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Efficiency
07-07-2011, 06:53 PM
Just a thought - who or what gives the department of agriculture exclusive right to regulate our businesses? Where does it say they can dictate exactly what we can and cannot do? What happens if we refuse them the right to regulate us? Id imagine Id loose my company license but so what? Do the homeowners care that we are ODA licensed?

vencops
07-07-2011, 07:00 PM
Without a license in my state, I'd have a hard time purchasing RUP's.

And, I'd face fines, if caught applying without the lic..

I sure hope my homeowners care that I'm licensed. But, I think that's a pipe dream, unfortunately.

Think Green
07-07-2011, 08:32 PM
The FIFRA!
http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/lfra.html

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 08:37 PM
And EPA. My vendors would also care as well. They do not operate how normal feed stores, Co-Ops or TSC and LESCO do. The DOA enforces the portion of the label that states"for sale to, use and storage by commercial applicators only". Their interpretation of that is Certified Applicators only. Even if something is not listed as a federal RUP or state RUP.

Ric
07-07-2011, 08:42 PM
.

Do you all know how common this attitude is in the Green Industry????? Rather than me type any more response, just read my signature

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 08:48 PM
Add to that sig how any moron can march into a vendor, buy whatever they wish with no regard for what is printed on the label.

Efficiency
07-07-2011, 08:53 PM
and even with this attitude, Im pretty darn successful, Ric.
I should have guessed the EPA was behind all this. I thought my lib meter worked better...
Maybe we need some libertarians to run government for a bit. That would cut back this bureaucratic bs.

vencops
07-07-2011, 09:22 PM
I figure there's a reason I can't buy C4 over the counter.

Although you'll find me most times in the Libertarian line, I STILL think there are legitimate examples of government protecting citizens from themselves. I especially feel "some" intervention is warranted when the protection of others (from idiots) is concerned.

I am in NO WAY calling anyone here an idiot. I don't know you. I'm just saying "they're out there".

Ric
07-07-2011, 09:44 PM
and even with this attitude, Im pretty darn successful, Ric.
I should have guessed the EPA was behind all this. I thought my lib meter worked better...
Maybe we need some libertarians to run government for a bit. That would cut back this bureaucratic bs.

Efficiency

Al Capone was real successful also.

BTW I recently change my political affiliation to Libertarian. I am socially Liberal and physical conservative which means I believe in the value of the EPA.

greendoctor
07-07-2011, 09:51 PM
I am also Libertarian as well. As such, there is a principle carved in stone about you should be able to do as you wish, however that ends when what you do can directly harm others. Contaminating land or water with pesticides falls under that category. I highly doubt that a Libertarian would condone using 2,4,5-T for lawn weed control or methyl parathion for cockroach control given the hazard to human health as well as the environment by such actions.

jasontimm
07-07-2011, 10:59 PM
Its just another taxation, and more Govt. control. At least most Licensed applicators know a little about what they are doing, i've always believed that commercial guys are not the problem, its Joe Blow home owner who puts down 75 lbs of scotts fertilizer on his 5k lawn every month, thats who needs to be regulated!!!

BTW i know a lot of Joe blow home owners, and i'm just one set of eyes, thats the scarry part.

Ric
07-08-2011, 08:12 AM
Its just another taxation, and more Govt. control. At least most Licensed applicators know a little about what they are doing, i've always believed that commercial guys are not the problem, its Joe Blow home owner who puts down 75 lbs of scotts fertilizer on his 5k lawn every month, thats who needs to be regulated!!!

BTW i know a lot of Joe blow home owners, and i'm just one set of eyes, thats the scarry part.

Jason

Don't forget Agriculture when you start pointing fingers. But the real problem in horticulture is every Tom, Dick and Harry can get a license in most states without any real education and apply any thing they want. You only have to read a few question ask here to realize how uneducated 90 percent of those applying chemicals are. And those are the ones that actually have a license from what ever state they are from. Not unlike Harry home owner the Illegal guys don't have a clue and put down what ever the Home Depot clerk tells them to use.

Recently I had a illegal guy ask me to look at a yard he was treating. Of course he wasn't illegal in his mind because he only put down Aloft twice a year. The grass was dying and He couldn't figure out what his problem was. His problem was the lack of a trained eye and he missed seeing early, middle and late signs of Fungus and insects.

90% of the time you can throw down the standard Fert and Squirt and get away with it. But without the educated Eye you miss the early signs of trouble. That is why people like TG/CL and illegals or uneducated get in trouble.

ANOTHER REASON FOR STRICT LICENSING IS MONEY. I see Northern guys complain all the time about prices. They get their licenses from Cracker Jack Boxes. Here in Florida License are harder to get and you got to study to pass the test. BUT we get 3 time more money for our applications than you do.

It takes at least 3 years to learn enough to be a beginner. It takes 3 life times to be an expert.

jasontimm
07-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Jason

Don't forget Agriculture when you start pointing fingers. But the real problem in horticulture is every Tom, Dick and Harry can get a license in most states without any real education and apply any thing they want. You only have to read a few question ask here to realize how uneducated 90 percent of those applying chemicals are. And those are the ones that actually have a license from what ever state they are from. Not unlike Harry home owner the Illegal guys don't have a clue and put down what ever the Home Depot clerk tells them to use.

Recently I had a illegal guy ask me to look at a yard he was treating. Of course he wasn't illegal in his mind because he only put down Aloft twice a year. The grass was dying and He couldn't figure out what his problem was. His problem was the lack of a trained eye and he missed seeing early, middle and late signs of Fungus and insects.

90% of the time you can throw down the standard Fert and Squirt and get away with it. But without the educated Eye you miss the early signs of trouble. That is why people like TG/CL and illegals or uneducated get in trouble.

ANOTHER REASON FOR STRICT LICENSING IS MONEY. I see Northern guys complain all the time about prices. They get their licenses from Cracker Jack Boxes. Here in Florida License are harder to get and you got to study to pass the test. BUT we get 3 time more money for our applications than you do.

It takes at least 3 years to learn enough to be a beginner. It takes 3 life times to be an expert.

RIC,
The broken record continues, do you really feel that it is necessary to tell everyone one EVERY post that "Here in Florida License are harder to get and you got to study to pass the test." I realize that you have self esteem problems, but there are better ways to deal with it than to come of Lawnsite and try to talk yourself up.

So...if most of us here on lawnsite "got our license from a crackerjack box" and we are a bunch of uneducated applicators, then how is it that so many of us are very successful in this business?

Ric
07-10-2011, 12:10 PM
RIC,
The broken record continues, do you really feel that it is necessary to tell everyone one EVERY post that "Here in Florida License are harder to get and you got to study to pass the test." I realize that you have self esteem problems, but there are better ways to deal with it than to come of Lawnsite and try to talk yourself up.

So...if most of us here on lawnsite "got our license from a crackerjack box" and we are a bunch of uneducated applicators, then how is it that so many of us are very successful in this business?

Jason

Yes I do feel it is necessary to continually tell people to get an education on Pesticides before contaminating Mother earth. If you are intimidated, then study your applicators manual and be part of the cure instead of the problem.


The Tree Hugger Granola Nuts are looking for any reason they can to turn our industry into Canada's socialism. Parks in Canada once lust with Green grass are now weeds. Agriculture must feed the world so Agriculture Chemicals are not going any where and they are a far greater source of chemical contamination. But the Granola Fruits and Nut are looking at the easier target of Horticulture and a bunch of Yard Boy who don't know their A$$ from a hole in the ground.

Stop being Carl Spackler and learn a little more about Grass than the fact it turns green in summer rains.

UfoPilot
07-10-2011, 12:20 PM
I figure there's a reason I can't buy C4 over the counter.

Although you'll find me most times in the Libertarian line, I STILL think there are legitimate examples of government protecting citizens from themselves. I especially feel "some" intervention is warranted when the protection of others (from idiots) is concerned.

I am in NO WAY calling anyone here an idiot. I don't know you. I'm just saying "they're out there".

I see no reason you should not be allowed to buy C4. Why should you have to prove you're not an idiot? There should be, however SEVERE penalties for using it irresponsibly.

Buck_wheat
07-10-2011, 12:20 PM
The industry needs to be regulated and the regulations need to be enforced because there are too many a-holes that believe if a little works then a whole lot more is better, starting with the homeowners. That's why our environment gets poisoned and beneficial agents like DDT, Atrazine are either taken off the market or restricted because people like YOU probably don't read the labels and follow directions... gangsta.

DLCS
07-10-2011, 01:34 PM
Case in point. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day. he brought up japanese beetles and how he discovered them on his trees already. He said he had a friend in the ag spraying business who hooked him up with some insecticide called Dragon or at least thats what i think he said. Anyway he said its a RUP and that area farmers are spraying their corn with it. His friend told him 1 oz per gallon but he said he did 2 ounces per gallon and laughs jokingly. This is why we are regulated but the problem also lies with homeowners. MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

phasthound
07-10-2011, 01:58 PM
Since jap beetles were first identified at the beginning of the 20th Century just 5 miles from where I live, I find the history of the battle against this pest interesting. Check out this link, even though it says mosquito it's about early efforts to contain the spread of jap beetles.

http://www.mosquito.rutgers.edu/jb.htm

As you can see, Resistance is not futile, it's inevitable.

vencops
07-10-2011, 04:07 PM
I see no reason you should not be allowed to buy C4. Why should you have to prove you're not an idiot?

Because, in both instances (applying RUP's and handling C4) I stand to put the public at-risk.

I have no problems with limited instances where proving I'm (and you're) not an idiot is mandated.

jvanvliet
07-10-2011, 04:52 PM
Since jap beetles were first identified at the beginning of the 20th Century just 5 miles from where I live, I find the history of the battle against this pest interesting. Check out this link, even though it says mosquito it's about early efforts to contain the spread of jap beetles.

http://www.mosquito.rutgers.edu/jb.htm

As you can see, Resistance is not futile, it's inevitable.

Great article... that's why you have to switch you chems on the 2nd app or the 3rd. Resistance is inevitable. Look at the cinch bug problems in S FL, resistant strains have already emerged. Too many morons keep applying the same chems over and over... and then in heavier concentrations.

Indiscriminate use is also a double edged sword. DDT for example saved millions from Malaria, but they used it so indiscriminately it became a pervasive toxin throughout the ecological chain. This ended the use of DDT which ultimately led to the execution of the law of unintended consequences; read the report and look at the graph on the link below:

http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/pest/pest1.html

Germany, I believe the first to ban Atrazine, is currently suffering crop blight from invasive weeds that had previously been controlled by Atrazine. It is still a beneficial chem but has been tarnished by its indiscriminate use.

Regulation, enforcement, lisensing & contuing education are paramount!

And look Dragon's product registration has been suspended; http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00001600160&DIST_NR=000016

jasontimm
07-10-2011, 05:27 PM
Jason

Yes I do feel it is necessary to continually tell people to get an education on Pesticides before contaminating Mother earth. If you are intimidated, then study your applicators manual and be part of the cure instead of the problem.


The Tree Hugger Granola Nuts are looking for any reason they can to turn our industry into Canada's socialism. Parks in Canada once lust with Green grass are now weeds. Agriculture must feed the world so Agriculture Chemicals are not going any where and they are a far greater source of chemical contamination. But the Granola Fruits and Nut are looking at the easier target of Horticulture and a bunch of Yard Boy who don't know their A$$ from a hole in the ground.

Stop being Carl Spackler and learn a little more about Grass than the fact it turns green in summer rains.


RIC-

Why do you assume that no one on here with the exception of yourself has an education in the green industry, what makes you think we here on lawnsite are the problem, has it ever occurred to you that the majority of people here on lawnsite are here to learn different points of view, different ideas, and methods? people ask questions for reassurance, and to learn different points of view. If it agitates you to answer questions then i would suggest that you move on before you have a heart attack.

I know it must be tuff to be an lonely old man thats unable to retire at the age of 70, but dont take it out on the rest of us.

vencops
07-10-2011, 06:00 PM
What's the process to becoming a certified/licensed applicator in FL?

Does anyone know?

I've never heard.

humble1
07-10-2011, 08:35 PM
Just a thought - who or what gives the department of agriculture exclusive right to regulate our businesses? Where does it say they can dictate exactly what we can and cannot do? What happens if we refuse them the right to regulate us? Id imagine Id loose my company license but so what? Do the homeowners care that we are ODA licensed?

heavy fines in MA but also can put you in jail, not sure if they have to date but they can.

Ric
07-10-2011, 10:01 PM
RIC-

Why do you assume that no one on here with the exception of yourself has an education in the green industry, what makes you think we here on lawnsite are the problem, has it ever occurred to you that the majority of people here on lawnsite are here to learn different points of view, different ideas, and methods? people ask questions for reassurance, and to learn different points of view. If it agitates you to answer questions then i would suggest that you move on before you have a heart attack.

I know it must be tuff to be an lonely old man thats unable to retire at the age of 70, but dont take it out on the rest of us.

Jason

What gives to the right to attack me and call me a Lonely old man?? True Hurricane Charlie got my nursery for over 1.2 Million in inventory. While I can not retire in style, I can survive without working. My investments club has several Local Bars. I am in excellent Health and anyone who knows me will tell you I look more 50 than 70. I work more as something to do than because I need to something to eat. BTW Riggles is retired and even more active on Lawnsite now than when he was working. If we stop doing what we have done, our Minds will dry up.

There are many on Lawnsite who know their stuff. But there are also a greater number who don't have a Clue. My signature says it all about the type of Questions asked. There are more Repeat beginning questions than any other kind here on LS.

If you have a problem with me, Put me on Ingore.


Vencop

Florida requires 3 years working as a spray tech before one can sit for what is known as the Hardest Pesticide Test in the Nation. The Test is only give 4 times a Year and Only in Winterhaven Florida with a $ 300 testing fee. There was a test give a few years ago where out of over 200 taking the test NO ONE PASSED. But also remember Florida is the Bug Capital of the USA.

vencops
07-10-2011, 10:15 PM
As I suspected, my question buzzed the tower.