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View Full Version : and i didnt even lowball.....


bobbygedd
10-23-2002, 09:50 AM
got a call from this man who wants to boot his current service, had to laugh. the lawn looked really good, with the exception of the edging on the walkways(corner lot) and the weedwacking around the beds. seems his guys currently are wacking real low, and the edges are brown . and the edging on the walkway looks like hell which is even more noticable on a corner lot, cus there is alot of edging. anyway, this guy says i hate the way they do it, my place looks like crap, and i need a real proffesional, i am currently paying $35 per visit, if u can do it cheaper, ill take u on for 2003 season. i had to laugh, i explained that if he is willing to pay $35 for a crappy job, wouldnt he pay at least the same for a nice job? some people.....

KLMlawn
10-23-2002, 10:00 AM
The hell with paying $35 for a good job ... you should have told him ... "Oh, that will cost ya $40 ..."

scott's turf
10-23-2002, 10:53 AM
That's a good one. He wants a cheaper price for a better job.

SLS
10-23-2002, 11:29 AM
I think I'll try that at my local Mercedes dealer.

"If you can price that Mercedes coupe lower than the Ford Escort down the street...I'll take it!" :laugh:

SIG
10-23-2002, 12:55 PM
Happens every freaking day!!!!! I will even prode people into telling me they are not happy with their current service and they say "Well they only charged 30.00, you want 35.00" So I say why don't you keep them then. Blank Look...O.K. when can you start? "And will you cut on Fridays" Yeah Sure, you and my other 40 customers????

mowngrow
10-23-2002, 03:00 PM
there is no such thing as good and cheap. its either good or its cheap. when will the customers learn

Phishook
10-23-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by SLS
I think I'll try that at my local Mercedes dealer.

"If you can price that Mercedes coupe lower than the Ford Escort down the street...I'll take it!" :laugh:

that's too good.

I'll try it out at the exmark dealer. ...but I can get a dixon for a lot less.:D

cos
10-23-2002, 04:55 PM
Never thought of that one.

"If you are paying "X" amount for a crapy job, then why would you ask me to do it for cheaper?"

I have to use that one next time I get one of "those people" :)

The Lawn Choupique
10-23-2002, 07:22 PM
It would have depended on how long it would have taken to do the job. Had been me, if I could have beaten the price and still made a few dollars, I would have done it for less. Got no problem with it.

Green Pastures
10-23-2002, 07:28 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this guy for real? Or does he just disagree with everybody of any persuasion, any political opinion, any mowing advice just to be disagreeing.

Scott

MOOSE
10-23-2002, 07:50 PM
You should've told him that u weren't out there cutting lawns for MILK & COOKIES.

I always have someone trying to get me to come down on price. And I just tell them you will have more done weekly and a much better job.

They think we don't need to make $$$ that were made of it.

The Lawn Choupique
10-23-2002, 07:52 PM
I was not being disagreeable. Look it this way, if you went to the hair dresser and got an $35 bad hair cut and next time went some where else and got a good hair cut for $28 and it took the same amount of time for both hair dressers to perform their services, would you tell the $28 guy you was going to pay him $40 because he did a better job than the $35 an hour guy? That is all I am saying. If I am lucky enough to come along and do a better job for less and still make money. Well that is the name of the game, is it not?

Green Pastures
10-23-2002, 08:38 PM
No, but I would not tip the bad hair cut guy, and I would tip the good haircut guy. So it ends up being more $$ for the better haircut.......er mowing job. Weren't we talking about mowing grass?

Scott

greenman
10-23-2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by The Lawn Choupique
It would have depended on how long it would have taken to do the job. Had been me, if I could have beaten the price and still made a few dollars, I would have done it for less. Got no problem with it.

Its the guys like you that really hurting this biz. Driving down our wages.:mad:

LAWNGODFATHER
10-23-2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by The Lawn Choupique
I was not being disagreeable. Look it this way, if you went to the hair dresser and got an $35 bad hair cut and next time went some where else and got a good hair cut for $28 and it took the same amount of time for both hair dressers to perform their services, would you tell the $28 guy you was going to pay him $40 because he did a better job than the $35 an hour guy? That is all I am saying. If I am lucky enough to come along and do a better job for less and still make money. Well that is the name of the game, is it not?

Maybe the gal with the $35 hair cut bought the $200 scissors, and the gal for $28 bought her scissors at wal-mart for $15.

GP;Weren't we talking about mowing grass?

Well at least we are talking about cutting. I think he wants to be trimming the "other" bush though.

f350
10-23-2002, 09:55 PM
listen Bobby Boucher {fooseball is the devil } are you really that small minded? i cannot relate to anything you are talking about, i dont cut hair, nor do i work for minimum wage. "If I am lucky enough to come along and do a better job for less and still make money. Well that is the name of the game, is it not?"

i dont know what game you are playing but i dont play that one..

KLMlawn
10-23-2002, 10:37 PM
Bottom line ...........
If the prospective customer was dumb enough to tell you what he was paying for a job he didn't like, then he should be at least willing to pay a bit more for a quality job.
Now, if he does find "Bobby Boucher" or Lawn Choupique, or whomever that is willing to cut his lawn for cheaper ... and maybe even do a good job, then that is the customers gain, not the person mowing the lawn ...
I don't know about everyone else, but I am in this business to GAIN, not give my services away for cheap.

The Lawn Choupique
10-23-2002, 11:39 PM
Do not get upset. I am not ruining anyones business. I am not the competition. I work with a 21" push mower. Which by the way will mow a lawn a lot nicer than all them $10,000 ztr's put together. If you think different, you have not been in the grass game very long. Oh, and the profit is a lot fatter as well. Maybe one day all the grass cutters will get ahead of the curve. It is not good to wait until it is to late as the railway business did. They actually thought that they were in the train business. If you are mowing lawns and think that you are in the lawn care business you will be going the way of the railroads rite quick. I just wonder how many of the $70,000 equipment owners on this site have been cutting grass since the 60's as I have been.

GroundKprs
10-24-2002, 12:16 AM
Sorry, lawn chowpig, I've been cutting lawns since the 50s, mostly with 21" mowers.

And I consider you one of the lowballing, black market economy wastrels in the trade. Since your recent comment about <a href="http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?postid=299702#post299702">not wasting your money on insurance</a>, everything you say on this board pushes you further downhill to me. And probably many other professionals here.

Sorry, Jodi and everybody, I did a :nono: , but this poster is just too obviously a "scrub," dreaming of legitimacy.

MARYLANDMOWER
10-24-2002, 12:26 AM
Come mow my 9 acre Church with a 21" Pushmower! What the hell kinda comment is that anyway???? BTW, I hate the way a lawn looks after the 21" push-mower guy has done it. No offense, but mowing lawns with 21"'s and no insurance IS NOT A BUSINESS!!!

SLS
10-24-2002, 02:09 AM
The Lawn Choupique opines:

"I work with a 21" push mower. Which by the way will mow a lawn a lot nicer than all them $10,000 ztr's put together. If you think different, you have not been in the grass game very long. Oh, and the profit is a lot fatter as well."

So, if I follow your logic correctly, you could increase your 'fat' profit margin even more if you ditched your 21" mower in favor of a sharp pair of scissors...and edged with a nice pair of tweezers.

Darryl G
10-24-2002, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by The Lawn Choupique
It would have depended on how long it would have taken to do the job. Had been me, if I could have beaten the price and still made a few dollars, I would have done it for less. Got no problem with it.

Sorry guys, but I don't see what there is to disagree with here. Did you miss the part about depending on how long it would take to do the job. He is not saying that he would just do it cheaper, it depends.

I'd probably laugh too if someone wanted a job done better and cheaper, but I wouldn't necessarily turn it down. It depends how long it would take me. If it's a lawn that I would normally charge $30 for, then it's a $30 lawn. If I can do it for $5 cheaper and still make what I need to, what's wrong with that. Maybe the competition is not only bad at trimming, but overpriced too? Or, maybe it's in a target neighborhood of mine and I'm willing to chalk up $5 per week as marketing to have my truck parked at a highly visible corner lot, where other potential customers will see it.

When someone asks for help with an estimate on this board, everyone tells them that you can't go by what other people charge, you have to figure out your costs to come up with a price. Then someone suggests doing exactly that (The Lawn Choupique) and you jump all over him.

I'm confused.

crawdad
10-24-2002, 07:30 AM
You folks that get worked up over the Lawn Chopper's posts really crack me up. Hit the little "Search" button below one of his posts, and it will lead you to more of his posts. Pretty humorous, most of them. He's baiting you, and he is a master at it.
Crawdad:laugh:

SLS
10-24-2002, 07:36 AM
crawdad,

Are you saying he's a master baiter??? :laugh:

crawdad
10-24-2002, 07:40 AM
Well, it didn't take you long to put that together, did it? ;)
How's the mowing out yonder in Nashville, here in East TN, Bristol area, it's like springtime again. More rain coming, too!
Crawdad

The Mowerdude
10-24-2002, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by MARYLANDMOWER
Come mow my 9 acre Church.......

Wow, you have a 9 acre church? How big's the yard around it? :D

I couldn't resist.

SLS
10-24-2002, 08:13 AM
crawdad,

We've been getting rain on thursdays and fridays it seems for several weeks. The temps, although nice, have slowed things down a bit but the leaves are starting to come on down.

The frequent rain has made for some good aerating though. Nice 2" and 3" turds... no sweat, no strain! :)

I wonder if The Lawn Choupique would like to do my aerating for, say, $3 per 1000 sq. ft. ?????? He'd make a fat profit...especially if he did it with a 'Garden Claw'! :laugh:

crawdad
10-24-2002, 08:19 AM
yes, nice and cool, good working weather. I'd say Chopper wears golf shoes, and calls that aerating. Mow and aerate, same time, pass the savings on to the customer.
Crawdad

Runner
10-24-2002, 08:36 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by The Lawn Choupique
It would have depended on how long it would have taken to do the job. Had been me, if I could have beaten the price and still made a few dollars, I would have done it for less. Got no problem with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry guys, but I don't see what there is to disagree with here. Did you miss the part about depending on how long it would take to do the job. He is not saying that he would just do it cheaper, it depends.

While we're at it, :D would this mean that if I did it with a 10,000 dollar mower, and did it for X amount, that I should be able to do it much cheaper with a 60,000 dollar mower? :p

The Mowerdude
10-24-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Runner
quote:
While we're at it, :D would this mean that if I did it with a 10,000 dollar mower, and did it for X amount, that I should be able to do it much cheaper with a 60,000 dollar mower? :p

Yes!! Absolutely!! And in fact, you'd be better prepared to make the notes on that $60,000 mower because you'd be making so much money. :D

So here's the plan. If you can make $1.00 per hour, it doesn't take a genius to see that one only needs to work 1 million hours to be a millionaire. I can't see why this is such a difficult concept for the rest of us.:laugh:

bobbygedd
10-24-2002, 10:06 AM
well gee wiz wolly, u know i just hate to start arguments.....anyhow, to tell the truth, with my overhead being as cheap as it is, i probably would have bid at $32, and still made what i needed to make. BUT, since he was kind enough to advise me that he was willing to pay $35 for crap, i wasnt gonna work cheaper. if i am to take someone elses job away, i will do it with salesmanship, and better work, not by lowering the fee. there are entirely too many guys willing to go $25 for that same property, its sickening actually. i dont know how many times i get calls, and people are like, "which one are u? i called about 8 or 9 companies...." . the $25 days are long past, and i see guys with expensive rigs charging just that! they think "they will make it up in volume".NOT!!! more work =more fuel, wear, wages, and so on.

Darryl G
10-24-2002, 10:51 AM
Bobby - The customer probably didn't know he was going to get a crappy job when he hired the other guy for $35. And since he's looking to replace them, he isn't willing to pay $35 for a crappy job. So $32 for a good job should be an easy sale for you.

Brickman
10-24-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by MARYLANDMOWER
Come mow my 9 acre Church with a 21" Pushmower! What the hell kinda comment is that anyway???? BTW, I hate the way a lawn looks after the 21" push-mower guy has done it. No offense, but mowing lawns with 21"'s and no insurance IS NOT A BUSINESS!!!


I would have to agree with Maryland. Also a 21" does not cut better than a ZTR every time. There may be lawns that do, and there may types of grass that do, but not all the time. 21s take too much time.

J&M Lawncare
10-25-2002, 12:57 PM
I had a customer who I charge 25 per cut on a city lot ask me for leaf clean up too. I said 40/hr (takes 25 min to cut) she got all up tight. 40/hr, I don't make that and I'm a nurse.

To which I replied. Sorry, but the hospital charges more than your rate to insuance for over head, and you do drive a mercedes suv and I don't. Remember i have insurance , equip. fuel, employees, taxes to pay.


She settled down after that. She wanted me to do leaves for the same 25. 25 for 25 min. ok not for 1.5/hrs. Then she has been late with 2 payments, don't think I'll be back as I just got paid. Her house is for sale anyway.:blob3: :blob2: :angel:

Gravely_Man
10-25-2002, 03:50 PM
I am not saying the customer was right but you never get what you don't ask for. You need to realize this customer is trying to get more for less. Can you really blame them? Unless you wasted a trip across town to meet with this person smile to yourself and move on. The world is full of people like this.

