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Landscape Poet
07-05-2011, 09:58 PM
Just thought I would throw up a few pics of a Zoysia install done today. Not a huge fan of Zoysia, mainly because they have gotten every home owner in FL to by into their marketing that it is the perfect miracle grass, but from a profitability standpoint I am learning to love itpayuppayuppayup

Florida Gardener
07-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Not a miracle grass, but chinch resistant and you can get rid of grassy weeds with chems. Needs to be cut with a reel though which is a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to.
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Ric
07-06-2011, 12:49 AM
Not a miracle grass, but chinch resistant and you can get rid of grassy weeds with chems. Needs to be cut with a reel though which is a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to.
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Chris

Weed free because it is tolerant of just about any herbicide. But watch out for the Fungus. I am not real sold on Zoysia either.

greendoctor
07-06-2011, 01:16 AM
A zoysia lawn is the only one I can think of that can be restored from years of neglect and improper maintenance. It is the only grass in my area that will come back if it has not been irrigated. St augustine and bermuda are quickly lost if not cared for and irrigated. Zoysia will get dollar spot, leaf spot and sometimes brown patch. It is nothing like bermuda, though. In the 1990's, I know of many people that lost their hybrid bermuda to Take All, forcing them to convert to zoysia.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 07:42 AM
Not a miracle grass, but chinch resistant
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This is only one of the things that get me with customers and the marketing. The tell them this and I get calls for Zoysia because the homeowner will tell me on how he will not have to pay for a L & O companies.
That followed by them telling me that it is drought resistant and they will save so much on their water bill:confused::confused::confused:

They have no idea about fungal issues with it, they have no idea that IMHO they are trying to get a lower maintenance turf, when again IMHO they are getting a higher maintenance turf.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Needs to be cut with a reel though which is a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to.
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Not really - might be better for sure but you have to remember that if the land is prepped and graded properly you CAN cut and maintain this turf in a attractive manner just fine with a rotary mower. I can assure you that their is enough Zoysia up north being cut with out a reel mower that it is not needed, again, in a ideal world, maybe.

Ric - given your experience answer me this. What is the ideal height for cutting Zoysia. U of G says 1 to 1.5 inches is preferred from my course work. 2 inches from U of F. Most L & O 's I have talked to hear prefer the 2 inch what is your opinion given empire in our environment and why? The answer I have been most commonly given is that given the dense stand - that cutting higher/allowing to grow higher is much more likely to create fungal issues - any truth in your opinion on that?

Plantculture
07-06-2011, 08:00 AM
IMO
It depends on the variety of Zoysia. The 'Cashemere' around here is typically mowed at .5 inches and 'Diamond' can be mowed at greens height.
I've seen 'Ultimate flora' and 'Empire' mowed at 2" with a rotary, and also mowed at about .75". The shorter looks 10x better.

Ric
07-06-2011, 08:30 AM
A zoysia lawn is the only one I can think of that can be restored from years of neglect and improper maintenance. It is the only grass in my area that will come back if it has not been irrigated. St augustine and bermuda are quickly lost if not cared for and irrigated. Zoysia will get dollar spot, leaf spot and sometimes brown patch. It is nothing like bermuda, though. In the 1990's, I know of many people that lost their hybrid bermuda to Take All, forcing them to convert to zoysia.

Green

Interesting you say Zoysia will come back from a drought. I really don't have that many Zoysia accounts, but. I had a customer who turned off his water and let his Zoysia go totally dry thinking it was going to go dormant and then come back. Trouble was it just died and never came back.

Because Zoysia grows so slow it is a real PITA to get to fill in.


Mikey

Take Plantcultures answer because I really don't have an answer about mowing height for you.

bugsNbows
07-06-2011, 09:06 AM
I'm becoming a zoysia fan. However, it's not a miracle grass.... there are none of those. We are seeing a lot of conversions here (from SA) primarily due to the chinch bug issues. Most of the new installs are with Empire although there has been some Jamur and El Torro I'm told. The Ultimate Flora lawns turned into disasters. On one street, we have two (approx 12-15K) Empire lawns. One is cut at 3/4 inch, the other about 2". They are both beautiful, although I prefer the short cut. Regarding drought tolerance, once the zoysia has established on site (6 mos. minimum) it can recover from drought damage quite well. This is primarily due to the presence of both rhizomes and stolons from which to re-grow. SA only has stolons... once they croak it's game over.

Florida Gardener
07-06-2011, 10:25 AM
Not really - might be better for sure but you have to remember that if the land is prepped and graded properly you CAN cut and maintain this turf in a attractive manner just fine with a rotary mower. I can assure you that their is enough Zoysia up north being cut with out a reel mower that it is not needed, again, in a ideal world, maybe.

Ric - given your experience answer me this. What is the ideal height for cutting Zoysia. U of G says 1 to 1.5 inches is preferred from my course work. 2 inches from U of F. Most L & O 's I have talked to hear prefer the 2 inch what is your opinion given empire in our environment and why? The answer I have been most commonly given is that given the dense stand - that cutting higher/allowing to grow higher is much more likely to create fungal issues - any truth in your opinion on that?
Yes, you can cut empire with a rotary, but a reel will give an overall better look. It is the same as pruning ornamentals with felcos vs. using a trimmer. Plus, I can do a zoysia yard faster and better with my Tru-cut AND charge more than using a rotary.
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GatorinFla
07-06-2011, 11:40 AM
IMO
It depends on the variety of Zoysia. The 'Cashemere' around here is typically mowed at .5 inches and 'Diamond' can be mowed at greens height.
I've seen 'Ultimate flora' and 'Empire' mowed at 2" with a rotary, and also mowed at about .75". The shorter looks 10x better.

Shorter= Denser

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 11:46 AM
Bugs n bows

You said somthing interesting. You said Jamar......can you tell me where I can pull this from locally? I have a client that wants 14 palletsinstalled but only jamar. I called Orange county extension, sod solutions, bethal farms and several other trying to find with no luck
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Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Shorter= Denser

But at what cost I guess is my question, cultivator dependent of course, Empire in particular. I would assume that there are pluses to each side of height, and that was I was interested in hearing especially from the Chem guys. In a ideal world what would they want all their Zoysia lawns cut at in FL and what reasoning behind the desired cut height.

Keith
07-06-2011, 12:14 PM
Bugs n bows

You said somthing interesting. You said Jamar......can you tell me where I can pull this from locally? I have a client that wants 14 palletsinstalled but only jamar. I called Orange county extension, sod solutions, bethal farms and several other trying to find with no luck
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S & K in St. Cloud lists it. That's the closest I found.

williams lcm
07-06-2011, 02:05 PM
The grass will go dormant in the winter and will not need to cut it. Alot of people are switching over to this stuff. Will soon replace St.Augustine . Most who have it cant see paying a lawn guy in the winter when it really dont grow. :( That is why I still like St.augustine. Still have to cut in winter.

Plantculture
07-06-2011, 02:52 PM
But at what cost I guess is my question, cultivator dependent of course, Empire in particular. I would assume that there are pluses to each side of height, and that was I was interested in hearing especially from the Chem guys. In a ideal world what would they want all their Zoysia lawns cut at in FL and what reasoning behind the desired cut height.

Mowing it shorter and going lean on Nitrogen and proper water helps to reduce thatch build-up. It will still need to be verticut periodically.
I don't believe mowing height relates to disease incidence.
Greendoc may have some insight on that.

unkownfl
07-06-2011, 09:10 PM
I mow plenty at 3.5-4 inches that look fine for what the customers want. Most don't want it shorter as it tends to need more maintenance. Either way I still cut every week they just save penny's on water. I've seen many homeowners lose there Zoysia due to drought tolerant not proof confusion. I like my Grand Parents Bermuda much better than the Zoysia only downside is mowing it about every 5 days for it to look good and bagging with the old mcclane kinda sucks. I tried mowing some Zoysia with the reel but the customers flipped out when I told them how short I planned on take it down to. I wasn't just going to shave it either probably take .25 inches extra off at a time. One down side to Zoysia is it really only looks good about 7 months out of the year last year.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 09:39 PM
The grass will go dormant in the winter and will not need to cut it. Alot of people are switching over to this stuff. Will soon replace St.Augustine . Most who have it cant see paying a lawn guy in the winter when it really dont grow. :( That is why I still like St.augustine. Still have to cut in winter.

