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Crist Clapper
09-17-2011, 07:51 PM
pH is good. Iron - No help. Nitrogen - No help.

I know this is vague… But I figured I had to start somewhere!

Help?

TLS
09-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Water poisoning.

Landscape Poet
09-17-2011, 07:56 PM
pH is good. Iron - No help. Nitrogen - No help.

I know this is vague… But I figured I had to start somewhere!

Help?

Could be lots of things. Fungus?
Overwatered?
Micro's missing to complete the picture? ETC ETC ETC.

Crist Clapper
09-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Irrigation with injector - Municipal water.

Crist Clapper
09-17-2011, 08:31 PM
Photographs:

TLS
09-17-2011, 08:39 PM
Hard to tell, but it looks to be two different types of grass.

Did you recently seed?

I would guess annual rye, or perhaps poa popping up with the cooler temps.

Crist Clapper
09-17-2011, 09:05 PM
From: Penn State Turf [psu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2011 12:13 PM
To: Crist D. Clapper
Subject: RE: Grass Type Analysis
Importance: High

Crist: The grass specimen submitted on 7/14 appears to be Kentucky Bluegrass. The grass blade is narrow with a boat shaped tip. It does not have auricles and the ligules are membranous with a smooth margin.

Sincerely,

Tom F.
Blair County Extension Director &
Area Commercial Horticulture Educator

Crist Clapper
09-17-2011, 09:15 PM
No recent seeding. Problem is all-Season.

Hard to tell, but it looks to be two different types of grass.

Did you recently seed?

I would guess annual rye, or perhaps poa popping up with the cooler temps.

agrostis
09-17-2011, 09:44 PM
That grass looks too dense. Overcrowding will cause season long yellowing.

TLS
09-18-2011, 08:43 AM
Yes, the dark green grass is likely KBG.

But the light green I would venture to say is not KBG, but rather an annual or perennial rye or poa annua.

Crist Clapper
09-18-2011, 09:20 AM
Two tests; One each of green and yellow grasses. This initiated the application/testing of iron, sulfur, and Solubor.
Penn State recommendation: The only two testing parameters of concern are iron and boron. Iron will become deficient when the soil pH is too high. Acid injection lowers the soil pH and makes the iron more readily available for uptake by the turf. Another option which may be more of a temporary fix calls for an application of iron sulfate at a rate of 4 ounces per 100 gallons of water to the turf. This material needs to be washed off of the turf after application to prevent burning.

Boron deficiency is easy to correct, but it can also be tied to soils which have an elevated pH. Symptoms of Boron deficiency in wheat are often expressed as a yellowing or chlorosis of the leaf tissues. The product Solubor can be applied to crops/turf displaying deficiency symptoms to correct the problem. Consider one application of Solubor to the turf to bring up Boron levels in the tissues. If you lower soil pH with the iron sulfate or through acid injection from the irrigation system you may also increase Boron uptake by the turf.

TLS
09-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Was this light green turf present LAST October?

Was this light green turf present in July of this year?

And when were the two pictures taken above?

Get a close up of the green and light green blades for comparison.

Crist Clapper
09-18-2011, 06:46 PM
The light turf has been present for many years. I have always been told pH was the culprit. Sulfuric acid in the injector, and sulfur pellets if needed... pH has tested from 8.2(spring) to 6.6 this summer; Around 7.1 now. Problem exists at all pH levels.

FYI: Core-aeration in spring/fall - Thatched in spring

Help???

1st: Dark
2nd: Light

Was this light green turf present LAST October?

Was this light green turf present in July of this year?

And when were the two pictures taken above?

Get a close up of the green and light green blades for comparison.

32vld
09-18-2011, 07:28 PM
Yes, the dark green grass is likely KBG.

But the light green I would venture to say is not KBG, but rather an annual or perennial rye or poa annua.


How do you get rid of the annual or perennial rye or poa annua?

ReddensLawnCare
09-18-2011, 07:33 PM
Sharpen your blades first off....and second..have you tried and fungicides..if nothing else for S&Gs

ReddensLawnCare
09-18-2011, 07:34 PM
Do a test to see if you have any grubs as well

TLS
09-19-2011, 06:32 AM
Crist,

Nothing wrong with your yard.

You simply have two different species of grass.

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 11:23 AM
Blades are good... The (wet) weather is not! :) Daconil and Manicure.

Sharpen your blades first off....and second..have you tried and fungicides..if nothing else for S&Gs

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Done: Merit. :)

Do a test to see if you have any grubs as well

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Interesting... What makes you think this? All information welcome! As for the two turf tests I posted from Penn State... Both the dark and light samples came back a Kentucky-Blue.

Your thoughts?

Thanks, Crist

Crist,

Nothing wrong with your yard.

You simply have two different species of grass.

