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Mark Brown
07-27-2011, 02:14 PM
Problem
My friend has a Kawasaki FH500v motor on a older great dane mower. This spring it had a issue where the cooling fins were very clogged and the motor went into thermal runaway and got very hot and would not run right after that. After reading some posts on this site we found that the plastic parts in governor might have been damaged. Upon cracking open the case it was found that this was the problem, as the plastic and ball bearings were not as they should be, in fact the plastic parts were just black clumps in the bottom of the pan and the bearings were also in the bottom of the pan.

Repair
Replaced the plastic retainer and the 6 bearings that make up the governor, also replaced all gaskets pertained to the repair, all intake gaskets, all throttle linkage and springs and one head that had a bad oil seal and it now runs ok but..

New Problem
Upon starting the mower runs great but the governor will not go back to idle after the throttle is raised. The governor has been adjusted to spec (counter clockwise throttle and governor) and every other way just to try it. The governor arm does not seem to fall back down as it should, if you manually push it down it will idle down and stay that way until it is raised again but it will not do so by itself. We have opened up the motor again to check that the governor is installed correctly and everything is free and installed as to spec. The only thing that was not changed was the governor shaft seal, it weeps a very little but according to some posts we have read here replacing it might not change they minor problem.

Any help or suggestion would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.

piston slapper
07-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Is the gov arm installed too far back on the gov shaft.
There needs to be clearance between the arm and the block.
Sounds like the gov arm is making contact with the block when the engine is running.

dutch1
07-27-2011, 02:38 PM
When you replaced the pan are you sure you got the governor fork turned properly so that it is over the governor cup? Either that or you don't have the governor adjusted properly.

Mark Brown
07-27-2011, 02:40 PM
Is the gov arm installed too far back on the gov shaft.
There needs to be clearance between the arm and the block.
Sounds like the gov arm is making contact with the block when the engine is running.

It is free and to spec (approximately 7 mm (0.3 in)), Thanks.

Mark Brown
07-27-2011, 02:56 PM
When you replaced the pan are you sure you got the governor fork turned properly so that it is over the governor cup? Either that or you don't have the governor adjusted properly.

Seeing that when the motor was opened that the governor was melted, assume we put it together correctly. We do have a PDF of the tech manual

We have it so it it rests/rides against 'C' on the image.

piston slapper
07-27-2011, 03:10 PM
Are you sure that the "A" washer is on the cam?
Also check the thrust (in and out ) play on the gov shaft.
If the shaft is pulled out when adjusted, you may lose your clearance between the block and the gov arm, when the engine is running.

Mark Brown
07-27-2011, 03:16 PM
Are you sure that the "A" washer is on the cam?
Also check the thrust (in and out ) play on the gov shaft.
If the shaft is pulled out when adjusted, you may lose your clearance between the block and the gov arm, when the engine is running.

Funny you should mention that, when we put it together the first time 'A' was installed wrong, it was inside of 'B' snap ring, after correcting this there was no change.

We will check the play on the governor shaft, Thanks

piston slapper
07-27-2011, 03:49 PM
When you replaced the pan are you sure you got the governor fork turned properly so that it is over the governor cup? Either that or you don't have the governor adjusted properly.

You're slippin Dutch.....

Multitasking....Beat you by 2 minutes with a customer on the phone and 1 at the counter..Monsoon season is here.

Mark Brown
08-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Update, have replaced the entire internal and external governor, except the shaft and the spring clips and was reinstalled correctly as per the tech manual. The motor does the same thing as before. Motor starts right up on an idle but as soon as you rev it up the motor revs but will not return to idle unless you pull the governor arm down manually, almost like there is a missing return spring somewhere on the linkage or carburetor. The arm is free and does not bind, drag, or rub anywhere internally or externally. We even lightly sanded the end of the camshaft in case there was a bur on it that we could not see or feel. The adjustments were made as per the tech manual.

We are 100% stumped!

The motor is located at a shop that is only visited once a week or so and is used on a Great Dane mower that is used to maintain the property. We have had the motor from brand new and has been maintained by for the most part, general maintenance, a few heads and other minor issues but has always been a dream to start and use until now. Really do not want to have to buy a new short block but might end up having to unless this issue is solved.

Restrorob
08-24-2011, 09:47 PM
Can I play ?!?!?


With all the carnage you say you found when you opened this thing up, Did you notice a roll pin in the cam gear that's supposed to go into a small hole in cover plate "D" above ?


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Kawasaki/FH/KawiFHGovPin.jpg


Without this pin or the pin not in the cover plate hole, Could cause the governor to react as you describe......


Oh, Some bad newz..... Kawi doesn't offer shortblock engines, Only repair parts or complete engines.

Mark Brown
08-24-2011, 09:56 PM
You are kidding me, there is/was a roll pin between the camshaft and the "D" part (reference the diagram i posted above)? Well if that is so then that is missing as there was none there. Well well have to try and find that part number and also get another base gasket seal. We did not see any mention of this in the tech manual.

Restrorob
08-24-2011, 11:13 PM
It's not listed as a replacement part because it's factory fitted into the cam, I checked the manual for pics as well but they are all at the wrong angle to show it.

