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DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Guys, maybe some of you can relate....

Of the lawns I used Imprelis on this spring, I have only seen one lawn that has potential damage. Thats the good news. This lawn contains around a half dozen white pines, and only one tree of the bunch is showing potential damage. I sprayed this lawn with a PG about 9 weeks ago, at the 4.5 oz/ac rate. Started noticing some leader curling at the very top of the tree a couple weeks ago (25 ft tree). Took a look today again, and the top leaders are still curled and there is a little brown at the very top. The rest of the tree is not showing damage - in other words you have to look straight up to find damage but it is there. Looks nothing like some of the pics some of these guys have put up so far on LS, those are bad. Its really curious why just this one tree is showing poss. damage, and the rest of the white pines are not. Putting a % on it, I would say 70% chance this is from Imprelis though I cannot be certain I have seen a lot of diseased pines too.

My question is this, do I notify the customer right now? My gut says not yet. If I call my customer, then he freaks out, worries about losing the tree, and probably wants me to replace. I am still pretty certain he hasn't even noticed the damage yet (or isn't concerned). I don't see enough damage in this tree yet to say that it is going to keel over (compared to other pics guys have posted).

Tough question, so no better place than LS to ask.....

jasontimm
07-20-2011, 04:33 PM
I'd wait DA, like you said there is a chance that it might not be related, especially with all the odd weather we have had this past month. Keep an eye on it, and hopefuly it will work out of it.

americanlawn
07-20-2011, 05:30 PM
Ditto with jasontimm. I would think the tree will recover, and I would expect new growth (candles) to appear next spring. You may not even need to prune out the dead parts. ISU recommends planting only one type of pine anymore....the eastern white pine (like you described). IMO it is Imprellis damage, and you lucked out. I personally would not recommend using Imprellis anymore until Dupont works out the "bugs".

The two most common problems here with white pines are:

1) Planting them too deep
2) Iron chlorosis due too clay (high pH) soils

But you're talking about a well established 25 foot tree. So you should be okay. Hope your customer understands. Also hope he doesn't expect you to go up top with a ""cherry picker" just to prune out the brown tissue at the top --- Mother Nature will probably take care of that. my 2 cents :waving:

Service 1st Lawn Care
07-20-2011, 05:44 PM
I would wait and see the outcome, between the fall and next spring. With this hot weather make sure your customer is taking the proper care to get the tree through this hot spell. I think his will be OK.

Hope this heat breaks soon were shut down the rest of the week:cry:

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-20-2011, 10:31 PM
I would wait and see the outcome, between the fall and next spring. With this hot weather make sure your customer is taking the proper care to get the tree through this hot spell. I think his will be OK.

Hope this heat breaks soon were shut down the rest of the week:cry:

Would do, but cannot risk tipping him off right now and having him freak out.
The tree will just have to fend for itself, and hope we get some nice rainfall over the next few months. If it really takes a nose dive, at that point I will reassess I guess.

By the way done using Imprelis - dealer took it out of stock. Too bad too, for the wide open areas with tough to kills.

jbturf
07-20-2011, 10:34 PM
something interesting i saw this week, property blanket sprayed with imprellis
in may--
a row of white pines at a customers property, turf abuts the pines,
pines in mulch bed, anyways im checking out the sprinklers
there is one brown spot in the turf, turns out the heads were not
hitting the spot at all-- and its right on the edge of the lawn by the pines,
there is imprellis damage on only one of 10-12 pines in the row,
and its the pine directly next to the brown spot in the turf

Think Green
07-21-2011, 11:41 PM
Doesn't the Imprelis label directly state damage will occur to white pines?
If this label states it.......then i wouldn't touch the stuff.
My customer's lawns here in the South are covered with them if not arborvitae's.
It has been my observation that these trees are shallow rooted and will be subject to herbicide, fertilizer burn when applied to traveling water.

DA,
These white pines..........is there any type of while sap oozing from the base of any of the trees? Are any of the outer needles starting to cast? Any other signs of obvious damage from Diplodia twig blight, phomopsis blight, pine spittle bugs, pine tip borers.??

pieperlc
07-22-2011, 12:01 AM
[QUOTE=Think Green;4102989]Doesn't the Imprelis label directly state damage will occur to white pines?[QUOTE]



Not one word to that effect. At least not on any label I've seen.

The only thing is says is to "use caution under the dripline of trees". My horsepower and escalade 2 labels say the same thing. It does say to leave a 5' buffer if spraying at the 6 oz/acre rate; so I did not leave a 5' buffer as I was spraying at the 4.5 oz/acre rate.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Doesn't the Imprelis label directly state damage will occur to white pines?
If this label states it.......then i wouldn't touch the stuff.
My customer's lawns here in the South are covered with them if not arborvitae's.
It has been my observation that these trees are shallow rooted and will be subject to herbicide, fertilizer burn when applied to traveling water.

DA,
These white pines..........is there any type of while sap oozing from the base of any of the trees? Are any of the outer needles starting to cast? Any other signs of obvious damage from Diplodia twig blight, phomopsis blight, pine spittle bugs, pine tip borers.??

I have not checked the tree for these things. Again, I really do not want to drive up and just inspect that one tree. Homeowner will likely see me, start looking at the tree themselves, and here comes the phone call. I have nothing to hide...but right now the damage is not severe enough to call attention to it purposely.

Think Green
07-22-2011, 05:52 PM
pieper,
I have done some reading into this imprelis problem..........you can google the same as me.
Their is proof that this product is highly a problem on white pines and arbors.
This product is highly mobile in wet areas. The label also advises for the applicator to give written notice to the manager's, homeowner's,etc. when using this product. This product is too much similar to Confront. You cannot discard of the grass clippings into landfills. This tells me that this stuff is way to iffy to use on the residential level. I am convinced that on irrigated lawns and with the onset of rain in the northern areas, this product is not suitable and should be banned.

Think Green
07-22-2011, 08:16 PM
iaturf.blogspot.com/2011/06/imprelis-damage-on-trees.html - Cached



news.msue.msu.edu/news/article/imprelis_herbicide_injury... - Cached

DuPont advises to not apply Imprelis “where Norway spruce or white pine are present, or in close proximity to, the property to be treated.”

Furthermore, DuPont advises, “When applying Imprelis, be careful that no spray treatment, drift or runoff occurs that could make contact with trees, shrubs and other desirable plants, and stay well away from exposed roots and the rootzone of trees and shrubs.” The reported cases from Indiana indicate that this may not be a simple herbicide drift issue, but rather from root uptake. If that is the case, it would be critical to keep applications away from the rootzones of non-target trees and ornaments. As with any pesticide application, always make sure to read and follow label directions.

www.nurserymanagementonline.com/Article.aspx?article_id=... - Cached

I apologize for saying Arborvitae's..............the trees in question is Spruce.

Think Green
07-24-2011, 11:55 AM
One last thing on this subject and I will retire my comment.
Since White Pines and certain Spruce trees being shallow rooted growers and are often growing in lawns or commercials that are overly watered and fertilized........it leads to surface rooting and other issues. Lets not forget about heavy equipment compacting the soils around these certain trees and also the mulch cones. Which ever the case may be....the understanding of these trees and their growth habits still leads me to stay the heck away from this herbicide with these types of trees growing on the site. With all of the trouble being reported.......and refuted because of potential other herbicides being added to the mixture.......they are not assuming any responsibility for this new product. If nothing is done to the contrary to protect the property and its trees............I will not advise anyone to use it. If you do not have any pines or spruce trees on site.........be cautious of other species and shallow rooted ornamentals. It may be the next topic on this site.

Good Luck Guys!!!

garydale
07-29-2011, 11:09 AM
Maryland pesticide reg's require the dept. be notified of any pesticde incident!

I'm sure every other state does as well.

If you have notified your agency , I recommend you do so ASAP.

Otherwise you are inviolation of the law.