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Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 12:26 PM
So here is a question for you guys. I have a feeling the responses will vary so I wanted to see what you guys would do in this circumstance.

You go to give a sod estimate. After visiting with the HO it starts raining before you get everything measured. You do not know it at the time but your measuring wheel sticks and at times instead of getting a measurement of say 15 foot, you get 30 foot because despite hitting the reset button it did not reset. You again did not catch this.

You total your figures and figure you will need 7 pallets of sod to complete the job. You charge $350 per pallet. You inform the HO, he/she accept your bid at $2450.

You go back to paint out the areas to be removed for the sod crew. While looking at it in the daylight you notice it does not look like 7 pallets of work so you go to the truck and break out the wheel again. You will only need 5 pallets of sod including waste and cut outs. The homeowner has already given you a check for 50% of the cost of the bid.

So here is the deal. You can tell the home owner and tell them that their project is going to cost a lot less. You are the hero. They are not regular clients of yours but you will most likely get good word of mouth from them for your good deed, but nothing is guaranteed. If you were short they most likely would of refused to pay for extra sod right! If you tell them that is $750 pure profit out the door on top of the $865 you would make off the other 5 pallets.

Or do you say nothing. You bid the job at $2450 and they accepted. You walk with $1615 profit - they are happy as the lawn is replaced and looks good.


What do you do and Why?:dizzy::dizzy:

KS_Grasscutter
07-24-2011, 12:32 PM
Bill them for 5 instead of 7, let them know of the error. Whatever you do today, you have to sleep with tonight.
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Ric
07-24-2011, 12:59 PM
Mikey

Measure twice and everything is nice.

Similar story only with tree removal after the Hurricane. I gave an estimate of $ 250 to remove 1 fallen Royal Palm and haul it away so the customers and that one pointing to a second one in the back yard. Again I said $ 250. Then he ask about two smaller citrus trees which were very full and I said $ 250 again and the customer assumed it was for each citrus tree not both. As we were cleaning up he came out and gave me a check which I slid in pocket without looking.

Later that day I pulled the check out and saw the amount was $ 1,000 instead of $ 750. I took it back to the customer and explained he had over paid me and the Citrus tree bid was misunderstood by him. He Tipped me $ 100 for being honest but the big issue was his telling the story at the Country Club which really was great word of mouth.

The other side of the coin is if you under measured or bid a job, You eat your mistakes. In the case of sod measurement, one day the customer is going to look at a Property Plot and realize you over charged him and his word of mouth is not in your favor. Remember the TG/CL salesman's favorite trick is to under measure to get a lower price and get the commission because he doesn't have to spray it.

rob7233
07-24-2011, 01:21 PM
> Or you can do this Mike - I need to ask- Who's taking care of the new sod after it's down? Why did the HO lose the lawn in the first place.?

Give the HO the option for refund or cash towards annual maintenace service.

The HO might really appreciate not having to cut/care for the landscape in this heat and not have to pay for it for a while. If he accepts this deal, you can paid some more!

Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 01:26 PM
Is this really a question?
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Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 01:56 PM
Ric makes a great point. The if you came up short on the sod - would not the HO insist that you complete the job for the agreed upon amount? In this case the agreed upon amount was $2450 to repair the front lawn. If the job gets completed to their satisfaction does it matter that less sod was needed?

How would this be different than a applicator charging the client for lawn care....the lawn is weed free....he never needs to spray a post emergent spray....the lawn still looks great anyway...does he need to give a refund on the years service? Was not the agreed upon amount not the agreed upon amount.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 02:04 PM
> Or you can do this Mike - I need to ask- Who's taking care of the new sod after it's down? Why did the HO lose the lawn in the first place.?

Give the HO the option for refund or cash towards annual maintenace service.

The HO might really appreciate not having to cut/care for the landscape in this heat and not have to pay for it for a while. If he accepts this deal, you can paid some more!

Not actually a bad idea Rob. The HO does currently have a service and appears to be happy with him. Property looks in good shape overall...nothing he should be concerned about. The lawn got nailed with cinch bugs...lost the entire back lawn and like I said 5 in the front and in all reality the guy was not doing anything either himself or with a service to prevent damage so it was likely to happen sometime. He is in a neighborhood that I would not mind being in but am not in yet.

Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 02:07 PM
This is different bc you are talking about materials. If you needed 3 more pallets than what you quoted would you not want to get paid for the additional time and materials?? I always charge for what I use. If I quoted 7 pallets and 5 was needed, they get charged for 5.
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Stillwater
07-24-2011, 02:19 PM
This is not a question you should be asking us. This is a question for yourself are you a honest business man or a dishonest businessman. I am a bottom line kinda of guy, if you need to ask or wonder what to do well then......

Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 02:22 PM
This is not a question you should be asking us. This is a question for yourself are you a honest business man or a dishonest businessman. I am a bottom line kinda of guy, if you need to ask or wonder what to do well then......

Exactly.
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JDiepstra
07-24-2011, 02:24 PM
The customer seemed happy with and accepted the price. Split the difference if you wanna be a hero.
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dgw
07-24-2011, 02:41 PM
if you still got the job at the price , make 490 a pallet your new price

Keith
07-24-2011, 04:15 PM
Did you quote them a certain number of pallets and a price per pallet, or a price to do the job? If you told them it was going to take 7 pallets and it only took, I would refund them $700. After the job is finished, and you know for a fact it was only five pallets.

Patriot Services
07-24-2011, 04:18 PM
This is why I got a 100' measuring tape. Wheels can lie. Better to overbid and win than underbid and lose.
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unkownfl
07-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Depends on how you bid it. I don't really give an exact square footage or pallet count unless they're wanting it. I just say to do these areas its going to be x amount. I estimate by the pallet but that's just for me to come up with a figure. I don't understand how your wheel messed up because if it was screwing up then you'd be short. I see you did mention that you forgot to hit reset so that would up the total area. I over charge every measurement I do because I only like to use whole pieces and not keep piecing it together.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:45 PM
This is different bc you are talking about materials. If you needed 3 more pallets than what you quoted would you not want to get paid for the additional time and materials?? I always charge for what I use. If I quoted 7 pallets and 5 was needed, they get charged for 5.
Posted via Mobile Device

Is not the applicator making the same assumption.....they are estimating what it will cost them in material and labor. If they use less material and labor because the lawn is thick and healthy they should give a refund at the end of the year according to your estimate right? Only charge for what you use right. :rolleyes:

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:46 PM
Depends on how you bid it. I don't really give an exact square footage or pallet count unless they're wanting it. I just say to do these areas its going to be x amount. I estimate by the pallet but that's just for me to come up with a figure. I don't understand how your wheel messed up because if it was screwing up then you'd be short. I see you did mention that you forgot to hit reset so that would up the total area. I over charge every measurement I do because I only like to use whole pieces and not keep piecing it together.

My price was given as a estimate to replace the damaged areas in the front lawn and a estimate for the back as well. They could not afford the back and front at this time. The back is another 14 pallets......:):)

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:49 PM
This is not a question you should be asking us. This is a question for yourself are you a honest business man or a dishonest businessman. I am a bottom line kinda of guy, if you need to ask or wonder what to do well then......

You say you are a bottom line kinda of guy.....does that mean you are only concerned with your bottom line?

Is it dishonest to keep this potential extra income because the HO accepted it? Or is it acceptable because I gave a price for the project and they accepted? If you give a price for a project to the customer and it ends up costing you less do you refund them money or do you just consider your profit margins to have increased.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:51 PM
if you still got the job at the price , make 490 a pallet your new price

As tempting as that is we have sod farms that will lay a pallet for .50 a square. I am already pushing the limits in the $350.00 plus range in most cases and it takes a little salesmanship to make them understand why my product is a superior product and they should use it when they can get it installed for $150.00 a pallet cheaper or buy the sod, rent a sod cutter and get some fool to lay it for them for $20 a pallet.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:54 PM
I am amazed at how many of you are so willing to just turnover potential profit. When you mow a lawn and it takes less time than estimated do you offer a price break then too.....don't want to overcharge the client you know.

In return does that client offer to pay you more when your equipment breaks down and you spend 1K at the shop getting everything fixed?

If you get a price break on buying sod in bulk or your dealer throws you a break on delivery charges etc.....do you just pass that savings along to the client because it is the ethical thing to do?

