PDA

View Full Version : Valves for dirty water


ArTurf
09-08-2011, 01:49 PM
I have been working on a golf course that pumps from a pond. The valves that were used in the original install were 1" residential Buckner valves. I have replaced the top end and diaphragm in many of these. Until this point I have not worked on many systems that use dirty water. A few residential but they do not see the abuse a golf course system would. After checking I see valves designed for dirty water and higher pressures cost about 6-7 times more. At this point it would not be practical to replace all the valves. Needless to say but it would be safe to assume there would be less valve issues if the correct type valve would have been used. Not really a question here just sort of a vent and would like to hear from those who work with a lot of dirty water.

Wet_Boots
09-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Why is it not practical to replace the valves with Rainbird PEBS scrubber valves, as needed?

ArTurf
09-08-2011, 03:04 PM
Between 200-250 valves @ $80.00 each plus labor time and low to no budget. Just not gonna happen money wise.

If I have to replace the whole valve and not just the top end do you think it would be worth it to use the right valve?

Wet_Boots
09-08-2011, 03:33 PM
Not replace all at once, but if the water is an issue, to the point of a service call being needed, then there is a dollar cost to keeping the original clean-water valves.

Kiril
09-08-2011, 03:37 PM
I would agree with replacing with an appropriate valve when faced with a full valve rebuild. The only factor that might stop you from doing this would be if the valve can be removed from the manifold (if it exists) without rebuilding the entire manifold.

Wet_Boots
09-08-2011, 03:46 PM
Just curious, exactly what model of Buckner was used?

ArTurf
09-09-2011, 11:53 AM
Just curious, exactly what model of Buckner was used?

Can't find an exact model #. It has 4 bolts and was sold to Ewing which they now sell. I have been buying the Ewing valve for about $12 for parts.

To rebuild the valve takes about 10-15 min. To replace the valve would require digging up the valve box swing joint and head. They are all threaded together. Rough guess, about 1.5 hours.

Kiril,
The valves are not in a manifold. If something is broken and has to be dug up I may consider replacing the valve with something more appropriate.

I am thinking the water intake from pond could be optimized to draw in less debris/silt etc. Will suggest this to them. Can any of you give me suggestions on this?

Have any of you ever went to a manufacturers school? If you did was it worth it? I am considering attending one over the winter for golf course systems since I think I may end up servicing this system long term.

A little off subject but this system was converted to electric valves around 1998. If I had been bidding the job I would have used the right valve and naturally my price would have been higher and I would have probably not got the job. Just venting.

Wet_Boots
09-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Sounds like they might have done well to keep the hydraulic valves and replace controllers with standard equipment combined with the electric/hydraulic adapters that Toro makes. Normally-open hydraulic valves have no worries with dirty water.

Mike Leary
09-09-2011, 01:03 PM
I attended a lot of those schools/symposiums; some I learned from, others I feel asleep at. :sleeping:

stebs
09-09-2011, 02:21 PM
how do your costs compare between new valves and new valve-in-head irrigation heads?

ArTurf
09-09-2011, 02:30 PM
how do your costs compare between new valves and new valve-in-head irrigation heads?

Interesting thought, I might check into this. It would not save any labor though if I removed the old valve. I could leave the old valve in and leave in the manually on mode. There would be a little extra restriction but maybe not enough to matter.

Wet_Boots
09-09-2011, 02:37 PM
How many service calls per month do the Buckner valves create?

ArTurf
09-09-2011, 03:09 PM
How many service calls per month do the Buckner valves create?

I've been working on this course for about the last 2 months a few hours at a time trying to get everything working. Fixed a variety of things; breaks, heads, wiring,controller and valves. Can't really say how many valves fixes per month will show up until I get everything going and work on it long term. Ex superintendent says he spent the majority of his time working on the system and I can believe him. Fix one thing and 2 others show up. Constant battle, perhaps the nature of the beast on a golf course.

Wet_Boots
09-09-2011, 03:12 PM
If you are getting T&M then no worries payup

Mike Leary
09-09-2011, 04:44 PM
I've been working on this course for about the last 2 months a few hours at a time trying to get everything working. Fixed a variety of things; breaks, heads, wiring,controller and valves. Can't really say how many valves fixes per month will show up until I get everything going and work on it long term. Ex superintendent says he spent the majority of his time working on the system and I can believe him. Fix one thing and 2 others show up. Constant battle, perhaps the nature of the beast on a golf course.

Not the nature of the beast, those are old time valves and what seems like a low-ball, aged, install, where everything should have been replaced years ago. ;)

Wet_Boots
09-09-2011, 06:38 PM
We need to see a photo of one of these valves, and maybe a photo of a new one, taken apart.

Sprinkus
09-09-2011, 09:04 PM
Can you install a self cleaning screen (http://www.kleenscreen.com/) on the intake?

Mike Leary
09-09-2011, 10:07 PM
Can you install a self cleaning screen (http://www.kleenscreen.com/) on the intake?

Very cool, do you have to find rodents in your area to turn the screen?

Wet_Boots
09-09-2011, 10:17 PM
I think they disguise it as a log-rolling ride, and charge admission.

Sprinkus
09-09-2011, 10:37 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
I've only installed one of 'em and they are pretty cool.

ArTurf
09-10-2011, 09:37 AM
Can you install a self cleaning screen (http://www.kleenscreen.com/) on the intake?

Will suggest.

jvanvliet
09-11-2011, 10:41 AM
Why not install a particulate filter as opposed to messing around with valves.

We see a lot of dirty lake and canal water down here (as you can see). They come in different sizes and formats, disk and sand being more common (at least down my neck of the woods). You'll need to determine what is best for your site. Given the number of valves and volume of water, it sounds like you may want self cleaning sand filters.

I've installed disk filters on large HO residential common properties and sand on agricultural.

I don't have a pictures of the disk filters on residential, but here's one we installed a couple of years ago at an orange grove in Martin County about to be re-planted. Below that is a canal picture of the type of dirty water we typically encounter on a regular basis (yes we fixed the break).

Not all dirty water sites require filters. The canal site site on the bottom has Irritrol S-100 2" (scrubber) valves installed and is running Hunter PGP ADJ rotors. There's a lot of debate about these rotors, but they have been an economical and reliable dirty water head for me. I don't think they'll be adequate for a golf course, but FYI. We have not had any trouble with dirt or debris clogging the S-100 valves or the rotors.

Find more information here http://www.irrigationglobal.com/index.html

SPEEDSKI
09-11-2011, 10:49 AM
http://www.amiad.com/

Love these units. The TAF Series are the route we go for 10 hp pumps and under.