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americanlawn
08-17-2011, 08:02 PM
Anybody else seeing these bastards yet? We sure have. About one inch long when stretched out. Been treating nearly full grown grubs all week (some involved severe damage that has been going on for a while -- central Iowa) I'm figuring they are probably June beetle larvae rather than northern mask chafer or jap beetle larvae.
What is your favorate curitive insecticide? Any other reports? (gotta keep your land grant universities informed)

rscp, thanks

Ric
08-17-2011, 08:51 PM
Anybody else seeing these bastards yet? We sure have. About one inch long when stretched out. Been treating nearly full grown grubs all week (some involved severe damage that has been going on for a while -- central Iowa) I'm figuring they are probably June beetle larvae rather than northern mask chafer or jap beetle larvae.
What is your favorate curitive insecticide? Any other reports? (gotta keep your land grant universities informed)

rscp, thanks

Larry

The definition of insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a Different Results. Which is typical of TG/CL. Just a Years ago you posted this Thread about the same problem.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=325520

Imidacloprid is still a generic and costs less than $ 18.00 an acre as a Grub Preventive. At $ 89 a gallon it will do 5 acres. Maybe next year you can raise your price so you can afford to not have a Grub Problem, I know you Northern guys have a hard time getting even 1/3 the price per thousand we in Florida can charge. The reason might be that here in Florida they don't give away Certifications.


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gregory
08-17-2011, 09:17 PM
i used arena this year b/c it was given to me. this stuff has worked great for both chinch bugs and grubs.

Grandview
08-18-2011, 07:25 AM
We could use some grubs. Less than 5% of my customers use a preventative and I rescue 1-2 lawns a year. More grubs would help my sales.

Ric
08-18-2011, 11:09 AM
We could use some grubs. Less than 5% of my customers use a preventative and I rescue 1-2 lawns a year. More grubs would help my sales.

Grandview

Here in Florida I find communities with Man Made Canals have more grubs problems than other areas. There are reasons for this which I won't go into here. As Professionals with many years of experience, we should know where and when we have problems each year. BMP (Best Management Practices) and the Record keeping is a part of being a PRO ACTIVE PROFESSIONAL. If you repeatedly have the same problems year after year then Life is going to be Tougher for you.




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greendoctor
08-18-2011, 02:56 PM
I do not have seasons in my area. I do have bill bugs, chinch bugs, grubs and webworm though. Never noticed problems in the old days because the common treatment for lawns was diazinon. Yes Ric, that was the go-to product in my area. But with that long gone and the residual from years of soaking lawns in diazinon faded, I have had more soil insect issues. Even brand name Merit 75 WSP is not a bank breaker for me. It is all figured into what is needed on a yearly basis to maintain fine turf. I usually combine Dylox or a "thrin" with the Merit because I am seeing insect activity at the time of treatment. Dylox is another product that takes on a different life if the tank mix contains LI 700. My water pH, is at least 7.5 and Dylox lasts all of 10 minutes if pH is over 7

ohiolawnguy928
08-18-2011, 03:39 PM
I would suggest using Imidachloprid at 0.3lb.ai/a. I know dylox is the go to, but research shows merit gets more control. The trade off is merit takes 10-14 days vs 4 or 5 days with dylox. That being said a higher kill precentage taking effect a few days later will equal less damage overall. And yes this is also considering putting it down now as a curative, not a preventative. Oh and straight merit is cheaper per acre than dylox.

Ric
08-18-2011, 05:13 PM
I do not have seasons in my area. I do have bill bugs, chinch bugs, grubs and webworm though. Never noticed problems in the old days because the common treatment for lawns was diazinon. Yes Ric, that was the go-to product in my area. But with that long gone and the residual from years of soaking lawns in diazinon faded, I have had more soil insect issues. Even brand name Merit 75 WSP is not a bank breaker for me. It is all figured into what is needed on a yearly basis to maintain fine turf. I usually combine Dylox or a "thrin" with the Merit because I am seeing insect activity at the time of treatment. Dylox is another product that takes on a different life if the tank mix contains LI 700. My water pH, is at least 7.5 and Dylox lasts all of 10 minutes if pH is over 7

Green

You don't have to tell me the advantages of Diazinon. Of everything that has come off the Market I miss Diazinon the most. Just today I ran into an old Structural/Termite Guy at Wally World. We were in fact talking about Bed Bugs and other problems. Chlordane, DDT, Lindane and Diazinon are all missed by older techs. Diazinon at one time even had a Nematode rate right on the bag.

With a average pH 9.5 on my Calcareous Sand, Dyloxs doesn't work real great. While LI 700 is a great acidifier it can't change the soil pH. But the Point here is to be smart enough to learn from past experiences and not have Grub problems every year.


I would suggest using Imidachloprid at 0.3lb.ai/a. I know dylox is the go to, but research shows merit gets more control. The trade off is merit takes 10-14 days vs 4 or 5 days with dylox. That being said a higher kill precentage taking effect a few days later will equal less damage overall. And yes this is also considering putting it down now as a curative, not a preventative. Oh and straight merit is cheaper per acre than dylox.

