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vencops
07-07-2011, 06:05 PM
I'm currently picking up a few new customers. The 1st thing I'm doing is collecting soils samples from each property.

I'm not sure of the extent some of these customers are going to be signing on for (full program or not). So, I'm trying to see how others in the industry handle costs associated with collecting/handling soil samples. The actual analysis (NCDofA) is a free service to NC residents. I would have costs associated with time (collecting samples); fuel; shipping.

For the ones I'm sure are signing on for the full program, I'm doing this pro bono (costs are absorbed).

How do you guys handle this?

I don't want to come across as "petty". But, I also don't want to do a LOT of free work. Does the fact that you WILL get a high percentage of the customers you perform this for off-set the ones where you go through this process for nothing?

Thanks for your replies.

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 06:15 PM
I take soil from people once they have signed my service agreement. I do not charge them extra for the test. I also share results with them. Meaning that I will meet with them and take time to explain the results to them as well as what I intend to do with their lawn based on the results of the test.

vencops
07-07-2011, 06:24 PM
I hear ya, green doc. I'm hoping it works out that way for me, too. But, what I'm finding is.....folks seem pleasantly surprised that someone would take the initiative to do this for them. People who already have a company doing their fert./squirt program have never been approached about this. These are folks who are very interested in their lawns. I don't think they'd miss the opportunity.

Leaves me to believe their current provider hasn't ever taken the time to take a sampling.

I'm thinking it's a great selling tool. And, I don't want to nickel and dime folks with a fee if I can help it. I also don't want to get taken advantage of. Just curious if anyone else does it this way.....and, if it pays off in the end??

I've also thought of just telling them it's a one-time $30 fee that would be waived if they sign of for a program.

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 06:42 PM
You know, I run a slightly different program. It is not per round or per application. It is what I would need to do in a 12 month growing season averaged out over 12 months. No nickel and diming, no this will cost you extra. I have had clients pleasantly surprised because their last service provider made it seem that soil testing was some kind of special ceremony not commonly done.

jbturf
07-07-2011, 06:52 PM
venco, i do charge for soil testing,
not much (35 for residentials) just enough to cover
my costs, i have this as a seperate line item on my estimates,

and always recommend it to new customers,
it also provides an easy upsell on services upon the
results of the test,
ie liming,aerating, micros, topdressing etc...
i qoute this stuff in a letter i compose for my customers
to explain the basics of the test report

i see you want to offer this free to help you get business going,
thats great -
after a while you will likely find people happy to pay for this if
you recommend it to them
g/l

americanlawn
07-07-2011, 07:26 PM
Wondering which part of the property folks are taking soil samples from. New developments often have clay soil in front, sides, and immediately behind the house (construction), but when you get way in the back yard, it's often times good soil. Just saying.

BTW, we charge every time for the soil analysis as well as for our time. This added expense usually turns people off -- especially when they see neighbors' lawns that we treat. my 2 cents

RigglePLC
07-07-2011, 07:58 PM
Depends on your point of view. It is a great selling point, because Rue green and the other companies seldom test customer's soil. Also, you can ask the potential customer if you can come over to meet with them and give them the soil test result, explain and interpret it for them. (And give them a great sales presentation.)

vencops
07-07-2011, 08:02 PM
Great stuff, guys. Really good points in here.

Thanks to all.

Smallaxe
07-08-2011, 09:08 AM
One thing that is overlooked, is that most soils in a given area are basically the same... even the blends of various topsoils brought in are basically the same...

It would be nice to hear someone state, "I've done 20 to 30 soil tests in my area and these are the common deficiencies and pH numbers that are indigenous to this region."

Soil samples are for problem areas that don't make sense and grass grows all across the country w/out a lot of supplements for several thousand years already... :)

vencops
07-08-2011, 09:24 AM
Soil samples are for problem areas that don't make sense and grass grows all across the country w/out a lot of supplements for several thousand years already...


Says the man from Wisc.....lol.:)

Some (grass) grows better than others. Ever see one of our deer compared to yours? Same principle.

If your goal is to grow lush, green grass....I'd say my state's a minor problem area.

p.s. - Grass will survive without much irrigation, too. Mine does. But, it doesn't look like my clients' grass (the ones that irrigate).

Now that I read your above again.....I have no idea what your point was.

Kiril
07-08-2011, 09:26 AM
One thing that is overlooked, is that most soils in a given area are basically the same... even the blends of various topsoils brought in are basically the same...

