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vencops
08-16-2011, 05:49 PM
How do you guys with cool-season grasses deal with neighbors who aren't with the program (re: TRYING to keep bermuda grass out)?

I've got a great string of lawns on my 2012 program. I have one area that's not going to be treated (although I think I'll get his business on the better part of his lawn). And, it's directly adjacent to one of my customer's lawn. It's heavily infested with bermuda grass.

Am I peein' in the wind? I'm guessing I don't want to know the pricing on the product I'd need to keep it out.

RigglePLC
08-16-2011, 10:21 PM
Ven, I think your suspicions are correct. No product is going to work except, glyphosate.
Deep plastic edging is my suggestion. Even so, you will have to patrol the area frequently and hand pull or kill and reseed any gaps where Bermuda gets over the barrier.

vencops
08-16-2011, 11:46 PM
I may end up mowing over there, too (I mow it, now...while it's under construction). But, if I don't (wouldn't bother me too much), the LCO over there's probably gonna be blowing seed into my good grass. The guy's probably going to sign up for my program. But, he won't be doing anything special in this area. There's also a commons area across the street. Bermuda grass seed abounds.........

Peein' in the wind.

RigglePLC
08-17-2011, 01:05 PM
Ven,
I am not sure about the seed situation. Maybe our warm season grass experts can advise us. Some Bermuda doesn't produce much viable seed. Not much seed if mowed short. I think the seed is not of much importance. The spread due to aggressive rhizomes and stolens...is the main concern.

Ric
08-17-2011, 03:01 PM
..


Riggle

Common Bermuda Propagates by both Vegetative and Seed or Sexually and non-Sexually. Once a seed (Sexual Propagation) get a hold it will spread. Checking on line I find 3 products listed as controlling Bermuda in Blue Grass.


Vencop

Some advice to remember all your life. Always face down wind when peeing.

ron mexico75
08-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Is putting in a mulch bed near that area an option? Just an idea.

vencops
08-17-2011, 06:01 PM
Vencop

Some advice to remember all your life. Always face down wind when peeing.


Ric:

Duly noted!

I'll do a search and see what I find. I've "heard" ornamec will "control" it. But, I've also "heard" it might not be completely safe on the fescue (or the bluegrass.....I can't recall) at the rate it would take to kill the bermuda. Like I said, I'll search more.

Ron:

Yes. That's an option. But, that option will have to wait until the home sells. It's currently on the market for just over $2M. I'm not even going to approach the current owner with that, just now. I wouldn't spend the money on that (if it was mine and on the market).

R&S Lawn Care
08-18-2011, 12:57 AM
I tried acclaim xl on some burmuda taking over fescue. Only a strip, went back a few days later and there was noticeable damage to burmuda. Next will be acclaim xl w/ turflon in the mix. Note this is in central OK, irrigated lawn, back yard, full sun (where burmuda is at).
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RigglePLC
08-18-2011, 03:15 PM
Acclaim with Turflon--didn't do much when I tried it. Most often recommended. Damaged it, but not enough.

Think Green
08-18-2011, 07:38 PM
For me it is the other way around.................cool season grasses eliminated from the Bermuda. Ironic............people want it the other way. The stronger of the grass species will win.

greendoctor
08-19-2011, 03:53 AM
I never understood the concept of trying to keep a cool season grass in the South. Sure it will stay green in the winter, but from spring until frost it is an uphill battle trying to keep it alive. Can't fertilize it to keep it green, can't water it enough to keep it hydrated.

Ornamec + Turflon if you must hurt the bermuda, however this is a multiple application over multiple growing seasons type of program. There might be a good reason why the neighbors all have bermuda. I do know that the seeds for bermuda remain viable in the soil for a long time.

In your shoes, I would start mowing with a reel, fertilizing at 1 lb of N per month during the growing season of the bermuda, then nuke the last of the fescue that remains with Revolver or Image. It is probably easier long term to keep the bermuda. As an aside, the extreme heat and drought in the South is not a fluke or a rare occurrence. It is probably related to a long term weather pattern known as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. In plain English, that means that the South gets hotter and drier, my part of the world gets cold, windy and rainy. I am getting an abnormal amount of wind and rain for August in Hawaii. It is also way cooler than what is usual. Has not gotten up to 90 here yet, where in years past, I see 90 starting in March. This weather pattern usually persists for at least 10-20 years on average, hence the name.

vencops
08-19-2011, 06:30 AM
Nobody has an all bermuda lawn in this neighborhood....nor does anyone want it.

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. To many of us, bermuda grass is a WEED.

Harley-D
08-19-2011, 01:53 PM
I agree Ven. Common Bermuda is not a great southern grass. That's the difference here. It's light green, gets leggy even when mowed properly, and is a common looking warm season grass weed. Improved bermuda is a different story but i would still convert to Zoysia or consider overseeding program.

I've tried tenacity with ornamec and turflon. 24hr browning of leaves of common bermuda with browning in leaf nodes too. The key i hear from Shawn Askew from VaTech is the fall app timing is key. Grass is converting food stores to deepest roots at that point and will carry chemical if timed right.

It self seeding is not an issue here in central Va due to what i think is the freezing. Even though it is dormant, i believe enough damage is done to young plants to keep them from making it. Usually it just spreads imo. VaTech should have something in the next year or two to really start a solid suppression program and eventually be able to start to use the word "control". Chem suppliers really are weary of using that word if you can't get 98% or better kill. Summing up...tenacity may be key but dual fall apps right before dormancy is the trick so far.

Ric
08-19-2011, 05:40 PM
I agree Ven. Common Bermuda is not a great southern grass. That's the difference here. It's light green, gets leggy even when mowed properly, and is a common looking warm season grass weed. Improved bermuda is a different story but i would still convert to Zoysia or consider overseeding program.

I've tried tenacity with ornamec and turflon. 24hr browning of leaves of common bermuda with browning in leaf nodes too. The key i hear from Shawn Askew from VaTech is the fall app timing is key. Grass is converting food stores to deepest roots at that point and will carry chemical if timed right.

It self seeding is not an issue here in central Va due to what i think is the freezing. Even though it is dormant, i believe enough damage is done to young plants to keep them from making it. Usually it just spreads imo. VaTech should have something in the next year or two to really start a solid suppression program and eventually be able to start to use the word "control". Chem suppliers really are weary of using that word if you can't get 98% or better kill. Summing up...tenacity may be key but dual fall apps right before dormancy is the trick so far.

Honda D

Bermuda is like that Popular American Pig Motorcycle that always comes in last in comparison tests with the European and Japanese same size Motorcycles. It might be a loser but there are groups of individuals that swear by it and are willing to Pay big bucks for it.

Think Green
08-19-2011, 06:56 PM
As far as Bermuda grass is concerned.......if fertilized correctly..........allowed to grow tall......watered and then baned, it makes a perfect forage crop for livestock. Otherwise, I am a Zoysia grass person.

Bermuda is for the low budget consumer whom wishes to have nothing to do with their lawn.