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BrandonV
10-01-2011, 01:40 PM
guys I have a project where we used several alliance bl50s to uplight containers. I like the size of the mr11 and the fixture but for what ever reason this project I am having a good deal of burnouts. I have 12v at all the fixtures (not at the hub) and yet the bulbs aren't lasting... might be a bulb quality issue with the included bulb? regardless is there a decent led replacement lamp for this size fixture? or should I just try getting mr11s elsewhere?

Lite4
10-01-2011, 04:15 PM
Most MR11s are short lived and like any other lamp, don't like voltages up near 12v. You would be better off keeping them down around 11v. That being said, it sounds like you might be using some inline transformers to step down frm 120-12v at each fixture. The best MR11s on the marker are still the GE ones. I had trouble finding them for the longest time until I bumped into them at Walmart of all places (go figuire). I am not sure about MR11 LEDs though, I'm sure James could lead you in the right direction.

They do make resistors you can install to drop that voltage down a bit at each fixture also.
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BrandonV
10-01-2011, 05:29 PM
I can drop the voltage in them, I didnt know about the 11v preference. Ive used many mr11s in the and gotten much more life out of them then the current project. We're talking 3 months here compared to normally 12.
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-01-2011, 08:34 PM
You will have some difficulty finding any quality LED lamps in the MR11 format. There are some on the market but they do not perform as equivalents to halogen MR11 lamps. The issue here is the relatively small size of the MR11 format and the relatively demanding requirements that we pros are looking for. It is just not possible to generate over 200 lumens of light and effectively manage the heat from the LEDs in such a small package.

The MR11 LED lamps that are on the market tend to use relatively low intensity SMD chips (surface mount) and do not have any type of lens or collimators to focus the beam. What you end up with is a dim, soft 'blob' of light, coming off the face of the lamp with a 120 degree beam spread. No where near the equivalent of a 20W Halogen MR11.

In the future, as LED chips continue to evolve and improve there may be a solution for these small form factor lamps, but I don't see anything too promising on the horizon.

BrandonV
10-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Thanks James.
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Alan B
10-02-2011, 10:12 AM
guys I have a project where we used several alliance bl50s to uplight containers. I like the size of the mr11 and the fixture but for what ever reason this project I am having a good deal of burnouts. I have 12v at all the fixtures (not at the hub) and yet the bulbs aren't lasting... might be a bulb quality issue with the included bulb? regardless is there a decent led replacement lamp for this size fixture? or should I just try getting mr11s elsewhere?
Hi Brandon,

I have a multi part answer:
1. Regarding mr11's as discussed they have a history of both the lamps and the fixtures burning out prematurely. The small size means results in overheating and premature failure of both lamps and fixture components. 3 mo is still very premature-- I would try another brand of mr11's and do as Tim suggested--lean towards under volting.

2. If its only a container plant how about putting a bipin halogen in there (20w g4 bipin)? It's small, fits, reliable and will result in about a 10-15w equivalent (because only some of the light will get directed out the face).

3. Regard LEDs if you are only lighting up container plants perhaps a small bipin LED will do the job like James mini g4 bipin? You would only be utilizing the top LED chips (since the side ones would be facing the wrong direction, but u may still get 125+ lumens of light). VOLT small LED bi pin may also work (very small format).

Although it will not help you for this project, the answer for small format LEDs in the future will not be mr11 or any retrofit LED but an integrated LED fixture. We are working on some VOLT micro fixtures for next year. Narrow diameter fixture like an mr11 but LED chips in front, drivers isolated in the back of the fixture with heat sink fins between the 2-- enables small format with the lumens of a true 20w Halogen equivalent.

Cheers!

Alan

LLC RI
10-03-2011, 01:07 AM
I was going to say the same thing Alan said, using of of Illumicares G4 bi Pin ( the round one) . I did a project this summer where I wanted to reuse some Hadco BL711's - as small accent lights for small accents on an embankment that followed long stairways down to the condos. To make the job 'green' and to reduce the energy used, I retrofit those fixtures with Illumicare G4 bi pins. To help with some light concentration out the lens, I got some small flashing pieces from home depot and cut small faceted reflectors which I put in before I put the lamp in.

Illumicare
10-04-2011, 07:52 AM
I was going to say the same thing Alan said, using of of Illumicares G4 bi Pin ( the round one) . I did a project this summer where I wanted to reuse some Hadco BL711's - as small accent lights for small accents on an embankment that followed long stairways down to the condos. To make the job 'green' and to reduce the energy used, I retrofit those fixtures with Illumicare G4 bi pins. To help with some light concentration out the lens, I got some small flashing pieces from home depot and cut small faceted reflectors which I put in before I put the lamp in.

A great suggestion and innovative application; thanks George!

Here is the information on the lamps that George is referring to:

http://www.illumicaregroup.com/2010/09/led-g4-pin/

David Gretzmier
10-05-2011, 09:36 AM
There are some 3 watt cree led mr-11's out there that put out some 200 lumens or so, but they are a bit of a gamble. in an open fixture inside a home they could throw off the heat and be fine, but in an enclosed fixture you will find they sometimes will fry themselves. that being said, if you put in ten, like with halogen, you will find that some of them do seem to last for years. but you will probably replace over half in the first year. maybe less if you install them now in cooler temps and then replace more when the nightime temps get hotter next summer. They also are a bit longer than a traditional halogen, so they only work if you have a floating socket or a fixture that gives you an additional 3/4" to work with over haologen.

your best bet is going to 10.5-1.8 volts, using GE halogen bulbs.

David Gretzmier
10-05-2011, 09:38 AM
There are some 3 watt cree led mr-11's out there that put out some 200lumens or so, but they are a bit of a gamble. in an open fixture inside a home they could throw off the heat and be fine, but in an enclosed fixture you will find they sometimes will fry themselves. that being said, if you put in ten, like with halogen, you will find that some of them do seem to last for years. but you will probably replace over half in the first year. maybe less if you install them now in cooler temps and more when the nightime temps get hotter next summer. They also are a bit longer than a traditional halogen, so they only work if you have a floating socket or a fixture that gives you an additional 3/4" to work with over halogen.

I have put bipin's in mr-11 fixtures, and it puts out 10-20% of the light at best.

your best bet is going to 10.5-10.8 volts, using GE halogen mr-11 bulbs.

BrandonV
10-21-2011, 09:57 PM
got a call from alliance, they're sending me some leds for the fixtures to try out. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

lilmarvin4064
11-21-2011, 09:37 PM
if you have any skills at DIY, you could make your own bulb with this shell...

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mr32-1w-1-led-slot-aluminum-ceiling-spot-lamp-bulb-shell-silver-white-66276

a driver like this...

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/3w-3-led-power-drivers-for-mr16-lamp-light-12v-5-pack-66273

and a high CRI Cree XPG, like something available from Cutter Electronics, like this...

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1029

or for the more advanced, something like this...

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1078.

but you would need adequate thermal management for long life. Thermal paste/grease between the "bulb" and the casing.

lilmarvin4064
11-21-2011, 09:47 PM
The standard offering of LED landscape lighting is sooo lacking. There are just way too many parts/designs just sitting there, waiting to be engineered/developed. All current LED landscape lights currently available will soon be obsolete (2-3 years) !!! XML/MTG ?