Not overly concerned about it at this point. It is growing and the request for it are getting crazy BUT if people want to not have their lawn maintained year round that is fine, but they have to understand that their is a premium for the months of service vs the current standard we have here in FL. Trust me when I say I am from up north and would have no issue getting a better price per cut and not showing up at all winter or if we have a good warm winter earning a little extra, but the simple fact is, you, me - we have to be able to support ourselves from this - and most reasonable people will understand that.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 09:42 PM
I don't believe mowing height relates to disease incidence.
Greendoc may have some insight on that.

That is what I am looking for I guess. Insight from you guys that are doing the chemicals - what are your thoughts. Dependent on who you talk to, it is a pretty well believed notion with many that mowing height does related to diseases (well stresses for sure any way). I am looking for info in what you L & O folk think, so that I can help you achieve your desired results, which in turn, helps me achieve mine.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 09:44 PM
I mow plenty at 3.5-4 inches that look fine for what the customers want. Most don't want it shorter as it tends to need more maintenance. Either way I still cut every week they just save penny's on water. I've seen many homeowners lose there Zoysia due to drought tolerant not proof confusion. I like my Grand Parents Bermuda much better than the Zoysia only downside is mowing it about every 5 days for it to look good and bagging with the old mcclane kinda sucks. I tried mowing some Zoysia with the reel but the customers flipped out when I told them how short I planned on take it down to. I wasn't just going to shave it either probably take .25 inches extra off at a time. One down side to Zoysia is it really only looks good about 7 months out of the year last year.

Unknown - with the lawns maintained at the higher cut heights - do they not appear puffy? The way I describe the zoysia lawns that I have seen cut higher is that they look like a giant "Afro Puff" of a lawn. I am assuming that is related to the thatch being built up as plantculture referenced.

unkownfl
07-06-2011, 09:48 PM
Unknown - with the lawns maintained at the higher cut heights - do they not appear puffy? The way I describe the zoysia lawns that I have seen cut higher is that they look like a giant "Afro Puff" of a lawn. I am assuming that is related to the thatch being built up as plantculture referenced.

Check your PM.

Landscape Poet
07-06-2011, 10:54 PM
Check your PM.

Thanks and will do.

bugsNbows
07-07-2011, 08:44 AM
S & K in St. Cloud lists it. That's the closest I found.

Possibly Frank Polly Sod (352-429-9162) in Groveland FL can get it (I'm not sure who his supplier is). Frank told me (about the Jamur) a couple of weeks ago when he was having trouble getting Empire.

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 05:03 PM
Mowing it shorter and going lean on Nitrogen and proper water helps to reduce thatch build-up. It will still need to be verticut periodically.
I don't believe mowing height relates to disease incidence.
Greendoc may have some insight on that.

In my area, closely mowed zoysia looks really nice, I mean like golf fairway grass or golf green grass even. However, the level of maintenance is also equivalent. I think you have read my other posts concerning 1/2-3/4 lb of N per month and a minimum of 1/4 lb K per month as well as sufficient available iron and manganese. This regime serves two purposes: It keeps the golf turf look and it helps to prevent diseases. If I ever starve my zoysia, I get to deal with dollar spot. I have never seen it personally, however, I suspect that thick(over 1" HOC) zoysia will tend to get more brown patch and pythium due to the high levels of moisture retained in the canopy. It is also hard to get even a liquid fertilizer down into zoysia kept that high.

