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sdk1959
10-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Does your business discriminate against the unemployed? See article link below.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Unemployed-seek-protection-apf-35104706.html?x=0

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
10-09-2011, 11:13 PM
That is not discrimination! Discrimination is when you hold something against someone that they can not change. You can change how long you have been unemployed! The government needs to stay the hell out of many business day to day operations such as this.

JB1
10-09-2011, 11:21 PM
we just discriminate against everyone.

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
10-09-2011, 11:40 PM
we just discriminate against everyone.

Question...If you discriminate against everyone, is that discrimination? LOL

JB1
10-09-2011, 11:41 PM
Question...If you discriminate against everyone, is that discrimination? LOL




its gettin too late to think that hard about that.

cod8825
10-10-2011, 01:40 AM
Yes!

I would discrminate against someone who has been unemployed for a length of nine months or longer. The fact of the matter is that there is a great deal number of jobs out there the problem is that a fair precentage of people who do not want to work at some jobs. I am able to easily get a part time job every winter. I have also been able to do this in conjunction with snow removal. This year when business slowed for me I got a full time weekend job. I will continue it through the winter till spring of 2012. Unfortunately some people just like to sit at home and draw unemployment.

AI Inc
10-10-2011, 05:53 AM
If one looks into this a little more they would see the real effect the gvmt has. The end result being that when one presents a resume showing no employment for a certain time, they do not even get an interview.
A company would rather hire someone who would do whatever it takes ( work at mcdonalds if need be) then to hire someone who sat home for as long as they could.

Do some reading, there has been an article about this in the sunday paper buss section evry week for a month or so now.

sdk1959
10-10-2011, 07:14 AM
People rail about America becoming a socialist country but if the unemployed can't find jobs who is going to end up supporting them- us through higher and higher taxes. Isn't that Socialism?

There are a lot of people that are out of work that want to work but are tired of getting the door slammed in thier face. I rather see them get work, pay taxes, spend money then support them when thier UC runs out and they end up on welfare. Makes sense.

AI Inc
10-10-2011, 07:19 AM
So how many new employees have you hired this season?

humble1
10-10-2011, 07:51 AM
I hired for one position. The thing is 9 to 10 per unemployment is high. But if you take 100 people that you know some of them are lazy some don't want to or just are not able to work. Some of them wouldn't be good workers ever. Then there is the few people in that group that are great workers the ones that any company would love to have. Hire slowly and fire quickly.
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ed2hess
10-10-2011, 07:26 PM
I rather see them get work, pay taxes, spend money then support them when thier UC runs out and they end up on welfare. Makes sense.

So we got a gov program that pays you unemployment until it breaks the country and employeers and then there is another program they can lean on called welfare:confused: How do you sign up for welfare and what are the qualifications?

sdk1959
10-10-2011, 08:44 PM
It is unbelievable the ignorance the posters have about unemployment compensation insurance. Let me explain it to you and any that are business owners with employees you should already know this.

Unemployment compensation insurance is a tax paid by BOTH the employer and employee. If you worked at least 4 months or more and get laid off you can collect. The length of time you can collect depends on how long you worked previously to getting laid off and the unemployment rate for your state, the amount you can collect depends on your earnings.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE WORKED TO GET IT. I'LL REPEAT IT AGAIN- YOU HAVE TO HAVE WORKED TO GET IT. IT IS NOT A UNLIMITED FREE HANDOUT LIKE WELFARE. YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYER PAY TAXES INTO IT BASED ON YOUR SALARY. YOU ARE NOT ONLY ENTITLED TO COLLECT BUT ARE ENTITLED TO FIND COMPARABLE WORK. SO NO- IF YOU MADE $80,000 A YEAR ON YOUR LAST JOB YOU HAVE TO RUN OUT AND TAKE A JOB AT $20,000 A YEAR. YOU HAVE PAID TAXES ON $80,000 A YEAR SALARY NOT $20,000, 4 TIMES AS MUCH, SO YES, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO FIND COMPARABLE WORK.

Example: If you have collision on your car insurance with a $100 deductible and paid the higher premiums for years for it do you pay $1000 deductible- no- $100. Don't expect someone who's had a high salary job and that HE- NOT YOU paid high taxes for years into Unemployment Compensation Insurance to run out and take some low paying job in 2 weeks. YOU DO NOT PAY HIS TAXES FOR THIS, HE DOES, SO WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. DO YOU TELL YOUR NEIGHBORS THEY ARE GREEDY IF A TREE FALLS ON THEIR HOUSE AND THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS FOR IT. NO- IT'S THEIR HOUSE, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY THAT THEY- NOT YOU PAY THE PREMIUMS TO, IT'S NONE YOUR BUSINESS OR CONCERN.

If someone dumb wants to sit on their a$$ and run out their UC to the end without looking a job it's their problem not mine, I didn't pay taxes for it he/she did. And by the way the ones that do this are the young adults that still live at home and wives/husbands whose spouse still works.

I hope this clears things up that UC is not welfare.

PROCUT1
10-10-2011, 09:10 PM
Some people believe there is no jobs crisis in the country. Just tens of millions of people that worked most of their lives and just up and said "screw it.......take my house, take my savings, take my car, I don't feel like working anymore"
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sdk1959
10-10-2011, 10:05 PM
Some people believe there is no jobs crisis in the country. Just tens of millions of people that worked most of their lives and just up and said "screw it.......take my house, take my savings, take my car, I don't feel like working anymore"
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Yeah, they probably share the same gene pool as the flat earth believers, the moon landing was fake believers, the sun revolves around the earth believers, etc.::hammerhead: :laugh:

AI Inc
10-11-2011, 07:01 AM
It is unbelievable the ignorance the posters have about unemployment compensation insurance. .

Unemployment compensation insurance is a tax paid by BOTH the employer and employee. If you worked at least 4 months or more and get laid off you can collect. The length of time you can collect depends on how long you worked previously to getting laid off and the unemployment rate for your state, the amount you can collect depends on your earnings.


.

The ignorance is overwhelming. Just because the employee contibutes to it in PA , some beleive it is like that everywhere. Not so.

AI Inc
10-11-2011, 07:03 AM
Some people believe there is no jobs crisis in the country. Just tens of millions of people that worked most of their lives and just up and said "screw it.......take my house, take my savings, take my car, I don't feel like working anymore"
Posted via Mobile Device

No they didnt say that. What they did say is " Im not going to go bust my balls in a sunny parking lot for procut for $12 an hr when I can get the equivilent of $10.50 to sit home and make a 5 minute phone call on Monday mornings. But if procut was paying cash so I could still collect, Id start tommorow.

But hey , just think, if ya did pay cash you could hire Americans instead of having an all Mexican crew as you do now.

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 07:17 AM
The ignorance is overwhelming. Just because the employee contibutes to it in PA , some beleive it is like that everywhere. Not so.

Even so, the business is paying the taxes for it NOT YOU. If some smuck wants to run out his UC to the end without looking for a job and end up homeless it's his problem not yours.

AI Inc
10-11-2011, 07:39 AM
Was that way before the king of welfare , one berock Obama decided to extend those bennies. Then it became my problem as that money comes from federal income taxes that I pay. Now he wants to extand it another yr in his lack of jobs bll

txgrassguy
10-11-2011, 09:52 AM
No, this is not discrimination - all this phenomenon represented in the article is a growing welfare entitlement mindset buttressed by governmental intrusion into private business.
Okay so the chick looses her job driving a bus, hey shithappens - I have lost jobs before.
However, the difference between self reliance which is what has made the USA a great place to live verse a socialistic country similar to most of Europe, the unemployed look to the state to provide for them instead of their own activity and responsibility.
This is why I will not hire along term unemployed individual - the mindset of "you OWE me" verse one of individual accountability.
Besides, I have interviewed literally hundreds of people over the twenty plus years I have spent in the Agronomic industry for various positions and the one's I hired were the adults whom displayed an attitude of "what can I do for the company" verse the previously mentioned "you OWE me" or "xxx job is the only thing I am being hired for" attitude like the chick in the article.
So, suck it up America - learn to adapt to a changing economic time - stop the absolute bullshit whining about being out of work and actually take charge of your life for once.
This is the kind of "change" I'll support.

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
Was that way before the king of welfare , one berock Obama decided to extend those bennies. Then it became my problem as that money comes from federal income taxes that I pay. Now he wants to extand it another yr in his lack of jobs bll

Through the state you can collect for up to a year with extensions based on the unemployment level, anything after that is the federal government.

What Obama should have done with the UC extension is cut the payments in half. The bill would cost half as much and would force those on the extension to at least find part-time work while collecting which would bring in tax revenue yet still allow them time to find full-time work. To give a full ride for UC for another year is counterproductive. :nono::hammerhead: Should have been half-payments.

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 06:25 PM
No, this is not discrimination - all this phenomenon represented in the article is a growing welfare entitlement mindset buttressed by governmental intrusion into private business.
Okay so the chick looses her job driving a bus, hey shithappens - I have lost jobs before.
However, the difference between self reliance which is what has made the USA a great place to live verse a socialistic country similar to most of Europe, the unemployed look to the state to provide for them instead of their own activity and responsibility.
This is why I will not hire along term unemployed individual - the mindset of "you OWE me" verse one of individual accountability.
Besides, I have interviewed literally hundreds of people over the twenty plus years I have spent in the Agronomic industry for various positions and the one's I hired were the adults whom displayed an attitude of "what can I do for the company" verse the previously mentioned "you OWE me" or "xxx job is the only thing I am being hired for" attitude like the chick in the article.
So, suck it up America - learn to adapt to a changing economic time - stop the absolute bullshit whining about being out of work and actually take charge of your life for once.
This is the kind of "change" I'll support.

Please see post #12. Unemployment Compensation is NOT welfare. You have to have worked to get it and ONLY YOU and the BUSINESS you worked for pay into it. It is not a free unlimited handout to any warm body that applies for it like welfare is. BIG DIFFERENCE!

txgrassguy
10-11-2011, 07:32 PM
First of all I am aware of the difference between Unemployment Compensation and welfare.
You are not the only individual who has either worked or lived in P.A.
Regardless, the tenor of my response was predicated upon the content of the article wherein the unemployed bus driver was whining about another driving job available yet not being hired to fulfill.
Hence her attitude regarding a job she wanted verse any sort of job resulting in her behavior of demanding continued unemployment compensation equaling a welfare mentality.

cod8825
10-11-2011, 07:52 PM
Some people believe there is no jobs crisis in the country. Just tens of millions of people that worked most of their lives and just up and said "screw it.......take my house, take my savings, take my car, I don't feel like working anymore"
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ProCut1:

I agree with part of what you are saying but feel that it leaves out part of the picture. I think what alot of people are fustrated over and wrong with the unemployment benefits are as follow. People do not take some kind of job even if it is less when they where employed and will do that for the entire length of their benefits they will sit on their duffs I know I had an uncle like that. Second because I already here the arguement. How can somebody who was making 80K a year take a 40K a year job and continue to have the same standard of living.

The point is you can't. Simple if you lose your job it might mean you have to give up cable tv, super high speed internet, and your $200 a month cell plan and go to something simpler like no TV, regular cell phone with text only. You sometimes have to make cuts it hurts believe me I know.

Matt

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 08:12 PM
ProCut1:

I agree with part of what you are saying but feel that it leaves out part of the picture. I think what alot of people are frustrated over and wrong with the unemployment benefits are as follow. People do not take some kind of job even if it is less when they where employed and will do that for the entire length of their benefits they will sit on their duffs I know I had an uncle like that. Second because I already here the argument. How can somebody who was making 80K a year take a 40K a year job and continue to have the same standard of living.

The point is you can't. Simple if you lose your job it might mean you have to give up cable tv, super high speed Internet, and your $200 a month cell plan and go to something simpler like no TV, regular cell phone with text only. You sometimes have to make cuts it hurts believe me I know.

Matt

I agree with your statement but a lot of these posters expect someone who had a high paying job that he/she and the business they worked for paid a lot into unemployment compensation insurance to run out immediately and take a job at $9.00hr somewhere instead of using UC what it was intended for and finding comparable work. I guarantee you these posters making these statements either have a profitable business or have no real expenses ( live at home or live with 3 roommates) or they have a spouse who earns the money.

When a person gets to near the end of their unemployment compensation and has to settle for a much lower paying position they will have to reduce expenses by making the cuts and if that is not enough sell their house and move in with relatives.

PROCUT1
10-11-2011, 08:28 PM
We're also talking like there are even tons of low paying jobs available.
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CL&T
10-11-2011, 08:40 PM
First of all I am aware of the difference between Unemployment Compensation and welfare.
You are not the only individual who has either worked or lived in P.A.
Regardless, the tenor of my response was predicated upon the content of the article wherein the unemployed bus driver was whining about another driving job available yet not being hired to fulfill.
Hence her attitude regarding a job she wanted verse any sort of job resulting in her behavior of demanding continued unemployment compensation equaling a welfare mentality.

Don't get me wrong- I hate lazy people that live off of government handouts as much as you. But the situation today is different. People are at the end of their rope with being s*** on. They have lost their jobs, their homes, their savings and any hope of retirement because of others greed and you think they should be happy with an $8/hr job that yet another parasite, taking advantage of the desparation out there, offers them? If they can collect more from UC where is the logic to that?

So now the thing is to only offer jobs to people who are employed? There's no doubt about it, that's discrimination just as sure as saying you won't hire women, people of certain religions, minorities, those with disabilities, over a certain age, etc.

I don't know where this is going but I'm beginining to think at some point in the near future, unless things change to give people some hope, there is going to be a violent backlash, a revolution involving killing and bloodshed. I hope I'm wrong but I couldn't blame them either. It's attitudes like yours that just add fuel to the fire.

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 10:35 PM
First of all I am aware of the difference between Unemployment Compensation and welfare.
You are not the only individual who has either worked or lived in P.A.
Regardless, the tenor of my response was predicated upon the content of the article wherein the unemployed bus driver was whining about another driving job available yet not being hired to fulfill.
Hence her attitude regarding a job she wanted verse any sort of job resulting in her behavior of demanding continued unemployment compensation equaling a welfare mentality.

First off- you say you know what the difference is between welfare and unemployment is. You obviously don't or don't care if there is. You think it is not a entitlement even though the employee and employer have paid the taxes for it just like social security and you put it in the same category as welfare where a person doesn't have to earn or pay a dime into it to apply for and receive benefits.

If you think that's the case then all these millions of laid-off people some of which may have worked as much as 40 years or more and became unemployed for the first time should get refunded all that tax money they paid as well as their employers get tax refunds too. Fair enough?

2nd off- Where does it state in the article that the woman said she wants to receive extended UC benefits? Where- please tell me- the woman already collected the UC extension. You didn't really comprehend the article, you just make baseless assumptions about it.

sdk1959
10-11-2011, 10:49 PM
We're also talking like there are even tons of low paying jobs available.
Posted via Mobile Device

I would love to see some of the A-hole LCO posters here get a resume together and apply for a REAL JOB. Half of them that can't spell don't even have the common sense to use spell check in their posts. All they would know how to do is fill out a simple one page application.

