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Pro-Lawn&Grounds
08-15-2011, 03:07 AM
Okay I'm going to preface this by saying; I do not care about how you feel on safety and rules and the government and so on and so forth. And if you want to be a genius and say something along the lines of "try the search button" well you're a bloody rocket scientist now aren't you.

THIS QUESTION IS BEING ASKED FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!

I want to put a flatbed dump on my truck. why? because of a few things ... A) its a work truck and a dump would be really helpful at times B)I'd like to use a leaf loader with it and move small amounts of mulch and not have to shovel it out all the time ...

With that being said ... my trucks payload is about 3333LB ... thats not much once you add the bed and hoist ... however the rear axle is rated for 6000LB ... why in the hell can't I hold at least like 4500LB in the back of my truck? I don't see why that would be a problem the Axle can handle it ...

IF YOU KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM answer this thread please with solutions not sarcastic answers from people who simply do not know but still want to be apart of this... THANK YOU

ecurbthims
08-15-2011, 11:03 AM
are you looking to make your truck full dot compliant or just real world capable to run the extra weight ? A spring shop can help you with your suspension ,and your dealer might be able to help you figure out what kind of brakes if any your truck might need to haul the weight .If your trying to do this dot legall ,you would need to check with your dot about adjusting your pay-load capabilities ,which could be either very easy or not possible at all ,it really depends on what they will allow in your area .I have done this before ,but I dont even live in the same country as you so things are probably very different .

MDLawn
08-15-2011, 11:53 AM
I'm not sure how you increase capacity legally. GVWR is GVWR in the eyes of any enforcement. I've read of guys being able to adjust their GCWR for towing (not payload), but paying extra for this and is much dependent on the area you live. The one thing I've heard from many guys is to weigh your truck at a reputable truck scale place such as Cat Scales. They can give you your total trucks weight, front axle weight, and rear axle weight. Some are very surprised to see how much their trucks actually weigh and how much is on each axle. With the rear axle weight you can see where you are at. Now of course the axle is included in that weight and I'm not sure if the axle manufacturers count that # in their "6000lb" axle or if the axle could handle an additional 6000lbs?? Maybe the weakest part (bearings??) is rated to 6000lbs so that would include any weight on it, including the axle housing, etc... Again just guessing here.

I'm sure you may have thought this already but could a bigger truck like a used 1 ton dually be better for you? That way you will probably have that 4500lb payload. I would just see how much it would cost to put the bed, hoist, and whatever other goodies on your current truck vs. selling the current and maybe finding a flatbed dump? If this isn't an option then thats ok.

Pro-Lawn&Grounds
08-15-2011, 01:10 PM
well I could do that but then I'd need a second truck to plow with because it's hard enough plowing residential with a srw ... thanks for the info I think I'm going to give a leaf spring shop a call and ask then what they know

dbear
08-15-2011, 01:41 PM
Despite your insistence that you "do not care about how you feel on safety and rules and the government and so on and so forth," you simply cannot separate that issue from this discussion just because you feel like it, nor can you legally increase your truck's payload.

"Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)."
Read more: How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7303951_increase-truck_s-gvwr.html#ixzz1V7ULR2RR

Why you would choose to willingly and consciously open yourself to the distinct possibility of, at best, numerous tickets and heavy fines,and at worst, massive lawsuits, is beyond reason.

Go buy a 1 ton or bigger to start with.

MDLawn
08-15-2011, 02:11 PM
Despite your insistence that you "do not care about how you feel on safety and rules and the government and so on and so forth," you simply cannot separate that issue from this discussion just because you feel like it, nor can you legally increase your truck's payload.

"Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)."
Read more: How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_7303951_increase-truck_s-gvwr.html#ixzz1V7ULR2RR

Why you would choose to willingly and consciously open yourself to the distinct possibility of, at best, numerous tickets and heavy fines,and at worst, massive lawsuits, is beyond reason.

Go buy a 1 ton or bigger to start with.



