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View Full Version : ProGator SDI sprayer with FieldJet / Boom XTender nozzles


brian10048
08-04-2011, 12:17 PM
Anyone using a ProGator with either the SDI or John Deere sprayer?

I am outfitting mine for large commercial properties and rights-of-way and was curious to see if anyone has been using TeeJet FieldJet nozzles or Hypro Boom XTender nozzles.

Or if you are using similar nozzles on another type of sprayer.

I'm just looking for ideas for mounting locations and any experience you guys might have had setting up and calibrating these nozzles.

Ric
08-04-2011, 01:06 PM
Brian

I have both nozzles, each on a separate boom. I also have the XP BOOMJET right and left side nozzles on a separate set up. I looked at the Boominator nozzles but I have yet to try them.

The Reason I have all 3 types is because I have a used Toro Multi-Pro from a Golf Course that I rebuild. The boom was trash, so I went Boom Less. I am using the sprayer for Fire Ant control or straight Insecticide jobs only at present time. I would like to find more markets for this machine but I fear the Over spray from the Boom Less nozzles. I have my Walker mower set up as a Spread & Spray also. But I have it set up with NO over spray issues what so ever.

I am interested in what ever market you are doing ROW work. I have fooled with Chemical mowing for well over 10 years and have never been able to sell the Idea to Local Government.

I would be more than happy to help you set up and calibrate your sprayer. However I am not typing a book about it on the net. If you PM your phone number and best time to call I will try and walk you though calibration.

gregory
08-04-2011, 08:04 PM
brian heres some advice. when you talk to ric have your pad of paper ready bc the info will be flowing....i know when i call him i get my paper ready to write so i can remember it all....

Ric
08-04-2011, 10:40 PM
brian heres some advice. when you talk to ric have your pad of paper ready bc the info will be flowing....i know when i call him i get my paper ready to write so i can remember it all....

Karl

That because I Baffle you with Bull Crap because I can't Dazzle you with Brilliance.

BShaffer
08-05-2011, 12:19 AM
ric

we have touched on this , but what do you think the limiting factor with local gov. not buying into chem mowing.Poltical? I have thought about this for a few months and can't come to a conclusion. Here one of the local parishes "counties" are currently bidding a contract for 1200 acres to be maintained by cutting 38 times thru out the year. Seems like kind of a no brainer to me.... interested to hear your thoughts. Seeing the pics of your lawn I dont know what I expected but it looked great. Do you chem mow All warm season turfs? ( bermuda, st aug, centipede, bahia)

Also there was a very large ROW contract just put out also. I ll get ya the numbers if I think about it.

greendoctor
08-05-2011, 12:36 AM
The resistance to actual VM versus mowing can actually be political. I know in my state, any usage of herbicides on public areas is met with askance and disapproval. Thinking about this rationally, thanks to the no kill, cut only policy, invasive species are allowed free run of a very delicate ecosystem. I do believe in the saying that "you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet." It does not look pretty when some vines or trees get offed, however the long term consequences of letting them grow are much worse.

It is also a matter of convention as well. People are used to the idea of having to mow an area all the time. I do not sell VM per application, I sell it per year. The area is kept free of noxious and invasive for a 365 day period starting the day I actually apply product. Weed breakthroughs are covered in my per year price and I do make good on this. Even if it means spot treating an area with a hot mix a few months after the initial application.

greendoctor
08-05-2011, 12:42 AM
To answer the OP, I put a Hypro Boom X-Tender nozzle on my spray truck to treat fencelines. I set it up to spray 10 ft in front and 10 foot behind the fence. This is controlled with a Teejet automated controller and powered by a standard Hypro D30 pump. When operated at less than 50 PSI, there is very little drift and the pattern is rather even for a single nozzle. It sure beats how ROW areas are normally done here: Person standing in the back of the truck with a tree gun.

GrasGuru
08-05-2011, 01:39 AM
I'll be looking into equipment such as this for the coming season. In the thread I started a few days ago I was discussing ROW spraying. I believe there is a signifigant market in my area for fencelines, commercial lots, gravel driveways, salvage yards....and the list goes on. I pretty much know how I will market it. The man I spoke about in the earlier thread used a Polaris with a 50 gal tank a boom, JD9.on a reel and a boomless nozzle setup. I am learning as much as I can about it and gathering as much information as I can about it at this time. I'd like to be prepared for bare ground, bermuda release and even chemical mowing by this coming season. I'd like to hear more about everyones opinions on the subject of equipment recommendations for the type operations I mentioned.

