PDA

View Full Version : big job to bid need help


DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 01:23 PM
ok so i got a job to bid on at a universtiy down the road. They are asking for 457 plants trees shrubs etc, plus two paver patios at the top of some stairs on on the north end and one on the south end of the building. One patio is 22 long by 16.6 ft wide. and th other is 22 long by 18.6 ft wide. how can i determine labor for planting plus to do the pavers. I know that i need 44 yards of aggregate material and 3 yards of sand. thanks for the advice. biggest job i have ever bid on.

DavesLL
09-24-2011, 03:24 PM
Same as any other bid. You have to do some estimating, and some math.

Materials, find a supplier. Sum cost of mats, including delivery fees. Tack on your upcharge (if any) for them.

Each part of the job, estimate the required labor (in hours). Sum all hours, multiply by your labor rate. For any part of the job, add the cost (either your hourly for use of it, or the rental cost of it) of any specific machinery needed such as bobcats, augers, etc...

Sum everything from above together, that's your bid. Want to be fancy? In the above, sum only actual costs (i.e., actual supply cost, actual labor cost, actual overhead cost). That gives you the basement breakeven bid. Anything above that is your profit / wiggle room for problems.

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 03:31 PM
thanks but the problem is i have never platned that many things at once or done two patios that size so how can you do the math to figure out that. the aggregate materials is 18 in deep, then 1 in of sand/cement it calls for the the pavers which will need to cut some of them for the design. I think you looking at almost two weeks worth of labor for planting, grading the patio, cutting everything as you go, and so on.

360 Lawn Service
09-24-2011, 04:23 PM
Break the job down into sizes you have completed in the past. This will give you an idea of what to charge to make a profit. When I do this I estimate the first break down normally, then charge 90% on the rest of the break down. This is because we will already be on site.
Posted via Mobile Device

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 05:11 PM
ok so im figuring 5 days to do all the plants shrubs and trees for labor. then im going to figure 5 more days to do the patios and add two extra days on just in case it rains, or if i need a little more time for cushin.

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 05:18 PM
i figured that because i have a chart that brakes it down on what they want and i just looked at it and figured so many plants for each day

Gilmore.Landscaping
09-24-2011, 06:57 PM
I am a little lost on the planting part of this. Its only 460 plants, how can that take you 5 days? Do you have make new plant beds and all that? or just adding to existing beds? And how many trees vs. shrubs. anything up to 5 gal containers will go in really fast. trees maybe a little longer.

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 07:03 PM
because on some of the examples are 7 red sunset maples 9 heritage river birch, 1 robin hill serviceberry, 4 balsam firs, 2 whit spruce pg1, 4 white spruce pg 2, 55 sweet gales, 10 dwarf fothergilla, 111 little bluestem 50 blue ox grass and so on and so on but they are all spread out over the campus plus some of the trees are 5 to 15 ft tall.

Darryl G
09-24-2011, 07:39 PM
Just curious....weren't you going to move down south? How are you going to warranty the plants if you're not here?

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 07:45 PM
we arnt moving now because its to risky with the economy the way it is.

DiSantolandscaping
09-24-2011, 07:49 PM
right now im worrying about getting my business up and going. I am obviously out of luck with mowing lawns till spring time but im working on buying tools and stuff to prepare for the end of feb march rush to bid jobs.

ReddensLawnCare
09-24-2011, 10:56 PM
DiSanto...please dont take this the wrong way, but I think you need to take a step back and look at things. I have read most of your post on here since you began posting. The past ones that I can remember was the one about the hospital, the casino, and now this. Here is my concern, justified or not. I really dont think you have the experience you need to do work of this size or magnitude. Have you EVER done a paver patio? How many trees have you planted. Plantings are very simple, if you know what you are doing. If not, it can be a very costly mistake. And patios, without experience, are very easy to mess up. They may look good at first, but give it one season of frost heave up there, and done incorrectly, and it will ruin your rep. So what I am saying is take a step back and really identify your business, and who you want to serve. If you want to do mowing/maintenance first, start with that. Landscape and hardscape..start with that. IT is very costly to start both, and in order to do jobs efficiently, you need to either rent the equipment or spend a lot of money. I can tell you, if I had the opp to bid on this project, I would rent a dingo for a few days to develop the beds, and then get a tree auger bit and punch all my holes. I would probably sub out the patios, as I have only done one, and it was with help.
I can tell you are not afraid to learn, and try, I respect that, but If you try to do to much, and grow to fast to quick, then you will fail. Not maybe, you will.
As far as building up equipment to get ready for bid rush, be careful with that. Dont buy on expectations to much. When I went from a walk behind to a ztr, the decision was a huge one for me as that was the first time my business went in debt. I have almost got it paid off from this spring so it worked out, but I got the work, then the equipment.
Once again, dont take it the wrong way, it is just an observation. I may be the only one that sees it or feels that way, but just giving you a heads up either way

thunderthud
09-25-2011, 12:06 AM
I saw the word 'University' and a bunch of questions that will impact your bid came to mind:

1: What are the jobsite safety requirements? Is the school providing fencing to keep the public out of the work zone, or are you providing the safety fencing. I've never been on an east coast institutional campus that didn't have safety regulations that were lax.

