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View Full Version : Solitaire-Nutsedge question


avguy
07-25-2011, 09:38 AM
Anyone know does Solitaire kill the tubers as well as the exposed area of nutsedge?

jfoxtrot9
07-25-2011, 10:56 AM
I use Solitaire for Nutsedge and Crabgrass control. I only spot spray as needed. It works well. If it is damaging the tubers, it may not be completely on all plants because typically I will find more nutsedge on return. It always takes out what I sprayed so I suspect no to complete tuber kill or smaller plants being missed when I spray. Very persistance plant and seemes to be requiring a second or third app. to completely control.

avguy
07-28-2011, 08:05 PM
The reason I asked is I'm trying to manage 2 acres & last year had 2 really really bad areas of nutsedge. Sprayed the max allowed last year of Sedgehammer & while it has come back this year with a vengeance it still is maybe 60% of what I had last year. I did a blanket app with Solitaire a couple weeks ago which worked very well at 1lb/acre. I'm trying to determine whether or not to stay with the Solitaire because it manages much more than just the Sedgehammer or do I do another app of Sedgehammer to get to the tubers. I'm trying to turn 2 acres of "yard" into 2 acres of "lawn". It's definitely a financial commitment as neither product is inexpensive.

americanlawn
07-28-2011, 09:14 PM
I've had the best (permanent) kill with Basagran (bentazon) from BASF.

"Manage" was fairly decent (halosulfulron-methyl - Monsanto), but the next year, nutsedge appeared again in many areas. BTW, "Sledgehammer" is the same thing.

I used "Dismiss" last year cuz a salesman said it was awesome.....but this year, the same properties are getting yellow nutsedge again. So I was not impressed. (FMC, sulfentazone)

Been treating yellow nutsedge for over 30 years, and Basagran still offers the best KILL regarding nutsedge IMO.

I'm tired of playing games with these so called new products that don't work/last. Sometimes it's best to use the tried & true. :cool2:

grassman177
07-28-2011, 10:11 PM
boy does that ring a bell larry, meaning the damages you saw while here from imprelis.

i have never conisdered basagran. please divulge more info. resrictions, cost, etc. i do like sulfentrazone as it does a very good job and does have a decent amount of suppression , and is cheap for the most part especially mixed in surge or q4.

please tell me more on how you use this product.

greendoctor
07-29-2011, 04:06 AM
Halosulfuron works better on Purple Nutsedge, a little weak on Yellow and useless on kyllinga species. For whatever reason, Basagran is extremely effective on Yellow Nutsedge and kyllinga. In my state, Basagran was unheard of except by the people that knew their shizz. It was always halosulfuron for everything. Guess what? Halosulfuron will cause a lawn to shift from Purple Nutsedge to kyllinga. But the unqualified people like the fact that it comes in 0.9 gram dose packages that will make 1 gallon of finished solution.

Basagran is a pretty economical product. Costs around $120 a gallon. Applied at 1 Quart per acre at the following parameters:spray volume 20-40 gallons per acre, flat fan tips with at least 40 PSI at the boom, and crop oil or MSO as the surfactant. You are limited to 2 applications per year. One more thing that I find attractive about this product is how friendly it is to surrounding vegetation. Most trees and shrubs are not permanently damaged or killed by small amounts of drift. Anything "sulfuron" or sulfentrazone can kill or permanently damage many shrubs. Try to apply this when there will be warm, sunny weather for the week after application. Under those conditions, it will burn down target weeds within 7 days.

I am not Larry, but I have been using Basagran in turf for almost 20 years myself. My reason for even knowing what it is goes back to the need to treat kyllinga in seashore paspalum. Image and Halosulfuron were the two big sedge herbicides back then. Image is a bad product to apply to seashore paspalum. It will damage it badly. Fast forward to now, the local golf courses are starting to use Basagran to get a handle on the kyllinga that has come up because of constant use of Halosulfuron.

