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tcf4141
09-01-2011, 10:50 PM
Hey guys,

I have a 48" scag freedom z rider. We have one single click noise when turning the ignition key...anyone have any suggestions...here are some more details...

replaced solenoid
replaced battery
replaced voltage regulator
replaced stator
checked all safety switches
mower used to start by jumping it but now will not start at all

any help would be great, we have been dealing with this for months and now cant jump start it anymore so we might have to rent a mower for the weekend, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

StanWilhite
09-01-2011, 11:22 PM
Hey guys,

I have a 48" scag freedom z rider. We have one single click noise when turning the ignition key...anyone have any suggestions...here are some more details...

replaced solenoid
replaced battery
replaced voltage regulator
replaced stator
checked all safety switches
mower used to start by jumping it but now will not start at all

any help would be great, we have been dealing with this for months and now cant jump start it anymore so we might have to rent a mower for the weekend, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

Did you check to see if your PTO switch is on (engaged)?

tcf4141
09-01-2011, 11:26 PM
i checked, its not engaged

Curtis
09-01-2011, 11:26 PM
The ignition switch might have some corrosion, Scag parts are never cheap. Just changed mine only took 5 min.

tcf4141
09-01-2011, 11:29 PM
how do i change that switch? would it make sense tho that it used to start by jumping it and now it doesnt

StanWilhite
09-01-2011, 11:32 PM
how do i change that switch? would it make sense tho that it used to start by jumping it and now it doesnt

Could still be the switch. Turn the switch to the "on" position (not start) and jump a wire from the + side of the battery to the + side of the starter and see what happens.

tcf4141
09-01-2011, 11:38 PM
what does the + side of starter look like? starter right? not the solenoid?

elitelawnteam1
09-01-2011, 11:46 PM
I just rebuilt the starter on my tiger cub because it was making a "click" I took a look at purchasing a new starter, but it cost over $200:dizzy:

Regardless of it being a scag, a Freedom Z is designed for homeowners...just sayin

StanWilhite
09-01-2011, 11:53 PM
what does the + side of starter look like? starter right? not the solenoid?

It'll have a terminal w/the big wire from the battery going to it. Wire is probably red.

dahammer
09-02-2011, 01:28 AM
Tap on the starter with a hammer, then try to start it. Or tap on it while someone else tries to start it. A lot of times that's all it takes to get a starter that is on it's way out to spin. Don't pound it, just tap it.

StanWilhite
09-02-2011, 01:47 AM
It'll have a terminal w/the big wire from the battery going to it. Wire is probably red.

Guess I could have been more specific.

There will be a big wire (usually red) going from the positive (+) side of the battery to the solenoid, and from the solenoid to the starter. When you turn the key to "start", the solenoid (internally) connects the wire coming from the battery to the wire going to the starter. This is what makes the motor "turn over"....or "start".

By connecting the positive (+) side of the battery directly to the positive (+) side of the starter, you bypass the solenoid and put the battery's 12 volts directly to the starter.

If this is done and the key is in the "on" position, the engine will start (providing nothing else is wrong with it). This is the easiest way to check for a bad solenoid.

Since the first thing you normally do in a case like this is to clean all of the electrical connections, I assumed you had, but if you didn't, do that first. A big part of the time the problem will be bad (dirty) connections.

Headed to bed, good luck! Stan

TheOctagon
09-02-2011, 10:57 AM
I would check for 12 volts at the small wire connected to the solenoid when you turn the key. If you have 12 volts when the key is turned then also check to see if you get 12 volts on the output side of the solenoid( the side that connects to the starter) I just had a country clipper in that had a bad pto swtich and was causing just a click.

greenrhino72
09-02-2011, 08:19 PM
I have a 2007 scag tiger cub i bought used with 76 hours last month doing same thing.I think it might be the key switch but what do i know.Haven't checked anything yet because if i turn off and on a couple times it starts.

ed2hess
09-02-2011, 09:19 PM
I got a thread over in repair section on a Tiger Cub that had the clicking sound. I started with putting a battery helper on and it started. I could run a wire from battery to selenoid and it would start. Over several weeks I replaced the starter, the relay, the starter switch, cleaned the two in-line connectors and ran a second gnd just to be sure. It still clicked. So I took the 2/09 battery to ORiley and it checked fine.....I said not fine give me a new one. Took new battery home and it has worked for two weeks.
So I got a lot of good repair parts left for the future.....my unit had 2500 hrs.

greenrhino72
09-03-2011, 01:35 AM
guy that i got it from had replaced battery recently. Wonder if he had trouble before with it or the battery is bad or the magneto is not charging,or maybe battery is too small.Haven't used mower but couple times hardly have had any rain everythings brown and crunchy right now,

Richard Martin
09-03-2011, 05:45 AM
Did he show you the receipt for the new battery? Do you have another mower you can swap a battery out of? Check the battery and see how many volts it has. It should read at least 12.5 or higher.

JimQ
09-03-2011, 12:34 PM
I would check for 12 volts at the small wire connected to the solenoid when you turn the key (to the start position)....

I would agree. I just pulled a wiring diagram for your machine and looked at it. Assuming you have a good battery.

When the 12V+ leaves the key switch it has to pass through -

PTO Switch
Left Neutral Switch
Seat Switch
Right Neutral Switch

After a while each switch can build up some resistance and the total cumulative voltage drop can lower the voltage to a point where it will not engage the solenoid.

In my opinion, it's a bad electrical system design that most OEM's have adopted to save money on relays.

If you look at the specs for the switches that everyone in the industry uses, you'll see that they are only rated at 3 amps.

http://www.deltasystemsinc.com/Switches/Plunger/2PoleBolt.aspx

I can tell you that a starter solenoid draws almost 3 times that. It's also an inductive load (vs resistive). When you release the key from the start position, the magnetic field in the solenoid collapses and creates a voltage spike in circuit and arcing at the switch. (BTW, this is why you will find a diode in most clutch circuits...)

I have a machine with a big Vanguard on it. It was doing the same thing. I found a big cumulative drop like I described above. I wired up a starter relay to supply full voltage to the solenoid. Works great!

One more thing... Check your engine ground. I'm not sure how scag grounds the engine, but a bad engine ground will cause the same thing you're experiencing.

Good luck.

Q

Richard Martin
09-03-2011, 04:26 PM
In my opinion, it's a bad electrical system design that most OEM's have adopted to save money on relays.

If you look at the specs for the switches that everyone in the industry uses, you'll see that they are only rated at 3 amps.

http://www.deltasystemsinc.com/Switches/Plunger/2PoleBolt.aspx

I can tell you that a starter solenoid draws almost 3 times that.

Q

I'm installing nitrous on my Mustang right now. I ran into this same issue with my arming switch. I have a digital nitrous solenoid controller that calls for 30 amps but the provided toggle switch was only rated at 10 amps. Most people would just install the switch without ever even looking at it to make sure it's capable of carrying the needed current. So now what was supposed to be a fairly simple wire up is getting more complicated by needing 2 additional relays to carry the loads.

Here's an interesting addendum....

I looked at my mowers to see if they had the relay I was looking for. My Dixie uses a 30 amp relay for the seat switch that is perfect. Dixie Chopper's price is almost $10. I picked them up from a electrical supply store for under $3 each.

ed2hess
09-03-2011, 11:47 PM
After a while each switch can build up some resistance and the total cumulative voltage drop can lower the voltage to a point where it will not engage the solenoid.

My Scag has a relay but I guess I better take another look at all the places the 12 volts goes. Your statement explains why I could start the unit when I had a wire connected directly from the positive post but not thru the system. While I replaced a bunch of stuff and cleaned all the connectors guess I better search for more slightly bad stuff. Scag has that complicated interlock module thing that I don't understand. When I got the new battery Oriley told me my old battery was good.

Hoy landscaping
09-04-2011, 10:56 AM
The click is scags way of telling you somethings wrong. This spring my deck clutch went and i got the click, the dealer had a special bypass tool to get it to run. If you try to start it without sitting on the seat that stupid safety thing gives you the click. There is probably something wrong more then just having a dead battery or bad starter. Take it to your dealer.
-- Here is a hint, if you got to load it on your trailer without it running make sure you release the pressure on the wheel motors.

Brad
09-05-2011, 07:11 AM
If anyone would like a schematic for installing a Starter Assist Relay, PM or Email me with your email address and I'll send you a .pdf and .jpg file. These do NOT bypass any safeties when installed, just give the solenoid a full 12v. Cost will run in the vicinity of $0 to $10, depending on where you get your parts (junk yard/parts bin or purchase new at the auto parts store).