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 04:56 PM
I already know what I have choosen to do....so does Rob.....just interested in seeing the responses I would get here and the thought process behind them. I will fill you guys in later on what went down.

PROCUT1
07-24-2011, 05:11 PM
I think the confusing part is how did you sell it to the customer? If you sold him 7 pallets installed and told him he was getting 7 pallets at x per pallet. Then you owe him the difference. If you gave him a price to sod the lawn and did not tell him a specific amount of material and came under on your own internal calculation. Then you owe him nothing.

When I do cracksealing I bid one of two ways. A flat price to crackseal the lot. Then the material estimate and risk is mine. The customer is paying for the final outcome. Or I bid x number of feet at x per foot and we agree on a number not to go over. In that case if I get the entire lot sealed and it was 1500 ft and he authorized up to 2000 ft. I charge for the 1500 ft.
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Patriot Services
07-24-2011, 05:22 PM
I'm of the same mindset. I bid the job. No breakdown on costs. If I can source materials cheaper after the fact, good for me.
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Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 05:22 PM
Is not the applicator making the same assumption.....they are estimating what it will cost them in material and labor. If they use less material and labor because the lawn is thick and healthy they should give a refund at the end of the year according to your estimate right? Only charge for what you use right. :rolleyes:

Mike I don't get your line of thinking. If you are charging for 7 pallets and using 5, why do you think it's right to charge for 7? Conversely, if you say 7 and need 10, you charge for 10. If I am installing a new landscape and call for 5 trees and only use 4, why would I bill the customer for 5?? If you are asking this question, you know it's the wrong thing to do, maybe you want to justify it.
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Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 05:31 PM
I'm of the same mindset. I bid the job. No breakdown on costs. If I can source materials cheaper after the fact, good for me.
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That's fine, but if you give a cost breakdown and tell someone they are paying for 7 pallets and you give them 5, you need to charge for 5. I don't do an out the door price for a job bc you are stuck with that price when you underbid. If you line itemize, they pay for exactly what is used so if you do underestimate material, you don't eat it.
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Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 05:34 PM
Mike I don't get your line of thinking. If you are charging for 7 pallets and using 5, why do you think it's right to charge for 7? Conversely, if you say 7 and need 10, you charge for 10. If I am installing a new landscape and call for 5 trees and only use 4, why would I bill the customer for 5?? If you are asking this question, you know it's the wrong thing to do, maybe you want to justify it.
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Mike, excuse me if you just gave an out the door price. If that was the case, I wouldn't refund. If you said 7 pallets and charged for 7, you need to refund.
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Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 05:40 PM
I think the confusing part is how did you sell it to the customer? If you sold him 7 pallets installed and told him he was getting 7 pallets at x per pallet. Then you owe him the difference. If you gave him a price to sod the lawn and did not tell him a specific amount of material and came under on your own internal calculation. Then you owe him nothing.

When I do cracksealing I bid one of two ways. A flat price to crackseal the lot. Then the material estimate and risk is mine. The customer is paying for the final outcome. Or I bid x number of feet at x per foot and we agree on a number not to go over. In that case if I get the entire lot sealed and it was 1500 ft and he authorized up to 2000 ft. I charge for the 1500 ft.
Posted via Mobile Device

I sold the customer on quality!!! How do you sell them? :laugh::laugh:

Here is a portion of the email that was sent with the proposal ....this is word for word from the email.


As far as the costs involved, the breakdown is as follows:

To do your front lawn only - You will need 2,500 plus square foot of sod. That requires six and one-half 400 square foot pallets for a proper installation.
The cost of doing the front lawn only would be (6.5) or 7 pallets X $350 per 400 square pallet, or $2450.

