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Sprinkus
09-23-2011, 09:39 AM
Anyone else had this happen?
I never use these valves for installs but the existing front yard already had them installed. Figured I'd try to keep the valves all the same.
My guy glued a piece of sch 40 into the valve and heard a "crack". He pulled the pipe back out and this is what we found.
I put a piece of pipe in there to hold the crack open for the picture.
This is one of two valves that cracked. I returned them and installed my go to valves instead.

Kiril
09-23-2011, 09:53 AM
I've had that happen on glue fittings before. The only thing I can think that could have caused it (other than a defective fitting) was dull cutters created a lip which exerted too much pressure on the fitting when inserted. At least it cracked immediately and not a couple of days after you pulled off the job.

Wet_Boots
09-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Were the front-yard valves also slip connections? As for a lip on the pipe end, you should be beveling those.

Kiril
09-23-2011, 11:11 AM
As for a lip on the pipe end, you should be beveling those.

Not gonna happen on 1" and under pipe.

Wet_Boots
09-23-2011, 12:08 PM
I bevel every single end, but this is for manifold construction and 24/7 pressurization plus water hammer.

One other thing bothers me about that valve. It looks like they just re-used the mold of the older threaded-end valve, and modified it for slip connections. But maybe that isn't a problem if the molding is done properly. The threaded-end valves are made of a different (friendlier) plastic than the slip valves.

FIMCO-MEISTER
09-23-2011, 12:26 PM
Looks like the chinese changed things on a WM product again.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
09-23-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm thinking it is just a TX thing.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
09-23-2011, 12:50 PM
It's a freakin Weathermatic! That explains it right there. You could at least use a Rain Bird DV. Sure there is a 95% chance that it won't ever turn off but at least the body won't crack! :dancing:

Wet_Boots
09-23-2011, 01:04 PM
PVC must be trickier stuff to mold than other common plastics, as witness the lack of competition for Richdel, in its early days.

Mike Leary
09-23-2011, 03:54 PM
Something about slip valves bothers me.

Wet_Boots
09-23-2011, 04:03 PM
My gripe is that you can't swap out a defective valve body from a manifold, which in my case would really be a problem.http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg

jvanvliet
09-23-2011, 06:31 PM
My gripe is that you can't swap out a defective valve body from a manifold, which in my case would really be a problem.http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg

GACK, is that your handywork? I take it you weren't planning on coming back to this particular job site.

As an aside, I'm not so sure I'd ever put in a valve I had to glue in, threaded only and then only Irritrol or Rainbird.

Chinese CRAP... not made to US specs and then each Chinese manufacturer has a slightly different understanding what US specs are. I've gotten Chinese fittings and the SCD 40 just turns freely inside. I'm afraid to glue it. Now I have to check that the pipe will fit securely in the fittings before I buy bulk. I'll be FUBARED when they start making PVC pipe...

Kiril
09-23-2011, 08:26 PM
I've gotten Chinese fittings and the SCD 40 just turns freely inside. I'm afraid to glue it.

The gray fittings are for electrical conduit. :hammerhead: :laugh:

Sprinkus
09-24-2011, 12:46 PM
Pipe was beveled and the inlets on the valves did not appear out of round.
:confused:

Hydrostatic tests prove Nitro resistance to cracking (http://www.weathermatic.com/files/Literature/Valves/Valves%20-%20N-100%20Series.pdf) at over 700 psi?

Mike Leary
09-24-2011, 12:58 PM
I've gotten Chinese fittings and the SCD 40 just turns freely inside. I'm afraid to glue it. Now I have to check that the pipe will fit securely in the fittings before I buy bulk. I'll be FUBARED when they start making PVC pipe...

I've had problems with both Dura fittings and off-brand pvc pipe being too small or too large. Once I went to Spears/Lasco fittings and quality PVC pipe, problems went away. :clapping:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
09-24-2011, 01:55 PM
I've had problems with both Dura fittings and off-brand pvc pipe being too small or too large. Once I went to Spears/Lasco fittings and quality PVC pipe, problems went away. :clapping:

I really try to avoid every brand except for Spears. They make the best fittings in the induxtry IMO

Wet_Boots
09-24-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't remember any problems with Lasco or Dura, although the last few marlex ells from Dura lacked the "interference fit" that I look for to ease the positioning of the arc, not that ratcheting heads make that increasingly less important.

jvanvliet
09-24-2011, 06:55 PM
Unfortunately I don't have much choice in selection :cry:. There are only two supply houses within reasonable distance of me. I have to buy what they are stocking or go to (gasp) home depot or lowes, their crap is bound to be made in the freedom and peace loving socialist republic of China.