Just verify there is a hole in your plate and what appears to be a roll pin broken off in the cam gear before ordering in a new cam, The pic I posted above is from dealer part's lookup showing where the cam pin and plate hole would be.....

Mark Brown
08-24-2011, 11:18 PM
Thanks, will update this thread when we disassemble the the motor for the forth time, lol.

piston slapper
08-25-2011, 10:50 AM
I know its probably OK...But......
Remove and check the carb....Make sure the throttle shaft and the butterfly arent binding.
See if you can wiggle the throttle shaft....Had 1 with a loose butterfly that had the same symptom.

Mark Brown
09-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Can I play ?!?!?


With all the carnage you say you found when you opened this thing up, Did you notice a roll pin in the cam gear that's supposed to go into a small hole in cover plate "D" above ?


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Kawasaki/FH/KawiFHGovPin.jpg


Without this pin or the pin not in the cover plate hole, Could cause the governor to react as you describe......


Oh, Some bad newz..... Kawi doesn't offer shortblock engines, Only repair parts or complete engines.

We received the new $60 camshaft, and there is no roll pin in it and no place for one, now we are stumped again. We have not taken apart the motor again yet so can not check on the original one. Does anyone know the size of this roll-pin so we can get one from a hardware or parts store?

As for short blocks my friend found some on eBay i think, but I have not looked into them, might be re-manufactured or something.

Mark Brown
09-15-2011, 07:55 PM
Pictures, note there is no place for the roll pin in question in any of the plates.

New Camshaft. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20001.JPG)
Governor assembly. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20002.JPG)
Governor assembly. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20003.JPG)
Governor assembly. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20004.JPG)
Governor assembly. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20005.JPG)
Governor assembly. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20006.JPG)
question, we have not removed the original cam, but this we assume is the timing and has nothing to do with our problem if it was messed up or could it? (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawi%20007.JPG)

Restrorob
09-15-2011, 11:09 PM
First Mark, I want to apologize for miss-information......

But I did ask;

Just verify there is a hole in your plate and what appears to be a roll pin broken off in the cam gear before ordering in a new cam

I was going on memory and couldn't remember which model engine I seen the pin in, Therefore I was not positive on this.

To answer your question on the part on the new cam, That's the auto compression release mechanism. It has nothing to do with governor activation.

Can you snap a good close-up pic of the back of the black plastic ball guide ?

Mark Brown
09-18-2011, 08:31 PM
I want to apologize for miss-information.
No need to apologize, you are trying to help us, Thanks!


Can you snap a good close-up pic of the back of the black plastic ball guide ?


Plate, Side View. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawiplate%20003.JPG)

Plate, Bottom View. (http://www.truepcs.com/temp/kawi/Kawiplate%20002.JPG)

The pins are fine and were locked into the cam. We are really stumped.

Just a thought is there some kind or throttle return spring on the carb? Meaning, if the governor is disconnected should there be a spring to bring the throttle down to an idle, as it is there is none and the throttle will float free.

Thanks for your help!

Restrorob
09-18-2011, 10:26 PM
There's no return spring Mark,

Is there any wear marks at all on the governor fork other than the two raised fingers ?

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Kawasaki/KawiGovernorFork.jpg

I did see a fork bent from someone backing over a big stick/limb once.....

Also, Is the throttle link spring between the carb and governor arm in place and not stretched out of shape ?

When it was together and not running...... With the throttle set to wide open, Did you have a fair amount of spring tension on the carb throttle shaft when moving it back to idle with your finger ?

I'm run'n out of ideas here...... :confused:

Mark Brown
09-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Is there any wear marks at all on the governor fork other than the two raised fingers ?

There was no wear, but it was replaced also just in case it was bent when the original bearing spacer melted and things went wonky.



Also, Is the throttle link spring between the carb and governor arm in place and not stretched out of shape ?

When it was together and not running...... With the throttle set to wide open, Did you have a fair amount of spring tension on the carb throttle shaft when moving it back to idle with your finger ?

I'm run'n out of ideas here...... :confused:

I will have to ask Paul my friend and the owner as he is the carb guy, he is the one that set it up, will try and get an answer for this in the next day or so. But I will say this, all springs and linkages were replaced, as far as I can remember. There is not much that is not new, lol.

Mark Brown
09-24-2011, 11:29 PM
Latest update, reassembled the motor a 4th or was it the 5th time and for some reason it works perfectly, still has a few bugs but the governor is working properly. New issues are the following, top speed is not as high as it seems it should be, but we are afraid to touch anything at the moment, also for some reason the motor/charging system is not outputting enough juice to turn on the electric clutch, but we have not really gotten into these new issues yet. No we have no tach and my multimedia was at home. In celebration of the motor running again we took the afternoon off and went out fishing. Thanks all for your help, even though we still have no idea why it was not working and now is.

Mark Brown
09-25-2011, 04:21 PM
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Mark Brown
09-25-2011, 04:23 PM
Update, mower is now 100% operational and back on the job, thanks all!
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