Not too many REAL jobs needing real skills can you apply for with a one page application. They be unemployed a long time & no happy ending either.:laugh:

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 12:58 AM
Don't get me wrong- I hate lazy people that live off of government handouts as much as you. But the situation today is different. People are at the end of their rope with being s*** on. They have lost their jobs, their homes, their savings and any hope of retirement because of others greed and you think they should be happy with an $8/hr job that yet another parasite, taking advantage of the desparation out there, offers them? If they can collect more from UC where is the logic to that?

So now the thing is to only offer jobs to people who are employed? There's no doubt about it, that's discrimination just as sure as saying you won't hire women, people of certain religions, minorities, those with disabilities, over a certain age, etc.

I don't know where this is going but I'm beginning to think at some point in the near future, unless things change to give people some hope, there is going to be a violent backlash, a revolution involving killing and bloodshed. I hope I'm wrong but I couldn't blame them either. It's attitudes like yours that just add fuel to the fire.

I agree, these same posters will complain in the future about the welfare rolls expanding when the long term unemployed seek welfare benefits when their UC runs out and they still can't find a job because of unemployment discrimination.

Then when welfare runs out of money they will complain about the high crimes rates, excessive police force, higher taxes, and how even in the previously laid back suburbs they have to have bars on their windows because only the super rich will be able to afford gated communities.

Stephen M.
10-12-2011, 04:35 AM
It is unbelievable the ignorance the posters have about unemployment compensation insurance. Let me explain it to you and any that are business owners with employees you should already know this.

Unemployment compensation insurance is a tax paid by BOTH the employer and employee. If you worked at least 4 months or more and get laid off you can collect. The length of time you can collect depends on how long you worked previously to getting laid off and the unemployment rate for your state, the amount you can collect depends on your earnings.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE WORKED TO GET IT. I'LL REPEAT IT AGAIN- YOU HAVE TO HAVE WORKED TO GET IT. IT IS NOT A UNLIMITED FREE HANDOUT LIKE WELFARE. YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYER PAY TAXES INTO IT BASED ON YOUR SALARY. YOU ARE NOT ONLY ENTITLED TO COLLECT BUT ARE ENTITLED TO FIND COMPARABLE WORK. SO NO- IF YOU MADE $80,000 A YEAR ON YOUR LAST JOB YOU HAVE TO RUN OUT AND TAKE A JOB AT $20,000 A YEAR. YOU HAVE PAID TAXES ON $80,000 A YEAR SALARY NOT $20,000, 4 TIMES AS MUCH, SO YES, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO FIND COMPARABLE WORK.

Example: If you have collision on your car insurance with a $100 deductible and paid the higher premiums for years for it do you pay $1000 deductible- no- $100. Don't expect someone who's had a high salary job and that HE- NOT YOU paid high taxes for years into Unemployment Compensation Insurance to run out and take some low paying job in 2 weeks. YOU DO NOT PAY HIS TAXES FOR THIS, HE DOES, SO WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. DO YOU TELL YOUR NEIGHBORS THEY ARE GREEDY IF A TREE FALLS ON THEIR HOUSE AND THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS FOR IT. NO- IT'S THEIR HOUSE, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY THAT THEY- NOT YOU PAY THE PREMIUMS TO, IT'S NONE YOUR BUSINESS OR CONCERN.

If someone dumb wants to sit on their a$$ and run out their UC to the end without looking a job it's their problem not mine, I didn't pay taxes for it he/she did. And by the way the ones that do this are the young adults that still live at home and wives/husbands whose spouse still works.

I hope this clears things up that UC is not welfare.

Not so in Washington State (the other one on the left coast)--

1. Workmens Comp is paid by both employee and employer.

2. UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE is only paid by the employer like the FUTA.

An employee in Washington State has to work 600 hours before they are eligable to apply. There may be a few good reasons why they may be denied, but the system is heavily weighted toward the employee. Even though Washington State is an "at will" employment state, employers must do a darn good job of documenting if there is even a prayer to deny benefits.

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 06:54 AM
I would love to see some of the A-hole LCO posters here get a resume together and apply for a REAL JOB. Half of them that can't spell don't even have the common sense to use spell check in their posts. All they would know how to do is fill out a simple one page application.

Not too many REAL jobs needing real skills can you apply for with a one page application. They be unemployed a long time & no happy ending either.:laugh:

So Ill ask again, how many new employees did you hire this season?

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 07:20 AM
Not so in Washington State (the other one on the left coast)--

1. Workmens Comp is paid by both employee and employer.

2. UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE is only paid by the employer like the FUTA.

An employee in Washington State has to work 600 hours before they are eligible to apply. There may be a few good reasons why they may be denied, but the system is heavily weighted toward the employee. Even though Washington State is an "at will" employment state, employers must do a darn good job of documenting if there is even a prayer to deny benefits.

But in states where only the employer contributes to UC the amount the employee can collect is much lower. In PA and NJ where both employer and employee contribute I believe the max is around $600 a week. In some states I suspect the max amount is less than $300 a week.

Federal taxes are also paid on UC as well unlike welfare where it's not. In PA and NJ you have to have worked at least 16 weeks to get a short-term claim.

If you are fired for just cause like stealing, fighting or insubordination you can be denied benefits in PA and NJ.

GreenI.A.
10-12-2011, 01:59 PM
People are missing a key thing, you can get a low paying job and and still keep your unemployment benefits. For example say you were working a job making 52k a year, so you were payed $1,000 a week beforre any deductions. Now you're laid off and UI is paying you 50% so you get a check for $500 a week for doing nothing. You're suposed to keep track of 3 contacts a week looking for a job but I have yet to meet a person who was ever audited on this. Ok so now you get your $500 a week sitting on your butt all day. If you want to do the right thing and use UI as intended and are actually looking for a job, but you can only find a job which your take home is $300 a week, and not enough to get buy on, you still get the difference of $200 a week from UI until the UI runs out or you find a job that is comparable in pay to what you were making. If you help your neighbor paint his house and he gives you $100 for it, you can report it to UI and instead of that $500 check you'll get $400 that week. Atleast this way here you are using UI as intended, are working and somewhat contributing to the economy, and your not forced to do a short sale on your home because you cant afford your motgage by taking a temporary job at walmart.


And for the record I descriminate against everyone the same. But if a person applied to work for me after being on UI for 1.5+ years I would wonder about work ethics or wonder just why noboddy else would hire the person during that time. I wouldn't throw the application/resume away immediately if everything up to that point looked good, but I would definetly spend more time asking questions during the interview.

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 02:36 PM
Ahhh they key words Work Ethic. And if one reads the articles about this work ethic is exactly the reason mentioned by companies who refuse to hire the long term unemployed.

And in yesterdays article the story was " part time gets new respect"

PROCUT1
10-12-2011, 02:43 PM
If this were a few years ago, when there were plenty of jobs available I would certainly agree.

I think people somehow are missing the problem. There are 6-7 applicants for every one job available.

They are saying right now if you are in your 40s or more there is a very high likelihood that you will never find a job again.

People are still stuck thinking this is the 90's or something and totally dont have a grasp on the depth of this crisis.

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 02:53 PM
And some are just sucking it up.

I do know a few people collecting, but I dont know any who dont have a job.
Well cept my BIL. he was in a minor car accident and thought he won the white trash lottery. Sat home " injured" for 3 months waiting for an ins check that everyone but him knew wasnt coming. Apperently the company he was working for had a strange desire to stay in buss , so they replaced him. Now he,s collecting. Guess he 's getting that free money he was after in the end anyways.

PROCUT1
10-12-2011, 03:09 PM
There are plenty of examples of people like that.

It doesn't add up to tens of millions of people though.

I say it everyday and nobody has convinced me otherwise. I still dont believe tens of millions of people just said "screw it, take my house, take my savings, take my car, I dont wanna work no more"

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 03:20 PM
No they didnt say that. They said Ill take free money over the jobs that are available. Thats why you cant seem to hire Americans.

PROCUT1
10-12-2011, 03:34 PM
They had to have said that.

A couple hundred bucks a week doesn't make the mortgage and car payments.

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 05:36 PM
It does if the wife is still working . If UI runs out , Im sure they will be doing something within 3 weeks. Till then they are stealing . Just like in winter when I steal it.
Oh wait a minute, Im entitled to it.

CL&T
10-12-2011, 06:16 PM
People are still stuck thinking this is the 90's or something and totally dont have a grasp on the depth of this crisis.

That is so true. If you listen to the media we aren't even in a recession anymore. People have no idea what trouble we are in because the government doesn't want to cause a panic. No, this isn't a recession. THIS IS A DEPRESSION folks, and don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.

A couple hundred bucks a week doesn't make the mortgage and car payments.

It's a funny thing how peoples minds work. Somebody works all their life, is successful at what they do and they make a decent salary. They buy a house with a mortgage that they fully expect to pay off. They have a family to support. All of a sudden they and lots of other people lose their jobs. No matter where they look there are either no jobs available that they can do or whatever is available provides no where near what they need to meet their obligations. So they spend down their savings then lose their house, maybe their car. They lose their medical coverage. Do you really think somebody in that position is going to come to you with a smile on their face and be happy to bust their ass for you for $8/hr when it doesn't help them out of the hole they are in one bit?

Thats why you cant seem to hire Americans.

Maybe you could if you paid them what they need to live a decent life.

AI Inc
10-12-2011, 06:45 PM
[I]Thats why you cant seem to hire Americans.

Maybe you could if you paid them what they need to live a decent life.

Thats what Ive been telling him. Fire them Mexicans and pay Americans what they are worth. He aint having no of it thou. Must be corperate greed or something.

CL&T
10-12-2011, 07:14 PM
Fire them Mexicans and pay Americans what they are worth.

I've been saying that all along. They are willing to work for (and live) with less so that drags down the entire pay scale and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to live like some of them do. Funny thing is a lot of them come here and live in destitution and send all their money home. Then after a number of years go back home to their savings and live better than we do because even their low pay here is a lot of money back there.

PROCUT1
10-12-2011, 07:24 PM
That would be a good deal. Considering I haven't had one yet that was 25% what a Mexican worker is, I could get 4 for the price of one. But the Mexican would still out perform.

The pay formula is no secret.

The faster and better you get a job done, the profit on the job goes up. Profit is shared by the crew on the job.

I had American crews in the past.

It was interesting.

The American crews would do the bare minimum and just scrape by.
The Mexican crews would haul butt and by Wednesday they were asking for more work.
Bringing in every job under budget.

At the end of the month the Americans were crying because the Mexicans were picking up bonus checks that more than double their pay and the Americans didn't have one.

They could not grasp the concept of "you make the company more money you get more money"

They would say "you pay more, we'll work faster"

The opportunity was there for everyone.

The Mexicans took it and made serious money.

The Americans cried that it wasn't fair and quit.

I don't set employees pay in my business. They do
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sdk1959
10-12-2011, 08:12 PM
And some are just sucking it up.

I do know a few people collecting, but I dont know any who dont have a job.
Well cept my BIL. he was in a minor car accident and thought he won the white trash lottery. Sat home " injured" for 3 months waiting for an ins check that everyone but him knew wasnt coming. Apperently the company he was working for had a strange desire to stay in buss , so they replaced him. Now he,s collecting. Guess he 's getting that free money he was after in the end anyways.

It's not free money if it's Unemployment Compensation Insurance which his company and him paid into. It's not welfare.

Does this guy have any REAL expenses like a mortgage, rent, car payment, family to support or pay child support. You will find that the individuals who abuse UC or Disability Insurance either have no expenses or are subsidized in some way (parents, relatives, spouse). People with REAL bills, REAL skills, look for REAL jobs. AS THEY SHOULD AND AND HOW IT WAS INTENDED AS THEIR RIGHT WITH THE TAXES THEY PAID INTO UC.

Just because a lot of the posters here don't have the jobs skills necessary to earn a living wage if they didn't own a business doesn't mean the rest of of us with skills should just run out and forfeit our UC to join your ranks in a unskilled job.

Do you tell your senior neighbor he's greedy and abusing SS & should work till the day he dies because he collects social security from the taxes he paid into it all his working life?

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 09:00 PM
People are missing a key thing, you can get a low paying job and and still keep your unemployment benefits. For example say you were working a job making 52k a year, so you were payed $1,000 a week beforre any deductions. Now you're laid off and UI is paying you 50% so you get a check for $500 a week for doing nothing. You're suposed to keep track of 3 contacts a week looking for a job but I have yet to meet a person who was ever audited on this. Ok so now you get your $500 a week sitting on your butt all day. If you want to do the right thing and use UI as intended and are actually looking for a job, but you can only find a job which your take home is $300 a week, and not enough to get buy on, you still get the difference of $200 a week from UI until the UI runs out or you find a job that is comparable in pay to what you were making. If you help your neighbor paint his house and he gives you $100 for it, you can report it to UI and instead of that $500 check you'll get $400 that week. Atleast this way here you are using UI as intended, are working and somewhat contributing to the economy, and your not forced to do a short sale on your home because you cant afford your motgage by taking a temporary job at walmart.


And for the record I descriminate against everyone the same. But if a person applied to work for me after being on UI for 1.5+ years I would wonder about work ethics or wonder just why noboddy else would hire the person during that time. I wouldn't throw the application/resume away immediately if everything up to that point looked good, but I would definetly spend more time asking questions during the interview.

In PA ad NJ you can earn 40% of your benefit rate in a part time job before they take anything out. After the 40% is met it's dollar for dollar taken out but that helps extend your unemployment as your compensation is a set dollar amount not a number of weeks. The number of weeks can you collect is the dollar amount of your claim times the maximum benefit rate. So if you work and earn over 40% of your benefit rate it will extend the number of weeks you can collect.

Only thing is in PA & NJ any job you take has to be less that 40hrs or you will forfeit your UC because you have to be ready and available for full-time work. If you get injured and can't work your disqualified for UC and must apply for Disability.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Sdk you got one huge chip on shoulder the hatred you show posters who's opinion differs from yours is overwhelming. I wouldn't hire you at all you are a cancer on moral.

Pro is not going to help you here either we have had our conversations and it turns out I pay my boys a lot more then he pays his.

I disagree with the concept of unemployment compensation it's an unnecessary cost of business that I and many others have to endure. My top guy collects on me 8-10 weeks each winter and for that I get the top rate and no the employees do not contribute one red cent here. Top rate is 6.8% add in the feds and that's over 8000 dollars a year for a 100k in payroll. It's not an option either its an unconstitutional nanny state law. That's a big chunk of change to pay out so my boys can take a vacation and yes that is what they do they don't look for work at all when they are on it unless its under the table.