Ohio

All the more reason to treat Grubs Preventative. I sorry but at $ 18.00 an acre chemical cost, I can't see not using imidacloprid.

Do a search about Grub control. There are certain area in a yard where Grubs are more likely to be. A good spray tech knows these area and will either spot treat or be sure to give a good treatment in those areas. Grub Eggs will absorb twice their weight in water over the incubation period. Therefore they need to be laid in very wet but not soaked area. This is generally just above the high water mark. I Blanket treat, but I make sure to pound those Grub favorable ares extra hard. It has been a long time since I had Grub Damage.



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americanlawn
08-18-2011, 07:57 PM
I realize I posted a similar report regarding annual white grubworms about a year ago, but each year is different. Different types of grubworms can quickly wipe out areas of lawns here, so that's why ISU is very concerned. I spoke with ISU entomologists yesterday. They had reports about 3 weeks ago from Iowa goff courses regarding damage from Black Turfgrass Ataenius grubworms, but my report regarding "noticeable injury to turf" was the 1st they heard of.

I'm figuring it is May/June beetle larvae, but the ISU folks want to know for sure which larvae it is. They need to know the raster pattern (found on the butt of larvae) to determine what rascal it is. To me, they're all the same --just kill 'em with Dylox.

Raster patterns:

Jap beetle larvae = V pattern
May'June larvae = 2 lines
Northern Masked Chafer = no distinct pattern

DA Quality Lawn & YS
08-18-2011, 11:07 PM
Ah yes chlordane - one whiff of that would take the hairs outta your nose.
Worked though....

grassman177
08-18-2011, 11:16 PM
myhouse was treated with chlordane once i know of

Ric
08-19-2011, 12:34 PM
I realize I posted a similar report regarding annual white grubworms about a year ago, but each year is different. Different types of grubworms can quickly wipe out areas of lawns here, so that's why ISU is very concerned. I spoke with ISU entomologists yesterday. They had reports about 3 weeks ago from Iowa goff courses regarding damage from Black Turfgrass Ataenius grubworms, but my report regarding "noticeable injury to turf" was the 1st they heard of.

I'm figuring it is May/June beetle larvae, but the ISU folks want to know for sure which larvae it is. They need to know the raster pattern (found on the butt of larvae) to determine what rascal it is. To me, they're all the same --just kill 'em with Dylox.

Raster patterns:

Jap beetle larvae = V pattern
May'June larvae = 2 lines
Northern Masked Chafer = no distinct pattern



Larry


Interesting that you say each year is different. Here in the South we can set our clocks by Grub Season. Even 10 years ago when the Sugar Cane Grub first appeared in my area. We were able to control it with the same SOP as out native Grubs.



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americanlawn
08-23-2011, 07:52 PM
I hear ya. Here's a pic from today -- his family wiped out an entire front lawn. He weighs in at just over an inch. Raster pattern confirmed he is a May/June beetle grubworm (Phyllophaga sp.)

The Omaha, Kansas City, Des Moines area often gets several other grubworms including:
Cotinus nitida,
Popillia japonica,
Cyclocephala sp,
Rhizotrogus majalis,
Maldera castanea,
Exomala orientalis, and
Ataenius spretulus.

First it's usually Black ataenius, then the one in the pic, then all the others.

Before anybody asks, that black thing left of the paper towel is a "you know what" cuz that little bastard was not potty trained. :laugh:

Some years, we don't see squat for grubs. Other years, it's terrible. No way to predict ahead of time. Weird

Ric
08-23-2011, 07:58 PM
Larry

Back to my original point. After 30 years in the business you still can't manage Grubs?????????

americanlawn
08-23-2011, 08:37 PM
If the customer takes a grub prevent app, then they're okay (unless we use the crap you use). If they don't, or if it's a new account, they're taking a chance. We leave it up to them cuz we ain't no used car salesmen. Most common grub damage here has typically been from mask chafers, but times are changing fairly quickly as Japanese beetles have very recently become a serious threat here. Five years ago, we had no Japanese beetles, but now they have become more prolific each year.

Regarding managing grubs, did you mean growing them & selling them on ebay? :laugh:

Ric
08-23-2011, 10:02 PM
If the customer takes a grub prevent app, then they're okay (unless we use the crap you use). If they don't, or if it's a new account, they're taking a chance. We leave it up to them cuz we ain't no used car salesmen. Most common grub damage here has typically been from mask chafers, but times are changing fairly quickly as Japanese beetles have very recently become a serious threat here. Five years ago, we had no Japanese beetles, but now they have become more prolific each year.

Regarding managing grubs, did you mean growing them & selling them on ebay? :laugh:

Larry

The Crap I use Works and is the same Crap U of Iowa recommends. At $ 18.00 a acre cost to prevent Grubs, I some how can't understand why You have more Grub Problems than TG/CL???

