a root kill of oxalis, that usually is provided by high rate dicamba, triclopyr or metsulfuron. If the turf is tolerant, T Zone would be another option because it has a high rate of triclopyr ester.

fescue, blue and mixes of the two. i never have issues untill it is a dry period. i am too long ago to remember if triclopyr has any truf damage in those conditions?

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 08:01 PM
Cool season turf in hot, dry conditions. I would advise not applying anything. Especially if they are going through heat dormancy. Triclopyr is safer in cool weather. Even I stop spraying if it is over 90 and excessively humid. Otherwise I will have fried grass and vapor damaged trees and shrubs to deal with.

grassman177
07-04-2011, 08:03 PM
for the most part, we dont have bad infestations of any weeds, but the ones there are can be hard to get a good kill in dry conditions. again, it really is about proper spraying conditons that are rarely there. i do try to take advantage of it though when possible.

so, what could be better on oxalis and sedges during dry other than surge at max rate and a good surfactant?

greendoctor
07-04-2011, 08:05 PM
Straight Dicamba for the oxalis. Sedgehammer for the sedges. Those are the two products I have not had any problems with in hot, dry weather.

dgw
07-14-2011, 05:54 AM
update, all oxalis sprayed is completely gone!

the violet is still there , but hurting pretty bad

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-14-2011, 11:22 AM
I sprayed a few lawns with oxalis/woodsorrel with straight Trimec Classic last Friday. It was mid eighties and fairly humid. Checked some of those lawns last night, and surprisingly the TC was knocking the oxalis down. I would say probably 50-75% kill. Not bad for something that is not supposed to put a kill on oxalis.

That said, I am switching to TZone for any future outbreaks of oxalis. That, or Momentum FX2 if it is over 75-80% or so.

RigglePLC
07-14-2011, 03:27 PM
You should use Trimec or T-Zone at maximum label rate for oxalis and the tough weeds. Oxalis and some tough weeds are hard to wet. You should include a surfactant (as much as you want--no regulations). Of course, surfactant can be costly, except it is cheap in spot spraying and low volume situations.
Try to spray all weeds when they are young and growing fast--rather than mature at flowering or going to seed.

LAWN ESCAPE
07-14-2011, 06:27 PM
T-Zone Herbicide works great for Oxalis and Creeping Charlie control (also known as ground ivy).

I applied T-Zone at the 1.5 oz/1,000 sq ft rate and got excellent results. Also according to the universities, fall is an excellent time to control Creeping Charlie.

For wild violets: The T-Zone label says *** For best results, apply in the spring when wild violets are blooming or apply a late fall application followed by a spring application. http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/T-Zone-SL.pdf

For spring applications to "blooming" wild violets, the late April or early May is the best timing.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

SEE Creeping Charlie (Ground Ivy) pictures:
SEE Oxalis pictures:

Untreated and 14 days (both weeds) after treatment with T-Zone.

dgw
07-14-2011, 07:51 PM
nice , lawn escape, thanks guys


DA- i found trimec can be deceiving with oxalis , it will suppress it but thats all ive gotten


i run 992 in my 120 gallon tank at 1.20z per k , with a surfactant and have had no kill on oxalis


now that i know t-zone will kill oxalis, i picked up a pound of dry drive 75


im going to mix t-zone and drive in my spot backpacks in hopes of creating the ultimate spot spray solution



i will document a few difficult to control weeds


let me know if there are any requests

Young Bros
07-20-2011, 12:14 AM
We use T-Zone in the fall-late fall. We don't use in high temps cause it is ester based. Volitization can occur with higher temps, high humidy, & light-no wind. Tricropyr works good in the fall, cause in the fall weeds are transfering all their energy to the roots. Works pretty good on creeper & violets. We always use LI700 in our tank mixes.

For crabgrass, we use Solitare. It has sulfentrazone (also in t-zone) & quinclorac (also in drive) in it, so it kills weeds & crabgrass. Nice little bottle of dry with a scoop that we put in backpacks.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-20-2011, 01:46 PM
TZone seems good - but I paid $70/gal for the stuff. Thats too high for long term use.
Heck, Momentum FX2 was only around $55/gal and contains Triclopyr. And it is not an ester base. I think I would rather go back to that. Ever since Imprelis bombed...