And its not like its a surprise this is a seasonal job you go in knowing there will be a winter slow down. So I get hit with that unemployment compensation bs then I get hit with time an half over 40 now I got no issues with that but if your going to pay some one for an entire years worth a work in 9-10 months they shouldn't get to collect on top of that. One or the other but not both. Now I fired a guy last year he refused to work one day and walked off the job hes been collecting for 9 months now He worked for 9 months with me and had not the previous 6 years. And he only plans to look for a new job when it runs out that is not how it was intended to work and you sure as hell should be smart enough to know that. They should require proof of job searches after the first 4 weeks of collecting. You do them no favors allowing them to get soft and leach off of us.

Basically your preaching socialism and you defend it by complaining how landscapers spell. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

CL&T
10-12-2011, 09:12 PM
They would say "you pay more, we'll work faster"

I don't disagree with you that they are more productive. My opinion from what I see for why that is is because their "wants" are not that great. They bring that with them from their country. They are happy to live simply (what we would consider poverty) and their cost of living is easily covered by low wages.

An American worker's life style is completely different brought about by living in this country. America is not a third world country. In most places, for many people just the cost of living above poverty consumes most of a paycheck.

You can pay immigrants more for working faster and to them whatever you pay extra is a lot of money. To an American worker that same amount just doesn't buy very much.

I also notice that now that we are getting second and third generation they are as Americanized as the rest of us.

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 09:17 PM
So Ill ask again, how many new employees did you hire this season?

None, I'm a solo operator.

But if I were hiring someone I would look at & be more concerned about the applicants job history, duties, attendance, job skills, equipment used & references and not whether they are currently employed or length of unemployment.

If they worked for a large company for a number of years most likely they may have had more than one supervisor and I would get references from all of them if possible. Many times if someone had more than one boss one may give a good reference and one may not so it's best to hear from all before forming an opinion about a applicant.

CL&T
10-12-2011, 09:25 PM
I disagree with the concept of unemployment compensation it's an unnecessary cost of business that I and many others have to endure. My top guy collects on me 8-10 weeks each winter and for that I get the top rate and no the employees do not contribute one red cent here. Top rate is 6.8% add in the feds and that's over 8000 dollars a year for a 100k in payroll. It's not an option either its an unconstitutional nanny state law. That's a big chunk of change to pay out so my boys can take a vacation and yes that is what they do they don't look for work at all when they are on it unless its under the table... And its not like its a surprise this is a seasonal job you go in knowing there will be a winter slow down.

I'll agree with you there. I never understood why a seasonal worker can collect UC during the off months. Sounds to me like your beef is with the government, not the workers who are only doing what they are allowed to do.

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 09:39 PM
That would be a good deal. Considering I haven't had one yet that was 25% what a Mexican worker is, I could get 4 for the price of one. But the Mexican would still out perform.

The pay formula is no secret.

The faster and better you get a job done, the profit on the job goes up. Profit is shared by the crew on the job.

I had American crews in the past.

It was interesting.

The American crews would do the bare minimum and just scrape by.
The Mexican crews would haul butt and by Wednesday they were asking for more work.
Bringing in every job under budget.

At the end of the month the Americans were crying because the Mexicans were picking up bonus checks that more than double their pay and the Americans didn't have one.

They could not grasp the concept of "you make the company more money you get more money"

They would say "you pay more, we'll work faster"

The opportunity was there for everyone.

The Mexicans took it and made serious money.

The Americans cried that it wasn't fair and quit.

I don't set employees pay in my business. They do
Posted via Mobile Device

One American dollar is worth about 12-13 pesos last time I checked. That will buy the equivalent in Mexico of what $5.00 will buy here. So if you pay your Mexican workers $12.00HR what your really paying them when that money is sent back home is more like $60.00hr. Almost like hitting the lottery to them. Pay your Mexican help $2.50Hr and see how hard they DON'T work if they don't just up and quit on the spot. Or pay a American worker $60.00HR and see how hard they work.

Mexicans don't risk life & limb crossing deserts paying hundreds or even thousands to smugglers to earn a average wage when they get here.

sdk1959
10-12-2011, 09:57 PM
Sdk you got one huge chip on shoulder the hatred you show posters who's opinion differs from yours is overwhelming. I wouldn't hire you at all you are a cancer on moral.

Pro is not going to help you here either we have had our conversations and it turns out I pay my boys a lot more then he pays his.

I disagree with the concept of unemployment compensation it's an unnecessary cost of business that I and many others have to endure. My top guy collects on me 8-10 weeks each winter and for that I get the top rate and no the employees do not contribute one red cent here. Top rate is 6.8% add in the feds and that's over 8000 dollars a year for a 100k in payroll. It's not an option either its an unconstitutional nanny state law. That's a big chunk of change to pay out so my boys can take a vacation and yes that is what they do they don't look for work at all when they are on it unless its under the table.

And its not like its a surprise this is a seasonal job you go in knowing there will be a winter slow down. So I get hit with that unemployment compensation bs then I get hit with time an half over 40 now I got no issues with that but if your going to pay some one for an entire years worth a work in 9-10 months they shouldn't get to collect on top of that. One or the other but not both. Now I fired a guy last year he refused to work one day and walked off the job hes been collecting for 9 months now He worked for 9 months with me and had not the previous 6 years. And he only plans to look for a new job when it runs out that is not how it was intended to work and you sure as hell should be smart enough to know that. They should require proof of job searches after the first 4 weeks of collecting. You do them no favors allowing them to get soft and leach off of us.

Basically your preaching socialism and you defend it by complaining how landscapers spell. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

In PA and NJ BOTH the employer AND employee pay into UC but the upside is the maximum benefit is higher. In your state it is probably much lower.

Unemployment compensation is no different than SS a employee pays taxes into it is entitled to it and that is that.

In both PA and NJ you have to provide proof of job searches.

In PA and NJ if a person is fired for stealing, fighting or insubordination it is considered just cause and UC will be denied.

Teachers in PA and NJ don't collect UC in the summer because their pay is averaged out on a yearly basis and they are paid year round. You could do the same with your employees.

PROCUT1
10-12-2011, 10:25 PM
One American dollar is worth about 12-13 pesos last time I checked. That will buy the equivalent in Mexico of what $5.00 will buy here. So if you pay your Mexican workers $12.00HR what your really paying them when that money is sent back home is more like $60.00hr. Almost like hitting the lottery to them. Pay your Mexican help $2.50Hr and see how hard they DON'T work if they don't just up and quit on the spot. Or pay a American worker $60.00HR and see how hard they work.

Mexicans don't risk life & limb crossing deserts paying hundreds or even thousands to smugglers to earn a average wage when they get here.

You are correct.

Its what I keep saying.

Some people think lawn guys just can magically start paying $60 an hour to their help and all would be good in the world.

There are a lot more forces in play that determine what a job pays other than the whim of the employer.

Why do Mcdonalds cooks make minimum wage while the executive chef at a 5 star restaurant makes 6 figures?

Wouldnt mcdonalds get better employees if they paid 100 grand to their cooks?

Some jobs pay more than others. They always will.

In the lawn business its not mexicans keeping prices low.
Its the fact 90% of the industry is dominated by small owner operators with little to no real overhead.
Its not a business that all operators are on an equal playing field.

If you are going to try to run an employee operated business as a mow and go operation and run it as a real business, there is not enough profit there to employ "good paying" jobs that people are going to make a living, buy a house, raise a family etc.

You can just take that industry off the table. Its not going to happen.

You're not going to get $60 for a $30 lawn.

Those jobs still need to be filled.
Same as mcdonalds still needs people to cook for their dollar menu.

That was one of my main reasons for getting out of the lawn business. To run it the way I was, I had to work on razor thin margins. I didnt like operating that way. Always having to watch the clock and where minutes made the difference between making and losing money on a route.

The mow and go lawn business is just better suited for the owner operator or small operation.

This is such a small problem compared to the real crisis in this country, and that is the lack of livable wage jobs.

Getting rid of mexicans and opening up a few thousand $10 an hour jobs is not going to turn things around. Thats not going to save someones house from foreclosure or put them back into the middle class.

Thats not what we should be striving for either.

A.T.G LAWN CARE
10-12-2011, 10:45 PM
im African American and 16yrs old. it dosent matter what race its the ability and drive of the worker not the ethnicity and my thing is as a owner u have to make a profit but pay hard working works a fair wage if you get a 3500 dollar landscaping toss them a extra 100 or 125 if they did a good job and are of value to your business:)

cpllawncare
10-12-2011, 11:17 PM
If this were a few years ago, when there were plenty of jobs available I would certainly agree.

I think people somehow are missing the problem. There are 6-7 applicants for every one job available.

They are saying right now if you are in your 40s or more there is a very high likelihood that you will never find a job again.

People are still stuck thinking this is the 90's or something and totally dont have a grasp on the depth of this crisis.

This is a very real situation, I am 45 got layed off back in 08, realized very quickly that I was now unemployable. I was applying for anything available while starting my landscaping business, I have a degree in electronics with over 10 years experience so don't give me the no skills bit either. These protesters aren't just a bunch of lazy asses for the most part, the issue's they have ARE REAL ISSUE'S in this country. I'm also single and don't live at home with mommy so a $10/hr job won't cut it for me. We need liveable wage jobs in this country no less than $16-$17/hr. I've been very fortunate to have been able to build a small business that I can eek out a living with, I remain positive that things will get better for me, as I continue to work everyday to build my business a day at the time. I don't have any employees as of yet but when I do, they will be American and will earn a liveable wage, not from the beginning but as they prove themselves worthy I will pay them accordingly.

sdk1959
10-13-2011, 12:08 AM
College graduates are frustrated too by the lack of jobs as most have graduated with high student loan debt some in the 6 figures and no job prospects let alone a job to pay them with.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 12:55 AM
College graduates are frustrated too by the lack of jobs as most have graduated with high student loan debt some in the 6 figures and no job prospects let alone a job to pay them with.

I've read where this is one one the coming crisis, huge #s of college grads with no way to pay for their student loan debt, it's a vicious circle it starts with Corporate America taking back part of the responsibility to educate and retrain their workers, they claim a lack of skills is the problem? so the solution is to train or retrain your workers. This is a huge problem elsewhere in the world also, to many educated workers that can't get jobs that pay enough to live on. Sorry but your not going to get quality workers for $10/hr

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 06:52 AM
None, I'm a solo operator.

But if I were hiring someone I would look at & be more concerned about the applicants job history, duties, attendance, job skills, equipment used & references and not whether they are currently employed or length of unemployment.

If they worked for a large company for a number of years most likely they may have had more than one supervisor and I would get references from all of them if possible. Many times if someone had more than one boss one may give a good reference and one may not so it's best to hear from all before forming an opinion about a applicant.

Kinda figured that as its always the ones with no employees standing up for employees. When in spring you have 3 uncashed checks sitting on your desk to make sure there is money for your employees to cash theirs, get back to me.

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 06:55 AM
This is a very real situation, I am 45 got layed off back in 08, realized very quickly that I was now unemployable. I was applying for anything available while starting my landscaping business, I have a degree in electronics with over 10 years experience so don't give me the no skills bit either. These protesters aren't just a bunch of lazy asses for the most part, the issue's they have ARE REAL ISSUE'S in this country. I'm also single and don't live at home with mommy so a $10/hr job won't cut it for me. We need liveable wage jobs in this country no less than $16-$17/hr. I've been very fortunate to have been able to build a small business that I can eek out a living with, I remain positive that things will get better for me, as I continue to work everyday to build my business a day at the time. I don't have any employees as of yet but when I do, they will be American and will earn a liveable wage, not from the beginning but as they prove themselves worthy I will pay them accordingly.

And you sir are proof right there that Americans will do what they have to when forced to. Good for you. and good luck with your business.

sdk1959
10-13-2011, 06:56 AM
I've read where this is one one the coming crisis, huge #s of college grads with no way to pay for their student loan debt, it's a vicious circle it starts with Corporate America taking back part of the responsibility to educate and retrain their workers, they claim a lack of skills is the problem? so the solution is to train or retrain your workers. This is a huge problem elsewhere in the world also, to many educated workers that can't get jobs that pay enough to live on. Sorry but your not going to get quality workers for $10/hr

I agree. When was the last time you saw a apprenticeship advertised? I think in the early 1980's was the last time I saw one.

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 06:58 AM
Sorry but your not going to get quality workers for $10/hr

Then pay more..

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 07:08 AM
None, I'm a solo operator.

.

So are you collecting unemployment while running your solo op?


Actualy no need to answer. Im sure everyone in this thread knows the answer after reading your posts.

sdk1959
10-13-2011, 07:27 AM
So are you collecting unemployment while running your solo op?


Actualy no need to answer. Im sure everyone in this thread knows the answer after reading your posts.

No, I work full-time, do business part-time. Last time I collected was in early 2003 and know I what it's like to look for a REAL job to pay REAL bills. So I know what the currrent unemployed with REAL bills are going through looking for REAL jobs. My motto is get a REAL job.

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 07:31 AM
well that certainly explains the dem attitude.

txgrassguy
10-13-2011, 10:13 AM
One American dollar is worth about 12-13 pesos last time I checked. That will buy the equivalent in Mexico of what $5.00 will buy here. So if you pay your Mexican workers $12.00HR what your really paying them when that money is sent back home is more like $60.00hr. Almost like hitting the lottery to them. Pay your Mexican help $2.50Hr and see how hard they DON'T work if they don't just up and quit on the spot. Or pay a American worker $60.00HR and see how hard they work.

Mexicans don't risk life & limb crossing deserts paying hundreds or even thousands to smugglers to earn a average wage when they get here.

This is, without doubt, the most ridiculous attitude in your series of posts to date.
Profit is not a dirty word some like you tend to believe it to be. Market forces and one's ability to run a business while generating a profit dictates what wage(s) may be paid while satisfying on-going revenue demands.
As a direct corollary, the more efficient the labor expenditure is - the more profitable a business becomes.
Additionally, the cost of living in your area of operation dictates to a certain degree what wage must be offered in order to attract more efficient labor while satisfying the prevalent rule a business must remain profitable in order to sustain continuous operation.
Add to this the abject differences in cultures and work ethic and the real issue governing local indigenous labor verse off-shore personnel are revealed.
After twenty years in various aspects of this industry and hiring well over three hundred people to fill various positions I have noticed that with very few exceptions indigenous local labor is unwilling to perform at levels necessary to sustain profitability that off-shore labor stands ready to complete.
Adaptability, willingness to perform different tasks, a positive attitude, etc is what is lacking from the indigenous labor pool verse off-shore personnel and wage has little or no long term impact on this difference.
This is the true employment crisis facing indigenous labor not currently employed, the attitude of accepting employment different than what these people feel they are owed. And this is the overarching attitude in the article as well.
Which is why I, for one, as a profitable business owner, find long term unemployed indigenous laborers to be extremely suspect due to their obvious unwillingness to adapt to market forces currently effecting the work place.
Now, to place my response in context to my area of operation:
Do I make more money annually than my staff? Most certainly and this will continue. I face the burden of generating the revenue necessary to support the business needs not to mention the other continually pressing needs as well.
Do I hire locally? Whenever possible most assuredly Yes. However, the problem is indigenous labor refuses to perform at a level required for me to sustain a profitable business - off shore personnel fill this requirement quite adequately.
What is my per hour labor rate? Equivalent to what a licensed class B concrete truck driver earns and I still cannot acquire indigenous labor to fill vacant positions - and as a matter of fact neither can the multiple concrete trucking companies either.
So, your solution is to increase the wage labor receives but you discount the need for the business to remain sustainable.
This entire process is called a free market so either the indigenous labor either learns to adapt or remains chronically unemployed similar to that woman in the article.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 10:15 AM
well that certainly explains the dem attitude.