2: Do they have hours you can and cannot work?

3: Where are the materials stores on the campus? On the site itself, or are they at the buildings and grounds facility?

4: What access do you have to the site? Can you get a machine in there of adequate size to do the work efficiently? Your bailing out 18 plus inches of material, where is that material going? Is this in the middle of a protected campus area where you're going to need excavator mats and plywood to protect the grass, or are you adjacent to the building? Are you digging in asphalt or turf or ledge? Do you need a hammer? If you're using a hammer do you know where to get a seismograph to protect your ass from damage claims against the colleges expensive glass cases?

5: What is the security of the jobsite? College kids are a-holes.

6: What are the warranty requirements of the job? Are you responsible for plant die off for a set period of time? Is the patio well engineered?

7: Underground utilities on campuses are notoriously bad, shallow and unmarked. Even if you DigSafe the site, you need to dig carefully.

8: Do you have the equipment to handle the compaction of the base that is 18 inches? Do they have requirements of how many lifts that base must be compacted in?

9: The patio would concern me because standard brick or standard pavers would be much easier than if they were choosing bluestone 24x24 pavers.

10: Are you prepared to carry the costs of this job for at least 90 days? They will issue you a purchase order for the job, which is at least net 30, probably net 60. So 90 days is the minimum before you get paid.

11: I think your time to completion is really long. Are you doing this solo? Did you figure out what equipment rentals are going to cost you if you don't already own the equipment?

12: Does your insurance meet the colleges requirements? Colleges, in fact all institutions in New England anyway, are all risk adverse. So a trip accident on your job site will be met with a flurry of letters from attorneys both in-house counsel and external counsel. There will be a campus PD report, a campus safety department report, a buildings and grounds report, and probably a report from the colleges insurer. They will hang you out to dry if you are not prepared.

I'm all for biting off more than you normally can chew, but the above is the amount of questions I came up with just pondering this for 30 seconds. I don't mean to pee in your Cheerios, but please know exactly what you're getting with this bid.

DiSantolandscaping
09-25-2011, 10:30 AM
it is for a general contracting company that is putting a bid in to do renovations. they are subing out the site work, then the landscaping, plus electrical, and so on. I have 1 million coverage, plus i would rent the bigger equipment, I have planted trees and i take my time to do it right. Most of the lco around just dig a hole and through the tree in backfill it, and mulch around it. I dig it to the propper height so the root ball isnt to low or to high above the ground, then i add some soil ph balancer from my local dealer plus water the tree a little bit, backfill and then mulch. same with plants, yes my time is a little longer then it should be, but its hard to predict how long these things can take. I can probably plants most of the plants and trees in two days, but with rain, cold weather, and other people paving, digging, and building around the area i was trying to allow for anything to happen.

DiSantolandscaping
09-25-2011, 11:51 AM
heres what one of the patios are going to be like

DiSantolandscaping
09-25-2011, 11:59 AM
heres the plants shrubs trees to be planted

PerfectEarth
09-26-2011, 08:22 AM
Listen to reddens and thunderthud.

PLEASE.

thunderthud
09-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Now I'm worried for you. You mention you are subcontracting to a GC. Your schedule is meaningless because everything is based off the GC's schedule. You have two masters, the GC and the GC's client (the College.)

You will get run over if you don't have a procedure in place for everything. What about changes that occur on the job site? Do you have a change order form? Do you have an agree change order rate with the GC who in turn has a change order rate with the client?

Have you ever worked with this GC before? How do they pay? Do you get paid at certain project milestones or do you get paid as they get paid? What are the GC's minimum requirements for insurance? What is the clients minimum requirements for insurance? Is there a construction manager or is the client acting as their own construction manager? Does the construction manager determine when you get paid? What are the inspection criteria?

Are there penalties in your contract for various items out of your control? How much time is the GC allowing for the work to be done? He will need to coordinate with the other subs on the project.

I'd guess the patio has lighting, so the electrician will either need trenches dug for his wiring, which probably will go under your patio, can you make allowances for that? What if the electrician makes a mistake and you need to pull up the patio in parts to allow him access? Who is paying for that? Now your work is compromised and will it pass final inspection?

