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tadpole
09-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Posted a thread on the Water Feature forum titled "Is the Water Feature industry putting us in a hole?"

I would love to hear comments from you guys.

Stuttering Stan
09-21-2011, 02:13 PM
Can you be more specific regarding your topic? What kind of hole are you referring to?

Stuttering Stan
09-21-2011, 02:32 PM
Below is Tadpole's discussion from the pond forum:



One of the pond associations' trade shows this year is being held in
conjunction with an irrigation association's trade show. On the surface this may not seem like anything that one would get concerned about. When the true reason behind this cooperative effort is revealed, it becomes (or should become) a matter of concern for all established Water Feature contractors. It seems that the manufacturers and distributors are using this as a means to recruit new installers from the irrigation trade. In this weakened and shaky economy, this may help protect the bottom line for manufacturers and distributors, it will certainly not help we veteran Water Feature contractors. The current market for Water Features is already weak and has all but disappeared in some demographic areas. Adding "new installers" just dilutes the market even more and could force some skilled craftsmen out of business. At a time that project quality should be improving, this move, if it has any modicum of success, will severely compromise the overall quality of Waterscape installations, especially aquatic habitats.

What are your thoughts on this industry trend?

P.S. No disrespect intended for our friends in the irrigation forum, but I think that they can see my point.

tadpole
09-21-2011, 02:34 PM
Can you be more specific regarding your topic? What kind of hole are you referring to?

Did you read the original thread on the Pond Forum?

Would you feel 'Peachy Keen' if the irrigation manufacturers and distributors started actively recruiting new Irrigation installers from, let's say, all of the Arborists in the country?

Wet_Boots
09-21-2011, 02:58 PM
Is this like the artificial putting-green providers recruiting from the irrigation guys? :)

txirrigation
09-21-2011, 04:17 PM
Did you read the original thread on the Pond Forum?

Would you feel 'Peachy Keen' if the irrigation manufacturers and distributors started actively recruiting new Irrigation installers from, let's say, all of the Arborists in the country?

No disrespect here... but most irrigation contractors around here would not touch an pond with a ten foot pole. I might sub it out if the home owner wanted a package deal, but I have to pay my guys way to much to get involved in a non-licensed trade.

I would never pull a irrigation crew to install a pond, and I think that goes for just about anyone that runs a high volume irrigation company.

tadpole
09-21-2011, 04:34 PM
No disrespect here... but most irrigation contractors around here would not touch an pond with a ten foot pole. I might sub it out if the home owner wanted a package deal, but I have to pay my guys way to much to get involved in a non-licensed trade.

I would never pull a irrigation crew to install a pond, and I think that goes for just about anyone that runs a high volume irrigation company.

No offense taken. I have long felt that the Water Feature business, especially Ponds (of any kind) should be regulated and standardized. Frankly I am surprised that it isn't. Its not like local or state governments to overlook a source of revenue.

Wet_Boots
09-21-2011, 06:16 PM
What is the average dollar cost of a water feature? Many locales have a dollar threshold, no matter what the project (not that it makes that big a difference)

tadpole
09-21-2011, 06:42 PM
What is the average dollar cost of a water feature? Many locales have a dollar threshold, no matter what the project (not that it makes that big a difference)

I'm not sure that you could come up with an average cost for a Water Feature anymore than you could determine the average cost of an irrigation install; too many variables and options.

My original point is, given the present economy and the resulting scarcity of new Water Feature installs, attempting to add more "installers" can only hurt the true professional Water Feature craftsmen These are the same individuals that have built the Water Feature niche industry through time and innovation. Now some of the companies that have benefited from this labor are willing to handicap them even further than the economy has to maybe protect their bottom line. What happened to good old fashioned loyalty?

Wet_Boots
09-21-2011, 06:50 PM
I can see what you're getting at - I had someone inquire after an aerating fountain, and I decided they could shop online and beat the price I might get as a rank outsider to this niche.

Kiril
09-21-2011, 11:35 PM
Residential and commercial water features and irrigation will all but disappear in the not so distant future.... get out while you can. If water features is the only shirt you wear ... then better start shopping for more shirts. The things in a landscape that will disappear as time goes by .... in order are ..... water features, closely followed by lighting & hardscaping, then irrigation, then lawns.