Ric
08-05-2011, 09:57 AM
ric

we have touched on this , but what do you think the limiting factor with local gov. not buying into chem mowing.Poltical? I have thought about this for a few months and can't come to a conclusion. Here one of the local parishes "counties" are currently bidding a contract for 1200 acres to be maintained by cutting 38 times thru out the year. Seems like kind of a no brainer to me.... interested to hear your thoughts. Seeing the pics of your lawn I dont know what I expected but it looked great. Do you chem mow All warm season turfs? ( bermuda, st aug, centipede, bahia)

Also there was a very large ROW contract just put out also. I ll get ya the numbers if I think about it.

Shaffer

I think each case can be different but Green Doctor does bring up Tree Huggers which IMHO are killing our industry. I have found two other major stumbling blocks. First is Government wage slaves afraid to they might Rock the boat. This would fall under UNINFORMED decisions and there are few more like that including the Granola fruits & Nuts.

INFORMED decision that blocked me was the fact we have Calcareous Sandy Soil with a pH of 9.5. ROW are sodded with Pensacola Bahia which dies out in a few years because of the pH. The sod is there just long enough for the weeds to take over.

I did a search here for Chemical Mowing and found my first post about it in November of 2001. A successful chemical mowing program is very depend on a MONOSTAND TURF. Each species is effected different by a PGR. Take Primo for example the St A rate is 4.5 to 6 oz per acre. Bermuda is 33 oz per Acre and Bahia is 44 oz per acre. I have been fooling with Chemical Mowing for a long time and I am still not an expert on it.



I'll be looking into equipment such as this for the coming season. In the thread I started a few days ago I was discussing ROW spraying. I believe there is a signifigant market in my area for fencelines, commercial lots, gravel driveways, salvage yards....and the list goes on. I pretty much know how I will market it. The man I spoke about in the earlier thread used a Polaris with a 50 gal tank a boom, JD9.on a reel and a boomless nozzle setup. I am learning as much as I can about it and gathering as much information as I can about it at this time. I'd like to be prepared for bare ground, bermuda release and even chemical mowing by this coming season. I'd like to hear more about everyones opinions on the subject of equipment recommendations for the type operations I mentioned.

GrassGuru

I have dreamed the same dream and even had a few money makers projects killing out weeds. But you are going to have to market this heavy and at a affordable price so John the Janitor doesn't do it after his coffee break.

NEED BUT NO DEMAND. I started a thread about Niche markets but made the point that there are a lot of areas that have a NEED but no DEMAND for services. Industrial storage yards and driveways etc were on that list. I even tried marketing it with Fire Ant Control. There are lot of NEEDS and no DEMAND to pay for that need. But then if the ROW Guy thought that 20 years ago, he would be where he is today. Green Industry is a business and Marketing ones self is the most important thing in Business.



.

GrasGuru
08-05-2011, 05:12 PM
Shaffer

I think each case can be different but Green Doctor does bring up Tree Huggers which IMHO are killing our industry. I have found two other major stumbling blocks. First is Government wage slaves afraid to they might Rock the boat. This would fall under UNINFORMED decisions and there are few more like that including the Granola fruits & Nuts.

INFORMED decision that blocked me was the fact we have Calcareous Sandy Soil with a pH of 9.5. ROW are sodded with Pensacola Bahia which dies out in a few years because of the pH. The sod is there just long enough for the weeds to take over.

I did a search here for Chemical Mowing and found my first post about it in November of 2001. A successful chemical mowing program is very depend on a MONOSTAND TURF. Each species is effected different by a PGR. Take Primo for example the St A rate is 4.5 to 6 oz per acre. Bermuda is 33 oz per Acre and Bahia is 44 oz per acre. I have been fooling with Chemical Mowing for a long time and I am still not an expert on it.





GrassGuru

I have dreamed the same dream and even had a few money makers projects killing out weeds. But you are going to have to market this heavy and at a affordable price so John the Janitor doesn't do it after his coffee break.

NEED BUT NO DEMAND. I started a thread about Niche markets but made the point that there are a lot of areas that have a NEED but no DEMAND for services. Industrial storage yards and driveways etc were on that list. I even tried marketing it with Fire Ant Control. There are lot of NEEDS and no DEMAND to pay for that need. But then if the ROW Guy thought that 20 years ago, he would be where he is today. Green Industry is a business and Marketing ones self is the most important thing in Business.



.

Ric, It will definitely take some initiative, a little shoe leather and some personal selling along with some standard advertising. I will use the salvage yard as an example because it does a great job of nailing my point. He would approach a salvage yard operator and get permission to give a free quote. If eyes popped at the price, he would explain it to them like this. He would tell them that they could get a couple of guys to weed eat between each of the cars and keep everything nice and neat. About the time they got it done(or very soon afterward) it would be time to start it again.Or they could buy "homeowner" herbicide and spray it themselves with substandard results.(short residuals andnecessary touch-ups. Either way,they would be out the labor, time and possibly equipment and/or product to have this done(depending on whether he hired it out or had employees perform the task) and it would be an ongoing "hassle" or they could pay him to spray it, usually twice per year with a "touch up" app in between. The results would be guaranteed, the hassle would be zero for the salvage yard owner and the cost over the course of the year was usually much less. Once he brought things into perspective, he usually got the work. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. He said he could drive up and down rows of cars shooting a JD9 between them then use his boom to broadcast between rows. He said he could knock one out fairly quickly with lasting results when the right equipment and mix was used. I think you're right though. Not many are going to knock down my door to have this done, I'm going to have to knock down theirs.

Ric
08-05-2011, 08:24 PM
Ric, It will definitely take some initiative, a little shoe leather and some personal selling along with some standard advertising. I will use the salvage yard as an example because it does a great job of nailing my point. He would approach a salvage yard operator and get permission to give a free quote. If eyes popped at the price, he would explain it to them like this. He would tell them that they could get a couple of guys to weed eat between each of the cars and keep everything nice and neat. About the time they got it done(or very soon afterward) it would be time to start it again.Or they could buy "homeowner" herbicide and spray it themselves with substandard results.(short residuals andnecessary touch-ups. Either way,they would be out the labor, time and possibly equipment and/or product to have this done(depending on whether he hired it out or had employees perform the task) and it would be an ongoing "hassle" or they could pay him to spray it, usually twice per year with a "touch up" app in between. The results would be guaranteed, the hassle would be zero for the salvage yard owner and the cost over the course of the year was usually much less. Once he brought things into perspective, he usually got the work. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. He said he could drive up and down rows of cars shooting a JD9 between them then use his boom to broadcast between rows. He said he could knock one out fairly quickly with lasting results when the right equipment and mix was used. I think you're right though. Not many are going to knock down my door to have this done, I'm going to have to knock down theirs.


Good Luck. I don't mean to shoot you in the foot but that salvage yard owner can buy Glyphosate from Tractor Supply cheaper than you can buy it from Lesco. However sooner or later you will find a few Customer who are willing to pay.


Just this late afternoon I was at a Office Condo complex giving a LCO some friendly advise on a minor problem. Just then I look up and there is my God Son carrying a Homeowner Rid-a-Bug, spraying the outside of his parents Office building. They own the office condo so it was legal for him to treat. Here I have known these people for well over 50 years and our parents were best friends. But the point is they have more money than God and maybe because they pinch every penny instead of paying me to treat.

One of the problems with Niche markets is getting a Demand for the Need. It is easier said than done.

GrasGuru
08-06-2011, 12:19 AM
Good Luck. I don't mean to shoot you in the foot but that salvage yard owner can buy Glyphosate from Tractor Supply cheaper than you can buy it from Lesco. However sooner or later you will find a few Customer who are willing to pay.


Just this late afternoon I was at a Office Condo complex giving a LCO some friendly advise on a minor problem. Just then I look up and there is my God Son carrying a Homeowner Rid-a-Bug, spraying the outside of his parents Office building. They own the office condo so it was legal for him to treat. Here I have known these people for well over 50 years and our parents were best friends. But the point is they have more money than God and maybe because they pinch every penny instead of paying me to treat.

One of the problems with Niche markets is getting a Demand for the Need. It is easier said than done.

Yea, while he's at tractor supply, he'll need to go ahead and buy that $250 25 gal ATV sprayer with a wand and spend all day spraying it(unless of course he wants to use a backpack or even worse, a handcan) not to mention paying the employee who could be doing something to make him money instead of spraying straight Glyphosate that will last him 5-6 wks at best. 2 apps per year and one touch up and this guy guaranteed "bare ground" for an entire season.

I'm not saying there aren't some hurdles to overcome. Sometimes what makes the sale is how you word the Sales Pitch.