Unfortunately, no one can determine what your bid should be. I understand you are a perfectionist by your tree planting technique, but really this is production work. Crunch time means it is time to go, and you'll either compromise your quality or be so under pressure from the stake holders on the job to finish, will you have to compromise yourself? Bid work for the most part is lipstick on a pig, the minimum required to get paid and have it last long enough past the warranty period.

Google 'skanska gehry mit' and read the story. That is a worst case scenario, but that is the reality.

Please consider this job carefully. My guess is you're submitting a price with at least 10 other companies, some with more experience, some with larger overhead, some who will underbid just to get the work, and some who are really submitting bids to the GC to beat the other subs down in price.

Glenn Lawn Care
09-26-2011, 04:25 PM
You can bid on it a number of ways... Bid each patio separate and add them together.... or by the hour, it will prolly take you the better part of 2 weeks to finish the project depending on how many people you have working for you...

Bidding the plants I would do it by the hour or so much per number of plants per hour.

JB1
09-26-2011, 05:17 PM
if your not very careful, they will eat you alive.

Birdhunter1
09-28-2011, 08:01 PM
I saw the word 'University' and a bunch of questions that will impact your bid came to mind:

1: What are the jobsite safety requirements? Is the school providing fencing to keep the public out of the work zone, or are you providing the safety fencing. I've never been on an east coast institutional campus that didn't have safety regulations that were lax.

2: Do they have hours you can and cannot work?

3: Where are the materials stores on the campus? On the site itself, or are they at the buildings and grounds facility?

4: What access do you have to the site? Can you get a machine in there of adequate size to do the work efficiently? Your bailing out 18 plus inches of material, where is that material going? Is this in the middle of a protected campus area where you're going to need excavator mats and plywood to protect the grass, or are you adjacent to the building? Are you digging in asphalt or turf or ledge? Do you need a hammer? If you're using a hammer do you know where to get a seismograph to protect your ass from damage claims against the colleges expensive glass cases?

5: What is the security of the jobsite? College kids are a-holes.

6: What are the warranty requirements of the job? Are you responsible for plant die off for a set period of time? Is the patio well engineered?

7: Underground utilities on campuses are notoriously bad, shallow and unmarked. Even if you DigSafe the site, you need to dig carefully.

8: Do you have the equipment to handle the compaction of the base that is 18 inches? Do they have requirements of how many lifts that base must be compacted in?

9: The patio would concern me because standard brick or standard pavers would be much easier than if they were choosing bluestone 24x24 pavers.

10: Are you prepared to carry the costs of this job for at least 90 days? They will issue you a purchase order for the job, which is at least net 30, probably net 60. So 90 days is the minimum before you get paid.

11: I think your time to completion is really long. Are you doing this solo? Did you figure out what equipment rentals are going to cost you if you don't already own the equipment?

12: Does your insurance meet the colleges requirements? Colleges, in fact all institutions in New England anyway, are all risk adverse. So a trip accident on your job site will be met with a flurry of letters from attorneys both in-house counsel and external counsel. There will be a campus PD report, a campus safety department report, a buildings and grounds report, and probably a report from the colleges insurer. They will hang you out to dry if you are not prepared.

I'm all for biting off more than you normally can chew, but the above is the amount of questions I came up with just pondering this for 30 seconds. I don't mean to pee in your Cheerios, but please know exactly what you're getting with this bid.

I work on a college campus in the maintenance area and the things above in bold type are things that you can very easily overlook if you are not used to working on a college campus. The things that are in bold and underlined are literally things they will eat you alive on if and when you screw up. The college should be able to mark their utilities easy enough, but make dern good and sure that they are marked. On the insurance and warranty they can eat you alive on that one. We had a new football stadium built and finished last year with some decorative concrete problems that is still under review.

From a standpoint of the inside looking out I would say don't bid on the job if you have to ask the kind of questions you are asking at this point in your business. yes you might do the job well, and you might come out ok, but if you don't it can and will be bad bad news.

Wayne 55
10-02-2011, 08:22 AM
One of the things that comes to mind. Does this job fall under the PLA agreement? Most school and collage jobs do in this area. If so you got extra paperwork to do such as payroll verifications and higher wages to add to this bid. Like many here I think you need to rethink yourself here. You are biting off way more than you can chew if you come here and ask others for bid help. Only you know your capabilities of how much work you can get done on any given day. Add rental to this cost and most likely you will end up not getting the job. Jobs in this economy are bid close to the vest as it is and if you leave too much money on the table you surely overlooked something the others didn't.

nepatsfan
10-02-2011, 08:33 AM
figure out what you would charge to do install 10 plants and how long it will take you. Multiply by 45.7....that might simplify it a bit. The size of the plants are a huge factor. Are you talking 6 inch pots or two gallon. big difference here.

Torchwood
11-23-2011, 07:45 PM
Any updates???
Posted via Mobile Device