You say you are not a used car salesman. But the reason Used car salesman have such a bad reputation is because the screw their customers by not giving them full disclosure. If you are not preventing Grubs on your customers property, then you are not giving your customer full disclosure or proper service.

klsgc
08-23-2011, 11:21 PM
We are like you Larry, the ones who take the pre are fine, but if they don't want it, I'm not going to lose a customer over it. It just means we can charge for a dylox app if they get em. I found grubs on a property in west michigan today. I thought that it would be too early for white, and assumed they were billbug grubs because we can get those mid summer. It does have legs though, and I was under the assumption billbug grubs do not have legs. The body was also quite dark. They are very tough to find as well because they can be quite small. Anyone know anything about these?

Ric
08-24-2011, 11:28 AM
We are like you Larry, the ones who take the pre are fine, but if they don't want it, I'm not going to lose a customer over it. It just means we can charge for a dylox app if they get em. I found grubs on a property in west michigan today. I thought that it would be too early for white, and assumed they were billbug grubs because we can get those mid summer. It does have legs though, and I was under the assumption billbug grubs do not have legs. The body was also quite dark. They are very tough to find as well because they can be quite small. Anyone know anything about these?



klsgc

IMHO if you are not providing a total Lawn Care Program to your customer then you are the USED CAR SALESMAN Larry talks about. Here in my area Scotts sells a Grub preventative on 5 K of turf for $ 165.00. It costs them a Whole $ 2.00 in Chemicals. The same Lawn I only charge $ 75.00 a month or $ 900 to $ 1050 a year for a total care package with no extras on Trees, Shrubs, Lawn and inside Pest Control. They Charge $ 65 a month and hit the customer for every extra they can.

IMHO Having Grub problems year after year just shows how poor a quality work you do

americanlawn
08-24-2011, 10:09 PM
Ric - I was just giving you a hard time cuz I have no clue what products you use, your market, or what critters you have to deal with. I realize Florida is whole 'nuther ballgame filled with more challenges than any other State. ie: One really needs to be an expert, or else you're out of business -- tough State, and I admire how you handle the heavy pest pressure + customer expectations.

klsgc - Most lawns in central Iowa (here) seldom have significant billbug damage as these critters are more common in northern Iowa/southern Minnesota.

When at the Iowa turfgrass show last month, I asked questions regarding the "current" Scotts Company: BTW it ain't O.M. Scotts & Company anymore

1) Scotts recommends applying GrubEx in March/April for "season-long" control of grubs. This is not only misleading for most folks, but it's most often a ripoff regarding grubs here, cuz the product shells out in 3 months or so. (nearly all grubworm damage happens here in late summer & fall).

2) Scotts then recommends (a couple months later) to apply GrubEx AGAIN in mid summer (that makes it twice regarding this "season-long control product") hmmmmm

On the other hand if you want billbug control as well as grubworm control in the Midwest, Merit (etc) should be applied TWICE (March/April for billbugs and then again in early summer for most grubworms). Not saying grubworm damage never occurs in spring, but it's rare.

We pattern our program from land grant universities. ISU is our main source. Lawnsite.com members and it's sponsors have also been very valuable IMO.

Anybody else seeing annual white grubworm damage?

Ric
08-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Ric - I was just giving you a hard time cuz I have no clue


Larry

Truer words were never spoken, but IMHO you give yourself the Hard time....... I also believe at the prices you get for the sq ft treated, a Florida CPO has a Bigger bottom line with 300 accounts than you do with 3,000.



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klsgc
08-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Ric,
I'm not sure how my customers choosing not to use our grub prevention application makes me a crappy applicator. My job as an applicator/salesman is to inform the customer of the risks and advantages of each application, give them my professional opinion, and then let them take the information I have provided and make an educated decision. Probably 50% of my customers get a grub pre. I have many who have never applied one since the house was built, have never had grubs, or enough of them to do any damage, and probably never will. Should I go and try to force these people into applying a grub pre? IPM says no, that would be the used car salesman. Not everyone drives a BMW, some drive junkers. Those same people only want to budget so much on a lawn and we can get them a pretty good looking lawn for that. If they get grubs, we will catch it before it gets out of control and will kill/pre after that.

Ric
08-24-2011, 11:14 PM
Ric,
I'm not sure how my customers choosing not to use our grub prevention application makes me a crappy applicator. My job as an applicator/salesman is to inform the customer of the risks and advantages of each application, give them my professional opinion, and then let them take the information I have provided and make an educated decision. Probably 50% of my customers get a grub pre. I have many who have never applied one since the house was built, have never had grubs, or enough of them to do any damage, and probably never will. Should I go and try to force these people into applying a grub pre? IPM says no, that would be the used car salesman. Not everyone drives a BMW, some drive junkers. Those same people only want to budget so much on a lawn and we can get them a pretty good looking lawn for that. If they get grubs, we will catch it before it gets out of control and will kill/pre after that.

klsgc

I think you are missing the point about BMP. Best Management Practice which include IMP integrated Pest Management. BTW these Letter also stand for IMP = I Pay Material and BMP = Better Make a Profit.