So I covered both angles. I informed him of the total cost and the total number of estimated pallets.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 05:42 PM
Mike, excuse me if you just gave an out the door price. If that was the case, I wouldn't refund. If you said 7 pallets and charged for 7, you need to refund.
Posted via Mobile Device

We are on the same line of thinking...but as you see Diamond it gets more complicated as I did also inform him of how many pallets I thought it would take. I went on to give him a price break further in the email if he wanted to do the entire property which would of included 14 or 16 additional pallets dependent on how you look at it. :rolleyes:

JDiepstra
07-24-2011, 05:45 PM
Hooefully you were smart enough to just do the job for the agreed upon price and just continued on with the extra sod in the back yard.
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Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 05:46 PM
We are on the same line of thinking...but as you see Diamond it gets more complicated as I did also inform him of how many pallets I thought it would take. I went on to give him a price break further in the email if he wanted to do the entire property which would of included 14 or 16 additional pallets dependent on how you look at it. :rolleyes:

Well, true, but the $2450 is derived from 6.5 or 7 pallets at $350/pallet. The right thing to do in my book would be to charge for 5. You aren't losing money and it's the right thing(in my book) to do.
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Keith
07-24-2011, 05:47 PM
Based on your wording in the email, I would refund the difference. What you do is your business.

For anyone else reading this, here's your lesson for the day. Never mention numbers of pallets or measurements unless the customer brings it up. Quote the price for the completed work. Offer no more information than you need to.


Edit: Personally I think Michael refunded the money based on the title of the thread. I don't think he would have ever brought it up if he didn't ;)

Ric
07-24-2011, 06:08 PM
Mikey

I made two statements. 1st was the fact I actually went back to the customer and returned the money. The 2nd was how if you under bid the customer still expects the job done for the original price.

You quoted the second statement and went on in other posts to justify keeping the money. So Yes by all means keep the money and buy a big Bag, who am I to question the Ethic of a Yard Boy. After all we are all Drunks and Druggies.

Florida Gardener
07-24-2011, 06:18 PM
Mikey

I made two statements. 1st was the fact I actually went back to the customer and returned the money. The 2nd was how if you under bid the customer still expects the job done for the original price.

You quoted the second statement and went on in other posts to justify keeping the money. So Yes by all means keep the money and buy a big Bag, who am I to question the Ethic of a Yard Boy. After all we are all Drunks and Druggies.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. If you underestimate on an out the door price, you eat it. I would rather refund money(overbid) than eat it(underbid).
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Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 06:27 PM
OK,

So here is how it is going down. I knew what I was going to do as Keith suggested in one of his post before I actually brought it up here after thinking about it long and hard yesterday after discovering the error.

The HO is not home this weekend so I could not notify him in person of the error. This will be done Monday morning.

This is what I know. I know that I am going still make a nice profit from the job. I know that HO will most likely not have any doubt about using me to finish the job in the back when he can afford to do so. I know he is very likely to refer me to others he knows and if it lands me another job it will have been worth it. If he does so my long term profit will be more than triple of what I will make this time. Rob added the possibility of getting him to use my company for maint with a credit...and that will most likely be brought up to to see if I can not get my foot in that particular neighborhood.

This really is a gray area if you would choose it to be so. The only issue I have with it is that I did in fact give the HO the number of pallets which as Keith mentioned in his post. If I had just given the out the door price and nothing else - I would be keeping the cash most likely. However I always give the total number of pallets so the customer if comparing can see apples to apples what they are getting. I have had on more than one occasion given a estimate to have a HO ask me why I was X amount over my competitor in the number of pallets, to which I reply because that is what I feel it is going to take to ensure that we have enough sod to not leave large seams like others might. If we come across horrible pieces we are not forced to use it. Overall I overestimate to ensure a quality install. In these cases I generally get the job so it does work in my favor at times to include the number of pallets.

I just wanted to see what the rest of your lawn turds would do!

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Mikey

I made two statements. 1st was the fact I actually went back to the customer and returned the money. The 2nd was how if you under bid the customer still expects the job done for the original price.

You quoted the second statement and went on in other posts to justify keeping the money. So Yes by all means keep the money and buy a big Bag, who am I to question the Ethic of a Yard Boy. After all we are all Drunks and Druggies.

Ric,

Calm down old man:rolleyes:.....it is not like you have never selectively quoted someones statements on here. I was just poking to have some fun and see what others would do.

PROCUT1
07-24-2011, 07:02 PM
So your selling point is for the customer to compare your bid to others and see that you are proposing to use more sod and therefore justify your price being higher. You then use less sod like your competitor was going to do all along and instead just charge the customer for the extra material that you never used in the first place.

Do I have it right?
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Stillwater
07-24-2011, 08:14 PM
You say you are a bottom line kinda of guy.....does that mean you are only concerned with your bottom line?

