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mx315
10-10-2011, 01:35 PM
I just took over a commercial property with a 2 wire Hunter ACC controller with errors for almost every decoder on the system. It's plugged into a GFI outdoor receptacle and it was tripped the first time I looked at it. I reset and tried to run the zones manually but the decoder errors started popping up. What should I be looking at first to start in the right direction?

greenmonster304
10-10-2011, 01:38 PM
A map of the decoder locations
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Leary
10-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Can you bypass the GFI?

mx315
10-10-2011, 03:26 PM
Not sure. May be able to direct wire it into the circuit. Do GFI's cause voltage problems with the ACC?

Mike Leary
10-10-2011, 03:32 PM
Not sure. May be able to direct wire it into the circuit. Do GFI's cause voltage problems with the ACC?

I don't know, exactly, but GFI circuits have been a huge problem for me, especially since I take it you're running double clocks off the same outlet? Providing clean power would be the first place I'd start.

Sprinkus
10-10-2011, 03:51 PM
What are the decoders errors?
Communications errors?
Over/underflow errors?

I have a copy of the troubleshooting guide for ACC decoders.
Send me a PM if you need it.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-10-2011, 03:54 PM
2 wire controllers doesn't mean 2 controllers Mike. (I know you know that but speed reading is contagious to your health.)

Knowing nothing about 2 wire I would TS this way.

Have a properly wired decoder valve that I can wire into the controller as an additional valve at the controller. If it has the error reading then I'd TS from the controller back. If it works okay then I'd TS from the controller out.

Mike Leary
10-10-2011, 04:12 PM
Yes, I read it too fast, I'd still check the primary.

BrandonV
10-10-2011, 05:54 PM
I just took over a commercial property with a 2 wire Hunter ACC controller with errors for almost every decoder on the system. It's plugged into a GFI outdoor receptacle and it was tripped the first time I looked at it. I reset and tried to run the zones manually but the decoder errors started popping up. What should I be looking at first to start in the right direction?

first thing to look for is grounding rods/plates. if that system took a hit it could be big $ especially if you don't know where the valves are :-(

Sprinkus
10-10-2011, 07:35 PM
I would ignore the GFI issue, for the time being, and figure out what the decoder errors are.
The GFI issue could be as simple as an outlet exposed to weather or a sprinkler.
Even a dead short on the wire path should not cause the GFI to trip as the ACC would recognize the fault and shut down the power to the two wire path(s).

I just worked on an ACC last week that was kicking out underflow alarms. Come to find out the master valve was not opening when the system came on, which in turn caused the underflow condition.

Mike Leary
10-10-2011, 07:54 PM
I would ignore the GFI issue, for the time being, and figure out what the decoder errors are.
The GFI issue could be as simple as an outlet exposed to weather or a sprinkler.

Geez, I don't know if I'd trust you to play the first bars of "Louie Louie" without making sure the primary is intact. :dizzy:

Kiril
10-10-2011, 09:46 PM
Can you bypass the GFI?


Daddy ..... why are you recommending doing something that is against code?

Mike Leary
10-10-2011, 09:55 PM
Daddy ..... why are you recommending doing something that is against code?

Geez, busted by sonny. O.K., then what I would do is have a LICENSED electrician do a test to check the draw on both the gfi and the circuit, then compare it to the demand of the two-wire system. Damn, your mom always said you should have been a lawyer.:hammerhead:

Kiril
10-10-2011, 10:04 PM
Geez, busted by sonny. O.K., then what I would do is have a LICENSED electrician do a test to check the draw on both the gfi and the circuit, then compare it to the demand of the two-wire system. Damn, your mom always said you should have been a lawyer.:hammerhead:

Mommy always taught me to cover Daddy's ass when he gets out of line. :waving:

SPEEDSKI
10-10-2011, 10:30 PM
The ACC is a great controller, but 2-Wire systems take some skill even with years of experience with conventional systems. The 2-wire path needs to solid with good connections everywhere. Some system will not run at all with one short or a bad decoder, so you are in for an education.

Take Sprinkus's advice and get the entire manual and read it. I would get an ICD programmer and you will even need the right clamp meter that will read milli-amps. The programmer makes things simple when it comes to the decoders.

The ACC also has a Faceplate update depending on what version you are using. You need to download the update from Hunter, connect your laptop to the Faceplate and upload the firmware.