When I have a choice I prefer Lasco, that's all Killpatric carried until they were bought out by Horizon and now they want to be a big box company, all things to all people. You can tell their product line is going down hill when they start carrying K-Rain valves (made in China) and they have to special order Irritrol :hammerhead:.

jvanvliet
09-24-2011, 07:01 PM
The gray fittings are for electrical conduit. :hammerhead: :laugh:

Gray fittings? WTF R U talking about :dizzy: I know the difference between SCD 80 & SCD 40. Does that mean I shouldn't use a gray fitting for irrigation, ever?

Wet_Boots
09-24-2011, 07:02 PM
http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpgGACK, is that your handywork? I take it you weren't planning on coming back to this particular job site.Oh ye of little faith - those manifolds last and last (knock wood) ~ Thank you Richdel

jvanvliet
09-24-2011, 07:15 PM
Oh ye of little faith - those manifolds last and last (knock wood) ~ Thank you Richdel

At least until after your warrant expires right? :laugh:

Wet_Boots
09-24-2011, 07:45 PM
some of the inspiration (or blame) goes to Lloyd King, who made a very good PVC manifold tee and manifold cross, that just happened to give you room to unthread a Richdel R204 valve, when the fittings were glued together in the manner shown - when those fittings went off the market, I 'rolled my own' with sch 40 tees/crosses and sch 80 TOE nipples

Kiril
09-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Gray fittings? WTF R U talking about :dizzy: I know the difference between SCD 80 & SCD 40. Does that mean I shouldn't use a gray fitting for irrigation, ever?

Electrical conduit fittings (gray) are different in that they are not tapered. WTF R U Talkin' abut?

jvanvliet
09-25-2011, 07:34 AM
Electrical conduit fittings (gray) are different in that they are not tapered. WTF R U Talkin' abut?

Does that apply to SCD 80 threaded nipples & SCD 80 threaded unions too? I don't use SCD 80 slip fittings on SCD 40 pipe.

Kiril
09-25-2011, 10:54 AM
Does not apply to any pressure rated PVC fittings. Electrical conduit fittings only.

Ric
09-25-2011, 11:36 AM
GACK, is that your handywork? I take it you weren't planning on coming back to this particular job site.

As an aside, I'm not so sure I'd ever put in a valve I had to glue in, threaded only and then only Irritrol or Rainbird.

Chinese CRAP... not made to US specs and then each Chinese manufacturer has a slightly different understanding what US specs are. I've gotten Chinese fittings and the SCD 40 just turns freely inside. I'm afraid to glue it. Now I have to check that the pipe will fit securely in the fittings before I buy bulk. I'll be FUBARED when they start making PVC pipe...

jvanvliet

I caught this thread my mistake. I normally don't read the Irrigation forum. But lets us at least give Wet Boots credit for not stacking his manifold Vertical like I have seen others do. It always amazed me when I have seen some of these Short Bus installs. It makes me wonder now these guys find their way home. Sorry but if I had a tech do an install like that. It would simply be the last one he ever did for me. At least put longer nipples in so the Valve bodies could be changed. Grant you 99% of the time you only need to change the guts. But what about that 1 %??????? With that many valves you have a better change of having one bad one that doesn't show up until you test the system.

I got out of the Irrigation part of the business when $ 1100.00 City water hooks up became common in my area. These were 3 zone system on 8 zone property. Service calls where a nightmare because no matter what you did Coverage was impossible to get. It started with a price war between two jerks.

BTW Here in Florida we don't have frozen ground or do we drain Irrigation systems for the winter. I would think with the Freeze line being as deep as it is in NY you would want to design for easier maintenance. Oops Never Mind. I forgot NY is a Blue State and could care less about the future generations.

Wet_Boots
09-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Spinning out a valve from within the box was never a priority on any install I ever saw, even before I undertook install work myself. If it were, we would all be using male-end valves and union fittings.

Obviously, there is a high degree of trust in the valve bodies not needing to be replaced {knock wood :hammerhead:}

Mike Leary
09-25-2011, 01:23 PM
The only time I've ever replaced a W*M valve body is when we've put WAAAY too much air into the system.

jvanvliet
09-25-2011, 01:30 PM
Does not apply to any pressure rated PVC fittings. Electrical conduit fittings only.

Thank you, as always, you are entirely correct.

jvanvliet
09-25-2011, 02:36 PM
The only time I've ever replaced a W*M valve body is when we've put WAAAY too much air into the system.

We don't use air to blow out the valves, :laugh:

Usually the building contractors economy T and discount house thrust block give way first.

Wet_Boots
09-25-2011, 03:31 PM
that's a thrust block? ;)

Mike Leary
09-25-2011, 03:47 PM
We don't use air to blow out the valves, :laugh:

Usually the building contractors economy T and discount house thrust block give way first.