Is it dishonest to keep this potential extra income because the HO accepted it? Or is it acceptable because I gave a price for the project and they accepted? If you give a price for a project to the customer and it ends up costing you less do you refund them money or do you just consider your profit margins to have increased.

Mike your like my wife twisting this onto me. Its not going to work hear. I can't answer your deflective questions because their is no context to them. I am not hear to make you feel better about yourself I would try but you are defensive in nature. You asked a question on a open forum and I answered. You are clearly wrestling with this issue and given the strong defensive nature of all your responses it is clear you have already chosen a path. Why do you feel a need to defend your business decisions. you should be beyond this.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 08:21 PM
So your selling point is for the customer to compare your bid to others and see that you are proposing to use more sod and therefore justify your price being higher. You then use less sod like your competitor was going to do all along and instead just charge the customer for the extra material that you never used in the first place.

Do I have it right?
Posted via Mobile Device

Incorrect. You do not understand it correctly. At times I have been asked why my estimate would be one or two pallets more dependent on the size of the job. It is because I truly feel the need for the extra sod. I figure on any given pallet their is easily 10% waste between cut outs needed and just general off color or bad pieces. Get a bad pallet and that number turns into 15%. I make sure I have enough product that the guys can put down quality pieces and they know not to use the crap. This makes them more productive if you ask me anyways as they are not trying to make crap pieces like many others do.

So again to answer your question - I do not intentionally add extra to my estimate to raise the price, I add extra to ensure my guys have enough to complete the job with a quality product. If it works out we have extra...oh well....but it is better to have ensured that I could have extra than to have charged the customer for the bare min I thought I would need and then pieces their lawn together with little scrape pieces knowing that in the FL heat and sun they never stand a chance.

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Mike your like my wife twisting this onto me. Its not going to work hear. I can't answer your deflective questions because their is no context to them. I am not hear to make you feel better about yourself I would try but you are defensive in nature. You asked a question on a open forum and I answered. You are clearly wrestling with this issue and given the strong defensive nature of all your responses it is clear you have already chosen a path. Why do you feel a need to defend your business decisions. you should be beyond this.

Still,

I was attempting to get a rise out of you. No disrespect intended but I think if you follow my post and the last couple you will see I was indeed turning and twisting your words trying to see what other LCO's would do in this situation. NOthing more nothing less, just a little fun.

Stillwater
07-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Incorrect. You do not understand it correctly. At times I have been asked why my estimate would be one or two pallets more dependent on the size of the job. It is because I truly feel the need for the extra sod.

This based on your faulty equipment as outlined in your first post.

PROCUT1
07-24-2011, 08:31 PM
I totally agree with that. When I crackseal a road for a flat rate I do the same thing.

But when I'm charging the customer per pound of crackfiller used. They get charged exactly what I use.

Many times when quoting a flat rate I figure in extra material as a buffer. And if I save it then I make more money.
the customer is paying for the outcome. Not for the amount of material.

Do you see what people are getting at?

2500 and ill sod your front yard. Customer agrees. Amount of material doesn't matter then.

2500 and ill install 7 pallets of sod. Customer agrees. Then you owe them 7 pallets or a credit.

400 and the mechanic will ensure your car will stop when you hit the brakes. Whatever he does or doesn't do, if the car stops, he did his job.

400 to replace front and rear brakes. He only replaces the fronts. Car stops.

Same outcome. Same job done. One way the customer got what they were told for what they paid. The other way they got screwed.
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unkownfl
07-24-2011, 08:51 PM
Simply get two extra pallet cores and take a little off of the 5 pallets to get an even 7 pallets lol...

Landscape Poet
07-24-2011, 10:16 PM
This based on your faulty equipment as outlined in your first post.

Generally not faulty until this time. I am only assuming that the reset button stuck because of the rain. It does take more pressure to reset it now than it did when it was brand new several years ago however I generally get pretty accurate estimates with it. :)

greendoctor
07-25-2011, 02:44 AM
Procut is right. Jobs like this should be priced for the finished product. Not per pallet, hour, sq ft. Want the front lawn sodded? It will cost this. If someone needs a price per pallet, sq ft, hour, it seems like they want to go down to the sod farm themselves, bargain down the price like they are at the Marrakesh Bazaar, and grab Pablo to lay the sod at whatever he costs per hour. I will not be chopped like that ever. Someone going there needs to do as I described. They do not want a pro handling the job. This all goes to some other threads on pricing and high end clients. The good ones do not mind paying as long as they get the sense that everything is under control and they need not lift a finger or worry about anything.