RAlmaroad
07-29-2011, 04:51 AM
Well, a thousand years ago I was using a mix of Atrazine and Basagram as THE ONLY herbicide for warm season turf. Don't try this on fescue!!! This was before Image and all the rest. I still use it sometimes for yellow nutsedge and Kyliinga as Greendoctor mentioned. The only restriction is heat because of the Atrazine. Up to about 85 is the max for it. Wonderful in spring and fall. Yea ole Basagran--R, Last gallon I bought was considerable cheaper--thinking about $49 but that was years ago--but not quite a thousand.

greendoctor
07-29-2011, 05:01 AM
Compared to the one month wait for a "sulfuron" to kill kyllinga, not to mention the mean price tag per acre, Basagran was always attractive. I never had Prompt(bentazon+atrazine) here. No one knew what that was and the DOA did not like the atrazine. Back then, it was MSMA for everything. However MSMA is only a top burn on sedges. Basagran is systemic in susceptible sedges.

jvanvliet
07-29-2011, 06:19 PM
Halosulfuron works better on Purple Nutsedge, a little weak on Yellow and useless on kyllinga species. For whatever reason, Basagran is extremely effective on Yellow Nutsedge and kyllinga. In my state, Basagran was unheard of except by the people that knew their shizz. It was always halosulfuron for everything. Guess what? Halosulfuron will cause a lawn to shift from Purple Nutsedge to kyllinga. But the unqualified people like the fact that it comes in 0.9 gram dose packages that will make 1 gallon of finished solution.

Basagran is a pretty economical product. Costs around $120 a gallon. Applied at 1 Quart per acre at the following parameters:spray volume 20-40 gallons per acre, flat fan tips with at least 40 PSI at the boom, and crop oil or MSO as the surfactant. You are limited to 2 applications per year. One more thing that I find attractive about this product is how friendly it is to surrounding vegetation. Most trees and shrubs are not permanently damaged or killed by small amounts of drift. Anything "sulfuron" or sulfentrazone can kill or permanently damage many shrubs. Try to apply this when there will be warm, sunny weather for the week after application. Under those conditions, it will burn down target weeds within 7 days.

I am not Larry, but I have been using Basagran in turf for almost 20 years myself. My reason for even knowing what it is goes back to the need to treat kyllinga in seashore paspalum. Image and Halosulfuron were the two big sedge herbicides back then. Image is a bad product to apply to seashore paspalum. It will damage it badly. Fast forward to now, the local golf courses are starting to use Basagran to get a handle on the kyllinga that has come up because of constant use of Halosulfuron.

We have primarily St. Augustine variety turfs. How well do you think St Augustine will hold up to Basagran. I assume you see a lot of St. Augustine on the islands.

I've been using Sedge Hammer, but it's an endless battle to manage it down to an accptable level.

I don't think even Saharah will supress the crap.

greendoctor
07-29-2011, 06:41 PM
Basagran by itself is very safe on st augustine. Take note of application requirements and the fact that it does nothing to Purple Nutsedge. As for totally killing sedges and everything else, nothing beats Hyvar X + Oust. Say good bye to trees, and all grasses though. I do believe that usage of Hyvar is limited in certain areas of Florida due to a high water table.

grassman177
07-29-2011, 07:23 PM
so, there are restrictions on use similar to msma on cool seasons huh? that is what i get from your posts about solitaire.

what do you think of blanketing sulfentrazone in a product like surge during summer months(of course not brown or dormant grass) and the effect on trees etc, but not from drift, from root level?

americanlawn
07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Hi buddy -- I sure enjoyed seeing you guys, your business, and the tour you gave me. You certainly have nice accounts and a super nice business.

We received 2 phone calls today from insurance companies asking if we had Imprellis damage. We told 'em we chose not to use it this year. I think the wolves are out, and insurance companies are taking advantage (especially with the osama economy).

I ordered a gallon of Basagran today ($105.00) One quart per acre. My sales rep said the reason I'm seeing repeat yellow nutsedge on lawns that were treated last year is cuz of all the seeds that are in the soil. Not sure if I buy that due to previous (very good) experience with Basagran 20 years ago.

Basagran started out as ag product, but then was introduced for use on nearly all turfgrasses. I'm gunna switch to it next week, add a little LI700 and hope for the best. I hate doing repeat applications, no matter what weed it is.

BTW, a fine (small droplet) spray gives the best (100%) kill . The taller the nutsedhge is when you spray it, the better the kill. my 2 cents

boy does that ring a bell larry, meaning the damages you saw while here from imprelis.

i have never conisdered basagran. please divulge more info. resrictions, cost, etc. i do like sulfentrazone as it does a very good job and does have a decent amount of suppression , and is cheap for the most part especially mixed in surge or q4.

please tell me more on how you use this product.

vencops
07-29-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm applying sedge in the very early AM to a very small (<100SF) area. The yellow nutsedge is very noticably taller than the grass, there. Label says not to mow for 2 days subsequent to applying.

My regular service day for this account is Tuesday. I know this falls within the label directions, but.....would the effect be greater if I didn't mow this area, Tuesday? It's not really an issue NOT to mow, then. Just wondering what your experiences have been.