The Big part of BMP is Record keeping because things like Grubs and Brown patch will occur over and over again each year. Therefore knowing and keeping records allows you to Prevent them from happening. It takes less chemical to prevent a Pest than it does to Cure or control a Pest. The Old Oz of Prevention is worth a pound of Cure. Hopefully the Tree hugger will appreciate our trying to protect the environment. BUT The POINT IS KNOWNING YOUR PEST PRESSURE AND SELLING THE APPROPERATE PROGRAM.

OVER SELLING a customer and UNDER SELLING a customer are in fact the same crime. In both case the Customer is not getting the value they think they are paying for. Of course Lawn Care takes time a study to do correctly. That is something I don't see many people putting enough effort into. Case in point just because some one is in the industry for Many years doesn't mean they have learned a thing. They just repeat the same mistakes year after Year. I would hope they were smart enough not to brag about their mistakes

Now Let me ask a question. Which is cheaper and more productive. Spending a tad more on products to insure a great response. Or Spending Money on expensive advertisement to replace the Lost customers from doing poor work?? How many time have you read on Lawnsite WORD OF MOUTH IS THE BEST WAY TO GET CUSTOMERS. How do you get word of mouth?? Good work or Expensive TV advertisement? Which is profitable?? Word of Mouth or Expensive advertisement?

MnLefty
08-25-2011, 09:58 AM
klsgc

I think you are missing the point about BMP. Best Management Practice which include IMP integrated Pest Management. BTW these Letter also stand for IMP = I Pay Material and BMP = Better Make a Profit.

The Big part of BMP is Record keeping because things like Grubs and Brown patch will occur over and over again each year. Therefore knowing and keeping records allows you to Prevent them from happening. It takes less chemical to prevent a Pest than it does to Cure or control a Pest. The Old Oz of Prevention is worth a pound of Cure. Hopefully the Tree hugger will appreciate our trying to protect the environment. BUT The POINT IS KNOWNING YOUR PEST PRESSURE AND SELLING THE APPROPERATE PROGRAM.


Ric-

I understand what you're saying, and am curious how you would handle/sell the following situation that is common for my climate.

Grub problems at most once every three years, and at most 25% or less of the customer base, and not necessarily the same 25% of customers when there is a problem. Your climate may be quite predictable, but you make it sound like us northerners should be able to predict when and where we might see a grub issue that in my case is about a 10% or less probability...

Ric
08-25-2011, 11:03 AM
Ric-

I understand what you're saying, and am curious how you would handle/sell the following situation that is common for my climate.

Grub problems at most once every three years, and at most 25% or less of the customer base, and not necessarily the same 25% of customers when there is a problem. Your climate may be quite predictable, but you make it sound like us northerners should be able to predict when and where we might see a grub issue that in my case is about a 10% or less probability...

MnLefty

WHAT I DO IS.

I don't detail every possible issue with my customer, In fact I don't even have a contract. I will provide a proposal if they insist. I don't sell a program, I don't sell Treatments, I don't Sell Weed Control or Grub Control. What I sell is Results and nothing else. I charge enough that an extra $ 18.00 an acre per year is not going break me and If I over apply Imidacloprid it isn't going going to kill the wales. Because it is as safe a Insecticide as you can find. But I give the customer and Health Pest Free lawn as EXPECTED

Maybe I am lucky or have the Right Market area. But I have never had any real legal issues from a customer. Oh sure I have written off a few over the years but No Contract is a double edged sword and I can quit a customer just as easy as he quits me.




PS. As a side note. If you can't charge enough to provide professional lawn care, you better find another gig. I am sorry but Lawn Care is just as much a professional trade as a Plumber or Electrician. Both those trades have 3 or 4 year apprenticeship and School or study material. Why Fools think they can buy Crap at Home Cheapo and compete professionally is be on me. Of course that is why your prices are so low. Lobby your state for stricter Licensing and watch how your prices will increase.

gregory
08-25-2011, 04:30 PM
i have to agree with ric, i dont think most customers want or need details they just want a weed free bug free lawn. you go into to much detail i feel it may go over there head and you will lose them. the reason is the dont understand what chemical does what and they really dont care i think. all they care about is a nice lawn.dont get me wrong but some might ask questions but like ric said the price is so cheap per acre why not just give them one price and be done with it. you will not win every bid nor will you want to. give them what they want and what they pay for and let the others who are price shopping go to a cheaper place and let those people deal with the cheapo's.......if you start to nickle and dime them over everything most will think your trying to screw them.

or sorry mister that is nutsedge thats not covered under our contract. or sorry sir that is grub damage thats not covered kinda sounds like that extended warranty you got for that new car but nothings covered leaves a bad tatste in there mouth...alot of people wont remember the details of the contract when this time comes around...

americanlawn
08-25-2011, 09:16 PM
So you are saying you offer grubworm products, nutsedge products, other specialty herbicides, wear & tear on equipment & vehicles, and whatever else, plus your time encountered on your part, plus fuel etc at no charge? How TF do you stay in business and still compete? Just curious. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, cuz we "charge" for "extra time & material". So does everybody around here. rsvp cuz I want to know :confused:

gregory
08-25-2011, 09:40 PM
I like the TF comment..........

i dont think anybody said things were done for free are you a short fellow bc things seem to fly right over your head....

do you offer total lawn care or just some lawn care????????

klsgc
08-25-2011, 09:41 PM
yup, at $2/k for bifenthrin I'm probably going to charge pretty healthy for killing someone's chinch bugs.

klsgc
08-25-2011, 09:44 PM
AAHHHHH, I get it. You guys are in favor of Obama lawncare. Charge everyone for pests, not the just the ones who have the issues. Its just not fair that my neighbor doesn't have them and I do so I have to pay to kill them.

ted putnam
08-25-2011, 09:49 PM
I treated a zoysia lawn today that had about a 1K area that had grubs. Grubs are not a big problem around here but we do occasionally see them. I had a 20lb bag of grub control that treats 25K and cost me $15. Do I treat the 1K and charge extra for the material and time or do I knock on the door, tell the customer I found grubs, treated them at no charge as part of the service since it was such a small area and from now on I'm "superman"?? I charge enough to cover the little incidentals such as this. To me the answer is obvious. Like Gregory said, you can nickle and dime people to death because you sold them the "bare-bones" program sothey would think they were getting a "deal" and you could add another customer to your list or you can offer them value at a Fair (but usually not the cheapest) price and neither one of you will sweat the small stuff.

ted putnam
08-25-2011, 10:06 PM
yup, at $2/k for bifenthrin I'm probably going to charge pretty healthy for killing someone's chinch bugs.

They must have sold you a tube of KY jelly while you were there. $2/k....you need another supplier....

gregory
08-25-2011, 10:15 PM
yup, at $2/k for bifenthrin I'm probably going to charge pretty healthy for killing someone's chinch bugs.

man who sold you bifen at $2/k i can sell it to you and make money. i am just a home onwer and i just looked i pay around $6.00 to treat my arce yard for bifen..


you want to buy some bifen? i will even ship it for free...

klsgc
08-26-2011, 12:03 AM
I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $20 per bag for 0-0-7+bif.
Chinch calls for high rate which is 10k/bag.

I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $38 per bag for dylox. 10k for grubs, 15k for sod webworms. Thats almost $4 per k. I don't know of a grub killer that covers 25k per bag.

Its ridiculous but I haven't found a better option.

Ric
08-26-2011, 12:39 AM
So you are saying you offer grubworm products, nutsedge products, other specialty herbicides, wear & tear on equipment & vehicles, and whatever else, plus your time encountered on your part, plus fuel etc at no charge? How TF do you stay in business and still compete? Just curious. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, cuz we "charge" for "extra time & material". So does everybody around here. rsvp cuz I want to know :confused:

Larry

How do I stay in Business???? Fair enough question and I am not going to tear you up because other already have you bleeding profusely.

First and most important point is I would like to think I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING and Florida doesn't give Certification away in Crack Jack boxes. For FULL service not Some Service we get $ 15.00 a Thousand Sq Ft per treatment with a 5 K or $ 75.00 Minimum. That price is actually about Medium range and competitive. Because Water Front Property is so expensive, lots are just under a 1/4 acre with 3 to 5 K of Turf. Therefore it is very easy for a young guy to treat 15 lawns a day 5 days a week 4 weeks a Month for a total of 300 accounts that are serviced once a month. Now 300 accounts times $ 75.00 equals $ 22,500 income a month and our growing season is 12 months a year. or 270,000 a year total sales. BTW My full service is 6 lawn and 6 ornamental treatments a year including Fertilization Insect Fungus and Weed control. It also includes inside pest control but only if they have a problem. If I do a excellent job on the outside I have taken away 99% of the insect pressure. I have been in the Pest control business 10 years now and have very little Inside problem if any. This plan works great for me and the Customer.

Now let us talk cost. yearly Grub Control is $ 18.00 an acre as I keep saying but on a 5 K or under lawn the Cost is $ 2.00 one time for a $ 75.00 treatment Chinch Bugs Ants and surface insects in general I use Bifen XTS at a cost of $ 4.80 an acre or just over $ 0.50 a lawn. Fertilizer I spend a whole $ 2.00 a thousand mostly on Minors so my lawns are the darkest green in town. (BTW you once comment on how green my personal lawn is that I spray round on so I don't have to mow. So think what my customers lawns that actually get fertilizer look like. Fungus one a year prevention is expensive at $ 1.25 per thousand or about $ 6.25 a yard. Weed Control is really starting to get Cheap now the Tenacity is on the Market. $ 25 and Acre or about $ 2.75 a yard.

You talked about driving 40 mile to treat a yard. If I leave my house and drive past every account and back home. I won't drive 40 miles total. My 20 year old Diesel Cab Over only has 164,000 miles.

Licensing $ 310 a year Certification renewal $ 200 a Year. Business Liability Insurance $ 800 a year. Full coverage Truck insurance for two trucks, Cab over and 3/4 ton pick up $ 110 a month or 1320 a year. Cell phone unlimited $ 90.00 a month.

Advertising Expense ZERO



HOW DO I MAKE ANY MONEY?? HOW CAN I NOT MAKE MONEY. A one man band doing 300 account can make well over 150,00 a year. I am willing to bet with 3,000 accounts you don't make that kind of Money. BTW I am semi retire and only do 5 yard a day not 15 like the young bucks. Heck I am Lawnsite most of the day. But still working 3 to 4 hours a day I make over $ 50 K a year.







klsgc

I mean no disrespect, but if you had professional training you would Know Granular Pesticides are many times the cost of Liquid. Bifen XTS I buy for $ 24.00 a quart and it covers 5 Acres at High Rate and 10 Acres at Low Rate. BTW That the Reason for skid sprayers.





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gregory
08-26-2011, 10:06 AM
I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $20 per bag for 0-0-7+bif.
Chinch calls for high rate which is 10k/bag.

I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $38 per bag for dylox. 10k for grubs, 15k for sod webworms. Thats almost $4 per k. I don't know of a grub killer that covers 25k per bag.

Its ridiculous but I haven't found a better option.

better off using liquid bifen. cheaper and you get a better kill....

ted putnam
08-26-2011, 10:53 AM
I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $20 per bag for 0-0-7+bif.
Chinch calls for high rate which is 10k/bag.

I had 3 different suppliers quote me roughly $38 per bag for dylox. 10k for grubs, 15k for sod webworms. Thats almost $4 per k. I don't know of a grub killer that covers 25k per bag.

Its ridiculous but I haven't found a better option.

I was trained to apply liquid to all surface insect problems. Likewise, all subsurface insects were treated with a dry product. You wouldn't try to control a broadleaf weed infestation with a granular weed control, would you?? The same principle applies for any professional.
As far as a PRE for grubs. I can see where that could potentially be an expensive app because of using a dry product, depending on the product you decide to go with. I would consider this a special/optional app and it would be marketed as such when "signing up" the customer. If the problem were widespread enough though, I would make it a part of my regular program and all full program customers would get it and it would be figured in to the yearly total, again, at a fair price. Otherwise, it is a spot treatment when I see it FREE or anywhere from a free service call to an adjustable price(depending on the scope of the problem) if the customer notices it between my regular visits. I handle things this way and IMO it offers the customer great service and good value.

Ric
08-26-2011, 11:18 AM
..



Larry

IT IS A MONTHLY CHARGE NOT A PER TREATMENT PRICE.


Re Reading this morning let me clear up my Pricing structure. Remember I am selling a Result not treatments What I offer is a Monthly Price based on Property size that includes L & O plus inside pest control. The Minimum Price is $ 75.00 or $ 15.00 a thousand of turf. But what the customer gets is total YARD CARE WITH NO EXTRA CHARGES. Many Customers have me on Auto Pay because I charge a monthly fee instead of a Per Treatment Charger. BTW Tree & Ornamental product costs are way below turf so it is a great margin.

Sure I get under cut by the $ 42.50 guys that do SOME CARE ONLY and then try and up sell ever month. I just don't believe in Bait and switch.

My normal sales Pitch is, "Yes I do the same thing as I do to your friends house."


BTW While L&O is the major part of my Business I do other pest control work also. It nice to do different jobs and in some cases I don't make half the money of L&O but still enjoy doing the job because it is different. But in most cases these different or odd jobs pay very well because no one is interested in breaking their routine.


..

Ric
08-26-2011, 11:33 AM
..

Ted

Let me add carrier facts to your information. What I mean by carrier is the amount of water you apply per thousand. Of course for Foliar application (like Herbicide) we all know a Lower Volume of water and higher Percent of AI works best.

But the POINT I want to make is a High volume of water works better on Surface insects. Case in point might be a Flea infestation in a yard. I use 10 gallons Per Thousand. A 100 gallon tank I would only use 10 oz of Talstar so I only applied one Oz per thousand.

Fire Ants and Chinch bugs I only use 5 Gallons per K Which is 20 Oz of talstar in a 100 tank.


..

kirkschopped67
08-26-2011, 06:58 PM
Ric

I am not in the business, just a home owner. Will you explain to me the correct product and the time of the month to control grubs in my lawn. I live in California, and would like to know your opinion of the life cycle, and how to control them the correct way. What and when should I put down to kill those grubs, moths, beetles, ECT.

Kirk

americanlawn
08-26-2011, 08:06 PM
Every market is different. Size/structure of business or number of accounts is not important. It's profit that counts.....otherwise one cannot stay in business. But then I get also get taxed to death ...... now about 48% of Americans rely on some sort of welfare (MY MONEY), and I'm truly sick of folks taking money from MY family. That just ain't right. In my State, one minority alone accounts for over 25% of welfare payments - even though they only account for about 2% of my State's population. That ain't right!

