View Full Version : ZTR v/s ZT Front Mower

Envy Lawn Service
10-28-2002, 12:08 AM
I know mid mounts are more popular these days. But everyone let your opinions fly anyways.

10-28-2002, 12:23 AM
Front mounts have a LOT of a s s -end to swing around, 2 more tires, longer, usually heavier.

While never owning a front mount ZT, I have owned Front MOUNT mowers with steering wheels.

They are not too good at going UP hills, but good at driving DOWN them.

Opposite can be said for ZTR's.

With todays advancements and engine selection on mid mount ZTR's, I see no real advantage in front mounts.

10-28-2002, 01:16 AM
To add to above...

The twin stick ZTR's are not much better than the steering wheel.

More manuverable but same for climbing.

Once you get to mastering the machine you mow with, you can find ways to get it to do many things you never thought of at first.

Ryan Lightning
10-28-2002, 02:02 AM
I ran a Walker on very small residentials for about 500 hours, and the rear swing is not a problem once you learn to drive it. It is a little easyer to to run the 42" Walker on some of the really small lawns, compaired to a 48" walk behind. I have never ran a mid mount, and probally will never need one. I plan on another Walker someday.:D

10-28-2002, 04:18 AM
Like I trying to say above, once you master your main mower, others don't camapre.

On the other hand, me on a 52" Exmark Turf Tracer and you on your Walker, I will be faster due to 10" more.

Now for you guys who think you need a out front to get under tree.

www.flex-deck.com or visit the Flex-Deck forum on Lawnsite.

Once you train your lawns with the mower you use, you will know what get's trimmed and what does not, where your mower will go, and where it wont.

Envy Lawn Service
10-30-2002, 01:16 AM
I thought there would be more people to jump on this thread. Where are the rest of the Walker and Grasshopper owners at???

Let's try to keep this rolling.

Ax Man
10-30-2002, 08:31 AM
I have been down these roads before.
I owned all but the rear steer three wheeler ( but a 20 minute demo let me know that it wasn't for my app.)

Personal preference is Walker and walkbehind for the very steep sidehills.
You know the kind with a retaining wall to fall off of at the bottom or a pond, trees/gravestone etc.

I will in the future add a midmount bak to my quiver for the wide open places, so I don't have to switch decks as often.

Demo Demo Demo

11-01-2002, 09:42 AM
my first was a front mt. it was great but the midmounts are an improvement imho.
my chief complaint was it got stuck too easy. still put dn an excellent cut tho.
i did like the flip up deck.

Envy Lawn Service
11-01-2002, 08:30 PM
I gotta tell ya, I saw a Grasshopper front mower today between jobs. I was on my way by to pick up another set of Gators when I saw a guy mowing with it next door at the new bank.

It was a 700 series with dual tail wheels. This guy was mowing across this bank with it out back. Now when I say bank, I mean BANK!!! I don't even think my equipment would have stayed on it any way I wanted to go. I really wish I had thought to take a pic with the digital because I had it with me today. But I was so amazed I slipped my mind alltogether.

Anyone have one of these Grasshoppers? Or any other equipment that will take on seriously steep terrain?

11-02-2002, 02:15 AM
Can you see the hill in the back ground?

I cut it while wetter than............

Envy Lawn Service
11-02-2002, 02:27 AM
Ok you have me interested now!!!

You cut it with WHAT????

11-02-2002, 02:54 AM

Envy Lawn Service
11-02-2002, 03:12 AM
Hey now, them thar ain't Dixie tars :D

Where'd you get those? do they help on the hills? Dixie Chopper??? I have to admit, that was the last thing I thought you'd say. They just look awkward and off balance to me. Shows what I know :confused:

It seems I asked you the same question before about a steep stripped hill you posted before. I couldn't remember what you said. But I thought it was done with an Exmark or Exmark walkbehind. My memory is not so good these days :blush:

The dang shame of this is there is no Dixie dealers around:(

So let me ask you this, what do you think it is about the design that allows it to handle so well??? Maybe I can find those traits in another name brand.

11-02-2002, 03:25 AM
I could have used a Lazer as I did 2 weeks prior while it was wet also, but those mowers were out with different crews.

The design, traction, and center of gravity is low plus tire tread design has a lot to do with it, hence the no turf boss II's. Them there tires (extra set of Exmark Lazer tires) on the DC hold like a spider.

There is one part of that hill no matter what I use it slips a bit.

Envy Lawn Service
11-02-2002, 03:52 AM
Kewl!!! But now you've opened up a can of worms here with me!

As i've looked at several different brands, I started thinking....
wider, lower...bigger is better

Now with that thought in my mind...the machine that seems to "look" the best for all of that is Great Dane's 61" Chariot. That thing looks low and wide. But, one of the dealers here carries both Great Dane and Grasshopper. Now he swears that the Chariot cannot "hang" with the Grasshopper mid mounts on hills.

Now this is the strange part....I can get the Grasshopper he's showing me for a grand less. Even though I thought at 1st all the jibber jabber was just a sales pitch, now I find tha hard to justify. So now I ask myself...is this truth or is there some other incentive to selling the Grasshopper??? :confused:

Well, I should get to see what the Grasshopper mid mount is made of in a few more days. He's expecting a shipment of 2003's very soon and I am lined up for a demo!

11-02-2002, 02:07 PM
A few weeks back I watched a crew of three guys mowing in a cemetery. All were aboard Grasshopper 721D's that sported front mount decks. What really took my fancy was that they were on at least a 30 degree grade, mowing around tombstones, with dew-soaked grass! I'd like to take my angle-dangle finder out there just to see how steep of terrain they were mowin' on! Of course they were not flying around the stones, but they most certainly were going about it in a very productive manner. There are some sections in that cemetery that I'm certain the only way to cut the grass is with a line trimmer. Now, how in the world they were ever able to dig them graves, I'll never know!
Anyone have much experience to say about these rigs? I'm sure they have a hefty price tag on them… being they're powered with that Kubota engine. I wonder how well the mid-mounts would perform in comparrison?

11-02-2002, 10:18 PM
Demo a Lazer Z eps in a 60" I picked up one of those a few months ago, thing is a hauss, I would put that thing up agianst 2 60" front mount scag riders.

Envy Lawn Service
11-03-2002, 09:48 PM

I caught one of these front mounts on closeout for $6,500. It wasn't a diesel though. The Grasshopper dealer I'm working with for the mid-mount demo has a used diesel front mount. It's a big kubota diesel with the big collection thing on it. When I go back, I plan to question him about the front mounts.

The one I saw on closeout was sitting next to a big 62"Toro Z-Master. There wasn't a lot of difference in overall lenght. But I do suppose ti would be a little less manuverable on inside corners and such since it drives with that extra length on the rear swinging around like a forklift.

As for the mid-mounts, this dealer swears they handle hills better than anything he's seen. He says Great Dane isn't even in the same league with it as far as hilling goes and he's used both.


As far as the 60" Lazer. I've looked at them and I'm considering it as well. I'm thinking the wider the ZTR v/s lenght and center of gravity, the more leverage it has to stay on hills. But that may not be the case at all. From the looks of some all I've looked at, the 61" chariot looks wider and lower than anything and this dealer says it won't hang with a smaller Grasshopper mid-mount.

When looking at this 60" Lazer, I talked with a guy who had his pulled from the lake a while back! The front end turned downhill and that was all she wrote! No stopping it once it got started down! Right into the lake it went!

But I'm not going to judge the Lazer from that because I didn't see the site. My beef with Lazers is the cost. Locally a 52" HP will run you $6,800. Farther away I can get the full size 60" Lazer for the same price. But I realized after leaving that the guy's stock is several model years old. It doesn't even have the foot assist on the deck lift. I picked up an old 2000 model year brochure and they had foot assist then. So it has to be atleast a '99 model or older?

11-03-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
But I realized after leaving that the guy's stock is several model years old. It doesn't even have the foot assist on the deck lift. I picked up an old 2000 model year brochure and they had foot assist then. So it has to be atleast a '99 model or older?
I will tell you from my experiance, that once any mower looses control that's all she wrote.

From front mount Grasshopper-Cushman, to mid mount ZTR's to WB's.

Now in '99 the '00 model EPS had the foot assist and the standard hor engines started seeing them late that model year, but it is unlikely to find any still.

Envy Lawn Service
11-04-2002, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
Now in '99 the '00 model EPS had the foot assist and the standard hor engines started seeing them late that model year, but it is unlikely to find any still.

OK I see what you are saying there. I just saw a pic of the lazer w/foot assist and went from that. I didn't take time to get more into it. Now I see a pic of the EPS w/foot assit and a pic of the standard Lazer without it.

So it's possible that the standard 60" Lazers that I looked at could be newer than I thought. But it can't be a 2002 model for sure because they came standard w/foot assist.

We had this conversation before and I think you said it was a few years old :confused:

11-04-2002, 02:17 AM
I demoed a SCAG front mount rider once, the dealer let me mow with it, I didnt like it. Knew it was not for me. I fell in love with the ZTR really quick though!

The ZTR's can cut and weave better than the front mount, I know because I mow a cemetery as well (small one) and I can weave in and out of headstones at nearly full speed ahead.

I just wrote this out without reading all of the long posts, so if this one seems a little off from the others, sorry!


11-04-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
So it's possible that the standard 60" Lazers that I looked at could be newer than I thought. But it can't be a 2002 model for sure because they came standard w/foot assist.

I belive the 2001 model year it was intergated and standard equipment on the full size Lazers.

I would bet that it aint no 2002 for sure.

Put it this way, it will come with a full warrenty.

Envy Lawn Service
11-04-2002, 10:59 PM
I blabbed a little back and forth with the folks over at eXmark. It has been identified as a late 2001 model.

If I go eXmark, that's hard to beat from what I've seen. A lazer Z HP 52" will cost you the $6,800 around here. I may as well get the bigger machine for the money if I can use it.

11-04-2002, 11:36 PM
LGF - Post that pic you have of your 52" eXmark WB with the Flex-Deck striping pattern in your yard where it has some sunlight and shaded areas again - it would show that you can strip and mow under trees, and trim all at the same time with the same mower- Like LGF posted earlier - see www.flex-deck.com to see how many places you can get with the Flex-Deck on your machine.
Thanks, Bradhttp://52X

11-05-2002, 12:03 AM
Here it is Brad.

BTW all green now no more fried spots like in the pic.

Once again the "wavy" lines in a few stripes are from my Perma Green.