As far as all the Faults, it is most likely wiring which could be simple or a nightmare for the inexperienced. It sounds to me like it maybe the power module, we had to replace a couple of this year.

Do the update first, then check the power module, then move to the wiring.

READ THE MANUAL!!! and make sure you understand how the system works, you do get the same 24 volt readings like you normally will get. Make sure the current value is correct a long with the inrush.

Good Luck

1idejim
10-11-2011, 08:29 AM
READ THE MANUAL!!! and make sure you understand how the system works, you do get the same 24 volt readings like you normally will get. Make sure the current value is correct a long with the inrush.

Good Lucki spoke to hunters rod waller about a ts manual that had some incorrect voltage information, ewing had the same issue which i brought to their attention. when reading a manual if something doesn't make sense call a rep and grill him for the correct data. good luck:)

Sprinkus
10-11-2011, 08:37 AM
you do get the same 24 volt readings like you normally will get


:confused:

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-11-2011, 10:17 AM
Just to answer a question I have.

If you disconnect the existing two wire and install a decoder directly or through a valve that you know to be functioning properly at the controller.

Is that possible?
If it is possible would that be a good way to determine if the problem is at the controller or outlet or if its out in the field wiring or decoders?

mx315
10-11-2011, 10:24 AM
I downloaded the manual and will check the error codes. I talked to the installer and he said they had power issues on that system from the very beginning. I'm going to check out the codes and see if they are voltage related.

Sprinkus
10-11-2011, 05:46 PM
Just to answer a question I have.

If you disconnect the existing two wire and install a decoder directly or through a valve that you know to be functioning properly at the controller.

Is that possible?
If it is possible would that be a good way to determine if the problem is at the controller or outlet or if its out in the field wiring or decoders?

Yup, you can disconnect the 2-wire and connect a decoder with a solenoid on it.
On the ACC you can check the 2-wire output module status lights to see if there is a problem with the 2-wire path and/or decoders.
There is no common on 2-wire as both wires carry voltage. Typically around 17 volts per side.

SPEEDSKI
10-11-2011, 08:59 PM
:confused:

Whoops....there I go with my mad writing skills. I meant "do not".

The Hunter tech dept. folks are pretty cool too. That is how we learned about the update. Their technology is solid and nothing like the good old MDC from RB. We did just install a LXD with 41 - 65 - 80 gpm zones on it and so far the new RB is impressive.

I still like the Hunter ACC and DUAL now that my techs have the ICD programmers. The install crews install all the valve with decoders wired in and make all splices to the wire path as they install. The service tech takes the as-built to each valve box, programs the station and tests the path. Makes things so easy on the installers.

Anyway, Sprinkus looks to be to Pro with this stuff, so only take my words with a grain of salt. I am busy doing operations and designs these days and only know what I know from my guys and when we run into problems I stick my nose in it enough to be dangerous.

Mike Leary
10-11-2011, 09:20 PM
I am busy doing operations and designs these days and only know what I know from my guys and when we run into problems I stick my nose in it enough to be dangerous.

The trouble with management.:cry:

Sprinkus
10-11-2011, 09:22 PM
I have yet to work with the LXD. The 4 program limitation is the biggest deterrent for me ever using one. 200 zones with only 4 programs?

And once again, to remind everyone, the 2-wire systems use clipping of the upper halves of the sine waves for communications to the decoders so the integrity of the wire path and splices are critical to having the system operate properly.

Hey, I can make sense after 5 beers and one jagermeister!! :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Mike Leary
10-11-2011, 09:41 PM
I have yet to work with the LXD. The 4 program limitation is the biggest deterrent for me ever using one. 200 zones with only 4 programs?

Even the twelve programs on the Rainmasters was was a challange, but, at least, they had independent station control, which I used a lot.

SPEEDSKI
10-11-2011, 09:47 PM
The LXD we dropped in is only going to be limited to no more than 50 stations. Wanted to try since we have a bunch of ESP LXM's on the site and we are going to give the IQ system a shot and connect them all.

So what is your guys Preference for large systems with the need for 8 programs or more? I like the TUCOR gear because I can get it around here. Beside RB and Hunter it is our only choice, but a good one.

Mike Leary
10-11-2011, 09:55 PM
Tucor has been around for a long time, and well tested, but require using their own remote. I'd look at Rainmaster's two wire system, since their remote will not only work their systems, but anyone else's.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
10-11-2011, 11:36 PM
I have yet to work with the LXD. The 4 program limitation is the biggest deterrent for me ever using one. 200 zones with only 4 programs?