ReddensLawnCare
09-19-2011, 11:37 AM
Just FYI, my blade comment came from looking at those final pics..those blade tips are really ripped. If you havent sharpened your blades since then, your blades are not sharp enough or blade speed is way to low. JMO

Kiril
09-19-2011, 11:57 AM
Have you considered that dumping all that synthetic crap on your lawn is causing the problem? One would think if this is a nutrient issue you would see more uniform discoloring. Have you tested the soil? Plant tissue analysis is only one part of the picture.

Skipster
09-19-2011, 01:13 PM
I'm going to ask a different question. Has there been any seeding done recently?

When seeding too heavily, plants compete with each other for resources and don't mature very well. This could also introduce different cultivars of the same species, which may have color variations.

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 07:16 PM
My apologies... I didn't mean to dismiss your suggestion. My blades were just sharpened. Because of the rain lately... I have had to mow when wet. I thought mowing wet can also cause ripping? Blade-speed too slow... I'll have to check! Thanks, Crist


Just FYI, my blade comment came from looking at those final pics..those blade tips are really ripped. If you havent sharpened your blades since then, your blades are not sharp enough or blade speed is way to low. JMO

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 07:30 PM
Yes I have! None of the local big lawn service-providers (in this area) offer an organic program. And the smaller folks don't understand organic.

The Penn State turf folks have been on-site and did soil testing. Nothing too out of kilter.

FYI: The consensus from Penn State was my pH was too high. With the addtion of the injector and me testing weekly... Didn't seem to correct the problem.


Have you considered that dumping all that synthetic crap on your lawn is causing the problem? One would think if this is a nutrient issue you would see more uniform discoloring. Have you tested the soil? Plant tissue analysis is only one part of the picture.

Crist Clapper
09-19-2011, 07:39 PM
Hadn't considered this before...

I did re-seed last Spring after core-aeration. By far... What is most confusing to me is that both the light and dark blades are Kentucky blue.

Does your theory fit?

I'm going to ask a different question. Has there been any seeding done recently?

When seeding too heavily, plants compete with each other for resources and don't mature very well. This could also introduce different cultivars of the same species, which may have color variations.

Kiril
09-19-2011, 09:43 PM
Yes I have! None of the local big lawn service-providers (in this area) offer an organic program. And the smaller folks don't understand organic.

The Penn State turf folks have been on-site and did soil testing. Nothing too out of kilter.

FYI: The consensus from Penn State was my pH was too high. With the addtion of the injector and me testing weekly... Didn't seem to correct the problem.

Do you have the results? Trying to fight your soils natural pH is a non-stop battle. You would be better off finding/using a turf that is suited for your soils rather than trying to make your soil suitable for a particular turf.

There are many different varieties of KBG. If the Penn State ID didn't differentiate between different varieties, then that is your most likely explanation for this color difference even if this has been going on for many years. Easiest way to fix it IMO is to vertimow and overseed with the same variety until you get better uniformity.

David Haggerty
09-20-2011, 07:10 AM
At first I thought it was the light color of juvenile grass in a growth spurt. But your close up shows the plants are mature. So you've already established that it's not the nutrients, weeds or species of grass. What's left is the thatch layer. Do a core test on the green area and compare it to the yellow area. Is it the same thickness? It's got to relate to the uptake of nutrients & water. Try to count the number of grass plants in each of the areas.
I'd have thought the core aeration would have evened out the areas. Maybe you need to drag coarse sand into the core holes to help out the penetration of nutrients & water.

I've seen over managed turf that was so dependent on surface feeding that it had no roots at all. You could lift it up like a carpet. My big mowers sucked it up and shot it out the discharge chute! The customer was livid! I said "HEY! It's not my fault! I didn't over feed it!"

Crist Clapper
09-24-2011, 08:42 PM
All: I gathered up your observations/suggestions and forwarded them to my Penn State guy. It seems you were all right. I just was not getting it. My thanks for the help! Here is the response(s) from Penn State:


Crist: It may be cultivar related and not fertility related. Consider an application of Milorganite the next time you fertilize. It has iron and other micronutrients that may enhance greening………..

From: PennStateTurf
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:37 AM
To: Crist D. Clapper
Subject: RE: Turf Question(s)
Importance: High

Crist: The photos show a couple of things:

1) The dark turf appears to be Kentucky bluegrass
2) The light turf which appears shiny in the photograph appears to be perennial ryegrass
3) If you look at the tip of the cut leaf blades in both photos you will notice that the edges are more ragged in the light turf than the dark turf. Perennial ryegrass is tougher texturally and requires that the mower blades be sharpened very frequently. Leaf blades that are tattered are more susceptible to disease.
4) Both photographs contain some grass plants which are displaying disease symptoms. Fungicides may help alleviate the symptoms.

Sincerely,

Tom F.
Blair County Extension Director &
Area Commercial Horticulture Educator
Penn State Cooperative Extension