Gravely_Man

lawnworker
10-25-2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
well gee wiz wolly, u know i just hate to start arguments.....anyhow, to tell the truth, with my overhead being as cheap as it is, i probably would have bid at $32, and still made what i needed to make. BUT, since he was kind enough to advise me that he was willing to pay $35 for crap, i wasnt gonna work cheaper. if i am to take someone elses job away, i will do it with salesmanship, and better work, not by lowering the fee. there are entirely too many guys willing to go $25 for that same property, its sickening actually. i dont know how many times i get calls, and people are like, "which one are u? i called about 8 or 9 companies...." . the $25 days are long past, and i see guys with expensive rigs charging just that! they think "they will make it up in volume".NOT!!! more work =more fuel, wear, wages, and so on.

Bobby, I have gone on alot of estimates like that. I have heard the "which one are you " before. It's hard to find those ones that care about quality over price. One who has called eight people might not even get a price from me-- depends on how I feel that day. A customer like that has know idea what they are doing. Lets all line up and see who can spit the farthest the winner takes the 25.00 yard, no thanks.

The Mowerdude
10-28-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by J&M Lawncare
I had a customer who I charge 25 per cut on a city lot ask me for leaf clean up too. I said 40/hr (takes 25 min to cut) she got all up tight. 40/hr, I don't make that and I'm a nurse.



The next time someone throws this objection in your face, here's your reply:

"Gee, That's funny. I didn't make that much when I was a nurse, either." :D

1MajorTom
10-28-2002, 04:43 PM
Quote: Sorry, Jodi and everybody

I missed your post Jim, or I would have responded a few days ago.
No need to apologize Jim. You're right on.

I've been watching him long before I believe anyone else caught on to his posts. I can't figure out if he is just trolling, or if he really is being serious. I think it's now gotten to the point that most readers here just read his posts for some relaxing humor.:rolleyes:

KerryB
10-29-2002, 09:03 AM
I know exactly what you mean. I had one just the other day. Kept complaining about the terrible job the other LCO was doing, tearing up sprinklers, hedges had not been done just on and on about how sorry they were.
Well I took my time and measured it counted all the hedges listed what needed to be done and priced it at $150.00 per month. This did not include all his hedges. Hedges are seperate.
But I digress. He sees the proposal and the first words out of his mouth were "I only pay $100.00 month and I don't wish to pay any more."
I thought it was all about the poor quality of the work not price.
So after wasting my time I said thanks see ya later.
Just another customer wanting the million dollar look for 50 cents.

scott's turf
10-29-2002, 10:19 AM
I believe that a lawn should be priced flat say $50. If I have a 60" lazer and it takes me 50 min than I get $50/hr but my overhead is higher so I have to make it up on volumn. If a guy just has 21" mowers than he should be charging the same price. Say it takes him 4X as long than he makes $12.5/hr. His overhead is a lot less but now he can only gross around $120/day where the guy with the 60" mower can gross $500/day. You will quickly see that the guy with the 60" mower will make lots more money than the guy with the 21".

greenman
10-29-2002, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by scott's turf
I believe that a lawn should be priced flat say $50. If I have a 60" lazer and it takes me 50 min than I get $50/hr but my overhead is higher so I have to make it up on volumn. If a guy just has 21" mowers than he should be charging the same price. Say it takes him 4X as long than he makes $12.5/hr. His overhead is a lot less but now he can only gross around $120/day where the guy with the 60" mower can gross $500/day. You will quickly see that the guy with the 60" mower will make lots more money than the guy with the 21".

I agree that a person can make a whole lot more money with a ztr than 21". Thats obvious. I disagree about the $50 lawns. There is no way every lawn can be priced at $50. You cannot get $50 for a lawn under 10,000sq. ft. unless it is very difficult to service(lot of triming,edging,slopes,etc.). How can you get $50 for an acre or two and still make a profit? Isn't that called low-balling?
If your over-head is that high, then you should be shooting for $65 per hour.

scott's turf
10-29-2002, 01:16 PM
I shoot for around $60/hr I just was throwing out some numbers. Typically the faster the job can be done the more expensive the equipment is. Therefor one must have many more accounts to cover their larger purchase. Both users should be charging the same amount for the job. I can see where one could make a lot of money in a niche market using just 21" mowers.

greenman
10-29-2002, 01:21 PM
Agreed:)

BAMARED
10-29-2002, 01:45 PM
Bobby,

Don't let stuff like this bother you. This same guy that asked for a cheaper price for a better job has likely done this same exact thing in the past and it worked for him. Understand that we all live in a society where many, many things are negotiable and the only way to find out if you can get what you want is to ask. They figure that the worst thing that could happen is for you to say "no."

But like I said, don't let it bother you at all. Just tell him something like, "I can't do it for that, but I can do you a much better job for $45." And let it be at that. Then he'll realize that he's not dealing w/ an idiot and hopefully start dealing with you in a reasonable manner.


Best of luck out there,

BAMARED