And once again, to remind everyone, the 2-wire systems use clipping of the upper halves of the sine waves for communications to the decoders so the integrity of the wire path and splices are critical to having the system operate properly.

Hey, I can make sense after 5 beers and one jagermeister!! :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

I thought that they were using the zero point crossing of the AC Sine wave to transmit the data..... guess I learn something new every day!

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Tucor has been around for a long time, and well tested, but require using their own remote. I'd look at Rainmaster's two wire system, since their remote will not only work their systems, but anyone else's.

Ditto.....how you service after install is just as critical as the decisions made for the install.

Rain Master uses Baseline decoders fyi.

Cloud9Landscapes
10-13-2011, 12:56 AM
If there is more than one GFI on one circuit it will cause false tripping.

mx315
10-25-2011, 11:25 AM
The errors are for power problems. I found another GFI on that circuit outside the building. I talked to the guy that installed it and he said they have always had problems with the power on that controller. Anyone ever try a power conditioner or voltage regulator on the ACC? The bank owns the property now and are willing to spend much money on the repair.

Mike Leary
10-25-2011, 12:11 PM
After having many GFI-caused problems with clocks, the first thing I'd do on a cold call would be to track down the circuit the clock was on and what was on the same circuit. I had one that drove me nuts until I found a second GFI that some HO had installed shelves over at the other end of the house in the garage! :dizzy::hammerhead:

jvanvliet
10-25-2011, 07:35 PM
The errors are for power problems. I found another GFI on that circuit outside the building. I talked to the guy that installed it and he said they have always had problems with the power on that controller. Anyone ever try a power conditioner or voltage regulator on the ACC? The bank owns the property now and are willing to spend much money on the repair.

Can't say I'm as smart as these guys chiming in, especially Kiril, and I mean that; the guy is a genius.

It would seem to me your controller ought to be powered on it's own GFI protected circuit independent from anything else. I'm kinda surprised to hear its plugged into a common outlet. You may want to check your field wires for faults too, there are too many things that can cause a ground fault.

Somebody suggested running a "clean" power source to your controller, I'd start there after checking your ground wires for faults before installing power conditioners or voltage regulators on the ACC. If you don't get the same problem after providing an independent power source, you've solved you problem... too much stuff wired to the same GFI protected circuit.

I just had a similar problem wiring a pump installation today, the power to the pump was wired through a common GFI circuit that had ground faults elsewhere causing the breaker to keep tripping. I found an open slot on the panel, popped in a new GFI breaker, pulled wire and hooked the sumbeeatch up, no more problem.

Sprinkus
10-25-2011, 09:37 PM
The errors are for power problems.

So the alarm log says "Power Off" and "Power On"?
Are there any other alarms logged?
Did you write down the specific alarms with the corresponding time and date?
These are the things that tech support will probably ask you if you call them.

Mike Leary
10-25-2011, 09:44 PM
Can't say I'm as smart as these guys chiming in, especially Kiril, and I mean that; the guy is a genius.

It would seem to me your controller ought to be powered on it's own GFI protected circuit independent from anything else. I'm kinda surprised to hear its plugged into a common outlet. You may want to check your field wires for faults too, there are too many things that can cause a ground fault.

Somebody suggested running a "clean" power source to your controller, I'd start there after checking your ground wires for faults before installing power conditioners or voltage regulators on the ACC. If you don't get the same problem after providing an independent power source, you've solved you problem... too much stuff wired to the same GFI protected circuit.

I just had a similar problem wiring a pump installation today, the power to the pump was wired through a common GFI circuit that had ground faults elsewhere causing the breaker to keep tripping. I found an open slot on the panel, popped in a new GFI breaker, pulled wire and hooked the sumbeeatch up, no more problem.

Do you not read other posts, or just yammer on?

Kiril
10-25-2011, 10:51 PM
Since I'm a f'n genius :rolleyes:, I will say I think providing a dedicated circuit for anything short of a central control is a waste of money .... and that is coming from the guy with 9 circuits in his garage. I'll also add that there is nothing wrong with having multiple GFCI's on a circuit as long as you are using them as an independent GFCI and not part of a feed through circuit.

jvanvliet
10-26-2011, 06:52 AM
Do you not read other posts, or just yammer on?

Yammer on; initially he said the GFI circuit was tripped, that would indicate a ground fault on the other side of the controller. I was agreeing with you & cloud; check that first before tracking down the field wire and provide clean power as opposed to sending him on the usual and customary Irrigation Forum goose chase. This point was repeated by others, are they yammering on too?

Then he said: "The errors are for power problems. I found another GFI on that circuit outside the building. I talked to the guy that installed it and he said they have always had problems with the power on that controller".

His problem has a high probability of being a wiring issue on the other side of the controller as opposed to a field problem. Unlike the more civilized states, here in SFL, many GFI's are run as a parallel circuit protecting any number of outlets in various locations. E.G. my house has a single GFI breaker that protects bathrooms, kitchen and exterior outlets... that's one GFI breaker on an outlet in the garage; acceptable when they built it in 1987 and not uncommon for construction of that era.

He's in an old building and its probably been Gerry rigged unmercifully by various vageniuses in the previous years, especially owners. I'll bet he'll find more GFI's on that circuit, other outlets not properly grounded (as in to the common), reversed polarity, loose connections, etc.

Having an independent power source will eliminate the power issues, eliminate having to track them down and eliminate having to plug the unit into an outside outlet(WTF?) and on a cost vs. benefit basis will save the bank/owners thousands of dollars having to replace lost landscaping as a result of irrigation failure (remember we grow 365 days a year).

I'm guessing they probably have a Federal Pacific breaker panel; also very common here. Fed Pac is notorious for having issues and over the next couple of years, people will be forced to switch them out or loose their insurance.

Good for you Kiril, you have nine GFI circuits in your house, I only have one and this guy and I are not in California. As a matter of procedure, and because our installations are usually outside and not sheltered in a basement or a garage, we run wire for an independent circuit on a GFI protected breaker (or we can't warranty the work), not a waste of money at all unless it's city water. We don't work on many city supplied systems so... Kiril, you and pappie would have an anurism and a cerebral hemorage down here because it's not a textbook world.

Kiril
10-26-2011, 08:31 AM
Good for you Kiril, you have nine GFI circuits in your house, I only have one and this guy and I are not in California. As a matter of procedure, and because our installations are usually outside and not sheltered in a basement or a garage, we run wire for an independent circuit on a GFI protected breaker (or we can't warranty the work), not a waste of money at all unless it's city water. We don't work on many city supplied systems so... Kiril, you and pappie would have an anurism and a cerebral hemorage down here because it's not a textbook world.


I didn't say 9 GFCI circuits, I said 9 circuits. Some are GFCI protected, some are AFCI protected, some are neither. Beyond that, who cares what you do? How much power does an irrigation controller require? Is it anywhere close to 15 or 20 amps? Can you provide a good reason, with respect to load balancing, for running an independent circuit for you standard irrigation controller?

Why hasn't anyone considered the GFCI receptacle is simple bad? Wouldn't be the first time I have seen it happen.

Curious, how much will it cost to run a new circuit, assuming there is space in the panel? How do you do it ...... by strapping EMT to the building? :hammerhead:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
10-26-2011, 12:36 PM
Buy a small low cost UPS, connect the controller to it and call it a day.

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29

Mike Leary
10-26-2011, 01:08 PM
Buy a small low cost UPS, connect the controller to it and call it a day.

Damn good idea. As clocks get more and more sophisticated, I'm surprised they don't come with those do-dads factory-installed. :dizzy:

mx315
10-26-2011, 02:29 PM
Buy a small low cost UPS, connect the controller to it and call it a day.

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29

Even better idea than the voltage regulator and I have one sitting in my office I can use for testing.
thanks

jvanvliet
10-27-2011, 06:49 PM
I didn't say 9 GFCI circuits, I said 9 circuits. Some are GFCI protected, some are AFCI protected, some are neither. Beyond that, who cares what you do? How much power does an irrigation controller require? Is it anywhere close to 15 or 20 amps? Can you provide a good reason, with respect to load balancing, for running an independent circuit for you standard irrigation controller?

Why hasn't anyone considered the GFCI receptacle is simple bad? Wouldn't be the first time I have seen it happen.

Curious, how much will it cost to run a new circuit, assuming there is space in the panel? How do you do it ...... by strapping EMT to the building? :hammerhead:

Whatever, nine circuits in your garage, you're fabulous. I never said it made economic sense to to run a separate line for an HO controller, it also doesn't make sense to hook one up into a parallel GFI circuit (specially with the outlet outside, WTF?) where anything may trip the breaker like the original posters complaint, it may not be his receptacle.

