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mitchgo
10-01-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm going in on monday to our supplier to see if it fits but I'm seeing if anyone may know this.

Would 160psi 3/4 poly fit inside a 1" 200 psi poly line?

1idejim
10-02-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm going in on monday to our supplier to see if it fits but I'm seeing if anyone may know this.

Would 160psi 3/4 poly fit inside a 1" 200 psi poly line?

hunters blue book gives the id/od/wall thickness of poly mitch:)

Wet_Boots
10-02-2011, 08:27 PM
the question really doesn't have an answer, because the poly pipe dimensions can vary according the resin used

mitchgo
10-03-2011, 04:02 AM
Theoretically it will fit. Based on the od of the 3/4 and id on the 1"

It appears pex will work too

I have a service line leak 4' under a driveway- The gas line intersects the water line under the driveway so using a mole is out of the question..

Aside from cutting up the road - I was thinking of using the existing piping as a sleeve and shove a new pipe it

Mdirrigation
10-03-2011, 09:47 AM
there is a tool that the plumbers use to pull a new service line thru an old pipe , generally the old blue polly, you pull a cable thru the pipe and attach a metal device on the end , it slices the old pipe splitting it and pulls in a new pipe as you go .

Waterit
10-03-2011, 10:17 AM
I'm not a poly guy and don't know poly flow rates, so I don't know if this will work for you.

We recently had a similar problem with a broken 1-1/2" PVC main under a driveway. Our fix was to shove a piece of 1" through the existing broken pipe and reconnect it on either side. The reduced flow for the 16'+/- under the driveway didn't affect system operation at all.

Wet_Boots
10-03-2011, 01:38 PM
PEX would work, as would any 3/4-inch CTS tubing, but for SIDR-9 3/4-inch IPS poly to fit inside SIDR-9 1-inch IPS poly, don't count on it happening.

greenmonster304
10-03-2011, 07:20 PM
there is a tool that the plumbers use to pull a new service line thru an old pipe , generally the old blue polly, you pull a cable thru the pipe and attach a metal device on the end , it slices the old pipe splitting it and pulls in a new pipe as you go .

I think you are talking about pipe bursting
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Wet_Boots
10-03-2011, 07:48 PM
Same idea ~ anyone making use of the newer PE4710 poly pipe?

Mdirrigation
10-03-2011, 10:08 PM
I think you are talking about pipe bursting
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No this isnt bursting , they use a winch or a cable hooked to a truck and pull the new pipe thru the old while splitting the old .

greenmonster304
10-03-2011, 11:48 PM
No this isnt bursting , they use a winch or a cable hooked to a truck and pull the new pipe thru the old while splitting the old .

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_bursting. I think it is the same or very similar

mitchgo
10-03-2011, 11:52 PM
[QUOTE=greenmonster304;4176904]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_bursting. I think they are very similar or the same thing
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If it splits the original pipe. I'm curious if it affects the integrity of the new pipe. I think I'm going the led route. I already repaired a break. Found another one
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Wet_Boots
10-04-2011, 12:11 AM
Aren't you in an area of shallow frost depths? It isn't like you couldn't reroute the water service line.

mitchgo
10-04-2011, 12:20 AM
Well 3 hours vs 70 hours of work. I'll choose the 3 right now . Of course every situation is different. In this situation re routing is near impossible with out some severe costs.
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Wet_Boots
10-04-2011, 12:57 AM
You guys don't have a plow?

mitchgo
10-04-2011, 01:20 AM
Minimum depth for this area on a municipal water service line is 24"

mitchgo
10-04-2011, 10:25 PM
This job turned into a nightmare . Service line didn't cross the driveway as I hoped. It turned. In the middle if the driveway. It cam out of the driveway about 30' away. I found the line at 6.5'. And 3' directly below a 6" left drain pipe .. effing. Insane
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irritation
10-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Your boss is using you. You've been doing this long enough and shouldn't be doing these dirty jobs.:hammerhead:

mitchgo
10-05-2011, 09:28 AM
I don't mind em.. I'll pick my battles.. I just didn't expect this one to be so bad

I was having my guy jim dig up the meter area for the first leak while I was tracing and accoustically listening.. we found the leak as it was entering the driveway to cross about 6' from the meter. It was awesomely funny to have my co-worker jim dig.

As you can see My 6' rockbar is 8-10" below grade.... This is where I found the line about 30' from the meter. Originally I was hoping the water line crossed the driveway and I could dig it up there- cut/cap to verify leak under driveway and replace. However the line turned in the middle of the roadway and followed the path of this 120' driveway..

Next step is to cut out the cement of where I think the leak is .. If it's not here the customer wants a full replacement.. With all the road rock it will probably cost 10k or so

Wet_Boots
10-05-2011, 11:32 AM
don't they ever use copper service lines up there?

irritation
10-05-2011, 11:37 AM
If you have it directional bored it shouldn't be anywhere near 10k and little to no mess.

mitchgo
10-05-2011, 11:55 AM
Yeah. We told the the guy that a directional bore this is the more effient way to go . Which we don't have. Our mole just goes straight . I'm going there later today. Gonna try to find the leak and if not were abandoning ship. Just too big of job for us when were not the most cost effective way
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mitchgo
10-05-2011, 11:58 AM
Boots its not too often. Specially now with the price of copper. I just traced a full copper line the other day tho with the 800. Dead on accuracy. Lotvof times its 2 to 5 feet of copper at the meter and at the house. Poly in the middle
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mitchgo
10-06-2011, 12:53 AM
Job abandoned :(

Refering to a directional bore company


The loudest point my accoustical was making was 2.5' into the driveway.. So I cut out 2.5' of asphalt and exposed the line... Nothing.. The line was 34" here and then started diving down at this point..