I honestly don't think it's a republican or democrat issue, it's a demand issue, when Corporate America hires people and pays them a decent wage those people will in turn create demand, the gov't can't create demand. Corporate America screams that gov't is getting in the way which is true but still it starts with decent jobs. I say start by training the middile class worker with the skills they need to earn a decent living, I've seen no effort whatsoever around here by any of the companies to try to train people for new jobs, and we're a huge manufacturing state. As a matter of fact I was told not to mention anything about wanting training of any kind to a potential employer they would throw my resume in the trash immediately, these are huge corporations not small mom and pop operatons.

CL&T
10-13-2011, 03:26 PM
After twenty years in various aspects of this industry and hiring well over three hundred people to fill various positions I have noticed that with very few exceptions indigenous local labor is unwilling to perform at levels necessary to sustain profitability that off-shore labor stands ready to complete... Adaptability, willingness to perform different tasks, a positive attitude, etc is what is lacking from the indigenous labor pool verse off-shore personnel and wage has little or no long term impact on this difference... either the indigenous labor either learns to adapt or remains chronically unemployed...


I don't doubt what you are saying but I can assure you that there are "indigenous" workers out there willing to work. Maybe just not in your area, maybe you need to look for more mature workers. Perhaps too we need to go back and revisit what I said about our educational system in this country and how it produces lazy, entitled people who think they deserve $50K to start just to sit on their asses in some office.

Getting your hands dirty is a stigma today.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 04:03 PM
I don't doubt what you are saying but I can assure you that there are "indigenous" workers out there willing to work. Maybe just not in your area, maybe you need to look for more mature workers. Perhaps too we need to go back and revisit what I said about our educational system in this country and how it produces lazy, entitled people who think they deserve $50K to start just to sit on their asses in some office.

Getting your hands dirty is a stigma today.

I agree, this is a whole nother problem within itself.

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 05:06 PM
I honestly don't think it's a republican or democrat issue, it's a demand issue, when Corporate America hires people and pays them a decent wage those people will in turn create demand, the gov't can't create demand. Corporate America screams that gov't is getting in the way which is true but still it starts with decent jobs. I say start by training the middile class worker with the skills they need to earn a decent living, I've seen no effort whatsoever around here by any of the companies to try to train people for new jobs, and we're a huge manufacturing state. As a matter of fact I was told not to mention anything about wanting training of any kind to a potential employer they would throw my resume in the trash immediately, these are huge corporations not small mom and pop operatons.

The demand start with the American consumer. Till they start demanding American made products companies will continue to offshore.
Thats whats so funny about the protestors, if they want real change , they should be protesting with their wallets.

txgrassguy
10-13-2011, 05:31 PM
[QUOTE=CL&T;4185562]I don't doubt what you are saying but I can assure you that there are "indigenous" workers out there willing to work. Maybe just not in your area, maybe you need to look for more mature workers.QUOTE]

No, you cannot assure me. I have been in business in the same location for over twelve years and after 321 indigenous employees I can state with a high degree of accuracy the labor force you mention simply does not exist.

And I am not alone in this position, fulfilling vacant positions amongst the small businesses in my area is an extremely critical problem and has continued to cause all sorts of expansion issues.

And quite frankly I, for one, couldn't care less any longer. I am simply fed up with the pandering "what are you going to do for me" attitude hence my use of available off-shore labor.

Additionally, I have had roughly half of the previously mention 321 indigenous labor force simply walk by saying they'd rather make minimum wage flipping burgers than receive the $12.00/hr starting wage I offer for unskilled labor.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 06:12 PM
The demand start with the American consumer. Till they start demanding American made products companies will continue to offshore.
Thats whats so funny about the protestors, if they want real change , they should be protesting with their wallets.

The problem is to far gone for that, you can't buy American made products anymore, they simply don't exist.

PROCUT1
10-13-2011, 06:13 PM
The demand start with the American consumer. Till they start demanding American made products companies will continue to offshore.
Thats whats so funny about the protestors, if they want real change , they should be protesting with their wallets.

With what money? Thats the whole problem

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 06:21 PM
With what money? Thats the whole problem

Exactly! If your broke how are you going to buy anything? And by broke I mean it does no one any good to make just enough money to live if you pay the mortage or rent, food and utilities and gas back and forth to work and it leaves no room for anything else ALA $10/hr your doing no one any good.

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 06:21 PM
The problem is to far gone for that, you can't buy American made products anymore, they simply don't exist.

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/bottoms.html


http://www.madeinusa.org/

AI Inc
10-13-2011, 06:23 PM
Exactly! If your broke how are you going to buy anything? And by broke I mean it does no one any good to make just enough money to live if you pay the mortage or rent, food and utilities and gas back and forth to work and it leaves no room for anything else ALA $10/hr your doing no one any good.

People may be broke in your area , not in mine. Unemployment here is 5.7 statewide. A little worse in the real rural areas and 2.3 in the dartmout region.

City next to me is a stateline retail mecca and we have no sales tax. Ya cant even get a parking spot on a weekend , same goes for a table at a restaurant. Sat nights most are 1-1/2 hr wait.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 06:24 PM
Then pay more..

I plan to!!!

sdk1959
10-13-2011, 06:40 PM
The demand start with the American consumer. Till they start demanding American made products companies will continue to offshore.
Thats whats so funny about the protestors, if they want real change , they should be protesting with their wallets.

The one thing I agree 1000% percent with you on. I refer to this site at the link below often :usflag:

http://www.americansworking.com/

CL&T
10-13-2011, 08:07 PM
People may be broke in your area , not in mine. Unemployment here is 5.7 statewide. A little worse in the real rural areas and 2.3 in the dartmout region.

City next to me is a stateline retail mecca and we have no sales tax. Ya cant even get a parking spot on a weekend , same goes for a table at a restaurant. Sat nights most are 1-1/2 hr wait.

Dartmouth is a very affluent area, wouldn't you say?

CL&T
10-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Additionally, I have had roughly half of the previously mention 321 indigenous labor force simply walk by saying they'd rather make minimum wage flipping burgers than receive the $12.00/hr starting wage I offer for unskilled labor.

I find that rather strange. Obviously it's not the money. What is it about your employment that makes flipping burgers for less money better than working for you?

Kelly's Landscaping
10-13-2011, 09:58 PM
I'll give you an example of why I detest the current system. I met a guy a few years back who talked to a cop on line he thought she was 14 long story short he did a few months and got 15 years of probation put on the registry and years of "treatment". Now he was a manager for a dept store I won't give the name but made about 60k a year so he lost that job instantly and with cause obviously. So he collected unemployment 500 dollars a week for 2 solid years so he sat on his ass and collected 50,000 dollars hes in his 20s no excuse for this. So when he got down to the last 2 months he panics and wants to get a CDL to get a good job of course for 2 years this never went through his lib mind. Now for the part that offended me so much I considered killing him he wanted the state to pay for his retraining apparently the 50k he got wasn't enough no he needed 3 k more for truck driver school. You know where the last place I saw him was the poker table at fox-woods that's what he used my tax dollars for.

Either we adopt a system where we put them to work in exchange for their checks or one where they have to pay it back some day or we can just continue to throw money away. Would he have sat on his ass for 2 years if he would have to pay it back Hell NO. Or if he got to pick litter up from the sides of our highways for his check would he have stayed on the system for 2 years NO Way. In both cases he would have regained his sense of dignity back a lot sooner then letting him collect for 2 years for no reason.

CL&T
10-13-2011, 10:38 PM
Why is that any of your business? The department store was his employer and paid for his insurance not you. And by the way, you have to pay for comp right? If somebody gets hurt on the job and comp pays does that piss you off too?

Kelly's Landscaping
10-13-2011, 10:57 PM
It's not about what he did I couldn't care less about that its the length of time they allow now since Obama got in. It encourages people to sit on the side lines. 1# we can not afford it and don't give me that bs they paid in, that covers them for 6 months the rest of that was stimulus and the last extension all adding to our national debt now over 14.5 trillion. 2# get a damm job the idea we should subsidize people so they can wait till the perfect rate of pay comes along is ridiculous. 3# comp isn't the same thing not even close you get hurt you get paid and they do everything in there power to make sure its real and if they determine your faking it or you can return to work you do. But collecting nooo go ahead go 2 years we believe you are trying hard. The guy collecting on me for 9 months hasn't looked for a job yet he plays video games 20 hours and day and how do I know this his brother its my business partner which should tell you I didn't fire him lightly.

CL&T
10-13-2011, 11:23 PM
It's not about what he did I couldn't care less about that its the length of time they allow now since Obama got in.

Ahhh, now I understand. It's Obama's fault. I think you would be better off directing some of that bitterness towards the parasites that make their money at the expense of other's well being. That's the real problem.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 11:39 PM
People may be broke in your area , not in mine. Unemployment here is 5.7 statewide. A little worse in the real rural areas and 2.3 in the dartmout region.

City next to me is a stateline retail mecca and we have no sales tax. Ya cant even get a parking spot on a weekend , same goes for a table at a restaurant. Sat nights most are 1-1/2 hr wait.

I'm refering to a national problem, not a local problem, there are area's that are doing just fine, the local economy here is getting better I think we're hovering around 9-10% at one point we were at almost 15% but is a long long way from getting back to where it needs to be, we are an extremely heavy manufacturing state here, so we got hammered when the recession hit, at one point we had the second highest unemployment in the country, it amazes me how all of a sudden, almost overnight in fact that these companies decided they didn't need workers yet like you say the demand for goods and services hadn't fallen off yet at that point and never really fell off in the first place.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 11:47 PM
http://www.allamericanclothing.com/bottoms.html


http://www.madeinusa.org/

So there are a few examples but as a whole you can't say I'm only going to buy American products, there is not one TV made in the USA! and I'm pretty sure the same applies for computers and cell phones, of which nobody can do without these days.

cpllawncare
10-13-2011, 11:53 PM
I find that rather strange. Obviously it's not the money. What is it about your employment that makes flipping burgers for less money better than working for you?

I would agree! there is something else going on there!

sdk1959
10-14-2011, 12:52 AM
I'll give you an example of why I detest the current system. I met a guy a few years back who talked to a cop on line he thought she was 14 long story short he did a few months and got 15 years of probation put on the registry and years of "treatment". Now he was a manager for a dept store I won't give the name but made about 60k a year so he lost that job instantly and with cause obviously. So he collected unemployment 500 dollars a week for 2 solid years so he sat on his ass and collected 50,000 dollars hes in his 20s no excuse for this. So when he got down to the last 2 months he panics and wants to get a CDL to get a good job of course for 2 years this never went through his lib mind. Now for the part that offended me so much I considered killing him he wanted the state to pay for his retraining apparently the 50k he got wasn't enough no he needed 3 k more for truck driver school. You know where the last place I saw him was the poker table at fox-woods that's what he used my tax dollars for.

Either we adopt a system where we put them to work in exchange for their checks or one where they have to pay it back some day or we can just continue to throw money away. Would he have sat on his ass for 2 years if he would have to pay it back Hell NO. Or if he got to pick litter up from the sides of our highways for his check would he have stayed on the system for 2 years NO Way. In both cases he would have regained his sense of dignity back a lot sooner then letting him collect for 2 years for no reason.

A far as UC he and the company he works for paid into it so he's entitled to it just like SS. The amount he gets is based on his earnings. Unlike welfare where you don't have to have worked or paid a dime into to get it and everyone gets the same amount yet everyone pays into it like a slush fund with those with higher incomes paying much more.

As far as him thinking he is entitled to free schooling paid by the government he is way off base there. Only time that happens is if your job is lost though foreign competition such as a foreign company buys out a American Company
or relocating overseas.

I don't know how it is in CT but in PA and NJ and in a lot of other states you have to make employment contacts every week to keep getting benefits.

AI Inc
10-14-2011, 06:32 AM
Dartmouth is a very affluent area, wouldn't you say?

poor , no . Very affluent, I wouldnt go that far. Average household income is $20,000 less then my town.

AI Inc
10-14-2011, 06:36 AM
Why is that any of your business? The department store was his employer and paid for his insurance not you. And by the way, you have to pay for comp right? If somebody gets hurt on the job and comp pays does that piss you off too?

In most states the employer is only responsible for the first 26 weeks. Not sure how ct is set up.

AI Inc
10-14-2011, 06:40 AM
So there are a few examples but as a whole you can't say I'm only going to buy American products, there is not one TV made in the USA! and I'm pretty sure the same applies for computers and cell phones, of which nobody can do without these days.

Vizio is made in Cali. Have you watched any of Dianne sawyers " made in America"?

AI Inc
10-14-2011, 06:42 AM
I'm refering to a national problem, not a local problem, there are area's that are doing just fine, the local economy here is getting better I think we're hovering around 9-10% at one point we were at almost 15% but is a long long way from getting back to where it needs to be, we are an extremely heavy manufacturing state here, so we got hammered when the recession hit, at one point we had the second highest unemployment in the country, it amazes me how all of a sudden, almost overnight in fact that these companies decided they didn't need workers yet like you say the demand for goods and services hadn't fallen off yet at that point and never really fell off in the first place.

Of course demands for goods has fallen off. Not just here , but worldwide.

AI Inc
10-14-2011, 06:44 AM
I don't know how it is in CT but in PA and NJ and in a lot of other states you have to make employment contacts every week to keep getting benefits.

Thats the way it is up here too, and someone actualy looks at it. In mass you just have to lie to the automated system and say you looked for a job when you call in.

sdk1959
10-14-2011, 07:05 AM
It's not about what he did I couldn't care less about that its the length of time they allow now since Obama got in. It encourages people to sit on the side lines. 1# we can not afford it and don't give me that bs they paid in, that covers them for 6 months the rest of that was stimulus and the last extension all adding to our national debt now over 14.5 trillion. 2# get a damm job the idea we should subsidize people so they can wait till the perfect rate of pay comes along is ridiculous. 3# comp isn't the same thing not even close you get hurt you get paid and they do everything in there power to make sure its real and if they determine your faking it or you can return to work you do. But collecting nooo go ahead go 2 years we believe you are trying hard. The guy collecting on me for 9 months hasn't looked for a job yet he plays video games 20 hours and day and how do I know this his brother its my business partner which should tell you I didn't fire him lightly.