That's just lovely! :hammerhead:

jvanvliet
09-25-2011, 07:44 PM
(Deadhead) South Florida special; sewer T in a high presure irrigation line; capped off, with a cinder block set as a thrust block to keep the nipple from blowing out of the T.

One of the reasons I love it down here, few things are done properly and shortcuts abound; as long as $hit breaks, my maintenance company gets to fix it :clapping:

Ric
09-26-2011, 09:33 AM
Spinning out a valve from within the box was never a priority on any install I ever saw, even before I undertook install work myself. If it were, we would all be using male-end valves and union fittings.

Obviously, there is a high degree of trust in the valve bodies not needing to be replaced {knock wood :hammerhead:}

WET

My degree of trust in the valves is not the concern. As I said in my first post we change out the guts 99% of the time. But I Don't trust the landscapers Skid Steer steer or truck etc that does mechanical damage. They might pay for repair, but the time to redo it is Huge. Oh sure you have your valve in a safe place in fact so safe they are planting a tree beside it. What about Freeze heave??

Our Florida Sand is soft but it never freezes or shifts because of freezing. I have had the Nightmare of rebuilding manifolds so I always designed them a little more spread out. I never liked to run a main line and spread the Valve out all over the yard where they where hard to find even with my 521 or a clicker.

Sorry I don't agree with your work or your Liberal politics.

FIMCO-MEISTER
09-26-2011, 10:06 AM
I believe in giving each valve its individual space. Don't like to see valves grouped in a socialist manner.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
09-26-2011, 10:28 AM
if a valve box is in an area with vehicle traffic, one might have different priorities - traffic aside, the priorities are "will it endure, and can it be serviced" - if those conditions are met, any onlookers with offended sensibilities can go take a flying leap

Mike Leary
09-26-2011, 12:44 PM
WET
Sorry I don't agree with your Liberal politics.

Politics have no place on this forum, take your comments elsewhere. :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
09-26-2011, 01:19 PM
Thinking again on vehicles damaging a manifold. If the box and lid aren't broken, then what damage? Surely no one but the most blatant hack actually has the box touching the tops of any pipes entering or leaving the enclosure. This is why real pro work is done with full-depth boxes, with slots cut so as to provide an inch or so of clearance above the pipes.

jvanvliet
09-26-2011, 06:49 PM
if a valve box is in an area with vehicle traffic, one might have different priorities - traffic aside, the priorities are "will it endure, and can it be serviced" - if those conditions are met, any onlookers with offended sensibilities can go take a flying leap

I replaced these boxes about two months ago. They are not in a traffic area, the damage was done by the lawn crews over time. Much more traffic and the valves (3" Irritrol 100 3PS; very expensive) would have sustained damage, at least to the bonnet.

This is not unusual in S. FL and one of the reasons I don't glue in valves or gang valves on a manifold so I can't spin them out if I have to.

That's what Ric is talking about; S. Florida is not like any other part of the country.

Oh, the boots haven't incurred any damage yet since I was forced to get rid of the other ones because duct tape doesn't hold up well in the S. FL monsoon season.

Wet_Boots
09-26-2011, 07:01 PM
you should be using concrete boxes for the expensive work in the insubstantial soils - mister homeowner can have antisyphon valves, and like it

PS - that looks like a crap box you get at the home center

Mike Leary
09-26-2011, 07:08 PM
Wow! Someone's got some nice new boots, biz must be doing well. :clapping:

jvanvliet
09-26-2011, 07:13 PM
you should be using concrete boxes for the expensive work in the insubstantial soils - mister homeowner can have antisyphon valves, and like it

PS - that looks like a crap box you get at the home center

I didn't put them in. Concrete is a good idea but not practical since the HOA is not likely to spring for the expense, we have 36 of them in the ground in various places.

Don't know any home owners with 3" valves... yet:rolleyes:

jvanvliet
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Wow! Someone's got some nice new boots, biz must be doing well. :clapping:

Making a fortune replacing all these F-ing field boxes :cool2:

Wet_Boots
09-26-2011, 07:32 PM
I didn't put them in. Concrete is a good idea but not practical since the HOA is not likely to spring for the expense, we have 36 of them in the ground in various places.

Don't know any home owners with 3" valves... yet:rolleyes:I'm talking installation technique in soft soils. What some jackleg buffoon installed for low-bid money is in no way relevant to what makes a good install.

jvanvliet
09-26-2011, 07:53 PM
I'm talking installation technique in soft soils. What some jackleg buffoon installed for low-bid money is in no way relevant to what makes a good install.

No argument there; welcome to the Sunshine State :dizzy: