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View Full Version : Calculations, i want to dbl check my #'s


bcomstock15
07-05-2011, 01:43 PM
Hello. I have a Fimco ATV sprayer (atv-25-71) with 7 nozzles (8002s) and a 140" boom ill operate at 40 psi.

I'm spraying Par III which reccomends 55 mL in 3 L of water/100m^2.

my machine moves at 1.25 mph(2 kph), 2.5 mph(4kph), or 3.5 mph(5.6kph)

how many mL per litre will i mix at each speed?

Thank YOU! :waving:

bcomstock15
07-05-2011, 02:11 PM
I have calculated about 25 mL per 1 litre water @ 4km per hr (2.5 mph).

Does that seem like it would reflect what the label requires?

PR Fect
07-05-2011, 04:03 PM
You need to know how many litters of water each nozzle sprays in a measured amount of time. Or a least an average amount of spray between the 7 nozzles. Say its an average of .25 liters per minute, per nozzle as an example. Then you need to know the distance in 100m2 that you traveled at those speeds. Say it took you 1 minute to go 1,000m2 at the 2kph speed. Then you can do the math on a measured amount of liquid you put down in a measured area, at a set speed, in a set time.

vencops
07-05-2011, 04:14 PM
I have the same rig (ATV-25-71). I'm curious as to what kind of coverage you're getting (no streaking?)....and what height you have your boom set at.

I'm also curious (from others familiar with this rig) if there aren't better nozzles available.

What do you have this mounted on?

bcomstock15
07-09-2011, 12:25 PM
PR Fect: thanks for helping with this, according to my sprayers manual, with these nozzles, the spray rates at 40 psi are 0.2 gpm, and have the following usage over 1000 ft. squared (i prefer metric, but its American made):

1mph: 1.36 gallons
2mph: .68 gallons
3mph: .45 gallons

Is this the information required?

Vencops:

I have it mounted on a JD walk behind, its exactly 18" as spec'd in the instructions. don't know about different nozzles.

Streaking i would imagine applies more to fert apps, i wouldn't see anything like that with herbicide.

Thanks for the help.

RigglePLC
07-09-2011, 01:35 PM
This is hard for me after doing the metric conversions. I found your instructins are about right--at 3.5 mph, my calculations showed you would be applying about 1.04 ounce per 1000 sqft. Perfect.

Except if you have tough weeds I would go slower at 2.5 mph, thereby applying about 1.45 ounces per 1000 sqft. Why kill some of the weeds? Kill 'em all.

bcomstock15
07-09-2011, 02:59 PM
Thanks RigglePLC , i prefer to do it on a mL/litre basis at each speed. Is this a bad way to think of things? just seems easier for me to remember.

ex.
2.5 kmh = 25mL/L

CLS LLC
07-10-2011, 12:22 PM
I have the same rig (ATV-25-71). I'm curious as to what kind of coverage you're getting (no streaking?)....and what height you have your boom set at.

I'm also curious (from others familiar with this rig) if there aren't better nozzles available.

What do you have this mounted on?

I run the same model and have found the provided nozzles to be worthless. The spray pattern is very narrow and you would have to set your boom height to about 40 inches to get adequate coverage. I use the following nozzles at 20 inch nozzle height and they are a huge improvement. I wouldn't even use this sprayer if I had to use the original nozzles.

http://www.gemplers.com/product/G48800/TeeJet-Flat-Spray-Tip-Extended-Range

If I were to do it again I would spend the extra money to get air induction nozzles to decrease drift. Like these:

http://www.gemplers.com/product/G41002/TeeJet-Air-Induction-Nozzle

They are expensive but they are worth it.

Also to the original poster there is a chart in the fimco manual that gives you very good guidlines if you are using the original nozzles. If I recall though it is OZ and not ML.

RigglePLC
07-10-2011, 03:23 PM
Broomstock,
you are fine with metric system. Just remember that the faster you go --the less herbicide you are aplying per sq ft or sq meter or whatever units you are using. And don't trust what the manufacturers are saying--you have to calibrate for yourself--and then make a fill chart or spreadsheet for the various conditions and speeds.

Angle the nozzles back to reduce drift.

bcomstock15
07-12-2011, 08:11 PM
Well, I sprayed part of my back yd last week with the 25 ml/L@4 km/hr, and it seems like it must be too weak. It turned some clover brown, but didn't affect the thistles or dandelions much. Should i just try adding another 5ml/L to the mix and try again? probably not haha.

Based on the information i gave above, can anyone come up with a mL/L @ 1.25 mph(2 kph), 2.5 mph(4kph), or 3.5 mph(5.6kph) ? I know its asking alot, i just want to make sure my numbers are correct before taking the rig on customers property. Thank You.

RigglePLC
07-12-2011, 09:17 PM
On second thought, I tried again and found that at 1.25 mph and 11.6 feet wide you are covering 1276 sq feet per minute. (or 118.5 sq meters). And you would be applying 1.5 ounces per 1000 sqft. At 2.5 mph you would be applying .75 ounce per thousand sqft. At 3.5 mph you are applying .64 ounces per thousand sqft.
I agree; your solution is too weak. You need about 58 ml per liter, (at 4 km/hr).

GrandMaster
07-14-2011, 04:31 PM
On second thought, I tried again and found that at 1.25 mph and 11.6 feet wide you are covering 1276 sq feet per minute. (or 118.5 sq meters). And you would be applying 1.5 ounces per 1000 sqft. At 2.5 mph you would be applying .75 ounce per thousand sqft. At 3.5 mph you are applying .64 ounces per thousand sqft.
I agree; your solution is too weak. You need about 58 ml per liter, (at 4 km/hr).

64ml per liter.

bcomstock15
07-15-2011, 09:15 PM
wow, 64ml/L i'm surprized its so high. i'll go test it on my lawn :) ok to apply on 25-28 degree celcius days? how much of this product would it take to harm a lawn? its my mail concern obviously. thank you all for your help.

RigglePLC
07-15-2011, 09:25 PM
If 28 is 82.4 degrees F, you are fine. Coolest conditions of anyone here.
If applied evenly, you should have a margin of safety. Injury to the grass would occur at somewhere near 2 to 4 times proper rate of application. My opinion.
Remember if you apply half speed--you will double the rate. Don't forget to stop the sprayer before you stop moving.

bcomstock15
07-15-2011, 10:01 PM
Heres my spray rig, first one (used only backpack before). That is a 17 HP JD WB GS75 . I removed the deck to take some weight out (easy). What issues to you see me having with it? :canadaflag:

DavidNJ
07-16-2011, 02:21 AM
The nozzles look like they are spraying the front wheels and maybe part of the frame.

I like the way you reversed the boom so it bends when hitting an obstacle, although that prevents them from fully folding.

On mine, I have the tank mounted on the arms to the front casters and the boom stretched out in front of them. Leaving the boom to fold forward, I have a problem if I hit an obstacle that you have cleverly avoided.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224934&stc=1&d=1309742781

You also took a better picture than me! :(

bcomstock15
07-16-2011, 07:54 PM
pics just taken on my blackberry, decent camera.

the boom was spraying on the wheels when moving forward, the boom is now a bit ahead. no problems. its nice haveing it fold the right direction, i know someone would have hit a tree or something and fkd the boom up otherwise. it folds nicely, installed a stop to the right boom wont rest on the muffler. i also installed valves to i can run it with the boom folded, for narrower areas.

When that things full, you definitely notice it. i was still climbing some decent hills, but you lose some traction when your turning and stuff, the wheel thats stopping just drags, i just lean on the handle bar and that seemed to help a lot. if we have a big open field we'll run it full, lots of turns just half or so.

White Gardens
07-16-2011, 10:05 PM
Bcomstock15, do you have a wide open area where you can do some strait water runs to check your liquid output at certain speeds?

I'm lucky enough to have a couple of acres to do testing on and I've marked out a 10k sq/f area to see exactly how much output I'm getting at certain speeds and also at different line pressures after doing the calculations.

At least on some of your bigger properties you can pinpoint it by how many gallons you used over the total square feet of the property you sprayed.


...

bcomstock15
07-18-2011, 08:07 PM
White Gardens: yes, i do. good idea.

I have one more question, on my sprayer (pic above) i wanted to be able to run it with the boom folded for use in tight areas, so put a valve before the nozzles on each outer piece of the boom, Works great.

The question is if i need to adjust rates to run it like that? the pressure obviously changes, so if i run it at the same pressure as i do with the boom un-folded, does the app rate need to change too?

RigglePLC
07-18-2011, 11:02 PM
Are you using a pressure regulator? Check the output per minute with the valves open and closed. If you have a pressure regulator and pressure guage. Experiment, adjust regulator until you get the proper flow. Make a chart and glue it to the tank. " Use 40 pounds except when spraying the center only--then use 30 pounds." Or as needed.

DavidNJ
07-19-2011, 01:00 PM
One question is how accurately you can control the speed. Without GPS speed control, isn't there at least a 10% variation there, and maybe greater?

Then, if the unit is used on turns or arcs, what is the difference in rate between the outside of the boom and the inside?

White Gardens
07-19-2011, 04:04 PM
One question is how accurately you can control the speed. Without GPS speed control, isn't there at least a 10% variation there, and maybe greater?

Then, if the unit is used on turns or arcs, what is the difference in rate between the outside of the boom and the inside?

That's why I say a strait water run is going to give you your final answer.

On my little POS simplicity mower, I pull a unit behind it. It has two notches in the shifter column. One for max mowing speed, and one for road travel.

I can do the calculations of speed, out-put, etc... then go out and test coverage at the two different speeds. Ultimately there is no variation in the speed with the notch positions.


....

White Gardens
07-19-2011, 04:05 PM
On my little POS simplicity mower, I pull a unit behind it. It has two notches in the shifter column. One for max mowing speed, and one for road travel.
....

Ah, shouldn't say that, love the little thing and how well it lays some 34" stripes.


...

bcomstock15
07-20-2011, 12:12 AM
speed is controlled accurately imo, full throttle, and then there are set gears. maybe a little bit of variation if its not running tip top or something, but not 10%, less than 5% id guess.

Of course there will be a difference when i turn, how could you possibly avoid that on any sprayer setup? maybe i'm doing it wrong, ive been going in strips, turning 180 degrees each time.

Im starting to see results from the spray i did 4-5 days ago, dandelion leaves are browning up, curling etc, clover is dying fast. is that a normal time frame?

I'm a little worried that it's affecting my grass a bit, but it's so minor i can't even really tell if its happening. just seems like its a bit yellower where i sprayed. should i be concerned?

RigglePLC
07-20-2011, 11:13 AM
I would say you are in good shape. 4 to 5 days to turn dandelions and clover brown is about right. Under warm moist conditions you will notice curling and twist of the leaf stem and tip of the weed after only 12 hours. If weather is dry or the weeds are mature or growing slowly for some reason the reaction is much slower.