The states can give UC extensions for up to a year, after that it is the federal government.

cpllawncare
10-14-2011, 09:44 AM
Vizio is made in Cali. Have you watched any of Dianne sawyers " made in America"?

Assembled or actually made? I mean fabricated from the ground up. We have BMW here and they only assemble their cars here,they said they refused to have their engines and drivetrains made here because of the poor workmanship by Americans. But they came here vowing to create thousands of jobs, everybody welcomed them with open arms, what they didn't say was they were going to mostly be temporary low paying jobs, I guess a job is a job.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-14-2011, 10:35 AM
In most states the employer is only responsible for the first 26 weeks. Not sure how ct is set up.

That is exactly how ct is set up so he collected for 18 months on the rest of us and as for the idiot that didn't like the Obama comment you need to read your party's stimulus bill it was union welfare and unemployment extensions that's about it.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-14-2011, 10:43 AM
The states can give UC extensions for up to a year, after that it is the federal government.

And what was the benefit of that? our new Dem gov has been in less then a year and has already passed more then a 100 new taxes and fees further more we all got one time bills based on the number of employees we have to offset our unemployment fund which is 700 million in the red. And NO they do not require you look here until 6 months and it seems they have waved that as I have proof of not looking at 9 months.

You do not seem to get the 2 major issues with long term unemployment benefits besides being cruel we can not afford it. And don't take this the wrong way but as a part time landscaper solo guy where do you get off even speaking to men who have employees and run real businesses.

txgrassguy
10-14-2011, 01:26 PM
I find that rather strange. Obviously it's not the money. What is it about your employment that makes flipping burgers for less money better than working for you?

Interesting that you should ask since I have both thought about working conditions, environment, etc and the effect on indigenous labor.
In short it comes down to these simple tenants:
1. C. Texas is a hostile place to work of of doors. This year alone I suffered through 130+ days of 100*F+ heat by 10:30 am and have measured temperatures as high as 123*F at one job by 2:30pm. Not to mention native plants often have thorns or serrated leaf edges, properties are large and my accounts quite diverse regarding service requirements.
2. My training program - briefly stated means I explain once, show twice, supervise the results then make corrections. Provided you want to continue with my company you either show improvement or leave - I will not have "rout" type assistance. Or another way to explain - show the ability to use your brain - if not I have no room for zero motivation.
3. I have a absolute zero tolerance toward drug use regardless if it is lawfully prescribed or a scheduled narcotic. My insurance carrier will not insure my business unless I have this type of policy in effect. My clients as well demand accountability which in turn requires the stated policy.
4. Lack of motivation. Essentially a culture clash with reality. Indigenous labor wants more than they are entitled too as a result of their labor/wage despite my wage scale being substantially higher than comparable businesses.
I attribute this to the "MTV" or "Jersey Shore" mentality - they see it on television and want it immediately for themselves with no thought regarding the work ethic necessary to achieve.
5. Staff MUST have a valid drivers license and nor will I hire anyone regardless of ability who has outstanding judgments against them for whatever the reason. I have been badly, badly burned on intensive job sites where the Constable shows up with a warrant to arrest a staff member or in two instance several, for non-payment then leaving me in a real lurch.
6. I pay a good days wage for an honest days work. Meaning no malingering, no texting, chatting, bullcrap work ethic - you are either here to work or not. It is just that simple. I am many years older than all of my staff and I have no problem meeting the physical requirements, therefore my staff must as well.

The end result? Off-shore labor since the indigenous labor refuses to comply with even basic employment standards/demands.

I have said this before and will continue to do so - I run a business. Not a social welfare program, and I cannot abide by the unneeded after effects of a staff member's poor decision making process.

From my first hand observations I have noted some areas of the U.S. have a better indigenous labor pool available than other areas. As it happens, my business is in an area historically known to be under achieving.

PROCUT1
10-14-2011, 08:16 PM
TX

Their answer will always be PAY MORE.

If you paid lazy people more they would all of a sudden become productive.

If you got rid of Mexicans, then the 40-50 year old unemployed middle managers would jump out there and run circles in that 100 degree heat.

If you cut unemployment, you could have a whole crew of people that are miserable every second they are with you doing a job they hate for 1/4 of what they used to make.

If we force people to do that, you could have one heck of a crew there.
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cpllawncare
10-14-2011, 10:44 PM
I agree with basically what most of you are saying, It's a very complicated problem that goes very deep, I would say TX is pretty much on target, it sounds like he's paying a fair wage for this industry, about what I would be looking to pay, Start about 10/hr and as they prove themselves go up from there, I would reward the hardest workers with bonuses and promotions. Once I had more than one crew I would have some form of crew competition and weekly or monthly award for best crew or something to that nature. My old boss used to take us out to lunch once a month and feed us steak for best crew, I always thought that was cool! It's the little things that show you care when your the owner instead of just driving the work down your workers throats day in and day out. We could go on and on with this topic but I think most of us have some grass to cut before winter gets here at least I do.The main thing is just be fair with your workers most of the time, not all, they will return the favor with a fair days work,

PROCUT1
10-14-2011, 11:07 PM
The problem is $10 an hour sucks. Plain and simple.
You're not raising a family and buying a house on $10 an hour.

The flip side is. Some jobs are just $10 an hour jobs.
You're not going to make 50k a year cutting grass on a crew.

Its not a career path. Its a dead end low wage labor intensive sucky job.

Prices for lawns are not going to double or triple to be able to make $10hr jobs $20hr jobs.
That's reality.

"Pay more" isn't the answer. Not in this industry.

You have to find people who want the jobs. And that's foreigners. It used to be college kids but that was a couple generations ago before computers and x boxes.

I don't care what it pays, its not a job for most middle aged people. Or at least it shouldn't be by that point in your life.


The problem in this country is not Mexicans taking bottom of the barrel jobs.
Its the lack of real jobs. Jobs that's you can make a real living at.

Getting a bunch of 45-55 year olds who have worked in an office for the last 25 years and sticking them behind wheelbarrows for $10 an hour is not the answer to our problems.
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CL&T
10-15-2011, 01:16 AM
The flip side is. Some jobs are just $10 an hour jobs.
You're not going to make 50k a year cutting grass on a crew. Its not a career path. Its a dead end low wage labor intensive sucky job. Prices for lawns are not going to double or triple to be able to make $10hr jobs $20hr jobs. That's reality. "Pay more" isn't the answer. Not in this industry.

I have to agree. The only ones that stand to make money in this business are the owners.

sdk1959
10-15-2011, 01:34 AM
And what was the benefit of that? our new Dem gov has been in less then a year and has already passed more then a 100 new taxes and fees further more we all got one time bills based on the number of employees we have to offset our unemployment fund which is 700 million in the red. And NO they do not require you look here until 6 months and it seems they have waved that as I have proof of not looking at 9 months.

You do not seem to get the 2 major issues with long term unemployment benefits besides being cruel we can not afford it. And don't take this the wrong way but as a part time landscaper solo guy where do you get off even speaking to men who have employees and run real businesses.

Because I know all sides of the issue. In the past I have been a employer, an employee and have been thru layoffs.

The negative posters here keep giving examples of people with no real bills, most with no real skills bumming on unemployment. No examples are given of unsubsidized responsible people who have real bills, mortgage, family, car loans ect that had professional/skilled jobs paying top salaries bumming on unemployment. Why? Because people with professional or skilled jobs, real bills who don't want to lose their house, car, ruin their credit, end up divorced if they are married will use UC as intended and look for a comparable job right from get go but professional/skilled jobs are not a dime a dozen so it takes time even in a good economy to get one. They are not going to forfeit the UC they and their employer paid taxes for to run out and take any unskilled low paying job and lose everything they worked for. And most employers would be smart enough not to hire them for such a job because they are overqualified and know they would quit in a heartbeat when they landed a job in their field.

To paint ALL the long term unemployed as bums by using examples of irresponsible people with no skills, no real bills, bumming on unemployment just shows pure ignorance.

AI Inc
10-15-2011, 06:03 AM
The problem is $10 an hour sucks. Plain and simple.
You're not raising a family and buying a house on $10 an hour.

The flip side is. Some jobs are just $10 an hour jobs.
You're not going to make 50k a year cutting grass on a crew.

Its not a career path. Its a dead end low wage labor intensive sucky job.

Prices for lawns are not going to double or triple to be able to make $10hr jobs $20hr jobs.
That's reality.

"Pay more" isn't the answer. Not in this industry.

You have to find people who want the jobs. And that's foreigners. It used to be college kids but that was a couple generations ago before computers and x boxes.

I don't care what it pays, its not a job for most middle aged people. Or at least it shouldn't be by that point in your life.


The problem in this country is not Mexicans taking bottom of the barrel jobs.
Its the lack of real jobs. Jobs that's you can make a real living at.

Getting a bunch of 45-55 year olds who have worked in an office for the last 25 years and sticking them behind wheelbarrows for $10 an hour is not the answer to our problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

So what is the answer?

CL&T
10-16-2011, 12:32 AM
So what is the answer?

A start would be to go after the corporations that offshore their labor and engineering to bring back our jobs. Go after the businesses that hire illegals. Go after the financial industry that is f***ing this country over.

To do that we need a president with some balls who can take control and not take any s***.

sdk1959
10-16-2011, 01:20 AM
So what is the answer?

A start would be to go after the corporations that offshore their labor and engineering to bring back our jobs. Go after the businesses that hire illegals. Go after the financial industry that is f***ing this country over.

To do that we need a president with some balls who can take control and not take any s***.

I agree with your statement, only problem is we owe China a ton of money and until that is paid back there is no political will to pass regulations to stop offshore labor, cheap imports.

The link below to a Saturday Night Live opening clip is funny but sadly very true.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/110317/saturday-night-live-china-cold-open

Showpropserv
10-16-2011, 01:24 AM
The answer is and not many are going to like it what do countries do ie mexico and china THEY SEND THEM HERE and SEND OUR MONEY BACK the solution MOVE WHERE THE JOBS ARE and send the money back sorry but the jobs are not comming back

AI Inc
10-16-2011, 07:49 AM
So a employee who lives in NH and has been unemplyed 7 months should just suffer and wing it acording to the federal gvmt.Even if said employee lives 2 minutes from the Maine border the answer is still pound sand. Yet the person over the border in Maine can collect 2 yrs.
Meanwhile cross the state and the person in VT living 5 min away from the dartmouth region with its 2.3 % unemployment can collect 2 yrs. Great plan .

cpllawncare
10-16-2011, 11:59 AM
I agree that the owners are the ones with any opportunity in this industry, and the labor isn't helped much with a $10/hr job but if you start him at $10/hr and progressivly move him up as he shows his worth over a period of time he becomes a crew leader and now he can make $15/hr+ this is what I'm talking about as far as being fair. I see a lot of owners that don't want to move people up, OR they want to take 10 years to get a guy up to a crew leader position by that time he's discouraged and gives up. I worked for a guy that started everybody at minimum wage and only gave 10 cent raises once a year to his workers, how ridiculous is that? Yet in his mind he was doing people a favor just by the act of giving them a job. Now I know there is this sense of entitlement issue, for a lot of people, And I'm aware that your laborers aren't going to make 50K a year, but what's wrong with a decent living that he can at least go out and buy a used car and pay for the essentials gas, rent, food and such, which in this country starts at around $12/hr +.

Showpropserv
10-16-2011, 12:16 PM
heck some guys up here want to pay the formans 10-12

AI Inc
10-16-2011, 12:25 PM
My service tech makes $20 an hr with paid holidays , paid vacation and a company truck he takes home. Next season he will make $21 when the season starts he gets a $1 raise as he has every yr he has worked for me.

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 12:48 PM
You brought up why I'm always asking what people mean when they say "pay more"

From my experience the average pay Mexican or American is $10-15 an hour. Which no matter how you add it up sucks. Its not a career.

Even at $15 an hour.
Lets take NY for example
Take out 4.5 months you're not working
Take out avg 1 day a week rain
Cut hours during July and August when the grass is fried.

Spread that over he year and you're not making a lot of money.
Where I lived a one bedroom apt was &1000 a month plus utilities
150 a month car insurance
Gas
Food
Etc.

Even working a full week every week you can barely scrape by just paying essential living.

At $15 an hour it costs the company roughly $20

2 guys in a truck at $40 an hour mowing $30 lawns. Even hauling butt it doesn't leave any wiggle room for the company. The margin is so low that if you take an extra 10 minutes having a smoke it wipes out the profit.
There is just no room to pay more.

All these jokers on here that figure a dollar a minute are great examples. That leaves you 20 an hour to pay expenses, trucks, insurance, fuel, shop, office, equipment, repairs, plus a check for the owner.

Raising prices isn't possible if you're already priced at the top of your market.

I got out for that very reason.

It was a really really tough business to try to be big at. To run multiple crews and have all the overhead that a standalone company has, you have to do a huge volume and literally keep track of your numbers to the penny and to the minute.

Guys who are owner operators and work out of their house can't understand that.
Those guys also dominate the industry.
They have a huge advantage over the bigger guys in the residential market.

They're making much higher margins and could pay their help quite a bit more before they feel any of the squeeze a big company does.

But there is a limit to how far they can grow.

Tons of guys try to go big, very very few succeed.
The numbers are that tight.
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PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 12:52 PM
My service tech makes $20 an hr with paid holidays , paid vacation and a company truck he takes home. Next season he will make $21 when the season starts he gets a $1 raise as he has every yr he has worked for me.

I'm assuming by service tech you're not talking a lawn cutting laborer.
Apples and oranges there.

A guy working a quick oil change place isn't making half what a factory trained dealership technician is making.
They may both work in the auto industry but you can't compare those jobs.
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cpllawncare
10-16-2011, 12:54 PM
My service tech makes $20 an hr with paid holidays , paid vacation and a company truck he takes home. Next season he will make $21 when the season starts he gets a $1 raise as he has every yr he has worked for me.

I would use him as an example to the lower guys of what you can become if you show the right desire and attitude. I just think that as a owner /mgr you should be lifting people up not keeping them down. If I had a guy that showed interest in going somewhere I would do my best to provide that opportunity for him, ultimately it's up to him but don't keep him down so low that he has no chance of ever bettering himself, even if it means he goes elsewhere to work. At least you can say you had a hand in his success.

PRO, That's why I don't want to go BIG as you say, one or two crews is plenty for me. When it gets to the point that I'm just a guy trying to make numbers, I'm doing no one anygood.

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 12:57 PM
When I had my bucket truck I had an electrician working for me 2 days a week changing parking light bulbs and ballasts. He was paid $30 an hour. I also could bill him and the truck out at $110 an hour.

But there was no way in the world I could put him on a mowing crew.

But he worked for the same landscape company as the $13 an hour guys.
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PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 01:09 PM
I've lost guys that made me tear up when they left. Really great guys, really great attitudes but they hit a ceiling with my business.
I would have paid them double what they were making and they would have earned every penny. But there was just no way.

Before I sold the business my top guy was making 52k a year salary year round. Full health Insurance, a company take home truck, uniforms, cell phone. He was worth it. But that was one position out of 15. The other 14 didn't have anywhere to go as long as he had that position. And he had nowhere to go either. The next level up was me.
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cpllawncare
10-16-2011, 01:26 PM
I've lost guys that made me tear up when they left. Really great guys, really great attitudes but they hit a ceiling with my business.
I would have paid them double what they were making and they would have earned every penny. But there was just no way.

Before I sold the business my top guy was making 52k a year salary year round. Full health Insurance, a company take home truck, uniforms, cell phone. He was worth it. But that was one position out of 15. The other 14 didn't have anywhere to go as long as he had that position. And he had nowhere to go either. The next level up was me.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea! that's the hard part, I've had jobs that I regret leaving, I had great bosses and a great job, but they couldn't pay me enough, looking back I would be better off now just having stayed with the lower pay and better environment, I guess hindsight is twenty twenty.

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 01:35 PM
A small business trying to survive and make it where over 90% fail is not the same as a monster profitable corporation heavily subsidized, where their top management makes an average persons yearly salary by Tuesday morning every week. Demanding thousands of employees to take pay cuts and sacrifice so they can squeeze the stock price up a few more cents and throw around a couple hundred million more in bonuses.

Same as "taxing the rich" brings up examples of doctors and hard working contractors instead of wall street con artists and bank CEOs
Posted via Mobile Device

cpllawncare
10-16-2011, 02:37 PM
A small business trying to survive and make it where over 90% fail is not the same as a monster profitable corporation heavily subsidized, where their top management makes an average persons yearly salary by Tuesday morning every week. Demanding thousands of employees to take pay cuts and sacrifice so they can squeeze the stock price up a few more cents and throw around a couple hundred million more in bonuses.

Same as "taxing the rich" brings up examples of doctors and hard working contractors instead of wall street con artists and bank CEOs
Posted via Mobile Device

Yep, and that's what the protest is about all the con artist sqeezing the little guy out!

CL&T
10-16-2011, 03:05 PM
Same as "taxing the rich" brings up examples of doctors and hard working contractors instead of wall street con artists and bank CEOs.

I don't think anybody is complaining about those that earn their money the old fashioned way no matter how much they make. It's the people who game the system to create their wealth at the expense of others that need to be eliminated.

Not far from me is some hedge fund guy that is building a 30 million dollar house (if you can even call that a house).

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 03:15 PM
You're correct. But the right uses those people as examples for the rich while the left is talking about wall St con men
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AI Inc
10-16-2011, 04:08 PM
I'm assuming by service tech you're not talking a lawn cutting laborer.
Apples and oranges there.

A guy working a quick oil change place isn't making half what a factory trained dealership technician is making.
They may both work in the auto industry but you can't compare those jobs.
Posted via Mobile Device

You are correct . He started as a laborer making $8 an hr.

AI Inc
10-16-2011, 04:13 PM
You brought up why I'm always asking what people mean when they say "pay more"

From my experience the average pay Mexican or American is $10-15 an hour. Which no matter how you add it up sucks. Its not a career.

Even at $15 an hour.
Lets take NY for example
Take out 4.5 months you're not working
Take out avg 1 day a week rain
Cut hours during July and August when the grass is fried.

Spread that over he year and you're not making a lot of money.
Where I lived a one bedroom apt was &1000 a month plus utilities
150 a month car insurance
Gas
Food
Etc.

Even working a full week every week you can barely scrape by just paying essential living.

At $15 an hour it costs the company roughly $20

2 guys in a truck at $40 an hour mowing $30 lawns. Even hauling butt it doesn't leave any wiggle room for the company. The margin is so low that if you take an extra 10 minutes having a smoke it wipes out the profit.
There is just no room to pay more.

All these jokers on here that figure a dollar a minute are great examples. That leaves you 20 an hour to pay expenses, trucks, insurance, fuel, shop, office, equipment, repairs, plus a check for the owner.

Raising prices isn't possible if you're already priced at the top of your market.

I got out for that very reason.

It was a really really tough business to try to be big at. To run multiple crews and have all the overhead that a standalone company has, you have to do a huge volume and literally keep track of your numbers to the penny and to the minute.

Guys who are owner operators and work out of their house can't understand that.
Those guys also dominate the industry.
They have a huge advantage over the bigger guys in the residential market.

They're making much higher margins and could pay their help quite a bit more before they feel any of the squeeze a big company does.

But there is a limit to how far they can grow.

Tons of guys try to go big, very very few succeed.
The numbers are that tight.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sorry but being a laborer on a cutting crew is not a career. Most that do it do it because its one of the few things they can do.
One cannot expect a 30 yr old guy with a family to do it. Most start young and either rise up with the company or go on to bigger and better things.

My next door neighbors foreman makes $80k a yr. He,s also married , knows how to do hardscaping , irrigation , can sell jobs , runs equitment including loaders for snow removal and runs both landscape install crews in summer and snow crews in winter.

AI Inc
10-16-2011, 04:17 PM
You're correct. But the right uses those people as examples for the rich while the left is talking about wall St con men
Posted via Mobile Device

Problem is you guys love talking about billionaires. As Ive said in the past tax em at 90% for all I care . Problem is there is only like 1700 of them. They all have bucu bucks and would probably retire if ya did , why not? They are already loaded, hell I would.
So nect on the list are millionaires. Well whos a millionaire? Around here anybody who has been in their home for more then 12 yrs and has a 401K is a millionaire. With the exception of the inner cities , there is one on every street in every town ,town after town. These are the people supporting luxury industries. Like it of not , we are a luxury industry.

AI Inc
10-16-2011, 04:42 PM
When I had my bucket truck I had an electrician working for me 2 days a week changing parking light bulbs and ballasts. He was paid $30 an hour. I also could bill him and the truck out at $110 an hour.

But there was no way in the world I could put him on a mowing crew.

But he worked for the same landscape company as the $13 an hour guys.
Posted via Mobile Device

Anyone who trys to earn a living doing nothing but cutting is batshat crazy. And your correct, an employee cannot grow with a company that only cuts.

Only way to make money just cutting is either be a solo working for cash with a wife with a real job, or run 12-15 crews and be happy to make 304$ per lawn per week but make sure your cutting 1800 lawns a week.

Kinda like this guy here in town. All these plow trucks pull cutting trailers , and he still knows he needs to be full service.

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 06:59 PM
Somehow I think under this we agree more than disagree.

Everything in the country needs reform from taxes on billionaires to welfare.

Most points on all sides have merit.

There are way too many generalizations being thrown out that don't hold water.

Years ago I would have agreed with many.

Years ago if you lingered on unemployment you were lazy.
Years ago there were plenty of jobs.
Years ago if you lost your house it was because you were stupid or lazy.

Years ago taxes were higher and millionaires still made millions. It wasn't a big deal.

Years ago if you were on welfare more than a short period of time you were a lazy moocher.

I believe all of that.

I believe all of those people still exist and are still lazy moochers sucking off the system today.


What changed though is millions and millions of new people on these programs and that have hit these bad times that I don't believe are 100% because they are lazy or stupid.

There has been a shift in this country that is favoring a small group of people. Nobody can deny that.

Nobody wants to tax people into oblivion or at least I don't.

But like it or not we are a somewhat collective society. And you can't sustain a country when only a small number of people have so much power and control.

There needs to be a complete reform in this country. Some regulation, some deregulation, some increased taxes, some tax credits, some spending cuts, some spending increases.

There is no single answer. And I agree that just taxing the piss out of rich people wont do it.

The answer is to limit the corporate interest in elections. To change the election system so it doesn't demand corruption to get elected. And to better regulate the benefits that elected officials and their families can accept which would sway their votes.
Posted via Mobile Device

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 07:01 PM
And if we had good jobs in this country. Real jobs. Nobody would give a rats tail about Mexicans.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kelly's Landscaping
10-16-2011, 09:12 PM
S
The answer is to limit the corporate interest in elections. To change the election system so it doesn't demand corruption to get elected. And to better regulate the benefits that elected officials and their families can accept which would sway their votes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Drop that whole argument it is free speech and the supreme court has ruled on that. And unless we are going to remove tax free status from unions that allow multimillion dollar lib corporations to contribute 90 cents of each dollar in to democrat hands then the rest of us need those other corporations to speak for us since your side does not!

The system is broken because half pay nothing yet still get to vote and still demand more. You think billionaires have power please you said it yourself there's 1700 of them. Acorn had what about 1000 fake votes for every one of them no that's real power. Hate to say it but Cain is looking real good at least he increases the people paying taxes and like it or not every one agrees that's needed until they find out they are on the list.

As for your collective society it won't last 300 idiots living in filth in a park doesn't come close to the 10s of millions in the tea party and we will be rolling back years of bad policy's very soon.


"Years ago taxes were higher and millionaires still made millions. It wasn't a big deal." You don't really believe this crap do you its been disproved over and over yea the rates were high but the loop holes make the ones today seem non existent unless your a wealthy democrat with your own foundation and can claim anything as a deduction on your taxes this year as long as some day in the future you plan to do the donation. Before 86 you could deduct your credit card interest for crying out loud.

You speak of special interest but your Pres caters to them what do you think his so called latest stimulus / renamed jobs bill is or does. Certain groups are given favorable treatment for acting a certain way and then when things go bad a few years from now we would all ***** at them for doing what we wanted. That's the system we give wind and solar and other lib pet projects 10-25 times the subsidies we do for the same amount of energy we get from coal and oil. Yet nothing is said about that no instead we cry how greedy oil company's are yet they don't have sweetheart deals that put their investors above the us tax payers but solar does as we just learned.

My points on unemployment have remained unchallenged no one will argue that they should not be required to prove they are looking yet in my state they aren't required.

No one has argued that there isn't fraud and abuse but they have argued we should ignore it because I am quote ignorant of how hard it is. I bring up a guy that got fired with cause which should prevent him from collecting he didn't get laid off. Yet that doesn't seem to matter any more you steal from your boss you should be allowed to collect on him how else will you have money to pay for your lawyer. The system is upside down and you can blame years of attacking traditional values for that.

PROCUT1
10-16-2011, 09:20 PM
Do you really believe the corporations are speaking for you? Do you really think youd be allowed to even cut the grass at their club let alone join?

Next you're going to say with that opinion that you don't even know who Limbaugh orielly or hannity are.
Posted via Mobile Device

GreenI.A.
10-17-2011, 06:11 PM
i'm adding to the pool of enemployed. Told my guys this afternoon that they will be laid off for the season in two weeks, when all my contracts are done. I'll keep two guys on but only part time, maybe a half day a week, unless I need them more. They'll collect the dfference.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-17-2011, 09:48 PM
Do you really believe the corporations are speaking for you? Do you really think youd be allowed to even cut the grass at their club let alone join?

Next you're going to say with that opinion that you don't even know who Limbaugh orielly or hannity are.
Posted via Mobile Device

Join?? is that what your issue is sitting at the cool kids table I am sorry you feel you were abused. I couldn't care less about joining anything or being allowed to cut a clubs grass. But are they speaking for me in a sense yes they speak for the individual that would like to be all he can be. Do I want to join a corporation no but I would like the right to grow mine. And if its a choice of Michael Moore and losers like him or people living their dreams and succeeding no matter what the left throws in front of them I'll pick freedom and the business man any day of the week. As for Limbaugh perhaps one day you will open your mind and here the other side but till then your just another cynic who thinks he knows what best for everyone. You are a Dem but an amusing one at that you claim Obama is one of ours :laugh::laugh::laugh: I didn't vote for him you cant say that. I never thought he would be any good but you can't say that either.

PROCUT1
10-17-2011, 09:55 PM
I can say both of those. Once Hillary was out I stayed home.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kelly's Landscaping
10-17-2011, 10:04 PM
I can say both of those. Once Hillary was out I stayed home.
Posted via Mobile Device

And shes not in the administration now news to me. Same thing just a different pant suit.

sdk1959
10-17-2011, 10:34 PM
Join?? is that what your issue is sitting at the cool kids table I am sorry you feel you were abused. I couldn't care less about joining anything or being allowed to cut a clubs grass. But are they speaking for me in a sense yes they speak for the individual that would like to be all he can be. Do I want to join a corporation no but I would like the right to grow mine. And if its a choice of Michael Moore and losers like him or people living their dreams and succeeding no matter what the left throws in front of them I'll pick freedom and the business man any day of the week. As for Limbaugh perhaps one day you will open your mind and here the other side but till then your just another cynic who thinks he knows what best for everyone. You are a Dem but an amusing one at that you claim Obama is one of ours :laugh::laugh::laugh: I didn't vote for him you cant say that. I never thought he would be any good but you can't say that either.

You need to go live in a Communist or Dictatorship country for a year. When the shoe is on the other foot and your no more important than yesterday's newspaper you will appreciate the freedoms here.

By your posts it seems your against free speech, for tax free corporations, against the right of labor to organize, off shoring American jobs, no regulations for safety whatsoever, and only workers pay taxes, to name but a few.

94gt331
10-17-2011, 10:53 PM
Im going to add to this great post because this thread issue boils at me everyday when i'm out working hard to scrape by and live the American Dream.
Do i discriminate against the unemployed? Yes I suppose most of the time.
To many people on unemployment are just plain lazy and realized that it's easier to sit on there butts and get free money.
I think we as a Society get taxed higher and have more struggles for succeding in life than taking the easy way out and collecting unemployment, food stamps, heating and utilities assist, section 8 housing etc.
I think it's definately harder trying to be a good American citizen and working for a living and supporting themselves and there families.

Yes some people are good people that lose there jobs and need help from the american people for a while, that's fine those goverement benefits should be available for alittle while. But people are there own cause for there destruction. Our society lives on credit and they strap themselves with unessesary expenses that makes it impossible to live on $10hr.
If you really look around us in day to day life and see how many american people rely on everyone else to bail them out of all the struggles of life it's sickenig. People either rely on the government, or there mom or dad to bail them out of there bills etc.
I know it's hard to live on $10hr but that is no excuse for not even trying.
I started my buisness right out of high school making $8hr washing dishes and i moved up to making good enough money in landscaping to have a decent life. I lived on my own paying rent and tons of bills while building a buisness that has over $200,000 invested in equiptment and shop etc, And it's diifinately hard when your not making much money, but i wasn't a pussy like most unemployed people sucking the life out of the government.

If you only make $10hr working get a second job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's my story and i think anyone can succed in life with hard work and old school values that us modern society don't have. If you look back to our grandfathers they think where pathetic. Our grandfathers were working all the time and were fighting in wars, and they knew how to work without being bailed out by everyone to pay there bills. God bless America!:usflag:

CL&T
10-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Our society lives on credit and they strap themselves with unessesary expenses that makes it impossible to live on $10hr.

Unnecessary expenses like rent, a car, fuel, clothing and food? Work 20 hours a day? Where do you live in China? I like to think Americans would like to live better than in a third world country.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-18-2011, 12:10 AM
By your posts it seems your against free speech, for tax free corporations, against the right of labor to organize, off shoring American jobs, no regulations for safety whatsoever, and only workers pay taxes, to name but a few.

Where to begin

I'm for your right to embarrass yourself with these poorly thought out comments so No I am for free speech just as long as I get it too.

Tax free corporations never said that but 10% would be a far better number then we have now and we would have millions more employed. So maybe I am not pro low taxes as much as your pro unemployment or you'd be screaming for them to lower the rates.

Against the right of labor to organize well long ago I was forced to join unions 3 times and yes I am for the abolishment of them totally.

Shipping jobs off shore that's your view point not mine if we cut the tax and regulation burden the jobs would not be leaving but instead coming here.

No regulations that's not something I am for but no more regulations made by anyone other then the legislators them selves your damm right I am for that let them do their own dirty work.

Workers pay taxes only that sounds like a good idea since they risk nothing and it is the entrepreneur that takes the real risks so it is he who deserves the breaks not the other way around. If you insist on progressive tax rates then the ones who should get the credits and lowest rates are the ones that do the most for the country and I'm not talking about the rich I'm talking about the ones running business they own. I have no problem with you socking it to the country club libs that inherited their wealth.

sdk1959
10-18-2011, 12:36 AM
Where to begin

Workers pay taxes only that sounds like a good idea since they risk nothing and it is the entrepreneur that takes the real risks so it is he who deserves the breaks not the other way around. If you insist on progressive tax rates then the ones who should get the credits and lowest rates are the ones that do the most for the country and I'm not talking about the rich I'm talking about the ones running business they own. I have no problem with you socking it to the country club libs that inherited their wealth.

Not everybody wants to own a business, the risk, the uncertainty, the start-up costs, long hours & no guarantee it will show a profit. Most people would rather have a good job.

As far as tax breaks there are a ton of deductions plus any accountant that has your business showing a profit in it's first 3 years should be fired.

No one puts a gun to your head to go out and start a business, you and you alone take the risks, nobody forced it upon you which is no different than someone taking a risk & getting 5-6 figures in debt going to college to qualify for a good paying job. Both use and have access to what government provides, both take risks, both should pay taxes- period.

94gt331
10-18-2011, 10:09 PM
Buisiness owners do take risks for everyone, and there butts are on the line for that, i do think buisiness owners should have aliitle more help on tax's and worker's comp fees because we create the jobs for everyone. People on welfare don't pay any damn tax's, and they allways get a nice refund at the end of the year for all the kids the have, plus food stamps how is that fair to buisiness owners and the middle class. I think everyone across the board should all have to pay a flat tax on there earings period. I think buisiness owners would create more jobs that way.:usflag:

CL&T
10-18-2011, 11:22 PM
Buisiness owners do take risks for everyone, and there butts are on the line for that, i do think buisiness owners should have aliitle more help on tax's and worker's comp fees because we create the jobs for everyone.

That's the same old tired logic behind "trickle down economics". Give businesses a break and they will pass it on to their employees and/or create jobs. It's absolute BS and part of the reason we are in a depression today. Businesses didn't invest that money in employees and jobs, they gave it to their CEOs, top management and shareholders.

PROCUT1
10-18-2011, 11:36 PM
That's the same old tired logic behind "trickle down economics". Give businesses a break and they will pass it on to their employees and/or create jobs. It's absolute BS and part of the reason we are in a depression today. Businesses didn't invest that money in employees and jobs, they gave it to their CEOs, top management and shareholders.

They still dont get it.

12 years of tax cuts. No jobs.

Their answer

Cut taxes

sdk1959
10-19-2011, 12:30 AM
Buisiness owners do take risks for everyone, and there butts are on the line for that, i do think buisiness owners should have aliitle more help on tax's and worker's comp fees because we create the jobs for everyone. People on welfare don't pay any damn tax's, and they allways get a nice refund at the end of the year for all the kids the have, plus food stamps how is that fair to buisiness owners and the middle class. I think everyone across the board should all have to pay a flat tax on there earings period. I think buisiness owners would create more jobs that way.:usflag:

How about GE buddy. Thanks to the lobbyists on their payroll they made billions $$ in 2010 yet paid no US federal tax PLUS got millions $$ back and outsource every job they possible can overseas. Because that's how they did it, show a loss with their US operations here yet made billions$$ overseas. Result= No US tax bill and costing thousands of American jobs. Nice, huh? Who they pay taxes to- foreign governments. That will really help us pare down the US deficit.:hammerhead: See link below. Man, GE really helped the American economy and the middle class.:rolleyes:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/

Please educate yourself about welfare too. See link below written by someone who works in that field unlike you who does not. He knows about welfare- YOU DON'T. You can still believe your own lies about welfare after reading the article, makes no difference to the rest of us.

http://www.epinions.com/content_2610274436

AI Inc
10-19-2011, 06:30 AM
How about GE buddy. Thanks to the lobbyists on their payroll they made billions $$ in 2010 yet paid no US federal tax PLUS got millions $$ back and outsource every job they possible can overseas. Because that's how they did it, show a loss with their US operations here yet made billions$$ overseas. Result= No US tax bill and costing thousands of American jobs. Nice, huh? Who they pay taxes to- foreign governments. That will really help us pare down the US deficit.:hammerhead: See link below. Man, GE really helped the American economy and the middle class.:rolleyes:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/16/news/companies/ge_7000_tax_returns/

Please educate yourself about welfare too. See link below written by someone who works in that field unlike you who does not. He knows about welfare- YOU DON'T. You can still believe your own lies about welfare after reading the article, makes no difference to the rest of us.

http://www.epinions.com/content_2610274436

How much did you pay the state of ct in income taxes last yr?

AI Inc
10-19-2011, 06:33 AM
They still dont get it.

12 years of tax cuts. No jobs.

Their answer

Cut taxes

All of Bushes tax cuts should be repealed, all of them. You gentleman ready for that?

Kelly's Landscaping
10-19-2011, 01:27 PM
Why would you bring up GE they own NBC they are invested up to their eye balls in green energy they are the poster child for a business that supports democrats. They are not an example of what is right with corporations they and an example of what happens when the libs pick winners and award them for acting as they do.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-19-2011, 01:32 PM
All of Bushes tax cuts should be repealed, all of them. You gentleman ready for that?

No problem at all with that I want a total overhaul and that will mean even bigger cuts. And while I like you boy Ron Paul he is a libertarian and is never going to win. In fact the real race will be between Newt and Cain as there is no way we nominate a Rhino this year so Mitt is going to lose again. As for income taxes in CT I do not know off hand they gave all that back last year but they didn't give back the 15000 I sent them for sales tax or the 6000 I spent in sales tax nor did my town give back the 10000 in property tax and come to think of it the 2000 in fees and registrations the state kept too.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-19-2011, 01:38 PM
They still dont get it.

12 years of tax cuts. No jobs.

Their answer

Cut taxes

The cuts were less then half the increases they got from your Clinton's so they were not enough. As for no jobs we had 7 million more of them under Bush then we do under Obama so its not a tax issue its a confidence issue and Hilary's boss has none. You may not have had money in the stock market at the end of Clinton I did and his economy had collapsed so stop the bs about how peachy it was when we paid more. If it had been great Gore would have won but he lost and thank god for that.

AI Inc
10-19-2011, 05:19 PM
No problem at all with that I want a total overhaul and that will mean even bigger cuts. And while I like you boy Ron Paul he is a libertarian and is never going to win. In fact the real race will be between Newt and Cain as there is no way we nominate a Rhino this year so Mitt is going to lose again. As for income taxes in CT I do not know off hand they gave all that back last year but they didn't give back the 15000 I sent them for sales tax or the 6000 I spent in sales tax nor did my town give back the 10000 in property tax and come to think of it the 2000 in fees and registrations the state kept too.

As far as income tax to CT , I was asking SDK if he paid any. Ya see I didnt pay CT any income tax because I didnt make any income in CT. Same as GE didnt pay US income tax because they didnt have an income here.

By the time the 4th primary takes place Cain will just be a memory, refered to as " remember that black dude that dropped out" No one has to sink him, his $9.99 plan aint worth much more.

Hate to say it , but it will be Romney , much to my dismay.
Lets face it , at this point Obama not winning is all that matters.

cpllawncare
10-19-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm just not sure it makes a difference anymore, the economy is just too far gone for any one man to make a real difference, kinda like when your just too deep in and have no choice but to file bankruptcy and start over. We need to just start over, I know that's not realistic but it's what needs to happen.

CL&T
10-19-2011, 07:47 PM
We need to just start over, I know that's not realistic but it's what needs to happen.

I totally agree. We need to go back to a time when this country was #1 in the world and adopt what we did then. You guys can talk all you want about your parties and candidates but each and every one is a loser. There needs to be a line on the ballot that says "none of the above". If it gets the majority of votes everybody gets thrown out and we start over. As it is now, even if you are an informed voter you get drowned out by the brain dead who vote the party line of their favorite party like it was a sports team. The internet, buffoon talk show hosts and religious leaders preaching from the pulput about politics have way too much influence on voters. Think about how, back when this country was successful there wasn't any internet. We didn't have any talk radio jerks on their party's payroll brainwashing voters and religion wasn't influencing voters like it is today.

sdk1959
10-19-2011, 08:04 PM
Why would you bring up GE they own NBC they are invested up to their eye balls in green energy they are the poster child for a business that supports democrats. They are not an example of what is right with corporations they and an example of what happens when the libs pick winners and award them for acting as they do.

I don't care if GE owns NBC or supports green energy bottom line which you ignore and miss is THEY PAY NO U.S. TAXES, YET MADE BILLIONS$ AND PAID TAXES TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS. So before you start calling responsible people bums THAT PAID TAXES FOR THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT AND CHOOSE TO GET A SUITABLE JOB IN THEIR FIELD WHICH IS THEIR RIGHT AND HOW UC WAS INTENDED. BECAUSE A PERSON THAT MAKES $75000 A YEAR PAYS 3 TIMES INTO UC WHAT A PERSON THAT MAKES $25000 SO YES HE/SHE DESERVES AND HAS PAID THE TAXES INTO UC TO FIND A COMPARABLE JOB AT A COMPARABLE WAGE. JUST BECAUSE YOU LACK THE EDUCATION AND JOB SKILLS & MAY ONLY BE QUALIFY FOR A LOW PAYING JOB ANYONE CAN GET DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD.

GE and other corporations have done absolutely nothing for the American economy & government. They outsource every job they can overseas which erodes the tax base plus they themselves pay no taxes so little wonder we have a deficit and the rest of us must pay more taxes.

A poor person never put someone out of a job, but all corporations like GE combined have cost this country millions of jobs.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-19-2011, 08:20 PM
I don't care if GE owns NBC or supports green energy bottom line which you ignore and miss is THEY PAY NO U.S. TAXES, YET MADE BILLIONS$ AND PAID TAXES TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS. So before you start calling responsible people bums THAT PAID TAXES FOR THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT AND CHOOSE TO GET A SUITABLE JOB IN THEIR FIELD WHICH IS THEIR RIGHT AND HOW UC WAS INTENDED. BECAUSE A PERSON THAT MAKES $75000 A YEAR PAYS 3 TIMES INTO UC WHAT A PERSON THAT MAKES $25000 SO YES HE/SHE DESERVES AND HAS PAID THE TAXES INTO UC TO FIND A COMPARABLE JOB AT A COMPARABLE WAGE. JUST BECAUSE YOU LACK THE EDUCATION AND JOB SKILLS & MAY ONLY BE QUALIFY FOR A LOW PAYING JOB ANYONE CAN GET DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD.

GE and other corporations have done absolutely nothing for the American economy & government. They outsource every job they can overseas which erodes the tax base plus they themselves pay no taxes so little wonder we have a deficit and the rest of us must pay more taxes.

A poor person never put someone out of a job, but all corporations like GE combined have cost this country millions of jobs.

Stop the all cap screaming at me you sound like a little b i t c h when you do that. It was your example don't get mad at me cause you didn't put any thought into it before you choose to use it. And while you enjoy your pathetic attempts to mock me with claims I can not get a higher paying job why not go to the lawn maintenance section and take a look at my 60000 dollar 2011 ram 4500 I must of bought with second job no one including me knows about. You hijacked this thread along time ago you claim I am against free speech then try to shout me down in all caps. You seem to want to make this personal so why not come over some day and show me that unemployment check you collect that I'm suppose to respect. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

cpllawncare
10-19-2011, 08:47 PM
I totally agree. We need to go back to a time when this country was #1 in the world and adopt what we did then. You guys can talk all you want about your parties and candidates but each and every one is a loser. There needs to be a line on the ballot that says "none of the above". If it gets the majority of votes everybody gets thrown out and we start over. As it is now, even if you are an informed voter you get drowned out by the brain dead who vote the party line of their favorite party like it was a sports team. The internet, buffoon talk show hosts and religious leaders preaching from the pulput about politics have way too much influence on voters. Think about how, back when this country was successful there wasn't any internet. We didn't have any talk radio jerks on their party's payroll brainwashing voters and religion wasn't influencing voters like it is today.

We were #1 before all this world economy nonsense took over, and before Nafta was put in place, even Reagan said it was going to be the downfall of this country.

sdk1959
10-19-2011, 09:25 PM
Stop the all cap screaming at me you sound like a little b i t c h when you do that. It was your example don't get mad at me cause you didn't put any thought into it before you choose to use it. And while you enjoy your pathetic attempts to mock me with claims I can not get a higher paying job why not go to the lawn maintenance section and take a look at my 60000 dollar 2011 ram 4500 I must of bought with second job no one including me knows about. You hijacked this thread along time ago you claim I am against free speech then try to shout me down in all caps. You seem to want to make this personal so why not come over some day and show me that unemployment check you collect that I'm suppose to respect. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

First off I started the thread, not hi-jacked it, I put some things in caps to stress a point- not screaming, not personal.

I've haven't collected since 2003 and even then less than 9 months, but if someone told me then I was a bum because I didn't forfeit my UC that I paid taxes for and just run out take any full-time job at a fraction of my former pay they would find themselves waking up on the ground.To me that is no different than telling your next door neighbor that you think he is a insurance cheat because he filed a claim with HIS insurance company that HE paid policy premiums into for years when a tree fell on his roof and he had it repaired.

Every single example someone has posted on here about someone bumming on unemployment has been someone irresponsible with little or no bills to pay or subsidized by their parents or spouses. Responsible people with real bills, rent, mortgage, car payment, student loans to pay don't bum on unemployment- they simple can't afford to do that or run out and take a low paying job. They have to get a comparable job.

cpllawncare
10-19-2011, 09:56 PM
Every single example someone has posted on here about someone bumming on unemployment has been someone irresponsible with little or no bills to pay or subsidized by their parents or spouses. Responsible people with real bills, rent, mortgage, car payment, student loans to pay don't bum on unemployment- they simple can't afford to do that or run out and take a low paying job. They have to get a comparable job.

That's the problem all the "Comparable jobs" have disapeared

jcsites
10-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Discrimination against Unemployed should stop. How can we encourage those people to find a job if we also looking down on them..:cool2:

Kelly's Landscaping
10-20-2011, 12:24 AM
Shame on me for not doing this sooner took me less then a min to find the rates and would of saved 16 pages of this argument since you have no case.

"State Unemployment Insurance (SUI):

Wage base is $8,000

Rates range from 2.677% to 10.8236% for 2011
New employers use 3.703% except construction employers who pay 10.2626%.
Additional contributions tax of 0.65% in effect for 2011.

Employee rate -.08% for 2011 is withheld from gross wages. This tax is to be remitted to the Department with the employer's quarterly unemployment tax.

There are many details involved in calculating an employer rate. The numbers shown here are meant to be an overview. For complete details on Unemployment insurance in Pennsylvania, click here."

My fault I guess I hate having to do others research but your premiss was you paid so much so your entitled. Well for 2011 in PA the employee pays a whole .08% wow that's impressive but the employers can pay up to 10.2626%. So let me get this straight employee makes 1000 dollars the employer pays 102.63 dollars the employee pays 80 cents and you want a freaking metal for that.

I apologize for not realizing it was your thread but in fairness you didn't show your true colors till later so the writing styles were different.

But for a 20-30 dollar a year contribution you think the employees are entitled to 99 weeks or more at up to 500 dollars a week. And it never clicks while we are broke? I got a better idea the employer gives you the extra 10.2626% as part of your pay and if you find your self out of a job tough find or make another one problem solved. And I have had many jobs and one thing always happened I always was made into a manager or foreman. Education is great and all but that doesn't make you management that's a trait you are either born with or your not same with being an owner of a company. Iv been in business 9 years and had employees since day one and they have never gone with out a pay check once. So just maybe I have a few more skills then making lawns look great and but probably why I have over 190 lawns.

sdk1959
10-20-2011, 07:24 AM
First off a employer should pay more as they are in control of their business and the people they hire and layoff, the employee is still entitled. 2nd off a employee may have been paying the tax for decades and not collected, while he might have just started a new job with a new employer and got layed off.

They have UC because a employer by law does not need to give you notice or severance pay when you are laid off or fired. Your income stops immediately, unlike a business owner who can see he is losing business and make changes or go out and get a job himself if need be.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-20-2011, 09:17 PM
Lets change it so they have to pay it back and we can then both agree to allow the safety net to continue. Even if he did work decades were still talking 300-500 dollars contribution hardly justification for getting 50,000 to sit around. Any ways I am bored with this but 24 hours later I'm still smiling at the .08% rate LOL only reason to even have that was so guys like you can feel entitled. I am curious did you even know what the rate was and now that you do did you ever suspect it was that insignificant.

sdk1959
10-20-2011, 09:48 PM
Lets change it so they have to pay it back and we can then both agree to allow the safety net to continue. Even if he did work decades were still talking 300-500 dollars contribution hardly justification for getting 50,000 to sit around. Any ways I am bored with this but 24 hours later I'm still smiling at the .08% rate LOL only reason to even have that was so guys like you can feel entitled. I am curious did you even know what the rate was and now that you do did you ever suspect it was that insignificant.

I don't believe the employee should pay it back but if the business has little or no layoffs in a set time period of so many years the state government should refund the business owner the taxes paid for that time period.

As far as the rates of tax in some states all of the UC tax is paid by the employer but it still makes no difference. The person worked, the tax was collected, the person was laid off, now he collects till he gets another job or it runs out. Yes there are bums out there that abuse UC but as I stated in a earlier post they are irresponsible people with no bills or are subsidized by their parents or a spouse , also some people close to retirement will coast on into retirement on UC.

Everybody pays taxes towards welfare and yet no one needs to have worked to collect it like UC- anyone can collect welfare money + insurance benefits. There was talk of having able bodied welfare recipients working for the state for their welfare benefits but I guess it would put too many state employees out of a job.:cry:

Taxes will always be part of doing business, no way around it, just have to factor it in when doing business.

AI Inc
10-21-2011, 07:25 AM
Actualy welfare up here has to be paid back. UI dosnt , you get 26 weeks then see ya. There is no federal extension up here.

GreenI.A.
10-21-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't believe the employee should pay it back but if the business has little or no layoffs in a set time period of so many years the state government should refund the business owner the taxes paid for that time period.

.

The whole thing is unemployment is an INSURANCE, your logic would be no different than me calling my GL insurance company and asking for my premium back because i had no claims this year, cant be done as my premiums pay for the claims made by other companies. The difference being though that UI does not collect nearly enough from employers so they must be subsidized by the gov. What I would liked changed is different rates depending on your companies history with layoffs. Why should a company with hundreds of employees with no history of layoffs be paying the same rate as a landscaper who lays off half his staff for 4 months out of the year. The rates we pay should be looked at like an insurance company evaluates us, look at what part of the country we are in, industry, etc and set a base rate we have to pay off of the likely hood we will do layoffs. Then just like insurance, if your company has claims then your next years rate would be higher. The gov and our taxes would still have to greatly subsidize UI, butt at least companies who don't layoff will not be paying the same as those who do. And yes this is coming from someone who does layoff employees

sdk1959
10-21-2011, 04:57 PM
The whole thing is unemployment is an INSURANCE, your logic would be no different than me calling my GL insurance company and asking for my premium back because i had no claims this year, cant be done as my premiums pay for the claims made by other companies. The difference being though that UI does not collect nearly enough from employers so they must be subsidized by the gov. What I would liked changed is different rates depending on your companies history with layoffs. Why should a company with hundreds of employees with no history of layoffs be paying the same rate as a landscaper who lays off half his staff for 4 months out of the year. The rates we pay should be looked at like an insurance company evaluates us, look at what part of the country we are in, industry, etc and set a base rate we have to pay off of the likely hood we will do layoffs. Then just like insurance, if your company has claims then your next years rate would be higher. The gov and our taxes would still have to greatly subsidize UI, butt at least companies who don't layoff will not be paying the same as those who do. And yes this is coming from someone who does layoff employees

I agree it's insurance and the rates should be based on the company's layoff history. What I was suggesting with the refund is similar to what AllState does with their auto insurance policy holders and that is give a partial premium kickback to policy holders that don't have a claim or ticket during the year.

GreenI.A.
10-22-2011, 09:02 PM
I actually grabed lunch at Subway yesterday, they had a sign saying "Now Hiring, Recent work history required"

AI Inc
10-23-2011, 06:39 AM
Lotta places in eastern Mass are hiring. Thing is , no one wants to work for what they see as 3$ an hr( the differance between what UI pays em and the job.)

sdk1959
10-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Lotta places in eastern Mass are hiring. Thing is , no one wants to work for what they see as 3$ an hr( the differance between what UI pays em and the job.)

Yeah, those damn bums that they or their parents spent thousands of $$ on a college education working 2 jobs going through 4 or more years of college getting good grades and have bills like mortgages, car loans, student loans, health insurance, maybe a family to support, that just started collecting UI and not taking jobs like this. (Although when their UI runs out they may have to.) I mean how dare they want to try to keep their house, pay their bills and student,car loans, have health insurance, provide for their family by wasting time looking for & applying for comparable jobs in their field.:rolleyes:

They should run out and take these low paying jobs. And let the real bums with no real bills that still live at home with their parents or have a spouse that supports them sit home and collect UI. Then that would leave examples for everyone still working to point their finger & say "look I know someone, he sits home & collects without looking for a job. Why everybody on UI must do that.":mad:

AI Inc
10-23-2011, 09:32 AM
Well if they want to keep their houses they can getting a job paying $3 an hr more then UI maxes out at. And not all " just started collecting" some are hoping for Obammy to extend to 3 yrs. Then they will go on disability.

AI Inc
10-23-2011, 09:34 AM
Another month of work here and Ill start getting my free money, after all ,Im entitled to it.

sdk1959
10-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Well if they want to keep their houses they can getting a job paying $3 an hr more then UI maxes out at. And not all " just started collecting" some are hoping for Obammy to extend to 3 yrs. Then they will go on disability.

The bums with no bills staying home will go on welfare first. Long term Disability is not as easy to get on as you might think, although once someone is on it it is usually easier to stay on it. " Oh, my aching back Doc, it still hurts" :laugh:

cpllawncare
10-23-2011, 03:02 PM
Interesting take on the protesters in this country, Obama pulls all our boys home from Iraq, you think he senses he may need some help here at home?

CL&T
10-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Obama pulls all our boys home from Iraq, you think he senses he may need some help here at home?

Don't be stupid, that's merely an election year ploy. During his campaign he promised to do that within 90 days if he was elected, remember?

But I don't think that the situation is going to go away now that the ball is rolling. Too many people are fed up and desperate and tired of being oppressed. I can see that turning into civil unrest and bloodshed, maybe a revolution. This country cannot go on the way it is and unlike some third world countries, Americans are not afraid to fight for their rights.

I also don't think those in power will get much support from servicemen and women coming home when they can't find work either even after putting their life on the line for their country.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-23-2011, 07:11 PM
Yeah, those damn bums that they or their parents spent thousands of $$ on a college education working 2 jobs going through 4 or more years of college getting good grades and have bills like mortgages, car loans, student loans, health insurance, maybe a family to support, that just started collecting UI and not taking jobs like this. (Although when their UI runs out they may have to.) I mean how dare they want to try to keep their house, pay their bills and student,car loans, have health insurance, provide for their family by wasting time looking for & applying for comparable jobs in their field.:rolleyes:

They should run out and take these low paying jobs. And let the real bums with no real bills that still live at home with their parents or have a spouse that supports them sit home and collect UI. Then that would leave examples for everyone still working to point their finger & say "look I know someone, he sits home & collects without looking for a job. Why everybody on UI must do that.":mad:

Collage doesn't make one special it doesn't even make one smart. We pump out millions with degrees and the reason is many feel it is a short cut to success that if they do this little bit of homework and partying they can skip entry level jobs. Sorry doesn't work like that sometimes you may even have to accept taking a few steps back in the long road called life why do you insist we subsidize your delusions, and I do mean you, you clearly are crushed that any one thinks your a bum. Well I don't recall any post that said that but if the shoe fits then wear it. You are obsessed that the only bad apples live at home with mom and got bad grades in collage the rest are there for entitled. They were entitled to 6 months anything more they were not and you know that. Now either they should have to pay it back or work it off doing the glamorous jobs like litter removal or jury duty. Anything is better then allowing someone to exist for nothing it causes them some serious issues they never quite get over just look at yourself I and many others here are ashamed of you.

If you were smart you would let this thread die its not reflecting to well on you and your reasoning ability's. You start with how much you paid then I find its a whole 80 cents per 1000 dollars and you still demand a golden parachute if you should hit a bump in the road. You say crap like employers can see it coming but employees can not and there for employees who risk nothing other then their futures cause they opt not to be self employed are entitled to protection that's BS. The American dream is still there if you choose not to participate I have no sympathy for you.

cpllawncare
10-23-2011, 09:47 PM
You're confusing me here? It's wayyy after 90 days!

Don't be stupid, that's merely an election year ploy. During his campaign he promised to do that within 90 days if he was elected, remember?


This is exactly what I am talking about! More and more people are fed up with the way the country is being torn to shreds! So now you have a ton of people that are unemployed and nothing better to do than raise hell about it.

But I don't think that the situation is going to go away now that the ball is rolling. Too many people are fed up and desperate and tired of being oppressed. I can see that turning into civil unrest and bloodshed, maybe a revolution. This country cannot go on the way it is and unlike some third world countries, Americans are not afraid to fight for their rights.

sdk1959
10-23-2011, 10:58 PM
:Collage doesn't make one special it doesn't even make one smart. We pump out millions with degrees and the reason is many feel it is a short cut to success that if they do this little bit of homework and partying they can skip entry level jobs. Sorry doesn't work like that sometimes you may even have to accept taking a few steps back in the long road called life why do you insist we subsidize your delusions, and I do mean you, you clearly are crushed that any one thinks your a bum. Well I don't recall any post that said that but if the shoe fits then wear it. You are obsessed that the only bad apples live at home with mom and got bad grades in collage the rest are there for entitled. They were entitled to 6 months anything more they were not and you know that. Now either they should have to pay it back or work it off doing the glamorous jobs like litter removal or jury duty. Anything is better then allowing someone to exist for nothing it causes them some serious issues they never quite get over just look at yourself I and many others here are ashamed of you.

If you were smart you would let this thread die its not reflecting to well on you and your reasoning ability's. You start with how much you paid then I find its a whole 80 cents per 1000 dollars and you still demand a golden parachute if you should hit a bump in the road. You say crap like employers can see it coming but employees can not and there for employees who risk nothing other then their futures cause they opt not to be self employed are entitled to protection that's BS. The American dream is still there if you choose not to participate I have no sympathy for you.

So basically what your saying America should just dumb down & not go to college, let other countries get even further ahead of us in engineering, science, medicine ect. And if you were naive enough to go through 4 or more years of college you should be happy with a low-paying job working at a Subway making sandwiches. To hell with your education-right?

Again- you missed my point.

My example is people who already paid their dues, going to college, paying back student loans, did internships ( in case you didn't know, it's when a college student works for free at a company to gain work experience in their field of study) and then after that- entry level jobs. Wow- that's really some shortcut to success huh?:rolleyes:

Your take on the American dream is one dimensional- self-employment. Anyone who would rather get a education for a good job and work for a living is a bum. But it's theoretically impossible even if all American's wanted to be self-employed- somebody has to work for somebody else. The reverse is also true- a employee needs a employer.

And yes- a employer can see business sliding long before his employee can in most cases. Does the law require you to give notice or severance pay to a employee you lay off or fire -no. Hence UI.

cpllawncare
10-23-2011, 11:32 PM
SDK,

Your right on track, my friend! So I spent three years to get a college education, and have over 10 years experience in my chosen field, so I should just be forced to lose everything and start over because of nothing more than simple corporate greed! I don't care what the do nothings do, cause they will always be there and will always do nothing no matter what the situation, but it's the ones that have worked their tales off to have something and make something out of themselves and live a responsible lifestyle and get it all pulled out from under them that should have the loudest voice! I am also very aware of the fact that life doesn't always go as planned, and that's okay to. but this is on a massive scale not just a few people that had some bad luck, that's the difference.

CL&T
10-24-2011, 12:02 AM
You're confusing me here? It's wayyy after 90 days!

That's exactly my point! He promised it to get elected and when he got in never did anything about it. So now it's election time again and he's promising it again. Wonder what the excuse will be this time.

cpllawncare
10-24-2011, 12:10 AM
That's exactly my point! He promised it to get elected and when he got in never did anything about it. So now it's election time again and he's promising it again. Wonder what the excuse will be this time.

Gotcha! Point taken