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doug1980
10-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Anyone seeing any? Have 15 yards loaded with it so far this year.

just cuts lawn care
10-14-2011, 09:47 PM
hey doug I am having same problem round 10-20 are doing its pissing me off dont know what to do does anyone have any advice

Ric
10-14-2011, 10:27 PM
..

Heavy rains this year have given me fits with Gray Leaf spot. Normally I can fertilizer and out grow Gray Leave spot. But this year I had to treat with Fungicide earlier than normal. That Gray Leave Spot cure was also a preventive Brown patch treatment.

Brown patch used to be called Winter patch and is now called Large Patch. But let us call it Fall patch because that is when is cause problems. Rhizoctonia solani is the Microbial that causes Brown Patch. It is a soil Borne microbial and present year round. But in summer with Air temperature being 90 degrees the Grass temperature is 130 and too hot for Brown patch. As fall comes cooler temperature and short days, Brown Patch becomes active.

Keep records because you will have Brown patch in the same spot year after year. Knowing where these spots are allows you the Pretreat with a preventative.

Part of the reason for a 3 year apprenticeship before the Certification test is learning the life Cycles of Insects and disease first hand and learning to Prevent damage.


..

Landscape Poet
10-15-2011, 08:38 AM
It is on several of my properties - especially ones in which had a large common swell before waterfront that were resodding in the common area this spring- they all have severe outbreaks. I have one lawn which is spec and has been all year....that is getting nailed right now....looks horrible.

Ric Pro-Mo and I were discussing this on one of these properties and if I understood him correctly there is a point in which it becomes too cool for it to be active also is that correct? At that time would it be better to pretreat with a preventative again as the temp will pass those ranges you mentioned on the way back up.
And besides treating with a preventative ahead of time, ensuring any break out is treated with fungicide labeled for curative of Brown Patch and not trying to grow it out as you would GLS as the N can actually create a more favorable environment. Are there any other actions that need to be taken?
Is moisture a concern with BP and should it be limited? I am assuming it would be a concern but am not sure, i think Pro-Mo addressed moisture with the HO, but am not sure if it is just because they are a over watering HO anyway or if it was to help aid the recovery of the outbreak.


Anything you can share I am sure would be appreciated by all here as it is hitting CFL hard right now. .

Ric
10-15-2011, 09:54 AM
It is on several of my properties - especially ones in which had a large common swell before waterfront that were resodding in the common area this spring- they all have severe outbreaks. I have one lawn which is spec and has been all year....that is getting nailed right now....looks horrible.

Ric Pro-Mo and I were discussing this on one of these properties and if I understood him correctly there is a point in which it becomes too cool for it to be active also is that correct? At that time would it be better to pretreat with a preventative again as the temp will pass those ranges you mentioned on the way back up.
And besides treating with a preventative ahead of time, ensuring any break out is treated with fungicide labeled for curative of Brown Patch and not trying to grow it out as you would GLS as the N can actually create a more favorable environment. Are there any other actions that need to be taken?
Is moisture a concern with BP and should it be limited? I am assuming it would be a concern but am not sure, i think Pro-Mo addressed moisture with the HO, but am not sure if it is just because they are a over watering HO anyway or if it was to help aid the recovery of the outbreak.


Anything you can share I am sure would be appreciated by all here as it is hitting CFL hard right now. .

Mike

Bryan (Promo) is correct about Microbes in the Genus of Rhizoctonia being heat sensitive to both Hot and Cold. They are soil borne and present every where. However they must have the right environment to express themselves. As a Microbiology Professor used to pound in our heads. ""Everything is everywhere but the environment selects"" My attempt to re-name the Disease Fall Patch was because that is the Time of Year it is most active. Spring temperature are the same but that is also our dry season. Therefore the Environment is not correct in the spring. However knowing the right environment for each pests sure helps on strange weather years.

Fall is the real PITA time of the year for Fert & Squirt guys. Between Grubs, Brown patch and cooler temperatures for weed control this is the time of the year that tells on the Novice. Add in Snow bird come back and this is the time of year to pick or Loose accounts big time because of your quality of work. Case in point is a guy who sold out to a Novice and stayed on as CPO for him. The kid is dropping accounts like crazy right now.

As for treatment I have found "LI 700" helps Fungicide do it's job quicker. But Disease takes longer to rebound than Insects. I always tell mt customer it will Get Worse before it gets better. This of course is why preventive is better for both the Customer and the Environment as well as IPM. That is I Pay for Materials. It takes less chemicals to prevent than to Cure.

Everyone thinks they can treat lawns. But St Augustine isn't the any slop will work crap like Bluegrass. It takes an educated eye and timing that only comes from experience. You and I can look at the same lawn and see totally different things.

doug1980
10-15-2011, 10:46 AM
For Grey Leaf Spot we used a granular fungicide, but are trying a liquid fungicide for the Brown (Fall) Patch. Since all my experience is from Southern Indiana I never dealt with St. Aug before. I can honestly say that so far I hate it. It seems to be susceptible to everything. Why would anyone want St. Aug...