I was trying to be nice but dbear is right. I don't plow but understand how a dually isn't the most residential friendly plower. Most spring shops will probably just give a round-a-bout answer as they are not going to tie themselves into a legal battle. They'd probably put on tractor trailer springs/airbags if you were willing to pay for it. Even when I bought a dump trailer and asked about GVWR's, GCWR's, DOT, etc.... they just said "We sell the trailers, you need to understand the laws." Basically saying "we are not tying ourselves into any liabitity." Hate to see you in an accident and be found negligent. Find out what your business needs and do the appropriate thing. Good luck!

Pro-Lawn&Grounds
08-15-2011, 04:01 PM
I found a solution (a leaf spring shop did not give me any run around at all) thanks for everyone's input

Impressions Landscaping
08-15-2011, 05:35 PM
I'd just put more leaf springs in the rear. Simple solution. You may want to also put stronger torsion bars up front or crank on them a bit...putting more leafs in the rear may give the truck a really nasty rake.

Falcon50EX
08-15-2011, 05:54 PM
I found a solution (a leaf spring shop did not give me any run around at all) thanks for everyone's input

So what did they do

Pro-Lawn&Grounds
08-15-2011, 09:02 PM
So what did they do

$400 ... 1 spring on each side ... adds 1200LB that'd offset the aprox weight of the hoist and flatbed leaving me with the full +/- 3333lb which is perfect because I wouldn't be able to fit 3333lb worth of mulch, leaves, or grass clippings into the truck ...

PlantscapeSolutions
08-16-2011, 11:36 PM
Airbags is the easiest and cheapest way to beef up your truck. I've used Firestone and PacBrake airbags and I like the PacBrakes better. I had Firestones on my Ram 2500 4x4. I would tow my gooseneck (triple 7K) which weighed as much as 18-20K loaded. I now have a 09' Ram 3500 4x4 with PacBrake airbags & a 06' Ram 2500 4x2 with PacBrake airbags.

Put 100 psi in the bags and the tires will be your limiting factor. Mass Diesel had the best price on airbags. I only paid about $260 a set. Installation is pretty easy. Be care because the Pacbrake has aluminum threaded caps on the airbags and steel bolts. Use a torque wrench or you can get yourself in trouble pretty quickly.

SMSnyder
08-17-2011, 12:25 AM
Hellwig helper springs.

360ci
08-20-2011, 09:50 AM
This post is nearly pointless, however as I'm waiting for word on some travel papers I feel obliged to state my opinion.

First, payload cannot be increased. Axle weight is what it is, and a 5500lb base truck (min weight) has at least 2300lbs on the back axle to begin with. If the payload is 3300lbs, you have to factor in a full tank of fuel (most of this weight goes onto the rear axle), the weight of you the driver, and in some cases the weight of a spare tire has to be added on as LPO build specs don't factor in the weight of a spare tire in HD trucks. All told your usable payload might only be 2800lbs. Dump beds aren't light, 6' wide mild steel bed with a hydraulic ram and even with wooden stake sides is still a good 750lbs-1000lbs. If you were using it for mulch in the city, it'll be fine to deliver a couple of cubic yards of mulch, but soil, forget it.

As you don't value safety I shouldn't say this, but I will, is the rear overhang of the box. When the box tilts up and you have the truck overloaded to begin with, you risk the front axle coming off the ground. The risk increases dramatically for every foot of overhang over the rear axle. Leave the dump box to a proper one ton dually or heavier truck. Box overhang must be considered on all sizes of trucks.

http://static.onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Overloaded-Truck-Fail.jpg

redprospector
08-20-2011, 03:47 PM
This post is nearly pointless, however as I'm waiting for word on some travel papers I feel obliged to state my opinion.

First, payload cannot be increased. Axle weight is what it is, and a 5500lb base truck (min weight) has at least 2300lbs on the back axle to begin with. If the payload is 3300lbs, you have to factor in a full tank of fuel (most of this weight goes onto the rear axle), the weight of you the driver, and in some cases the weight of a spare tire has to be added on as LPO build specs don't factor in the weight of a spare tire in HD trucks. All told your usable payload might only be 2800lbs. Dump beds aren't light, 6' wide mild steel bed with a hydraulic ram and even with wooden stake sides is still a good 750lbs-1000lbs. If you were using it for mulch in the city, it'll be fine to deliver a couple of cubic yards of mulch, but soil, forget it.

As you don't value safety I shouldn't say this, but I will, is the rear overhang of the box. When the box tilts up and you have the truck overloaded to begin with, you risk the front axle coming off the ground. The risk increases dramatically for every foot of overhang over the rear axle. Leave the dump box to a proper one ton dually or heavier truck. Box overhang must be considered on all sizes of trucks.

http://static.onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Overloaded-Truck-Fail.jpg

As a new member I hate to do this................but!
The example you posted is not a good choice to show what you're wanting to say, and I believe that what you said is wrong. Not the "Box overhang must be considered on all size trucks", because it should. But not for fear of the front axle coming off the ground while dumping. It should be considered because the more weight you put behind the axle (and the farther back you can put it) the more leverage the load has on the front axle while driving. Most who follow the law to a T have never experienced a pickup loaded heavy enough that the front end "floats" while driving. It is dangerous, and is the reason for considering the overhang.
The picture you posted was not caused by too much overhang. It was caused by debris too large to pass through the tailgate. That's why most dump trucks that are hauling off construction debris don't have tailgates on, or have them let down from the hinges.
The truck in the picture isn't in that bad of a jam, all he has to do is put the truck in reverse and back up. The front wheels will come down as the load starts to come out. I say that because the tailgate is broken loose from the right side, so he will have some repair work to do. But mostly it just scares the crap outa you when it happens.

To the OP; I've got an 01 Chevy 2500 4x4 with a 10' dump bed, and one leaf added. You'll be fine. The 10' bed on my truck is way longer than I would have built, but it is built well and was priced right. I use it to haul firewood, I just leave the back 2 foot empty, and life is good. :)

Andy

360ci
08-21-2011, 06:13 PM
As a new member I hate to do this................but!
The example you posted is not a good choice to show what you're wanting to say, and I believe that what you said is wrong. Not the "Box overhang must be considered on all size trucks", because it should. But not for fear of the front axle coming off the ground while dumping. It should be considered because the more weight you put behind the axle (and the farther back you can put it) the more leverage the load has on the front axle while driving. Most who follow the law to a T have never experienced a pickup loaded heavy enough that the front end "floats" while driving. It is dangerous, and is the reason for considering the overhang.
The picture you posted was not caused by too much overhang. It was caused by debris too large to pass through the tailgate. That's why most dump trucks that are hauling off construction debris don't have tailgates on, or have them let down from the hinges.
The truck in the picture isn't in that bad of a jam, all he has to do is put the truck in reverse and back up. The front wheels will come down as the load starts to come out. I say that because the tailgate is broken loose from the right side, so he will have some repair work to do. But mostly it just scares the crap outa you when it happens.

To the OP; I've got an 01 Chevy 2500 4x4 with a 10' dump bed, and one leaf added. You'll be fine. The 10' bed on my truck is way longer than I would have built, but it is built well and was priced right. I use it to haul firewood, I just leave the back 2 foot empty, and life is good. :)

Andy

I spent 3 seconds searching on Google for a pickup load that didn't look 125% red neck. Thus is why I threw the one up of the load of bricks. However it's merely posted to get the point across. I also assumed that people will learn from poor rear axle loading, that it can have adverse affects on the front axle. Similar to that of loading a conventional trailer with 1200lb tongue weight and no weight distributing hitch. Even with a WD hitch the front axle gains weight, but the distribution flows rearward depending on payload, trailer siz, coeff. of drag of everything and so on.

Still for an average landscape truck bed with swing out rear gate (to the sides) and stake sides, dumping it up depending on the load will shift a lot of weight on the back end that can potentially cause the front end to lift off the ground. I saw it myself several years ago with an older F350. It was a city truck dumping asphalt on an angle with the front of the truck facing up the hill. I was walking to the mall at the corner of the street when the said truck lifted the front end off the ground, the load slid out nearly entirely on the ground, and the front end fell back onto the ground. A lot of guys even for 'light duty' work loads, aren't generally trained on proper weight handling for either load, or what the vehicle can handle safely.

redprospector
08-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I spent 3 seconds searching on Google for a pickup load that didn't look 125% red neck. Thus is why I threw the one up of the load of bricks. However it's merely posted to get the point across. I also assumed that people will learn from poor rear axle loading, that it can have adverse affects on the front axle. Similar to that of loading a conventional trailer with 1200lb tongue weight and no weight distributing hitch. Even with a WD hitch the front axle gains weight, but the distribution flows rearward depending on payload, trailer siz, coeff. of drag of everything and so on.

Still for an average landscape truck bed with swing out rear gate (to the sides) and stake sides, dumping it up depending on the load will shift a lot of weight on the back end that can potentially cause the front end to lift off the ground. I saw it myself several years ago with an older F350. It was a city truck dumping asphalt on an angle with the front of the truck facing up the hill. I was walking to the mall at the corner of the street when the said truck lifted the front end off the ground, the load slid out nearly entirely on the ground, and the front end fell back onto the ground. A lot of guys even for 'light duty' work loads, aren't generally trained on proper weight handling for either load, or what the vehicle can handle safely.

Hahaha, I would have liked to have seen that. Reguardless of what size of vehicle you are driving, a little common sence goes a long way.

Andy

94gt331
08-22-2011, 09:06 PM
I have a 2004 2500 with a dump bed insert and im ashamed to say that i constantly push the limits by hauling 2-3 tons of stone and topsoil at many many times with the stock leaf spring system. One of my goals was to add a few springs sometime this season but haven't got round to it yet. Landscapers deffinately need bigger trucks. Even 3500 dump trucks aren't enough for me. So when i do purchase a dump it's going to be a ford 750.

MDLawn
08-23-2011, 02:10 PM
I have a 2004 2500 with a dump bed insert and im ashamed to say that i constantly push the limits by hauling 2-3 tons of stone and topsoil at many many times with the stock leaf spring system. One of my goals was to add a few springs sometime this season but haven't got round to it yet. Landscapers deffinately need bigger trucks. Even 3500 dump trucks aren't enough for me. So when i do purchase a dump it's going to be a ford 750.

I agree with this statement. Many 1 ton dumps have very little legal payload capacity after all the dump components are installed. Unless all you do is mulch and grass. Even the 14k dump I had would only hold about 3 yards of soil but could do 10 yards of mulch. But when you need major amounts of a product you get it delivered. I just liked the 14ft dump bed as it could hold a lot of debris from clean ups and mulch jobs. It was nice to be able to do 3 small clean/trim/mulch jobs with only one trip to the dump and material pick up because of the volume it could hold.

PlantscapeSolutions
08-23-2011, 02:40 PM
I have a 2004 2500 with a dump bed insert and im ashamed to say that i constantly push the limits by hauling 2-3 tons of stone and topsoil at many many times with the stock leaf spring system. One of my goals was to add a few springs sometime this season but haven't got round to it yet. Landscapers deffinately need bigger trucks. Even 3500 dump trucks aren't enough for me. So when i do purchase a dump it's going to be a ford 750.

With my air bag equipped 2002 Ram 2500 I would pull my trailer that weighted 18,000. Both 2500's & 3500's need PacBrake or Firestone airbags if you really want to be able to use the truck. Both my 06' 2500 & 09' 3500 dually have PacBrake airbags. Mass Diesel had the best price when I purchased mine a year ago. I only paid about $275 per truck shipped to Texas.

I now have a 20' PJ tandem dually dump trailer. Dump beds on most trucks are just false hope. Either a 16' or 20' gooseneck dually dump trailer is the way to go. I may consider a Ram 4500 or 5500 for my next truck. My truck has 3.73 gears so I may ponder a 4.10 swap out in the future to gain some pulling power.

The F650 & F750 come with a Cummins 6.7 just like the Rams. It's a big heavy truck with a lot of wasted GVWR. Your almost better off to get a dually and a dump trailer that can be used for more things. You can put a lot of stuff in a 20' dump trailer and still have the truck as a daily driver.