XLS
07-25-2011, 07:58 AM
green doctor said it best!... i hate clients who price shop

OP with the extra money or your original profit,your choice you may want to consider investing in a wheel before your known as the guy who gives back money on jobs.....then some word of mouth client will expect it from you on a job you measured right. just a tip

we would have billed the 7 and when they got home...wheb getting paid in full i would have had 7 pallets on the truck for them to view lol j/k
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Ric
07-25-2011, 08:19 AM
..


THERE ARE TWO FACTORS HERE.

1St. The OP original question of how you handle a mistaken estimate if you over charged by mistake. That is the Ethical Issue originally posed.
IMHO since he caught it before starting the job he should handle it the same as if he under bid the job with the same Mistake. that is go back to the customer and tell them the correct price and hope for the best.


2nd Factor here is HOW DO YOU LIST YOUR BID PRICES. That IMHO is to stay with Industry Standards. Having been in the Sod Business Industry, standard bidding is done by the Number of Pallets or Sq Ft of the Job. Sure we measure wide to CYA But so does a Floor installer because of the nature of the work calls for selvage or waste.


In Edit

I always had more sod than I intended for the job. The left over sod was brought back, first to my holding area and years later to my Nursery. Black Ground Cover stretched across the ground with over head irrigation can hold spread out Sod viable for a month or more with no problems. Having a ready supply of Sod allowed me to do some very profitable SMALL patch jobs without the expense of chasing down materials.

GatorinFla
07-26-2011, 12:35 AM
green doctor said it best!... i hate clients who price shop


They price shop for a reason.........the O.P. describes why that is true.

PROCUT1
07-26-2011, 12:46 AM
Everybody price shops.

Its stupid not to.
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greendoctor
07-26-2011, 02:19 AM
In many cases, it gets the person exactly what they deserve. Nothing offends me more than when I see the following when I get to a client's property and they are price shopping:expensive car, parking pass for the most expensive private golf course in the state, and the parking pass for a private school. In the mean time, they are acting like I am too expensive. Trying to chop a professional gets them Pablo or Ernesto.

greendoctor
07-26-2011, 02:21 AM
Say bid in front of me and they had better have Pablo or Ernesto already lined up.

Florida Gardener
07-26-2011, 09:12 AM
In many cases, it gets the person exactly what they deserve. Nothing offends me more than when I see the following when I get to a client's property and they are price shopping:expensive car, parking pass for the most expensive private golf course in the state, and the parking pass for a private school. In the mean time, they are acting like I am too expensive. Trying to chop a professional gets them Pablo or Ernesto.

I had 2 different people on the same street last year approach me because they wanted me to do work on their property. Both lived in 1M+ homes and acted like hotshots. I was too expensive though compared to the Latinos they went to pick up for the day and paid 8-10/hr. One of the people wanted me to work for 15/hr and the other person actually lied to me and said they used an lco when they actually picked up a guy from the labor pool and had him use their electric trimmers to trim a hedgerow of seagrape. Both of these people acted like big hotshots and they are probably in debt up to their eyes.
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greendoctor
07-27-2011, 04:05 AM
In debt? Not my kind of client anyway. I do not want people to be in debt with me as well. Fact is that profile I described in my previous post usually does not have a dollar to their name at the end of the month and maintaining their landscape to match their home and neighborhood is not a high priority. Correction. There are entire multimillion dollar neighborhoods I do not touch because every one there is like that. They can have the non English speaking yard crews who do not know how to groom zoysia properly or manage the health of the landscape.

Florida Gardener
07-27-2011, 07:02 AM
In debt? Not my kind of client anyway. I do not want people to be in debt with me as well. Fact is that profile I described in my previous post usually does not have a dollar to their name at the end of the month and maintaining their landscape to match their home and neighborhood is not a high priority. Correction. There are entire multimillion dollar neighborhoods I do not touch because every one there is like that. They can have the non English speaking yard crews who do not know how to groom zoysia properly or manage the health of the landscape.