The guy that suggested a UPS backup is onto something, maybe an Electro made in the USA not South Africa.

We will run a separate line for the pump, we will not hook up the controller to one leg of the 2 or 3 phase (you can figure the reason for that right?), we'll install a separate GFI circuit for the controller.

Current code in PBC is that all exterior electrical be on it's own GFI; that is to say each outlet, time clock, transformer, controller, etc. Used to be you could wire them parallel into one breaker. High load components must be on a AFCI (like the pump) So whether it makes sense in your mind or not is academic, law here says I must, it has nothing to do with load balancing.

I don't really give a hoot how you do things either, it's interesting to learn but as a matter of academic interest only. Frankly I don't give a phuk how you do it, I enjoy learning different methodologies a lot more than criticizing them.

FYI, the EMT is tacked to the buildings exterior and run up through the attic, we pull the cable through the attic to the top of the panel where there are knockouts (usually open) and pull it into the panel... that's how it works down here. It usually takes me less than 90 minutes, $65 - $110 for the breaker, cost of the wire, conduit, straps, tapcons, etc, do the math yourself.

If there is no room in the panel the HO has to get a sub panel... that's just the way it is, just like I'm legally obligated to install a rain sensor on systems that don't have one before I can work on them, that's just the way it is. The way stuff works in my universe doesn't have to work that way in yours & vica versa. :drinkup:

Kiril
10-27-2011, 07:00 PM
Whatever, nine circuits in your garage, you're fabulous. I never said it made economic sense to to run a separate line for an HO controller, it also doesn't make sense to hook one up into a parallel GFI circuit (specially with the outlet outside, WTF?) where anything may trip the breaker like the original posters complaint, it may not be his receptacle.

Who said anything about a breaker? He specifically said GFCI receptacle.

I just took over a commercial property with a 2 wire Hunter ACC controller with errors for almost every decoder on the system. It's plugged into a GFI outdoor receptacle and it was tripped the first time I looked at it. I reset and tried to run the zones manually but the decoder errors started popping up. What should I be looking at first to start in the right direction?

The guy that suggested a UPS backup is onto something, maybe an Electro made in the USA not South Africa.

UPS power supplies are meant for temporary power ... not long term.

We will run a separate line for the pump, we will not hook up the controller to one leg of the 2 or 3 phase (you can figure the reason for that right?), we'll install a separate GFI circuit for the controller.

What does this have to do with the OP's question?

Current code in PBC is that all exterior electrical be on it's own GFI;

What is the "PBC" .... perhaps you mean UBC? Don't you think the NEC might be the more appropriate authority to reference?

That said, I don't recall ever seeing anything about exterior receptacles required to be on a dedicated circuit. My place, which is wired per 2007 code, didn't require it.

High load components must be on a AFCI (like the pump) So whether it makes sense in your mind or not is academic, law here says I must, it has nothing to do with load balancing.

Then you need to read the law again bud, because AFCI's are required for a hell of a lot more than "high load components" .... that is if your state even begins to listen to the NEC.

I don't really give a hoot how you do things either, it's interesting to learn but as a matter of academic interest only. Frankly I don't give a phuk how you do it, I enjoy learning different methodologies a lot more than criticizing them.

Right back at ya. :laugh:

FYI, the EMT is tacked to the buildings exterior and run up through the attic, we pull the cable through the attic to the top of the panel where there are knockouts (usually open) and pull it into the panel... that's how it works down here. It usually takes me less than 90 minutes, $65 - $110 for the breaker, cost of the wire, conduit, straps, tapcons, etc, do the math yourself.

ROFL .... OK dude.

If there is no room in the panel the HO has to get a sub panel... that's just the way it is, just like I'm legally obligated to install a rain sensor on systems that don't have one before I can work on them, that's just the way it is. The way stuff works in my universe doesn't have to work that way in yours & vica versa. :drinkup:

A new sub panel just for an irrigation controller. :rolleyes: Roll on dude.

Mike Leary
10-27-2011, 07:05 PM
I don't really give a hoot how you do things either, it's interesting to learn but as a matter of academic interest only. Frankly I don't give a phuk how you do it, I enjoy learning different methodologies a lot more than criticizing them. The way stuff works in my universe doesn't have to work that way in yours & vica versa. :drinkup:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: East meets West. You guys deserve each other.

Kiril
10-27-2011, 07:29 PM
JVAN,

FL will be running under the 2009 IRC next year, currently they are under the 2007 IRC for residential. For your reference since you are clearly confused.

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_39_sec002_par002.htm

E3902.11 Arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection. All branch circuits that supply 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways and similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Exception:

1. Where a combination AFCI is installed at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit, the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and such outlet shall be wired with metal outlet and junction boxes and RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable, Type AC meeting the requirements of Section E3908.8.

2. AFCI protection is not required for a branch circuit supplying only a fire alarm system where the branch circuit is wired with metal outlet and junction boxes and RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable Type AC meeting the requirements of Section E3908.8.


and for your exterior receptacles.

E3902.3 Outdoor receptacles. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed outdoors shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.



The information you posted is the kind of talking out of your ass bullshiit inaccurate information that really chaps my ass. Get a clue jvan.

Wet_Boots
10-27-2011, 07:41 PM
Interesting that armored cable and metal boxes are making a comeback.

Mike Leary
10-27-2011, 08:39 PM
Interesting that armored cable and metal boxes are making a comeback.

Did they go away? :dizzy:

Waterit
10-27-2011, 11:56 PM
Did they go away? :dizzy:

In residential down here they sure did. It's been all Romex and plastic boxes for years.

This has been a most interesting thread - JVan from the East Coast vs. Kiril from the Wrong Coast.

I have learned something: never underestimate the ability of a man to make a horse's a$$ of himself.

Kiril
10-28-2011, 12:35 AM
This has been a most interesting thread - JVan from the East Coast vs. Kiril from the Wrong Coast.

Careful man .... I spent 5 years on the pan handle and the majority of my life on the East coast. I wised up and moved.

Waterit
10-28-2011, 09:09 AM
Careful man .... I spent 5 years on the pan handle and the majority of my life on the East coast. I wised up and moved.

That was pointed at JVan.

jvanvliet
10-28-2011, 09:31 AM
JVAN,

FL will be running under the 2009 IRC next year, currently they are under the 2007 IRC for residential. For your reference since you are clearly confused.

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_39_sec002_par002.htm

E3902.11 Arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection. All branch circuits that supply 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways and similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Exception:

1. Where a combination AFCI is installed at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit, the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and such outlet shall be wired with metal outlet and junction boxes and RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable, Type AC meeting the requirements of Section E3908.8.

2. AFCI protection is not required for a branch circuit supplying only a fire alarm system where the branch circuit is wired with metal outlet and junction boxes and RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable Type AC meeting the requirements of Section E3908.8.


and for your exterior receptacles.

E3902.3 Outdoor receptacles. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed outdoors shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.



The information you posted is the kind of talking out of your ass bullshiit inaccurate information that really chaps my ass. Get a clue jvan.

Have you checked Palm Beach County codes genius?

jvanvliet
10-28-2011, 09:58 AM
Or the local city codes? You know, like Ocean Ridge, Boynton Beach, Boca Raton, etc... Funny thing about PBC (Palm Beach County) is that when local codes meet or exceed County or State standards, local codes will prevail.

Permits are required, plans must be submitted for approval, inspections must done, we'll just go ahead and do it your way, "why Mr. Inspector, KIRIL said it was stupid and unnecessary".

How well do you think this professional installation will hold up to inspection? Maybe it's not what you are used to, it's common here. Ask the original poster, I'll bet he's got a similar FUBAR going.

And yet with all of my shortcomings, work rolls in, plans are approved, permits are granted and inspections are passed, customers are happy how the heck do we do it without all the expert advice on this forum and the second guessing and criticizing? I guess everybody in Florida is stupid right? Oh, just me, I forgot, I was in a rush to get to the bank and deposit my checks.

Oh, and look a Hunter 2 wire, this one was a little finicky about power blips.

Kiril
10-28-2011, 10:00 AM
Have you checked Palm Beach County codes genius?

Yes I did check palm beach amendments ..... there are none with respect to electrical code.

http://www.pbcgov.com/pzb/building/codes/PBC_Amend_fbc_chp1.pdf

You are welcome however to point out where the FL Building code or the Palm Beach Amendments state anything different than what is already stated in the 2005 NEC, which is what FL electrical code is currently based on.