Even if that is true, they are typically not managed the same way, nor do they have the same micro-climates.

It would be nice to hear someone state, "I've done 20 to 30 soil tests in my area and these are the common deficiencies and pH numbers that are indigenous to this region."

Pull a soil survey.

Kiril
07-08-2011, 09:31 AM
I'm currently picking up a few new customers. The 1st thing I'm doing is collecting soils samples from each property.

I'm not sure of the extent some of these customers are going to be signing on for (full program or not). So, I'm trying to see how others in the industry handle costs associated with collecting/handling soil samples. The actual analysis (NCDofA) is a free service to NC residents. I would have costs associated with time (collecting samples); fuel; shipping.

For the ones I'm sure are signing on for the full program, I'm doing this pro bono (costs are absorbed).

How do you guys handle this?

I don't want to come across as "petty". But, I also don't want to do a LOT of free work. Does the fact that you WILL get a high percentage of the customers you perform this for off-set the ones where you go through this process for nothing?

Thanks for your replies.

Proper soil sampling takes time (minimum 15-20 cores per hydrozone). If you are not charging for this now .... you will be soon.

mike174
07-09-2011, 12:53 AM
I hear ya, green doc. I'm hoping it works out that way for me, too. But, what I'm finding is.....folks seem pleasantly surprised that someone would take the initiative to do this for them. People who already have a company doing their fert./squirt program have never been approached about this. These are folks who are very interested in their lawns. I don't think they'd miss the opportunity.

Leaves me to believe their current provider hasn't ever taken the time to take a sampling.

I'm thinking it's a great selling tool. And, I don't want to nickel and dime folks with a fee if I can help it. I also don't want to get taken advantage of. Just curious if anyone else does it this way.....and, if it pays off in the end??

I've also thought of just telling them it's a one-time $30 fee that would be waived if they sign of for a program.

I agree, you don't want to nickel and dime, but it costs me $25 (analysis & shipping) so I charge $35 for a sample test. No one has said this was too expensive or unfair. If they sign up for service, you could drop it to cost as an incentive.

Smallaxe
07-09-2011, 06:59 AM
Says the man from Wisc.....lol.:)

Some (grass) grows better than others. Ever see one of our deer compared to yours? Same principle.

If your goal is to grow lush, green grass....I'd say my state's a minor problem area.

p.s. - Grass will survive without much irrigation, too. Mine does. But, it doesn't look like my clients' grass (the ones that irrigate).

Now that I read your above again.....I have no idea what your point was.

My point is simply that a soil sample is a waste of time and money... NPK + micrnutrients and maybe pH can be issues, but we all know that the soils in our area is a little acidic... we all know that P is unnecessary for lawns to thrive and in fact being outlawed here soon... we all know that N should be applied when the conditions are right... Perhaps K in the fall or not... don't like the color with N add some Fe and see if it helps...

BTW we have plenty of excellent lawns that would be better with proper irrigation, and have never done a soil test... I think that this is just compensation for not building soil structure that is necessary for any of the additional NPK+ to work anyways...
I would agree with a soil structure test... :)

McFarland_Lawn_Care
07-09-2011, 07:31 AM
I charge for it and offer it to customers who sign up for the program. Like already stated, I will take time to explain results to them and make recommendations based on the condition of their soil. It's the first thing I do when someone signs up - very important step and helpful. As different soils in front or behind the houses, that's why you take many samples and mix them together to get a good average. Around here they aren't THAT different on the same property. But then again, I have to pay for my samples, they aren't free in this area! lol

Kiril
07-09-2011, 08:20 AM
My point is simply that a soil sample is a waste of time and money...

If you are a home owner and prefer the blind shotgun approach to nutrient management then you are right. :hammerhead:

vencops
07-09-2011, 09:01 AM
My point is simply that a soil sample is a waste of time and money...



I just can't imagine standing in front of a customer and saying "I know your soil's acidic. I'll just add lime". Even though I DO likely feel this would be a true statement (around here)......I'd be really afraid he'd say "How do you know"?

Uuuuuuhhhhhhhhh

Smallaxe
07-09-2011, 12:58 PM
I still don't look at it as a "Blind shotgun approach" nor do I add lime unless it is necessary and even in this generally acidic area, lime is not necessary.... I do have customers that request it and a soil test would only prove their point that lime is 'needed', when everyhing with the turf is just fine...