I agree. The best neighborhoods here are the ones that are gated bc nobody can just waltz in the neighborhood and start trying to lowball to get work. It's also usually easy to tell who really has the money bc the ones that do aren't coming off like they do and those are the ones that can and will pay for quality.
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Landscape Poet
08-02-2011, 02:31 PM
So here is the update, homeowner is thrilled with the install and the fact that I over estimated and his cost were much more than expected. He has already stated that he will be calling in September to finish the back lawn which is a additional 14 pallets. Karma is good
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greendoctor
08-02-2011, 03:13 PM
You know a customer is a keeper if he does not get all bent out of shape over an overestimate. Things are not the same for an underestimate where you need to go back and ask for more money.

Landscape Poet
08-02-2011, 09:01 PM
You know a customer is a keeper if he does not get all bent out of shape over an overestimate. Things are not the same for an underestimate where you need to go back and ask for more money.

Yep, Ol boy was not upset at all that his total bill was less that the estimate and neither do I as long as he follows it up with that 14 pallets. It is a win win if you ask me. :dancing:

Will P.C.
08-02-2011, 10:14 PM
I read a bunch of guys talking about just giving the customer the total price.

What kind of crap is this?

greendoctor
08-03-2011, 03:13 AM
If someone does not want a price for the whole job complete, they can buy their own grass and have Juan or Pablo put it down. I do not think you can get a price per brick laid from a mason or per board nailed up from a contractor. Either people want a pro doing the job or they want someone else. This all relates to lowballing, everyone calling themselves a "landscaper" when they do not know beans and fostering this mentality in one's clientele.

Patriot Services
08-03-2011, 08:51 AM
I read a bunch of guys talking about just giving the customer the total price.

What kind of crap is this?

Umm.... the correct way of quoting. Why should the customer benefit from any wholesale discount you get on materials?
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Ric
08-03-2011, 12:01 PM
If someone does not want a price for the whole job complete, they can buy their own grass and have Juan or Pablo put it down. I do not think you can get a price per brick laid from a mason or per board nailed up from a contractor. Either people want a pro doing the job or they want someone else. This all relates to lowballing, everyone calling themselves a "landscaper" when they do not know beans and fostering this mentality in one's clientele.

Green

I have a friend who is a mason. He gets paid by the Brick Laid. He has to lay so many bricks a day to earn a days pay. Doesn't matter how long it takes him.

But I catch your point about pricing work and agree in most cases. But in this case Mickey mismeasured and also quoted a Per Pallet price which is SOP here in Florida. I can show you bids from long time Sod Companies that quote the sq ft of Sod to be installed. This is done for Legal reasons if nothing else. It is hard to hit a guy for a free extra if the Sq Ft Numbers are correct. BTW a typical General Contractor trick

Mikey might not be the quickest wit but hopefully he is smart enough to know his mistake could or would get caught sooner or later.

CkLandscapingOrlando
08-16-2011, 06:21 AM
Well if the question is in fact about a moral contractor then the answer is simple.

If you cannot honestly explain to the client why he should pay a 1000 for 3 pallets that you over measured, then your wrong. If you can however justify it to them honestly(not to us)then your golden.

If your question is can you get away with keeping the money, well that would depend on how the bid was worded.

Spray is better compared to maint than sod. Your spray contract is to maintain the property. Not to put down x amount of product. Just like your maint is to maintain the prop, not provide x amount of cuts. If a yard is to dry, at that point the client is paying for you to know enough not to mow and harm the turf.

On sod your being paid for a one time, definable job. Can you do it, well you can rob a bank. Dont make it right just cause you get away with it

Ric
08-16-2011, 08:50 AM
Well if the question is in fact about a moral contractor then the answer is simple.

If you cannot honestly explain to the client why he should pay a 1000 for 3 pallets that you over measured, then your wrong. If you can however justify it to them honestly(not to us)then your golden.

If your question is can you get away with keeping the money, well that would depend on how the bid was worded.

Spray is better compared to maint than sod. Your spray contract is to maintain the property. Not to put down x amount of product. Just like your maint is to maintain the prop, not provide x amount of cuts. If a yard is to dry, at that point the client is paying for you to know enough not to mow and harm the turf.