I still here the leak very very close...

My theory is the leak is still under the driveway just deeper- the loudest point I here is because the piping is shallower here.


This is the first job i've had to abandon.. there's been several I couldn't find the leak but narrowed it down to a 50' span and replaced the section of the service line. .

1idejim
10-16-2011, 12:18 PM
I don't mind em.. I'll pick my battles.. I just didn't expect this one to be so bad

I was having my guy jim dig up the meter area for the first leak while I was tracing and accoustically listening.. we found the leak as it was entering the driveway to cross about 6' from the meter. It was awesomely funny to have my co-worker jim dig.

As you can see My 6' rockbar is 8-10" below grade.... This is where I found the line about 30' from the meter. Originally I was hoping the water line crossed the driveway and I could dig it up there- cut/cap to verify leak under driveway and replace. However the line turned in the middle of the roadway and followed the path of this 120' driveway..

Next step is to cut out the cement of where I think the leak is .. If it's not here the customer wants a full replacement.. With all the road rock it will probably cost 10k or so

if that hole were to give way and your helper were to be left dead, you will go to prison.

as lead man onsite, he is your responsability mitch.

shoring is mandatory for employees

mitchgo
10-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I understand what you are saying.

The pictures don't really justify the situation. I didn't put anyone in harms way.

The picture of where my co-worker is digging is actually at the water meter. As you can see it was pure rock and only 30" deep. From the meter to the first leak was about 5' . So we had a 3'x5'x30" hole that was mostly road rock.

The picture of where my rockbar is , is where I dug. This was 25' away from the water meter next to the driveway. The 6" perf drain pipe is at 4' . The reason it was underminded like that is because there was drain rock all around the piping. The picture I took is where I was actually digging from. I created a little seat for me so I didn't have to be all the way in the hole. I never saw the piping . I could only feel it with my rockbar

Jim.. any insight on this? After I repaired the first leak.
I would induce air into the piping ( The pipe would be full of water) at 15 psi. While using the acoustical directly on the pipe after 10 seconds I could hear the bubbling. After 20 seconds it was full on bubble. While using the accoustical on the driveway - my loudest point was 3' in. This is where I thought the second leak was. So for my last attempt I cut out the 3' of driveway. Only to find out the piping ( still at 32") began diving down with no leak. My only theory on why the loudest point was here was because it was the shallowest point from where the leak was actually at.

1idejim
10-16-2011, 03:12 PM
Yeah, I understand what you are saying.

The pictures don't really justify the situation. I didn't put anyone in harms way.

The picture of where my co-worker is digging is actually at the water meter. As you can see it was pure rock and only 30" deep. From the meter to the first leak was about 5' . So we had a 3'x5'x30" hole that was mostly road rock.

The picture of where my rockbar is , is where I dug. This was 25' away from the water meter next to the driveway. The 6" perf drain pipe is at 4' . The reason it was underminded like that is because there was drain rock all around the piping. The picture I took is where I was actually digging from. I created a little seat for me so I didn't have to be all the way in the hole. I never saw the piping . I could only feel it with my rockbar

Jim.. any insight on this? After I repaired the first leak.
I would induce air into the piping ( The pipe would be full of water) at 15 psi. While using the acoustical directly on the pipe after 10 seconds I could hear the bubbling. After 20 seconds it was full on bubble. While using the accoustical on the driveway - my loudest point was 3' in. This is where I thought the second leak was. So for my last attempt I cut out the 3' of driveway. Only to find out the piping ( still at 32") began diving down with no leak. My only theory on why the loudest point was here was because it was the shallowest point from where the leak was actually at.

i bring the shoring issue to attention as in 2000' i was involved in a trench collapse, i was in a 3' trench that was 5' wide, wall i was next to fell in on me and i still have a few physical issues as a result.

couple of thoughts, water should be purged from the pipe for the best results for one. if you can induce air from the lowest point of the system you will receive a better noise. if the compromise is large you won't get the high pitch squeal that you want to be hearing.

if the pipe is clear of water and the surrounding soil is saturated you will hear bubbles or unmistakable noises at the compromise. the larger the compromise the harder to hear, the smaller the better and the best is a pin hole or hairline crack. by allowing the pipe to be full or partially full of water you are actually slowing down the leak locating process. :waving:

mitchgo
10-16-2011, 03:37 PM
i bring the shoring issue to attention as in 2000' i was involved in a trench collapse, i was in a 3' trench that was 5' wide, wall i was next to fell in on me and i still have a few physical issues as a result.


Point well taken! I'm sorry that happened to you jim!

Mike Leary
10-16-2011, 09:02 PM
I had one collapse on me as we were doing a sewer tap, scared the pucky out of me as I was 12' down when it let go I could sense the movement and climbed out up the ladder. No near-death experience, but I learned the hard way, as usual. :dizzy:

1idejim
10-17-2011, 09:55 AM
Boots its not too often. Specially now with the price of copper. I just traced a full copper line the other day tho with the 800. Dead on accuracy. Lotvof times its 2 to 5 feet of copper at the meter and at the house. Poly in the middle
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did you use the broadcast mode or direct connect and FE ground?

mitchgo
10-17-2011, 02:27 PM
Nah I hooked up a hose clamp to the meter
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