I know this is a solitaire thread. And, I apologize for the mini hi-jack. I suppose the same question could be asked re: solitaire (though I haven't read that label).

Think Green
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
As a preemerge.........have you southern guys considered Pennant??? Then use Certainty or Dismiss as a post followup??

americanlawn
07-29-2011, 07:56 PM
Sometimes I'll get to a lawn needing nutsedge spray, but they just mowed. I tell them not to mow the nutsedge areas so I can come back in a few days and spray it when it's tall (the taller the better). After spraying, I tell folks not to mow the nutsedge areas for 3 or 4 days after I spray. (they can always mow around it). This gives the product enough time to trans-locate throughout the entire plant (especially the roots).

my 2 cents. Good point post vencops

I'm applying sedge in the very early AM to a very small (<100SF) area. The yellow nutsedge is very noticably taller than the grass, there. Label says not to mow for 2 days subsequent to applying.

My regular service day for this account is Tuesday. I know this falls within the label directions, but.....would the effect be greater if I didn't mow this area, Tuesday? It's not really an issue NOT to mow, then. Just wondering what your experiences have been.

I know this is a solitaire thread. And, I apologize for the mini hi-jack. I suppose the same question could be asked re: solitaire (though I haven't read that label).

vencops
07-29-2011, 08:00 PM
Although it doesn't show up in this photo (this was taken some time ago), this is the area (small strip of grass, adjacent to walk). I can easily just leave this to grow another few days...or for a week.

Thanks.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/SBGobblers/TAGS/DSC03024.jpg

Think Green
07-29-2011, 08:47 PM
Ven,
Those are some massively large beds for such small shrubbery. The pine straw mulch looks awesome though. I like the adage of " A little is more!" but sometimes things look a little out of context.
When I landscape beds of this size..........their is color contrast and terraced sizes of shrubbery to balance the design out.
Not blaming you for anything..................this pic looks nice.

I am sure the grass is suffering from water backfilling. You have bed on the left and a sidewalk on the right. Where is the water to go?? Nutsedge will love this site.

vencops
07-29-2011, 08:56 PM
I took over this estate from the homeowner....lol. Let's just say it's come a long way (I picked up his two next-door neighbors, after they saw the transformation).

What's in the beds is what was in there before I took over (sans two dwarf nandinas I replaced, that had died).

He has a valid reason why he isn't going to spend a LOT on landscaping. This is a second home (not the main reason). He lives full-time in another state. He's signed up for full-service (maint. and apps), though. We're just not going to be adding a lot of plantings.

I agree with your opinion, though.

And this (below) is dead-nuts correct.

I am sure the grass is suffering from water backfilling. You have bed on the left and a sidewalk on the right. Where is the water to go?? Nutsedge will love this site.

Think Green
07-29-2011, 09:04 PM
Looks quite professional!
Just an observation for a strip of grass living in between a edged bed and a sidewalk.
With any sort of rain or irrigation.........the water doesn't appear to have anywhere to really escape. This is a prime site for nutsedge to take over and flourish. That is all.

Oh! This pic was taken back in the spring because of the non leafed tree in the background and the unleaved crape myrtle in the pic. The red maple is some of the first to appear with warm weather.

vencops
07-29-2011, 09:08 PM
Yep (old pic). If it was a current pic (I'll take one, tomorrow), you'd see the nutsedge!

This pic was taken, Tuesday. He does have larger plantings out front.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/SBGobblers/IMG_0212.jpg

jborchel
07-29-2011, 11:26 PM
This will probably be considered a stupid question or idea by a newbie but I'll ask it anyway. Since it is so difficult for these chemicals to get down to the submerged nuts and tubers for a real kill and because Nutsedge tends to grow in small clusters why not inject this chemical six inches down into the ground around the tubers and nuts and in the area of the cluster? I'm thinking of a hypodermic needle like pointed steel tube connected to a high pressure container with a trigger mechanism. Wet the ground to soften it, push in the tube to a depth of 5-6"s and pull the trigger.

Has this been tried before?

Think Green
07-30-2011, 10:10 AM
Because most of these herbicides labeled for postemerge nutsedge control is foliar applied and translocated.

jborchel
07-30-2011, 12:01 PM
But with such limited success why hasn't someone developed a subsurface poison?

avguy
07-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the recommendations! I'm determined to get this stuff arrested one way or another and I'm trying not to go broke in the process.

I can't for the life of me figure out where it's coming from.......:laugh:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/DSC_0304.jpg