Poor soil structure and poor CEC are the biggest problems that most lawns have... dump on some boron and magnesium then you soil is more balanced... but wait... soil structure is so poor that the ferts are still inaccessible anyways...

Here's a shotgun blast that almost every soil can use... increase SOM, CEC and perculation... If that don't produce the perfect lawn then get a soil test... :)

Smallaxe
07-09-2011, 01:11 PM
I just can't imagine standing in front of a customer and saying "I know your soil's acidic. I'll just add lime". Even though I DO likely feel this would be a true statement (around here)......I'd be really afraid he'd say "How do you know"?

Uuuuuuhhhhhhhhh

I realize that overthinking diagnostics are the most important thing in this computerized age, but believe it or not the best mechanics long ago were the ones that listen to the engine and tell you what the problem is... now everything is blamed on "the brain" which starts messing with everything when one little thing goes wrong...

I'm not afraid of telling the customer that the problem is not the lack of lime, the problem is your soil doesn't breathe... or your soil is too dry most of the time... besides most irrigated lawns don't even live off the nutrients in the soil, they live on the nutrient soup that is sitting on the thatch...

Will P.C.
07-09-2011, 01:38 PM
I agree with Smallaxe on this. Unless you are doing some university owned "research" (UGA) grass, a soil sample isn't going to change much. The average fert company will still use their basic system on when/what products they use over the season. Are your maintenance programs vastly different in your route?
Probably not.

I still think it is a good selling point. I have never had a company offer to test for me. It shows the customer that you are applying a science thus making your services more valuable in their minds.

Smallaxe
07-09-2011, 01:53 PM
... I still think it is a good selling point. I have never had a company offer to test for me. It shows the customer that you are applying a science thus making your services more valuable in their minds.

No question about that... I was thinking of keeping a copy of one in my glovebox... then when I need to dazzle a client I just pull it out and explain it to them... :)

americanlawn
07-09-2011, 06:15 PM
About 15 years ago, we took soil samples from about 212 properties (customers). The soil tests were provided to us for FREE by http://www.agroliquid.com. This was cuz we were a "volume purchaser" at that time. The tests were performed by http://www.mvtl.com

They tested soil pH and nutrient deficiencies. The results boiled down to 2 categories:

Loam soil/clay soil

Loam soil: pH = 6.9 - 7.5 Nutrient deficiencies: nitrogen

Clay soil: pH = 8.4 - 8.9 Nutrient deficiencies: nitrogen, iron, manganese, zinc, copper, manganese, sulfur, boron.

Smallaxe -- Did I nail this one on the head or what. :cool2::usflag:

One thing that is overlooked, is that most soils in a given area are basically the same... even the blends of various topsoils brought in are basically the same...

It would be nice to hear someone state, "I've done 20 to 30 soil tests in my area and these are the common deficiencies and pH numbers that are indigenous to this region."

Soil samples are for problem areas that don't make sense and grass grows all across the country w/out a lot of supplements for several thousand years already... :)

Kiril
07-09-2011, 06:44 PM
I still don't look at it as a "Blind shotgun approach"

You are free to look at it any way you want axe .... doesn't change the fact that it is blind management. Now if you do absolutely nothing at all to a lawn except the occasional mowing, then you are absolutely right, you don't need a soil test.

Poor soil structure and poor CEC

How does one go about determining poor structure and CEC?

but wait... soil structure is so poor that the ferts are still inaccessible anyways

How does soil structure affect nutrient availability?

XLS
07-09-2011, 09:36 PM
we do completely free samples all it takes for a basic test is the right meter ..... we walk a yard and hit the store button 10 times and done it cost 150.00 and you need to replace the tip a time or 2 if you break it .....

topsites
07-09-2011, 10:05 PM
Don't tell them what the soil test results were.

For those who do sign up, they can have the results, of course.
Those who don't, can still buy the actual results from you.

ted putnam
07-09-2011, 11:01 PM
I just can't imagine standing in front of a customer and saying "I know your soil's acidic. I'll just add lime". Even though I DO likely feel this would be a true statement (around here)......I'd be really afraid he'd say "How do you know"?