Regarding liquid/surface apps for grubs... We used to apply Triumph 4E liquid. That stuff was awesome, but it was pulled off the market in the late 90's. Oftanol worked okay, but certain grubworms became immune to it. Weird. Been mainly using Merit since then as a preventative. Dylox for quick kill. Tried "Aloft" last year cuz it supposedly had quick kill + prevent.....ain't using it any more cuz the results sucked IMO

Being semi retired & pulling in that kind of dough is AWESOME! Too bad uncle sam is using OPM's (other peoples' money) to give it to deadbeats in this formally proud Country. my 2 cents

Ric
08-26-2011, 08:38 PM
Ric

I am not in the business, just a home owner. Will you explain to me the correct product and the time of the month to control grubs in my lawn. I live in California, and would like to know your opinion of the life cycle, and how to control them the correct way. What and when should I put down to kill those grubs, moths, beetles, ECT.

Kirk

Kirk

The Honest answer is I don't know But your local county Extension agent should be able to advises you. He is part of the Land Grant University system set up by the Federal government back when the government actually helped people. I am 3,000 miles away and in a Subtropic Wet Climate to your Milder Dry Climate. I know my area and problems but not yours.

I use the generic of a product made by Bayer Labs called Merit 2 F. It is a systemic that has a resisdual so the window of opportunity is forgiving as long as you are close. Too early and is wears out, too late and it isn't ready for grub control. but the window is forgiving in most areas.

Grubs are the Pulp of Beetles as Caterpillars are to Butterflies. Grub eggs must absorb twice their weight in water in order to hatch. Therefore Grubs are generally found just above the the high water mark after a heavy rain or other semi wet or moist areas. Some Educated Pros in certain areas actually only treat these areas in places where Grubs are not a big problem or where they Kept records of past grub damage. Depending on the species, Grubs live in the Grub form before becoming Beetles for 1 to 3 years. Beetles general live a few months and once again can or can't be a problem pest depending on species.

Now the problem I have in advising homeowners is the equipment I use is out of your price range as a homeowner. I also purchase commercial chemical which might not be as accessible to you. However I am sure I just gave you more information than most Cracker Jack Certifications.




Larry

Quality vs Quantity is an old theme when it comes to business. Comparing our two Business is like Comparing Your large Public housing unit to my Million dollar Single Family Water front homes. Or like the saute Chef once told me. You got to know your onions if you don't want flip burgers.


HAVE A DAY

gregory
08-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Every market is different. Size/structure of business or number of accounts is not important. It's profit that counts.....otherwise one cannot stay in business. But then I get also get taxed to death ...... now about 48% of Americans rely on some sort of welfare (MY MONEY), and I'm truly sick of folks taking money from MY family. That just ain't right. In my State, one minority alone accounts for over 25% of welfare payments - even though they only account for about 2% of my State's population. That ain't right!

Regarding liquid/surface apps for grubs... We used to apply Triumph 4E liquid. That stuff was awesome, but it was pulled off the market in the late 90's. Oftanol worked okay, but certain grubworms became immune to it. Weird. Been mainly using Merit since then as a preventative. Dylox for quick kill. Tried "Aloft" last year cuz it supposedly had quick kill + prevent.....ain't using it any more cuz the results sucked IMO

Being semi retired & pulling in that kind of dough is AWESOME! Too bad uncle sam is using OPM's (other peoples' money) to give it to deadbeats in this formally proud Country. my 2 cents



Larry i am afaid that will never change. alot of those on welfare have no reason to work and never will find one until the money runs out until that happens that will continue.

i used arena this year b/c i was given a 40oz jug. i alreay had a 2.15 gallon jug of dominion but i wasnt going to turn down a free jug of arena. i had bad grub problems over the last 2-3 years. not this year the arena has worked great for both chinch bugs and grubs....

fl-landscapes
08-26-2011, 10:49 PM
Larry i am afaid that will never change. alot of those on welfare have no reason to work and never will find one until the money runs out until that happens that will continue.

i used arena this year b/c i was given a 40oz jug. i alreay had a 2.15 gallon jug of dominion but i wasnt going to turn down a free jug of arena. i had bad grub problems over the last 2-3 years. not this year the arena has worked great for both chinch bugs and grubs....

Unfortunately when the money runs out they don't go back to work they riot and burn cars and destroy business. Just look at Greece
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BShaffer
08-28-2011, 10:05 PM
I deal with grubs very little, but isn't a grub a grub? Doesn't matter what species, they are all the same. Do a preventative application and be done for the year.

americanlawn
09-12-2011, 06:50 PM
New tiny grubs today. Sorry for the bad picture.

center of pic: a penny

left: 2 tiny grubs

lower right: a one inch grub -- hard to see in the pic, but he's headed north and slightly west :laugh:

These grubs were found today on a 35,000 sq ft (irrigated) lawn in West Des Moines. The entire lawn needed treatment. As many as 12 per s/f were found. More grubs per sqaure foot were found in healthy/green turf compared to less green areas.

A month ago, we were finding "one inch" grubs. So I'm guessing these new/small ones are mask chafers.

kirkschopped67
09-12-2011, 07:16 PM
Americanlawn

What is your plan of attack?

Kirk

americanlawn
09-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Dylox -- tried other "new" products, but they were disappointing. (Aloft sucks)

I actually treated his "front island" (1500 s/f) today with a push spreader cuz it was "mushy" due to heavy irrigation for recent landscaping. (Don't need a ride-on unit making ruts).

The other 34,0000 s/f will be treated with Dylox tomorrow (Sept 13) with a T Three Million (T3000).



Americanlawn

What is your plan of attack?

Kirk

Ric
09-12-2011, 08:55 PM
Larry

I would be ashamed to make the posts you make about not being able to control grubs after 30 some years in the Lawn spray business.

kirkschopped67
09-13-2011, 05:34 PM
Ric

Why do you think he should be ashamed? If you are joking, that is fine, but if you are for real your just a jerk.

Kirk

americanlawn
09-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Thanks very much Kirk.

I hope the following can clear things up for Ric >> We offer grubworm prevention to all customers. Some opt for it, and some do not. The last time this customer ordered grub prevent was 4 or 5 years ago. We have had no grubworm breakthrough this year on lawns that received a preventative treatment.

This customer also had several areas of yellow nutsedge when I was there yesterday, so I sprayed all of it while I was there at no charge. He spends lots of money with us including mowing, and the only time he ever calls is if he wants to order extra services. He also owns a couple of town home complexes in Ohio that suffered extensive Imprellis damage, and I feel sorry for him. This guy is very wealthy, yet he is always kind and respectful to us" lawn jockeys" -- basically a "dream customer" that most of us want.

I thought my post was prompt & timely. New information, and even included a pic (which most of us like). I sent this same info & (poor) pic to ISU yesterday. I just received an email from them thanking me for the report.

I do not feel "ashamed", and this customer's lawn was treated for grubworms first thing this morning.

Ric
09-13-2011, 07:56 PM
Ric

Why do you think he should be ashamed? If you are joking, that is fine, but if you are for real your just a jerk.

Kirk

Kirk

I am not joking. IMHO you either are a professional lawn care company that doesn't have Grub Problem because you take care of your customer or you are a hack. It costs me $ 18.00 an acre to prevent grubs. That is less than 41 cent a thousand sq ft for a years prevention. HELLO that isn't a fortune and no one should miss lunch over such a low cost. If your margin is so low that 41 cent makes a difference and you have to sell a separate grub program, then you are not much of a businessman.

Instead of spending a Fortune on TV advertisement trying to replace lost customers, Why not spend a small percent of TV advertisement cost on KEEPING CUSTOMERS.

Business is business no matter which industry. Customers are expensive to acquire but much cheaper to keep.

BTW If I had repeated Grub Problem year after year I sure wouldn't be posting it on the World Wide Web.

R & R Yard Designs
09-13-2011, 08:33 PM
Ric can you pm me when you can. I would like too ask you something.
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americanlawn
09-13-2011, 09:06 PM
Holy crap -- anybody buying what this guy is shoveling? The link below pretty much describes what most (responsible) green industry businesses are now doing (that I am aware of).

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/pme/IPM.html

Ric, it's time you put that bottle away, cuz you make less sense after each post. No need to keep trying to defend yourself, cuz we 'understand'. Plus...if I need you to run my business, I will contact you. Maybe I can feature you as a competitor in my latest TV ad -- now that's an idea. :laugh::laugh:

Ric
09-13-2011, 10:16 PM
Ric can you pm me when you can. I would like too ask you something.
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R&R

You can't PM me with your question???

R & R Yard Designs
10-18-2011, 02:10 PM
Yea we have damage now but it looks like June bug. What to do, what to do.
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americanlawn
10-18-2011, 07:22 PM
We had one yesterday. A 26,000 s/f irrigated lawn. Most grubs were fully grown, yet a few were not. We wanted to merely treat parts of the lawn, but the pest pressure was so widespread that we ended up applying Dylox to the entire lawn. 3 lbs per K. Just in time before their system was shut down.

Yea we have damage now but it looks like June bug. What to do, what to do.
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DA Quality Lawn & YS
10-18-2011, 08:03 PM
We had one yesterday. A 26,000 s/f irrigated lawn. Most grubs were fully grown, yet a few were not. We wanted to merely treat parts of the lawn, but the pest pressure was so widespread that we ended up applying Dylox to the entire lawn. 3 lbs per K. Just in time before their system was shut down.

Larry,

Can you post a pic of this damage. I would like to see it for comparison.

R & R Yard Designs
10-18-2011, 08:30 PM
I have about 100-200 sq ft. Out of 12 acres I don't think it is to bad.
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