What I tell clients that are hesitant to cut zoysia down to the ground and keep it at the right height is that it will look bad for a little while, but it will then finish the year looking like golf turf. Cutting off a little at a time just prolongs the poor appearance. It is quite normal here to take a brush cutter with carbide tipped circular blades and saw the thatched grass down to the ground. The trash literally comes up like a bad carpet for disposal. Regular walk behind dethatchers and verticut machines usually jam if made to go through zoysia, hence the saw blade on the brush cutter. A sod cutter set to skim just above the soil level will also work. Once all of the overgrowth is removed, maintenance is easy. A common engine driven reel mower will maintain the appearance. If a lawn takes excessive effort to mow with a reel mower, that is a sign that it needs to be cut down to the ground.

Firefighter337
07-07-2011, 05:22 PM
I cut the Empire zoysia at my house with a 25" tru cut. Super nice grass. I cut at 1". Once I top dress I will lower it to .5" Extremely dense and resilient grass.

I have to take the reel mower to the shop, for some reason it is cutting slightly lower on one side leaving a noticeable stripe. I also have the roller attached to the mower.

Landscape Poet
07-07-2011, 06:59 PM
Just thought I would share this for all as IFAS finally updated their info on Zoysia

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh011

Firefighter337
07-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Thats good stuff.

YoungClay
07-08-2011, 01:04 PM
I cut my Zenith lawn at 2.75"...My terrain isnt completely level, so in some spots, the actual cut height is .75" and other areas are as high as 4". I think that the 2.5"-4" areas look the best.

As far as fertilization goes, I've been applying about 1/2 lb of nitrogen in the form of 18-24-12 every 40 days...if I go over 50 days without feeding it, I start to notice rust fungus.

I am seeing how long I can go this year without any sort of irrigation. So far, mother nature has been doing her job...lawn looks great right now.

I am a homeowner, not a professional.

Florida Gardener
07-08-2011, 01:41 PM
I cut my Zenith lawn at 2.75"...My terrain isnt completely level, so in some spots, the actual cut height is .75" and other areas are as high as 4". I think that the 2.5"-4" areas look the best.

As far as fertilization goes, I've been applying about 1/2 lb of nitrogen in the form of 18-24-12 every 40 days...if I go over 50 days without feeding it, I start to notice rust fungus.

I am seeing how long I can go this year without any sort of irrigation. So far, mother nature has been doing her job...lawn looks great right now.

I am a homeowner, not a professional.
I personally like the 1.5-2" on the empire, but also think the greens height looks good too.
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YoungClay
07-08-2011, 04:01 PM
its amazing how different the same grass can look when mowed at different heights.

Firefighter337
07-08-2011, 10:25 PM
5-10-31 w 10% iron

ericbl
07-15-2011, 11:37 PM
I have Jamur on my two year old lawn, it was developed by Dave Douget and grown here in Beaumont, the grass is very dense and takes a lot of abuse, i cut it with a rotary mower but will soon be using a truecut reel. it works very well here in southeast texas. here is a photo cut about 1.25 will be cutting it down to about .5 when i get the reel mower tuned up. we have been in a drought here with a shortage of 22 inches of rain ytd. i do have an irrigation system in the front yard on the side its simply gets when i drag the hose over to it. the entire yard is green after 2 inches of rain this week.

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h434/ericl1/EastJefferson-20110715-00039.jpg

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h434/ericl1/EastJefferson-20110715-00040.jpg

unkownfl
07-16-2011, 02:40 PM
That looks a lot taller than 1.25 inches.

Keith
07-16-2011, 03:48 PM
That was what I was thinking. Looks good though.

ericbl
07-16-2011, 04:29 PM
It might look taller because the sidewalks are at a lower level then the soil. it maybe a little longer due to the rain, and a couple days behind in mowing, but it's at the lowest setting on my mower, it's hardy grass, and I recommend it been cutting st. Augustine for over thirty years, which required three times a year fert and Twice a year with a pre-emergent the Jamur only requires two ferts and 1 pre emergent.
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ars2210
07-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Post has been removed.

ed2hess
07-17-2012, 09:29 PM
The main reason Texas is going zoysia is the save water and it isn't any different than any other grass in mowing. The stuff really really stays green and I will say I seen a couple yards that had NO water put on them come back nicely when the rains came. The fungus is my main concern especially on areas where we have drip and it might get overwatered in the winter.