Uuuuuuhhhhhhhhh

Soils are acidic here as well. There is a general range that most fall in of course, but there is always the exception. As far as the Uuuuuuuuuhhhhhh, we carry a Kelway PH meter in each truck. Might not be as accurate as a Lab, but it helps you look that much more professional about your approach, especially when the customer or their neighbor sees you. Here the U of A has Cooperative Extension offices in every county. Soil tests are Free to individuals and businesses alike. All you have to do is go by their office to pick up/drop off collection bags. We usually get the results within a couple of weeks. If you are worried about the expense and you have to pay for them in your area then don't take samples until the first app. It's not like you are going to kill the lawn if you don't have just the right fert blend on the first app....JMO

Smallaxe
07-10-2011, 09:20 AM
... How does one go about determining poor structure ...?


Soil structure I compare to cookies vs fudge... a good homemade choco chip cookie with lots of air holes in it, that really soaks up the milk and crumbles into aggregate with every bite is a good structure, IMO... that would be a great combination loam(texture) that hasn't been overwatered to the point the cookie has been collapsed into a pancake(structure)...

The fudge of course is a clay loam(texture) that has no value in milk unless it has dried up and you soak it in a bowl in order to swell. With clay one normally finds the structure of platelets that flatten together as sheets of paper and form the hydrophobic barrier as oppose to aggregate structure that is more like a box of golfballs...

Smallaxe
07-10-2011, 09:31 AM
... How does one go about determining ... CEC?

How does soil structure affect nutrient availability?

These 2 questions go together in the sense that a good soil structure is usually made better with SOM and the perculation of clay...

Both have desireable CE sites that become availble to the root hairs in a good soil structure...

Smallaxe
07-10-2011, 09:44 AM
You are free to look at it any way you want axe .... doesn't change the fact that it is blind management. Now if you do absolutely nothing at all to a lawn except the occasional mowing, then you are absolutely right, you don't need a soil test. ...

What we are talking about here is, so-called 'blind management' vs. 'micro-management'...
Sure we could pretend that if we analysed every little thing according to what our 'tests' are telling us we may seem impressive to the ignorant masses...

However, isn't it true that there are 2 conflicting methods of testing soils and no one can be sure that either is actually giving the true picture of the soil???

The best test for the soil is: "Hey... the turf looks great after a little N w/Fe."
Of course we may be defiecient in magnesium according to an academic standard at some U of BS, that claims your lawn doesn't look nthat good and becuz you are to ignorant to know that your lawn doesn't look good we have professors that will tell you ... :laugh:

vencops
07-10-2011, 09:54 AM
So axe...

No chance the N w/Fe is "lipstick on a pig"?

Or, does that matter to you?

Smallaxe
07-10-2011, 10:21 AM
So axe...

No chance the N w/Fe is "lipstick on a pig"?

Or, does that matter to you?

Not sure what the implication is, but if you mean that the lawn is turning a bit pale by the end of August and we add a little N or Milorganite and the turf looks great once it cools and the rains return, then I don't worry about it...

Growing grass is about the simplest plant to grow, in that it thrives in a variety of conditions, except excessive interference... :)

Kiril
07-11-2011, 08:43 AM
Soil structure I compare to cookies vs fudge... a good homemade choco chip cookie with lots of air holes in it, that really soaks up the milk and crumbles into aggregate with every bite is a good structure, IMO... that would be a great combination loam(texture) that hasn't been overwatered to the point the cookie has been collapsed into a pancake(structure)...

The fudge of course is a clay loam(texture) that has no value in milk unless it has dried up and you soak it in a bowl in order to swell. With clay one normally finds the structure of platelets that flatten together as sheets of paper and form the hydrophobic barrier as oppose to aggregate structure that is more like a box of golfballs...

You are way off the mark here Axe. Why don't you just differentiate between compacted and not? Now how does one go about determining a compacted soil? At what level of compaction does one need to take action?

These 2 questions go together in the sense that a good soil structure is usually made better with SOM and the perculation of clay...

Both have desireable CE sites that become availble to the root hairs in a good soil structure...

Good soil structure does not equate to good CEC, soil fertility, or even necessarily nutrient availability. Again, how does one go about determining these factors?

What we are talking about here is, so-called 'blind management' vs. 'micro-management'...
Sure we could pretend that if we analysed every little thing according to what our 'tests' are telling us we may seem impressive to the ignorant masses...

What does this have anything to do with a soil test?

However, isn't it true that there are 2 conflicting methods of testing soils and no one can be sure that either is actually giving the true picture of the soil???

No. There are many different methods for testing different nutrients, in particular P, but that doesn't mean you are not getting a "picture" of the soil. Even if the testing methodology is not spot on accurate, it is a damn sight better than guessing.

The best test for the soil is: "Hey... the turf looks great after a little N w/Fe."

BULLSHIIT! Why not throw some more water at it too. :hammerhead: Any hack can throw N, Fe and water at a turf and "make it look good".

Of course we may be defiecient in magnesium according to an academic standard at some U of BS, that claims your lawn doesn't look nthat good and becuz you are to ignorant to know that your lawn doesn't look good we have professors that will tell you ... :laugh:

If you want to conduct your business like a blindfolded amateur then that is your business.

Smallaxe
07-11-2011, 12:32 PM
... Good soil structure does not equate to good CEC, soil fertility, or even necessarily nutrient availability. Again, how does one go about determining these factors? ...

My point is NPK on poor soils with poor soil structure is not as effective as less NPK on soils with better soil struture... Rule of Thumb... applies on all of my lawns... we are growing grass, not pushing for the extra bushel of wheat/A. an if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

proper cultural practices, build soil structure and a healthy turf, so let's Start there, then our dumping on of NPKs will be more effective, once we determine we can't make a perfect lawn w/out a soil test...

Now, How do I determine these factors???

http://ecomerge.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-soil-aggregates-are-and-how-its.html

I look at it... :)

vencops
07-11-2011, 03:56 PM
Not sure what the implication is, but if you mean that the lawn is turning a bit pale by the end of August and we add a little N or Milorganite and the turf looks great once it cools and the rains return, then I don't worry about it...

Growing grass is about the simplest plant to grow, in that it thrives in a variety of conditions, except excessive interference...


What I'm implying is (or, asking, really) ......can't we make UNhealthy grass look good, temporarily?

I'm asking if this is the best thing for the turf? You can add excessive water/N&Fe and put the proverbial lipstick on the pig. No?

Thanks.

dgw
07-11-2011, 05:00 PM
you can make unhealthy grass weed free

but in my experience , if a lawn is bad enough that the soil needs amended , fert has no effect


of course those lawns are obvious for the most part


and i have also found that if it does need amended , it usually is structure issues(compaction, stones, fill dirt, etc)

Kiril
07-12-2011, 08:08 AM
My point is NPK on poor soils with poor soil structure is not as effective as less NPK on soils with better soil struture... Rule of Thumb... applies on all of my lawns... we are growing grass, not pushing for the extra bushel of wheat/A. an if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

I agree Axe .... and how do you determine that .... by collecting data ..... like a soil test for beginners.

proper cultural practices, build soil structure and a healthy turf, so let's Start there, then our dumping on of NPKs will be more effective, once we determine we can't make a perfect lawn w/out a soil test...

Now, How do I determine these factors???

http://ecomerge.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-soil-aggregates-are-and-how-its.html

I look at it... :)

Sorry Axe ... but you can't determine these factors, with exception to general soil structure, by simply looking at a soil. Even looking at soil structure can only take you so far without data. Just because it "looks" compacted doesn't necessarily mean it is plant limiting. Furthermore, soil structure isn't the end all determination of soil fertility. Once again, you are shooting in the dark.

Smallaxe
07-12-2011, 08:28 AM
What I'm implying is (or, asking, really) ......can't we make UNhealthy grass look good, temporarily?

I'm asking if this is the best thing for the turf? You can add excessive water/N&Fe and put the proverbial lipstick on the pig. No?

Thanks.

Excessive water/N&Fe is the biggest mistake that is commonly made on lawns... The healthiest turf has deep roots and great soil to live in... Overwatering and overfertilizing kills both of those qualities...

As long as you're returning the clippings, cool season grasses can be 'healthy' in a decent soil without any fertilizer whatsoever... it is the dark green color that we fertilize for...

Smallaxe
07-12-2011, 08:48 AM
I agree Axe .... and how do you determine that .... by collecting data ..... like a soil test for beginners.



Sorry Axe ... but you can't determine these factors, with exception to general soil structure, by simply looking at a soil. Even looking at soil structure can only take you so far without data. Just because it "looks" compacted doesn't necessarily mean it is plant limiting. Furthermore, soil structure isn't the end all determination of soil fertility. Once again, you are shooting in the dark.

I agree that for beginners that are uncertain about the turf they should get a soil test and get advice... I am tempted to get a soil test in one spot that just doesn't respond like the lawn around it... it is such a small area it makes me thing there is a toxin of some sort and a soil test isn't going to show me that...

As far as shooting in the dark goes, I add winterizer in the fall and when the color fades in May/june I add a little more, unless it is drought during the Spring and early summer... One would have to be pretty far in the dark to not recognize that the color isn't good...

the tricky part is knowing whether it is from a lack of rain... My lawns are low maintainance if there is no irrigation, and only molasses in th heat of summer... no need for a soil test becuz everything is fine...

I know you like to analyse every little detail with lab work, I do fine with looking at the lawn and figuring out what to do next... do you agree that low NPK on a soil test will grow healthy turf as a high NPK on a soil test? (as long as the soil percs and holds water adequately) Don't give me the "too many factors" line... step out on the limb and give a generalized opinion... :)

Kiril
07-12-2011, 09:35 AM
I agree that for beginners that are uncertain about the turf they should get a soil test and get advice... I am tempted to get a soil test in one spot that just doesn't respond like the lawn around it... it is such a small area it makes me thing there is a toxin of some sort and a soil test isn't going to show me that...

As far as shooting in the dark goes, I add winterizer in the fall and when the color fades in May/june I add a little more, unless it is drought during the Spring and early summer... One would have to be pretty far in the dark to not recognize that the color isn't good...

the tricky part is knowing whether it is from a lack of rain... My lawns are low maintainance if there is no irrigation, and only molasses in th heat of summer... no need for a soil test becuz everything is fine...

I know you like to analyse every little detail with lab work, I do fine with looking at the lawn and figuring out what to do next... do you agree that low NPK on a soil test will grow healthy turf as a high NPK on a soil test? (as long as the soil percs and holds water adequately) Don't give me the "too many factors" line... step out on the limb and give a generalized opinion... :)

What is "low"? Low in what type of soil? "Low" in a sandy soil with almost no SOM and low CEC is not comparable to "low" in a clay soil with good levels of SOM and a high CEC. "Low" in a region with high annual precipitation is not comparable to "low" in regions with low annual precipitation. Furthermore, the amount of soil nutrients needed, as is turf quality, are subjective and dependent on other site factors. The fact remains, you cannot manage a soil without knowing what you are trying to manage.

Also, just because the color "fades" doesn't mean you are low in N or Fe. That is another knee jerk assumption most people make, and while it may be true given N is generally most limiting in soils, it doesn't always hold true. For example, a saturated soil could lead to color fade for reason that have nothing to do with N or soil nutrients. Your approach works for a homeowner, not a professional, so maybe you should limit your ideas to the homeowner forum.

Smallaxe
07-13-2011, 08:18 AM
What is "low"? Low in what type of soil? "Low" in a sandy soil with almost no SOM and low CEC is not comparable to "low" in a clay soil with good levels of SOM and a high CEC. "Low" in a region with high annual precipitation is not comparable to "low" in regions with low annual precipitation. Furthermore, the amount of soil nutrients needed, as is turf quality, are subjective and dependent on other site factors. The fact remains, you cannot manage a soil without knowing what you are trying to manage.

Also, just because the color "fades" doesn't mean you are low in N or Fe. That is another knee jerk assumption most people make, and while it may be true given N is generally most limiting in soils, it doesn't always hold true. For example, a saturated soil could lead to color fade for reason that have nothing to do with N or soil nutrients. Your approach works for a homeowner, not a professional, so maybe you should limit your ideas to the homeowner forum.

Yeah, I'm only good enough to take care of my own lawn... Right now the "Pros" have programs... one size fits all 4-7 step programs... "Low" would be 2-3 step programs, by camparison... 'Low' being relative to 'high', in most cases of conversation... :)

Saturated soils causing a change in color!??!! I know... Dry conditions, hot conditions, cold conditions, texture and structure conditions... I know...

Actually I do very well at managing soils, because I do know what I'm managing w/out the unnecessary info of numbers of nutrients...

Grass is an eco-system, not a computer printout...

Kiril
07-13-2011, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I'm only good enough to take care of my own lawn... Right now the "Pros" have programs... one size fits all 4-7 step programs... "Low" would be 2-3 step programs, by camparison... 'Low' being relative to 'high', in most cases of conversation... :)

Saturated soils causing a change in color!??!! I know... Dry conditions, hot conditions, cold conditions, texture and structure conditions... I know...

Actually I do very well at managing soils, because I do know what I'm managing w/out the unnecessary info of numbers of nutrients...

Grass is an eco-system, not a computer printout...

Yea ..... OK Axe ... whatever you say. :rolleyes: