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View Full Version : Would you seed now (Maryland)?


Lawn-Scapes
10-28-2002, 06:21 PM
One of my customers called me today and asked me to seed... I explained to him that my cut off date was (around) October 15th and I didn't think it was a good idea at this point in time. I mentioned that the temps were going to be pretty cold this week.

He said that he thinks it'll be okay 'cause the ground is so moist and it feels pretty good (temp wise) out right now. I told him the ground temps needs to stay above 50 degrees. He said "I won't hold you acountable if every seed doesn't germinate.. go ahead and do it".

I feel like calling him back and telling him again it's not a good idea...

It's a $1000.00 job.. What would you do?

P.S. What is the ground temp right now and how fast does it drop? Where can I find this info? What kind of results can be expected.. very low to none? Will the seed sit there and germinate in the spring?

syncom2
10-28-2002, 07:30 PM
Hey, look…
Let's say you do get a week or so of favorable weather conditions that would get your seed germinated. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but from all the so-called experts that I've tuned myself into over the years claim that it is highly unlikely that any new green threaded shoots of a young tender plant would make it past the first cold spell. In other words, it just ain't hardy 'nough at that infantile age to make it to puberty! To go on here, it's strongly suggested that you are able to mow your newly planted grass at least two times before heading into the winter months. Preferably more than two mowings is more along the lines that I've heard mentioned. Soooo anyway, if the customer feller your speakin' of doesn't hold you accountable for the fiasco mess that he would be dealing with by year's end here, it's totally up to you. As for me, even if it's spot seeding that you're speakin' of here, I'd not want to be associated with a (any) project that is doomed for failure right from the get-go. Your peace of mind and reputation is worth far more than what you'd make on this or any lawn care project. If you're his LCO man... don't let him down! In the meantime, investigate and check out all the information you can uncover about late winter seeding. That's the next game that's waiting to be played…
mb

Jimbo
10-28-2002, 11:27 PM
The guy is asking you to do a service and he accepts the full responsibility. If you dont do what he asks its just as bad or worse than not doing it at all in my opinion. It wont hurt anything, and might do fine.

The last re-seeding I did was about 2 weeks ago, and I wouldn't market it now due to the weather (unless I was aerating before hand). It seems like alot of the seed gets down in the aeration holes and does pretty good even late in the season.

Good Luck,
Jim

Customer is the boss...do the job!

Lawn-Scapes
10-29-2002, 07:49 AM
FTR.. I will be aerating also.

Can I get some more opinions.. please

KerryB
10-29-2002, 08:03 AM
I guess the customer is always right lol
I would go ahead and do the job, maybe you will get lucky and it will do ok. If you dont he will get someone else to do it and all his other work as well.
After all you did your part and explained to him why you should not do it this late. That is all you can do. It's his property and his money if he wants to give it away better he gives it to you.

Green Pastures
10-29-2002, 09:59 AM
It's an integrity test. I'd call the guy and tell him to seed now would be wasting his $$. You don't waste your customers $$, and you dont advise them to do things at the wrong time of year. It's bad for your business.

Dont do it man. It's just not right.

Scott

Jimbo
10-29-2002, 10:09 AM
Green Pastures-

He's advising against the service, and the customer can do what he wants with his money. Personally if someone (other than my wife) told me how to spend my money I wouldnt be speaking with that person again. The worst case is that the seed doesnt take, and unless the lawn is in need of major repair the customer probably wont notice even if it doesnt take.

Im sure glad you are not my LCO...At my house Im the boss, and if someone doesnt do what I ask I will find someone else to do it.

Please read this several times so that you can learn from it.

Jim

Guido
10-29-2002, 10:09 AM
IF....... YOU make it VERY clear to him that you would wait until the spring time and that you WILL NOT gurantee proper (or any) growth.

Chances are it will start to grow, but not sure if it will live through winter.

If he still wants to go against your advice, screw it.......go for it.

Money is Money! As long as you did your part to inform him on the subject, like someone else said......."The Customer is ALWAYS right"

Jimbo
10-29-2002, 10:12 AM
I almost forgot. Hurry up Tom times a wasting!

Good Luck,
Jim

syncom2
10-29-2002, 05:21 PM
Some of you guys/gals here on LawnSite just blow me away at times! Of course, not everyone, just those that have the fatal misconception that they're totally alone in the driver's seat of life!
Now I'm gonna try my best to keep this post on subject and hopefully between the lines, but no doubt, it'll be most difficult to say the least. Because you know, I have bitten my "penning tongue" more times than I'd care to 'fess up to! My bucket is nearly full and it's about to have some of its contents slosh out. I write those words knowing that so-called "religion" and/or "religious" issues, as well as political views are personal and can be very opinionated perspectives that one has. So please don't cast stones at me for what I'm about to say or even fail to mention. Like the old adage goes, if the shoe fits, then wear it. If not, then don't worry 'bout it. Be forewarned though… if you choose to read on, you will become responsible for what's been shared. That goes no matter where you tread in life.
With that being said, please allow me to go on and say… no! I can't go there, at least not yet I mustn't. Okay, I'm not officially one of yu'l, yet, at least not on the scale that'll I'll / it'll one day become. But even still, can we all agree that most LCO's have an imperative need for "things" to grow, or our services would not be solicited by others… correct? So then, with the infinite knowledge and wisdom that most LawnSite folks possess - in general, that a LCO has about themselves, who alone has the mastery talent to make "things," such as ordinary green ole grass… survive and/or grow? If it doesn't rain for months on end… and all the water supply in the world has been consumed, can you grow your grass solely on your own merit? Okay, let's say we have plenty of water, but the sun fails to shine for months on end… No, and I don't mean it's just hidden behind some layer of clouds, I'm speakin' of complete blackness blanketing your corner of the world! Do any of you have the ability and can just anyone grow what you like to make money at in cutting? Again, I don't think so! Now please, hang with me, sooner or later I'll try "get" there… okay? What I'm attempting to get nearer to… as in every vocation, there is not a ONE of us that can survive in this industry without someOne working in our behalf… "behind" the scenes ya could say. Call it what you'd like to, but fellers, there is someOne who created us from this dirt that many seem to "think" they can grow their grass in.
So then, by now most all of you will think I'm some "religious" gook that's sitting behind this keyboard. And folks, if that's you, that couldn't be further from the truth! Now if you'd determined to yourself that I've been "blood-bought" by the Creator's Son Himself, you've zeroed me in to the cross hairs of your scope!! And to go on here, 'least you think otherwise of where I'm found on this third rock of His, I'm the most IMPERFECT person that I've ever met in my entire life! You see, in layman's terms it's sorta like there's this never-ending brilliant light source that burns within me… one that endlessly reveals all the "scum" I have about myself… case closed, 'k!?! So then, I say all that to you in hopes that you'll understand why I responded as I earlier did to the subject of this post, the late seeding of grass.
Because without a shadow of doubt I personally know there's a much Higher authoritative figure in life than where mankind finds himself in this pecking order. We each do have some control over our ultimate destiny, and in the meantime, over our walk and some of circumstances in life that we encounter. In other words, if we choose to do what is right by the Creator's given criteria, then there is some immediate rewards for this favorable behavior. And of course, the opposite of that is equally true. But that is not why we each must do what is "good" and "fair" in our dealings and relationships with others. We do what is right because right is simply that, right! What I'm meaning to say is this… and that is, there is blessings galore in store to be freely given away for those that have His purpose in the forefront of your actions. And for those that don't really understand what a blessing can be to them, it can be nearly anything that brings contentment or true peace in their lives! It can be good health, getting extra mileage out of your equipment, spindles that turn quad sets of blades for seasons on end (!!), having someone make you a fantastic deal on a new piece of machinery, you name it for yourself! The list can go on and on. In other words, there is absolutely no way that you could put a monetary value on it all… 'cos a blessing can be so vast and wide! So don't cash your blessing in early 'cos you think shortchangin' someone might make you more profit in the long run!
In our own "justifiable" minds, most everyone is capable of spawning an excusable but transparent means of fluffing over the real truth of a situation or matter. Yes, up to the point where they will distort, twist and dress up the facts at hand… up to the point that'll ultimately have them end up taking money from their clientele's personal store house... and come out the other side of this business transaction feeling they've been fairly upfront, having just met the bare minimum of what could/should have been revealed. But friend, real truth of the matter is… is if you are knowledgeable to the fact that the odds are stacked way waaaaay high and against for your customer to get his money's worth from your rendered services… Annnnd and there's a gray-ish cloud hovering in the air about what the long term benefit(s) and ultimate expectations of this business transaction will become… Annnnd and you proceed to perform the tasks that are asked for and/or are needed, just so you can say that you've been open and have done your part, annnnnd and proceed to take his money… with the ill-bent preconceived notion, thinking you're gonna further your bottom line number by the time it's all said and done, then brother, you are sadly sadly sadly mistaken! If in question of whether or not you're being totally upfront and truthful with a client, then administer to yourself a "litmus" test, have you. Ask yourself this question… If this potential customer was your mother, father, grandparent, or what have you… you know, someone you love, someone you cherish their friendship with, would there be no guilt in going forward with the exchange of funds, in this "for instance," the seeding project? None of us can escape and get around the fact that we all are accountable for what we have knowledge of! Yep, our actions and/or inactions belong to us and us alone! Good or bad, our name is written aaaaall over 'em! Bottom line, there is absolutely no, none, nil substitute for honesty and integrity in one's life, business and practices. Sheer ability will enable a man to go to the top, but it takes a good character to keep him/her there at that level. Character is much easier kept than recovered… now go and ponder that fact! Of what's visible and available to man, you can have all the newest, shiniest, the prettiest grass cuttin' machines that's available on the market scene. But friend, it's all made of temporal "stuff" that sooner or later it'll not stand the good old fashioned test of time. Sooner or later it'll either rust, rot or decay itself back into the ground that it's presently sittin' on. What you're made of inside your inner being, you'll take to your grave. And like it or not, that's where the accountability issue will be justly reckoned with. Simply put… To much that is given, much will be required…

Try as you wish to separate those "church and state" issues in your heart, mind and soul. If you think you're able to separate "photosynthesis and the Creator" in your business, by any means whatsoever, all I can say to you is you're a man of quicksand faith! A faith that will tested in the fiery test of time… count on it coming to pass.
In closing,
Talent develops in quiet places, character in the full current of human life. Do what is right in the eyes of our Creator, not mine nor anyone's! And then, after doing so, don't look back because you simply cannot out-give the Man who owns it all in the first place! Choose you this day, 'fore he is no fool that gives what he cannot take, to gain that which he cannot lose…
mb

rodfather
10-29-2002, 05:48 PM
"What The Friday" was that all about:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

CMerLand
10-29-2002, 05:53 PM
UH AMEN I guess.

Now that the sermon is over TSG, go ahead and seed the lawn. I just finished seeding four properties today here in NJ before I got rained out. I'll be selling more dormant overseeding through November as weve been on watering restrictions since August which wiped out our normal over-seeding schedule.

Dormant overseeding is a very viable service as your putting your seed in the ground and it will germinate next Spring when the soil temps come up. The only caveate is that you cannot do a preemergent application until the grass has germinated next spring.

I hate spring seeding as by the time my schedule allows it, it seems every year its not until May. And at that point by the time the seed germinates, the summer heat and dry spells are there to thin out the seed I just installed the month before and Im back doing the area again in the fall. By haveing the seed in the ground it will be up and growing as soon as soil temps allow with time to harden off before summer.

What about the seed rotting? Not going to happen. Weed seeds dont rot do they??? Hell no they can lay dormant in the soil for years waiting for the right conditions to spring their ugly head. Mother nature is a smart girl. The seed knows the conditions it needs to start taking root and will lay their dormant until they arrive.

Got this information from my extension service agent and shes right on top of her game. If you need more convincing, call your extension service and ask for local information about dormant overseeding.

Good luck.

CMerrick

BRL
10-29-2002, 10:04 PM
Holy Grass Blades Batman!!

Either the long hard drought of Jawja has broken & the flood gates opened & floated the venerable beer soaked body of the one & only Grassmaster north of the Mason Dixon line, creating a Yankee twang; or he has met his "mile longer" match. Mark this day on your calendar.

That said, I agree with the thesis Syncom2. However, one needs to be open to new ways & methods & research in our eternal quest to coincide with Mother Nature and allow our cultivations & services to thrive. I have seeded here in NJ also late in the season for various reasons, even as late as December because the property owners needed to seed to obtain their temporary or permanent COO's. I did not rip off my customers. I explained that we will not see the same results as in Spring, Summer or Early Fall, but the seed that may not germinate at this late time will germinate when the wonderful spring rains arrive again along with their warmer soil temperatures. In most cases the spring flush of new growth was incredible. As part of offering this less than perfectly timed service I explain to the customer that we will need to spot seed a few areas inevitably in the spring (and oftentimes this is the case when seeding during optimal times), and I also adjust the seed types that I use to get a higher rye content to get faster germination. So I agree with Cmerland.

However I will disagree with one part of his post.
"The only caveate is that you cannot do a preemergent application until the grass has germinated next spring." recent studies have show that using the normal Pre-M's on last Fall or Early Spring newly planted lawns severely ******s their chances of growing up into healthy thick adult lawns. Using Tupersan (split app.) is supposedly the better idea for those cases to give those lawns a better chance and possibly avoid the need to seed those lawns again the following fall (Tupersan is expensive but it is a Pre-M that works & can be used during seeding). There were some great threads here on this subject in the past with links to the studies etc. (possibly in the Pesticide Forum though).

With my late seedings I have not experienced the "that it is highly unlikely that any new green threaded shoots of a young tender plant would make it past the first cold spell. In other words, it just ain't hardy 'nough at that infantile age to make it to puberty! " that Syncom2 mentions. They seemed to go dormant for sure, but the young plants flourished just fine once the warmer soil temps of spring arrived.

The 3 seeding jobs I did a week and a half ago when temps were nicer are all growing in nice, even thought the nice temps dropped a range the day after I did them
:angry: And I'd say I'm a whole zone or 2 separated from TSG, so my vote is go for it, but put everything in writing for the customer so they can't say in February "hey, the lawn don't look so good" LOL


Man, I think Grassmaster might just pass out when he sees that post. I didn't think I'd ever see anyone out do him. :dizzy:

Jimbo
10-29-2002, 11:28 PM
For once I am speachless!:rolleyes:

Green Pastures
10-29-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by syncom2
Some of you guys/gals here on LawnSite just blow me away at times! Of course, not everyone, just those that have the fatal misconception that they're totally alone in the driver's seat of life!

Now I'm gonna try my best to keep this post on subject and hopefully between the lines, but no doubt, it'll be most difficult to say the least. Because you know, I have bitten my "penning tongue" more times than I'd care to 'fess up to! My bucket is nearly full and it's about to have some of its contents slosh out.

I write those words knowing that so-called "religion" and/or "religious" issues, as well as political views are personal and can be very opinionated perspectives that one has. So please don't cast stones at me for what I'm about to say or even fail to mention. Like the old adage goes, if the shoe fits, then wear it. If not, then don't worry 'bout it. Be forewarned though… if you choose to read on, you will become responsible for what's been shared. That goes no matter where you tread in life.
With that being said, please allow me to go on and say… no! I can't go there, at least not yet I mustn't. Okay, I'm not officially one of yu'l, yet, at least not on the scale that'll I'll / it'll one day become. But even still, can we all agree that most LCO's have an imperative need for "things" to grow, or our services would not be solicited by others… correct?

So then, with the infinite knowledge and wisdom that most LawnSite folks possess - in general, that a LCO has about themselves, who alone has the mastery talent to make "things," such as ordinary green ole grass… survive and/or grow? If it doesn't rain for months on end… and all the water supply in the world has been consumed, can you grow your grass solely on your own merit? Okay, let's say we have plenty of water, but the sun fails to shine for months on end… No, and I don't mean it's just hidden behind some layer of clouds, I'm speakin' of complete blackness blanketing your corner of the world! Do any of you have the ability and can just anyone grow what you like to make money at in cutting? Again, I don't think so! Now please, hang with me, sooner or later I'll try "get" there… okay? What I'm attempting to get nearer to… as in every vocation, there is not a ONE of us that can survive in this industry without someOne working in our behalf… "behind" the scenes ya could say. Call it what you'd like to, but fellers, there is someOne who created us from this dirt that many seem to "think" they can grow their grass in.

So then, by now most all of you will think I'm some "religious" gook that's sitting behind this keyboard. And folks, if that's you, that couldn't be further from the truth! Now if you'd determined to yourself that I've been "blood-bought" by the Creator's Son Himself, you've zeroed me in to the cross hairs of your scope!! And to go on here, 'least you think otherwise of where I'm found on this third rock of His, I'm the most IMPERFECT person that I've ever met in my entire life! You see, in layman's terms it's sorta like there's this never-ending brilliant light source that burns within me… one that endlessly reveals all the "scum" I have about myself… case closed, 'k!?!

So then, I say all that to you in hopes that you'll understand why I responded as I earlier did to the subject of this post, the late seeding of grass.

Because without a shadow of doubt I personally know there's a much Higher authoritative figure in life than where mankind finds himself in this pecking order. We each do have some control over our ultimate destiny, and in the meantime, over our walk and some of circumstances in life that we encounter. In other words, if we choose to do what is right by the Creator's given criteria, then there is some immediate rewards for this favorable behavior. And of course, the opposite of that is equally true. But that is not why we each must do what is "good" and "fair" in our dealings and relationships with others. We do what is right because right is simply that, right! What I'm meaning to say is this… and that is, there is blessings galore in store to be freely given away for those that have His purpose in the forefront of your actions. And for those that don't really understand what a blessing can be to them, it can be nearly anything that brings contentment or true peace in their lives! It can be good health, getting extra mileage out of your equipment, spindles that turn quad sets of blades for seasons on end (!!), having someone make you a fantastic deal on a new piece of machinery, you name it for yourself! The list can go on and on. In other words, there is absolutely no way that you could put a monetary value on it all… 'cos a blessing can be so vast and wide! So don't cash your blessing in early 'cos you think shortchangin' someone might make you more profit in the long run!

In our own "justifiable" minds, most everyone is capable of spawning an excusable but transparent means of fluffing over the real truth of a situation or matter. Yes, up to the point where they will distort, twist and dress up the facts at hand… up to the point that'll ultimately have them end up taking money from their clientele's personal store house... and come out the other side of this business transaction feeling they've been fairly upfront, having just met the bare minimum of what could/should have been revealed. But friend, real truth of the matter is… is if you are knowledgeable to the fact that the odds are stacked way waaaaay high and against for your customer to get his money's worth from your rendered services… Annnnd and there's a gray-ish cloud hovering in the air about what the long term benefit(s) and ultimate expectations of this business transaction will become… Annnnd and you proceed to perform the tasks that are asked for and/or are needed, just so you can say that you've been open and have done your part, annnnnd and proceed to take his money… with the ill-bent preconceived notion, thinking you're gonna further your bottom line number by the time it's all said and done, then brother, you are sadly sadly sadly mistaken! If in question of whether or not you're being totally upfront and truthful with a client, then administer to yourself a "litmus" test, have you.

Ask yourself this question… If this potential customer was your mother, father, grandparent, or what have you… you know, someone you love, someone you cherish their friendship with, would there be no guilt in going forward with the exchange of funds, in this "for instance," the seeding project? None of us can escape and get around the fact that we all are accountable for what we have knowledge of! Yep, our actions and/or inactions belong to us and us alone! Good or bad, our name is written aaaaall over 'em! Bottom line, there is absolutely no, none, nil substitute for honesty and integrity in one's life, business and practices. Sheer ability will enable a man to go to the top, but it takes a good character to keep him/her there at that level.

Character is much easier kept than recovered… now go and ponder that fact!

Of what's visible and available to man, you can have all the newest, shiniest, the prettiest grass cuttin' machines that's available on the market scene. But friend, it's all made of temporal "stuff" that sooner or later it'll not stand the good old fashioned test of time. Sooner or later it'll either rust, rot or decay itself back into the ground that it's presently sittin' on. What you're made of inside your inner being, you'll take to your grave. And like it or not, that's where the accountability issue will be justly reckoned with. Simply put… To much that is given, much will be required…

Try as you wish to separate those "church and state" issues in your heart, mind and soul. If you think you're able to separate "photosynthesis and the Creator" in your business, by any means whatsoever, all I can say to you is you're a man of quicksand faith! A faith that will tested in the fiery test of time… count on it coming to pass.

In closing,
Talent develops in quiet places, character in the full current of human life. Do what is right in the eyes of our Creator, not mine nor anyone's! And then, after doing so, don't look back because you simply cannot out-give the Man who owns it all in the first place! Choose you this day, 'fore he is no fool that gives what he cannot take, to gain that which he cannot lose…
mb

Very nicely said. But I can read between the lines.
Thank you.
You'll do real well in this biz.
God bless you.

Scott

Green Pastures
10-29-2002, 11:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimbo
The worst case is that the seed doesnt take, and unless the lawn is in need of major repair the customer probably wont even notice

Im sure glad you are not my LCO

Please read this several times so that you can learn from it.

Jim QUOTE


Jimbo, so just because the customer wont notice, that makes it right to take his money?

I'm sure glad you're not my LCO! I need someone I can trust to advise me correctly of efficient ways of taking care of my lawn. Not someone who will just take money from me cuz I may or may not have it to throw around.

I've learned all I need to learn from you.

TSG, I'd love to hear how this all turns out. You know in the end. Like Paul Harvey say's "the end of the story".

Scott

KerryB
10-30-2002, 08:10 AM
After that post from Syncom2 I feel like the Aflac duck after listening to Yogi Bera.
LOL

rodfather
10-30-2002, 10:27 AM
Is it time to pass the plate?

Jimbo
10-30-2002, 12:20 PM
Greenpastures,

No, I dont believe it is right to take the customers money....I never said it was right.

What I said was that if you dont take it someone else will (And he will lose this account)! He tried to explain and caution the customer against the service, and thats what I would have done also. But when the customer persist do WHAT THEY ASK!

My motto is the customer is always right! Its there money to spend. I dont know why you are having such a hard time with this concept.

Heres how it should work:
Customer made request, he advised against, customer said no....do it, SO YOU DO!

One exception that I can think of, and some of you will remember this. Awhile back I had a good customer (Daycare center) ask me to spray weed killer chemicals on the wood chips (where the kids play). I said no and they said yes. I stuck to my ground because that could harm the children.
This is the only type of exception I can think of.

Jim

Scraper
10-30-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Jimbo
Greenpastures,

My motto is the customer is always right! Its there money to spend. I dont know why you are having such a hard time with this concept.

Heres how it should work:
Customer made request, he advised against, customer said no....do it, SO YOU DO!

One exception that I can think of, and some of you will remember this. Awhile back I had a good customer (Daycare center) ask me to spray weed killer chemicals on the wood chips (where the kids play). I said no and they said yes. I stuck to my ground because that could harm the children.
This is the only type of exception I can think of.

Jim

Can't agree with you more Jimbo. Luckily my clients listen to my advice.

Green Pastures
10-30-2002, 12:48 PM
Jimbo,

I guess I'll just have to respectfully disagree with you. My point has been made so I will not try to defend it anymore.

Scott

Jimbo
10-30-2002, 01:51 PM
Greenpastures- Fair enough. Im sure there are lots of things that we would agree on; just not this.

Jim

Gravely_Man
10-30-2002, 02:19 PM
The only advice I will give on this subject is that I am currently doing an over seeding on my own lawn. I have stopped doing this for my customers. The answer you are looking for has to be answered with the question "Can you live with or handle the possibility of the seed not coming up in the spring?" Once you know the answer to that you will know if you should take this job on.

Gravely_Man

syncom2
10-30-2002, 02:58 PM
TSG…
Then, in a nutshell here, what I here you telling me (and others) is that your customer doesn't trust your judgment and expertise in the lawn care business field… correct? I mean, if you've told him that your normal cut off date for seeding and/or re-seeding in your area of the country was around the middle of October, then pray tell, why in the world would he ask you to go forward with this seeding project if he didn't think you were off base with your given guidance? I don't know about the majority of others, but if it's been revealed to me that I don't hold the total trust of my client, then, quite frankly, I don't feel that I need their account taking up space in my books! Why not drop them and seek a premium customer… 'cos sooner or later the "non-trustworthy" issue will come into play… Annnd and unfortunately, more times than not, you'll be left holding the bag in some fashion or form. Is not "word of mouth" advertising one of the most inexpensive form of growing one's business? If that's not too far from the truth, then how can one afford to compromise on issues that are priceless for the good and growth of their company? If any of that which I just stated has a tint of truth to it, cannot the opposite occur…? Should this or any customer feel they've been slighted… to the point where your company's name is being towed thru the mud 'cos of some distasteful experience they've been through. Not necessary in the legal field per se, 'cos a contract is a contract, but what I'm speaking more of is a "barbershop" level of community communication. Or maybe only sporting issues are discussed and shared in your local barbershops!?! No so in mine, no so at all!!
Then there's that comment you shared…
"I feel like calling him back and telling him again it's not a good idea…"
My goodness, if that doesn’t sound like your conscious speakin' to you, then I don't know what would it take to make you more aware of its existence!! And need I tell you who the Author of this inner gut feeling is, this inner voice that you should take heed to?? Not wishing to be guilty of penning just to you (TSG… 'cos the "shoe" has a universal fit for everyone), but if one chooses to ignore its presence time and time again, sooner or later there'll be an eternal price to pay! And I didn't set the rules or write the book where that comes from… 'fore I'm just a messenger of what I know to be true… Sooo so again, as I mentioned in my last post, that makes me "accountable" for issues that I read about on LawnSite, or for that matter, anywhere I tread on this 3rd rock! Sooooo when your day has come when you are to be "cashed in," don't try to use the excuse/sentence, "Buuuuut but… hey You, I didn't know! No one ever told me about this sort of "stuff" that I needed to take responsibility for…!" We're all in the dugout of life… soon to be on deck, only an out away from steppin' up to the plate. Do you really think and/or believe that the LCO that was in the sniper's scope a few weeks back knew the day before that he was on deck? Please do not forget to pray for his family!
To go on…
And then… right on the tail end of that sentence about the "should I call back…?" portion you shared, we read…
It's a $1000.00 job… What would you do?"
Hey, I don't care if it's a million dollar job or a measly ole ten dollar… again, there is absolutely NO way around it, right is right! Please allow me to ask you this; Can you have a gallon pail of pure white paint… and allow just one drop of some flat black paint to be incorporated in this pail… and truthfully proclaim to the world that this gallon white paint that I had is still 100% pure white? What you (everyone) need to do is toss away the monetary "straw stuff" you've been entertaining here. In 'nother words, can you really place a price tag on doing what is right? As I said, or failed to just blurt it out, who owns every cotton pickin' last thing in the universe anyway? But really now… what I'm saying, where my major concern lies is not with just you, nor this job in particular. I don't believe I'm off base a fraction of an inch here when I say that I get the feeling there is just too many LCO's out there… that for the sake of pocketing the ole buck, will do "whatever" it takes to have it dropped in their pocket - before their competition has a chance to ring up the sale. Taking any shortcuts to an honest dollar being earned has the potential of totally jeopardize you and your family's life guys! If one will adhere his life and the principal's that he lives by the One who created his butt in the beginning, there's a gazillion promises that can be ours for the taking! Amongst them… no, He doesn't promise that your machine will run on hours without changin' the oil… or that your belts will zing around them spindles for eons of ages… or that you'll not have another dry summer to fret thru next year. But what is promised is that you'll NEVER be alone… which means that He cares so much more than you do for your spouse, children and any and all loved ones! And if He'll do that for you… you can be rest assured that you'll not die from starvation. You will not lack having some threads on your back, or that for every night you'll have to sleep under the stars! As independent as most of us would like to believe we are, we simply cannot do it "alone" on our own… period!
As in my last post, I'm 25% apologetic for getting side tracked with the original post's question. In closing, I'd be the last one here to say to you later on that "I told you so…" that is, should the seeding project go forward and it's a total flop. Between all the posts that have been shared, some real valuable late seeding information has been presented. I've only taken you (and others) where I have 'cos it is my prayer that if you should decide to take on this seeding project, it'll only be because you feel it'll benefit your customer… Annnd and for financial reasons, you've not negotiated and compromised what your heart has been telling you to do, that's all, not a thing more or less would I desire for you or anyone!
mb

Jimbo
10-30-2002, 03:37 PM
Point is none of us can be 100% sure if it will grow so this has nothing to do with money or morales. What it has to do with is a brother (customer) is asking for your assistance to plant some seed, because he does not have the equipment or knowledge to do it himself.
Please help your brother, and if you feel like giving; do it for free. I think you can see that is the true answer.

;)

Lawn-Scapes
10-30-2002, 06:40 PM
syncom2... While I appreciate you taking the time to respond (preach?) at great length to my post.. :dizzy: I did not see any helpful information in your response as to why I should not seed the lawn. Thanks anyway!

I appreciate those of you who did try to answer my question with some useful information.

I went to the homeowners house at 9:00 this morning and rang the doorbell. The Mrs answered... told me her husband was on the phone.. could not come to the door and asked me what I wanted? I told her I would like to speak to him again about the seeding.. to make sure this is what they wanted to do.

She said that he told her yesterday that I was coming to do the seeding this week.. so why would I need to make sure? He told you to do it.. so go ahead... and let's hope for the best!

Kinda felt like an as$... What the heck was I thinking :confused:

So.. I went to get the seed and did the job... in the freezing rain. Man was I chilled to the bone!

Jimbo
10-30-2002, 09:17 PM
Sorry you had to work in the cold rain! Dont you feel good helping that guy out. Customer is the boss.;)

Green Pastures
10-30-2002, 09:19 PM
I'm just biting my tongue.

Scott

syncom2
10-30-2002, 10:00 PM
TSG…
Wow! I was pleased to read that thru the barrage of responses that were launched over this seeding subject, in spite of the opinions that were tossed about, you were able to move yourself off "pivoting decision center" of the task and put it behind you. For the sake of all concerned, I hope that by you extending yourself two weeks beyond your self-imposed cut off date for seeding - that your labor ultimately brings forth a thick lush stand of grass by mid spring of '03. If the crop doesn't meet up to that of your customer's and your expectations and/or standards, then I hope it can be said that not all was lost thru the learning curve. At least not on your end of the operation that shouldn't be your final wrap-up assessment. No two seasons of weather conditions have ever paralleled themselves throughout the ages of time. So what might work for ya this year may or may not pan-out so swiftly next year… just 'cos of some minor deviations that was throwin' the mix along the way. Hey, maybe we should call some of what we do on the lawns of America a "practice"… eh?
Annnnd…
I hope you didn't take some of my thoughts and feelings of the matter I dispensed too personal. For the majority of the time I was attempting to share what I believe in general and broad terms, and not be so focused in on your particular circumstance. In other words, I was speakin' to everyone that was participating and those that were only in the audience. It just so happened that you had authored the thread that pushed my button. Sometimes I find it most difficult in being able to just "universalize" what's been laid on my heart. With that being said, I'm still 110% sold-out on what drives that which I had written of.
True integrity and professionalism has to be instilled in the hearts of each and every lawn care operator out there. Not only does it need to be present and running in the background 24/7, but most importantly, put into practice on a daily basis! If there are many shortcuts taken to get ya there to the top of your class, then I fear it'll be one short-lived ride and temporal stop once you've arrived! One can have all the book knowledge and experience in the world crammed between one's ears… and still, fail miserably by the time it's all said and done - if your morals and character aren't where they're supposed to be.
So then, getting back to the day's event…
If possible, can you enlighten us on what for square footage of an area that you seeded in this freezin' rain? Not only that, but was the soil barren, partially covered, or what kind of preparation did you have to administer before seeding? And of course, what kind of seed was sown would be nice to know - for a nosy cuss such as myself is most times? And will you please give us some follow-ups as "page two" unfolds and becomes known. That'd be nice… thanks!
Going on…
I found it somewhat interesting that there's been some real experience to dispute what I shared (rebroadcast) about novice (untrimmed) grass plants being hardy enough to survive a winter season of our immediate latitude. I had no familiarity with that being the net result myself. I only echoed what I've heard repeated time and time again over the airwaves – which was from two different professional sources, who have their weekly radio programs on the air here in the mid-west. So, I dunno… as it is with so many things, 'reckon it depends on many different factors.
I'm outta here! At least for the time being…
mb

syncom2
10-30-2002, 10:53 PM
And by the way Mr. Jimbo, it ain't always necessarily so that the customer is the real boss! Ideally speakin', from the onset, it's a joint relationship that one must have and maintain in good faith with their customer(s). It is the moral obligation of the business owner/operator to fully disclose and inform the potential customer of all the latent pitfalls, openly share all the historical knowledge and experience they possess – that that might pertain to what's being requested of them… In other words, be upfront, be honest and share all "do's" and "don'ts" of what their rendered services will bring their clientele for the exchange of money.
But then again, if the LCO has no moral fiber or has very little or no righteous character about himself… Annnd and if he has virtually no backbone and doesn't believe in himself 100%, maybe it is the customer who truly is the boss!! I mean, someone has got to take the lead position… correct? If that's been your experience, and it really appears that I'm not too far off base here with that assessment, who is it of me that I should be so bold and attempt to argue your point away? I'm sorry, I guess I've looked at this with my silly ole blinders on…
mb

Ricky
10-31-2002, 05:18 PM
Around here the cut-off date is the last of Sept. The average frost date is Oct. 15th. That hasn't happened yet but we will get a night or two below freeing in a couple of days. This is unusual as was the very mild winter we had last winter. If this seeding job was done last year, you would have been OK but who knows that except the Creator? (Mother Nature doesn't exist). I do understand the Spiritual side of these posts. (1 Cor. 2:14)

Here are some things to consider

The dates are average. I am sure that they factor in that some years there will be early cold and more severe weather.

Just because seed germinates doesn't mean that it will survive.

Dormant seeding is done after the soil is too cold to allow germination, but it will germinate as soon as the soil gets at the right temp.(if it is not washed away or eaten by the birds over the winter)

Grass roots can continue to grow for a month after the ground freezes.

Grass needs to grow enough to be cut at least 2 or 3 times before the end of the season especially if you are going to spray the weeds in the fall.

Fall is much better than spring. IMO

Pre-M is still not good for the grass the next spring.

I think that you did the honest thing by telling them the truth about late fall seeding. If you told them all the draw backs and they still said that they would take the chance, you did OK. It is possible that the grass will do just fine BUT if it don't they may forget your warnings and blame you!

If it was my yard and I couldn't have done it earlier I would rather do it a few weeks late than wait until spring. You can always thicken it up in the spring. :)

rodfather
10-31-2002, 09:34 PM
Good reply Ricky...what you posted made a lot of sense.

Jimbo
10-31-2002, 09:56 PM
Man the nerve of some people on this site. Some people are really hard headed (including myself) but at least I am right.

Syncom2 writes:And by the way Mr. Jimbo, it ain't always necessarily so that the customer is the real boss! Ideally speakin', from the onset, it's a joint relationship that one must have and maintain in good faith with their customer(s). It is the moral obligation of the business owner/operator to fully disclose and inform the potential customer of all the latent pitfalls, openly share all the historical knowledge and experience they possess – that that might pertain to what's being requested of them… In other words, be upfront, be honest and share all "do's" and "don'ts" of what their rendered services will bring their clientele for the exchange of money.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT THE CUSTOMER WAS FULLY INFORMED!!! And the customer requested to have it done anyway, so do what they ask and seed it. It wont harm any children or dolfins to seed a lawn even if it does not grow. Its the owners right as an American citizen to have the lawn seeded 5 times a week if he wants to.

THICK HEADED???:dizzy:

Tom,
Please accept my oppologies if I have said too much on this subject already. I just cant figure some people out.

Jim