By the way, being the detail oriented person that I am, I noticed that the fella I met with used a product called Glyphostar even though he worked for Monsanto for years. He bought it in 275gal totes and had several in his shop. Said he used 2000gals on just one of his accounts. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. It showed me that Glyphos is Glyphos. I knew this already and never buy Lesco's overpriced "Prosecutor". I'm pushing it if I use 30 gals per year of Glyphos at this point. That may change.

greendoctor
08-06-2011, 01:13 AM
That is how I sell this kind of weed control. How do you want it? A weed eater every month, RoundUp every 6 weeks or I kill everything and keep it dead for the year? If I kill it, it is no longer your problem. You are free to go about your business, which is probably go nothing to do with trying to manage vegetation. Put it in those terms and it is not a hard sell. Weed eaters or RoundUp add up over a 12 month period. Even in my state, where everything is ultra expensive, a couple of sprayings does not cost more than having to deal with it every month. Use the right chemicals and things are dead for the year.

Ric
08-06-2011, 07:57 AM
Yea, while he's at tractor supply, he'll need to go ahead and buy that $250 25 gal ATV sprayer with a wand and spend all day spraying it(unless of course he wants to use a backpack or even worse, a handcan) not to mention paying the employee who could be doing something to make him money instead of spraying straight Glyphosate that will last him 5-6 wks at best. 2 apps per year and one touch up and this guy guaranteed "bare ground" for an entire season.

I'm not saying there aren't some hurdles to overcome. Sometimes what makes the sale is how you word the Sales Pitch.

By the way, being the detail oriented person that I am, I noticed that the fella I met with used a product called Glyphostar even though he worked for Monsanto for years. He bought it in 275gal totes and had several in his shop. Said he used 2000gals on just one of his accounts. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. It showed me that Glyphos is Glyphos. I knew this already and never buy Lesco's overpriced "Prosecutor". I'm pushing it if I use 30 gals per year of Glyphos at this point. That may change.

Guru

I am not saying it is an impossible market, But in these economic times it is a tough market. Just watch TV for a few hours every night and see the multiply advertisement directed at homeowner/unlicensed commercial concerns. To me it is a lot of BS but once a year bug treatment and Roundup kills the roots dead are common ads. These ads make is sound like any idiot can do the work. This goes back to my God Son who is mentally handicapped and was outside doing a perimeter spray last night after business hour. His father was treating inside. The thinking is that John the Janitor can step out side after sweeping the floor and sweep the parking lot with Roundup and he doesn't have to be a rocket scientist.

BTW Glyphostar and Aquastar are in fact generic products MADE BY MONSANTO. Monsanto no longer packages any 41% glyphosate products under the name ROUNDUP. But they still made a ton of 41% and sell it as a generic. Long story about how Monsanto bought up a bunch of smaller chemical manufactures who were making Glyphosate. you have to remember Glyphosate is the most widely used and financial successful pesticide ever made. Let me also add that I buy a product called GLYPHOSATE PRO 4 which in fact is made by Monsanto and is Roundup Original 41% formulation. I pay $ 14.00 a gallon for it but can buy Chinese made junk for $ 9.00 a gallon. The Chinese junk works OK for non select kill but I am using it for chemical mowing and want a more consistent or quality product.

Ric
08-06-2011, 09:43 AM
That is how I sell this kind of weed control. How do you want it? A weed eater every month, RoundUp every 6 weeks or I kill everything and keep it dead for the year? If I kill it, it is no longer your problem. You are free to go about your business, which is probably go nothing to do with trying to manage vegetation. Put it in those terms and it is not a hard sell. Weed eaters or RoundUp add up over a 12 month period. Even in my state, where everything is ultra expensive, a couple of sprayings does not cost more than having to deal with it every month. Use the right chemicals and things are dead for the year.

Green

Hopefully you don't have Fire Ants or any thing like them. But here in the South, Fires Ants and Weeds are two major concerns when it comes to pest control. I suggest a package deal to these Industrial areas. While weeds are a PITA Fire Ants could actually kill you, but more likely just sting the hell out of you.

Also people should remember REPEAT sales calls have a better chance of closing.

In Edit

I really don't have the desire to go out and knock on doors. Maybe I am at my comfort level is the reason. But I would be happy to make one heck of a deal to some one who would like to try it under my license. Or Course everthing would have to be done totally legal. No Rent a License.

ted putnam
08-06-2011, 03:38 PM
There is an interesting article on the results of a comparison of about 5 different boomless nozzles and how the perform using contact vs. systemic herbicides.

www.techlinenews.org

Look for something to do with ATV boomless nozzle comparison.

greendoctor
08-06-2011, 03:50 PM
Thank goodness no problems with fire ants, at least not in industrial areas. Ants are more of a problem in lawns and sports fields. But the variety here is easily controlled with baits. I am glad that no one sprays. A "thrin" down an ant mound will just make them move.

I have a very good relationship with my Agrium branch. I get good leads from them when someone walks in wanting to buy state regulated products such as 2,4-D, Pramitol or Velpar because that is what they used to buy from a feed store back on the continent.:nono: They are promptly told that those products are for sale to and use by certified applicators only and to give me a call. Forget the idea of RoundUp or cheap generic glyphosate. The reason why they are even asking for the regulated stuff is that glyphosate is not killing everything.

Ric
08-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Ted


Your Link sounds great but doesn't work.

Green

Fire Ants are super easy to control by blanket sprays with pyrethrin. I will agree Thrins are not as effective on other Ant species. Diazinon was the Ant 007.

But the more I think about this thread or Market Idea, the more I think it will work. But throw in a few more services because the more you tell the more you sell. You have to think outside the normal Yard Boy box of Fert & Squirt. Aquatic license is easy to get here in Florida and we have tons of Detention and retention ponds etc. They become turtle and snake habitat and can be dangerous. BTW as part of my Nuisances Wild Life license I have Water moccasins traps. Then there my speciality of Chemical mowing. Of course the other thing I am working on is Mow-able ground cover for those really hard to mow places. Perennial Peanuts are becoming more and more popular here in Florida as a replacement for grass. I am Cloning Perennial Peanuts and a few other shady tolerant varieties already and if I can sell them I plan on putting up a larger Mist house.

ted putnam
08-06-2011, 11:33 PM
[QUOTE=Ric;4120842]Ted


Your Link sounds great but doesn't work.


Sorry Ric, I'm no good at posting links. If you will Google 4 words. techline news boomless nozzle. It will be the first article at the top of the page

greendoctor
08-07-2011, 03:17 AM
Ted, found it. Very good information. I am glad that the nozzle I chose for boomless applications was rated very high. No problems getting a mix of diquat, Garlon and Sahara followed by RoundUp + Oust to destroy everything on a fenceline. That was through the Hypro X-Tender nozzle fed by a D30 pump.

greendoctor
08-07-2011, 03:37 AM
Ric,

For ants, I preferred Baygon or Turcam(bendiocarb). Dursban and diazinon were great as well. Nowadays, I use Amdro or Extinguish Plus for fire ants and sugar based liquid baits for the other kinds of ants.

I hear you on being more than a fert and squirt for lawns. I do ornamental and ground cover maintenance. Mondo grass is a significant part of most high end landscapes here. That plant material has a way of indicating if the caretaker is a clown or not. For one thing, it hates granular fertilizers. Weed control is fairly easy if you know your stuff. Don't know and it quickly can become an overgrown mess. VM is also part of my business. Another good area for me is custom applications in production nurseries. Many operations here are not equipped and educated enough to apply correctly. Complying with the WPS is also a problem for them because they all have hourly labor that they do not want to pay overtime to. I become the neat and clean solution to that problem. I do the application on the weekend when the nursery is closed and will remain closed til Monday. Then there is the issue of proper equipment, the right product and thorough application. In many instances, my fee vs the nursery having to stock the right products and invest in the high pressure spray rig I use is miles apart. Not having to entrust this job to someone who does not know, does not care and probably does not speak English is priceless. I take the PITA out of the whole situation.

Ric
08-07-2011, 09:58 AM
..


Green

I am a semi retired guy who has done the UPSCALE LANDSCAPE thing. Now it is time to try the UTILITY LANDSCAPE thing. Mowable ground covers and Chemical Mowing etc....Margins can be very small on that type work unless you have a system of some kind. I am searching for that secret system.

Call it Kitchen table Dream Talk. That is when you and a friend sit at the kitchen table and design the multimillion dollar business that works perfect with no hang ups until you check the reality factor.



..

Ric
08-07-2011, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=Ric;4120842]Ted


Your Link sounds great but doesn't work.


Sorry Ric, I'm no good at posting links. If you will Google 4 words. techline news boomless nozzle. It will be the first article at the top of the page

Ted

I finally took the time to read your link. I was disappointed to see my XP nozzle was rated so low on contact herbicides. At present I go with Flood jet nozzles which give great coverage but not the width of the XP nozzles. When it comes to herbicides I am more of a boom sprayer guy than boom less. My present boom less sprayer does only insect control, 99% Fire Ant