On sod your being paid for a one time, definable job. Can you do it, well you can rob a bank. Dont make it right just cause you get away with it



Chuck

Welcome to Florida "the Land of Scam" where silver tongued devils get away will murdering retirees pocket books daily. BTW Many of these Silver Tongued Devils honest believe they are doing the customer right because they don't know any better. Take Chief Scalpem Up who does a fine job mowing the lawn at 1.5 inches every other week at a reduced yearly cost. Or worse yet the Landscape designer/installer with out a clue. It looks great the day it is installed and 6 month later it looks like a jungle.

Patriot Services
08-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Chief Scalpum provide me much wampum this year. Smart paleface village elder retain maintenence services strongly advised by round eye sod trader.
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Florida Gardener
08-16-2011, 09:47 AM
Chuck

Welcome to Florida "the Land of Scam" where silver tongued devils get away will murdering retirees pocket books daily. BTW Many of these Silver Tongued Devils honest believe they are doing the customer right because they don't know any better. Take Chief Scalpem Up who does a fine job mowing the lawn at 1.5 inches every other week at a reduced yearly cost. Or worse yet the Landscape designer/installer with out a clue. It looks great the day it is installed and 6 month later it looks like a jungle.

I see this everyday. Not only does it look like a jungle, but the maintenance to keep it in check is rediculous. Stuff needs to get trimmed every single week to keep it in check, not keep it looking good. Most guys don't know how to design. They take 4-5 of the most commonly used plants and give it to the customer. No thought, creativity,etc.

CkLandscapingOrlando
08-16-2011, 03:25 PM
Hog wash. It's perfectly fair to use 3 times the material needed if they will pay for it. and I love to line my walk ways bougainvillas. You just trim them to keep them 2x2. hahahahahahahahaChuck

Welcome to Florida "the Land of Scam" where silver tongued devils get away will murdering retirees pocket books daily. BTW Many of these Silver Tongued Devils honest believe they are doing the customer right because they don't know any better. Take Chief Scalpem Up who does a fine job mowing the lawn at 1.5 inches every other week at a reduced yearly cost. Or worse yet the Landscape designer/installer with out a clue. It looks great the day it is installed and 6 month later it looks like a jungle.

BPS##
07-18-2012, 07:57 AM
Is this really a question?
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EXACTLY!



I found this thread via a search for some thing else.

How ever consider this before issuing a refund........ Had you under measured in their favor would you be going back and asking for more money????????????????
Guess what they'd tell you............. along the lines of this > :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



In my opinion a bid is a bid. "Tear out and replace sod in entire back yard, $xxxx."
If the customer agreed that its in their budget to pay you x for the job and you signed the contract..... whats the problem in making a few extra coins on the job? This makes up for the days when it doesn't work in your favor.


Let me ask another question.......... Customer calls you for estimate for weekly maintenance. You go to the property and tell them you want $60 for the job. They reply that sounds reasonable.
You are expecting it'll take nearly an hour to do.
But on your first mowing you realize its going to take closer to 30 mins.
Do you go back and adjust the price with them after they agreed that the price seemed reasonable to them?

No.


In a case like the thread starter was asking where you feel you may have over priced the job by mistake rather than offering a refund I'd look around the yard and see if there are any bushes or maybe a tree that could be replaced.
Or maybe added to improve the look.
Tell the customer "you want to give them a thank you gift for choosing your company". They'll be tickled and only the most cynical and/or skeptical will give it a second thought as to WHY you are offering such an item.

Patriot Services
07-18-2012, 09:16 AM
So Mike, did you get those get extra pallets of work the customer said he was going to use you for?
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Landscape Poet
07-18-2012, 07:56 PM
So Mike, did you get those get extra pallets of work the customer said he was going to use you for?
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Actually I have contact with him a few times in which he called mentioned doing it but we have not did it yet. I am thinking he is following my advice for a early fall install instead of the heat of summer like last year.

I am glad this thread was brought back up as a reminder to email him. :)

Patriot Services
07-19-2012, 08:40 PM
I've been pushing all my wishy washy customers to sod now while we are getting regular rain and sod is down with fuel prices.
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