Wet_Boots
09-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Lawns are not going away, you silly. Just what do you expect to replace them? Tennis courts? Swimming pools? Rocks?

starry night
09-21-2011, 11:44 PM
Residential and commercial water features and irrigation will all but disappear in the not so distant future.... get out while you can. If water features is the only shirt you wear ... then better start shopping for more shirts. The things in a landscape that will disappear as time goes by .... in order are ..... water features, closely followed by lighting & hardscaping, then irrigation, then lawns.

And then cars and homes and clothes. C'mon all. Let's get ready for basic,
sustainable existence.

Kiril
09-21-2011, 11:47 PM
Lawns are not going away, you silly. Just what do you expect to replace them? Tennis courts? Swimming pools? Rocks?

Try growing a lawn in an area that requires irrigation. Out here .... take away the water and the regionally inappropriate "landscape" pretty much dies ... the lawn being one of the first to go. The only lawns you will see are those that are in areas that need no supplemental water and do not require huge investments of money to maintain.

People also used to think those who said the earth was round were silly (and raving insane). Silly ..... heh?

Kiril
09-21-2011, 11:57 PM
C'mon all. Let's get ready for basic,
sustainable existence.

You have the right idea. :waving:

Wet_Boots
09-22-2011, 12:01 AM
If California goes back to a desert climate, it should help solve overpopulation problems. Beyond that, there must be fire concerns if you let your property go "natural"

Kiril
09-22-2011, 12:05 AM
Get ready .....

Kiril
09-22-2011, 12:08 AM
If California goes back to a desert climate, it should help solve overpopulation problems. Beyond that, there must be fire concerns if you let your property go "natural"

When money and resources are tight, which luxury item (for those that even own homes) will be the first to go? The landscape or a roof over your head and water to drink? You are already starting to see it .... witness this thread and many others complaining about loss of clients and work.

SPEEDSKI
09-22-2011, 12:37 AM
No disrespect here... but most irrigation contractors around here would not touch an pond with a ten foot pole. I might sub it out if the home owner wanted a package deal, but I have to pay my guys way to much to get involved in a non-licensed trade.

I would never pull a irrigation crew to install a pond, and I think that goes for just about anyone that runs a high volume irrigation company.

I agree with you.

Here is my issue with the Distributers and it has been going down for the last 8 years or more.

Every lawn boy that walks into the store (JDL) and they ask for information on a irrigation contactor, down swoops "Super Salesman" that wants to set this 1-3 man mowing guy up to do irrigation!

"We can help you, do take off's for you, come to our class and Hell....we will even come flag the job and help you.

Instead of giving the guy a quality contactors name and number, now we have another newbie who thinks he hit the jack pot with this irrigation stuff.

The only good to come out of this crap economy is it has weeded out all the guys that had no business being in business.

mitchgo
09-22-2011, 01:11 AM
We offer a very simple water feature cleaning service during our slow times

Mainly re-organizing rocks.. Picking up large debris, washing off rocks/debris with a hose and then pump out the washed down debris and replace water

I don't think lawns are going away anytime soon.. Someday yes? Not in my lifetime though. At least my neck of the woods..

Politics would be the biggest leading factor in something like that changing.. And at this moment as much as water conservation is important- it's at the low end of priority in the political world.

Kiril
09-22-2011, 01:28 AM
Politics would be the biggest leading factor in something like that changing.. And at this moment as much as water conservation is important- it's at the low end of priority in the political world.

It won't be when potable water becomes more valuable than oil.

mitchgo
09-22-2011, 02:56 AM
word. Dana is a witness to this with his water rates over the past few years

Just got my water bill for 7/15 - 9/15

Used 65 CCF on almost 1/2 acre ( hehe I over water a tad.. But I'm SOOO green)

Bill @ 244.75

30 Miles NE of where I live.. If I lived there my water bill would be $3,081.53


I actually just fully a restored a 2 acre lot 28 zone system ( $2,500 abouts in T&M in repairs) that hasn't been touched in years. New homeowner.. I told him about his rates.. Sad thing is you have to have 5 acres to have a well drilled in that area.