Ric
10-15-2011, 11:34 AM
For Grey Leaf Spot we used a granular fungicide, but are trying a liquid fungicide for the Brown (Fall) Patch. Since all my experience is from Southern Indiana I never dealt with St. Aug before. I can honestly say that so far I hate it. It seems to be susceptible to everything. Why would anyone want St. Aug...

Doug

Since most of my experience has been on warm season turf, It is only recently I realized how EASY cool Season turf can be. Just about any homeowner can take care of Cool season turf.

Being from Indiana I hope you realize why Florida requires 3 years experience working under a CPO licensed company to sit for the L&O CPO test. Not just anyone can pass that test even after 3 years. Of course it is illegal to treat turf other than your own yard without a CPO and License.

doug1980
10-15-2011, 05:56 PM
Doug

Since most of my experience has been on warm season turf, It is only recently I realized how EASY cool Season turf can be. Just about any homeowner can take care of Cool season turf.

Being from Indiana I hope you realize why Florida requires 3 years experience working under a CPO licensed company to sit for the L&O CPO test. Not just anyone can pass that test even after 3 years. Of course it is illegal to treat turf other than your own yard without a CPO and License.

Oh I do. I have 8 years of experience, was a DOD Certified Applicator, and have many months of training with the Air Force to do this work. I can honestly say it really doesn't do much good. Mixing, applying and even selecting chemicals are pretty standard no matter where you are, but diagnosing, identifying, and timing treatments are very different depending on location. I felt lost here at first, but am learning. I would imagine the same would be true for anyone here moving to Indiana. Different turf, different weeds, different seasons etc. I'm not sure 3 years is really long enough. I worked in Alaska for 3 years, talk about different world. Nothing like Indiana or Florida.

bug-guy
10-30-2011, 05:54 AM
ric is right large patch will occur it the same spots year after year. good record keeping will allow for preventative apps, which could save $ and customers. preventative is usually the low rate curative the higher rate.
heritage is an excellant product, but is a litle pricey. it is sold as a granular and as a soluble to be sprayed.
heritage is a Azoxystrobin another product in the strobin family is armada

Kevin16
11-02-2011, 08:52 AM
I know I am 150 miles from the Fla-Ga border here in SC but one item you guys have forgotten and works awesome for me and that is to cut off the irrigation totally and that helps with the control of brown patch and you still have to spray it with fungicide but in my experience by either turning off or drastically reducing the irrigation helps in the control of brown patch. Yes you guys are right its a total ***** this time of year and goes all winter for me here.

Landscape Poet
11-02-2011, 05:30 PM
I know I am 150 miles from the Fla-Ga border here in SC but one item you guys have forgotten and works awesome for me and that is to cut off the irrigation totally and that helps with the control of brown patch and you still have to spray it with fungicide but in my experience by either turning off or drastically reducing the irrigation helps in the control of brown patch. Yes you guys are right its a total ***** this time of year and goes all winter for me here.

Dialing back the irrigation should help, but sometimes mother nature has a different plan. Roughly the time this post was active a big portion of the state had 11 to 12 inches of rain hit during a Friday, Saturday, Sunday period just prior to a cold front. As a result lots of lawns got nailed.

doug1980
11-06-2011, 02:09 PM
Got a call about this one on Friday. Looked like a strange color for Fall Patch, I was thinking it may be rust. This area was just laid a month ago.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo3/speedracer1565/416217c6.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo3/speedracer1565/bcf244e1.jpg

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo3/speedracer1565/8fc09f8f.jpg

LawnoftheMonth
11-09-2011, 09:55 PM
Brown patch is severe in Houston, I tell my customers to reduce irrigation by 1/2 after Labor Day, that seems to be easy enough for them to understand. Heritage takes care of the rest.

greendoctor
11-09-2011, 10:14 PM
Looking at the lesions on the leaves can often help diagnose. Also indicative is presence and appearance of mycelium in the early morning. Rust gives itself away by depositing orange spores on shoes and pants when walking through the grass. Heritage is a good fungicide for brown patch, leaf spot and rust. Make sure there is no dollar spot because it will not help that disease. Armada is a good choice too and probably safer because it is a combination of Compass(trifloxystrobin) and Bayleton(triadimefon). The Bayleton will prevent the dollar spot from jumping if it is present in the turf.

olive123
11-16-2011, 12:37 PM
classic brown patch

RAlmaroad
11-25-2011, 03:15 AM
..

Heavy rains this year have given me fits with Gray Leaf spot. Normally I can fertilizer and out grow Gray Leave spot. But this year I had to treat with Fungicide earlier than normal. That Gray Leave Spot cure was also a preventive Brown patch treatment.

Brown patch used to be called Winter patch and is now called Large Patch. But let us call it Fall patch because that is when is cause problems. Rhizoctonia solani is the Microbial that causes Brown Patch. It is a soil Borne microbial and present year round. But in summer with Air temperature being 90 degrees the Grass temperature is 130 and too hot for Brown patch. As fall comes cooler temperature and short days, Brown Patch becomes active.

Keep records because you will have Brown patch in the same spot year after year. Knowing where these spots are allows you the Pretreat with a preventative.

Part of the reason for a 3 year apprenticeship before the Certification test is learning the life Cycles of Insects and disease first hand and learning to Prevent damage.


..

I start treatment for fungi in late May and continue every 28 days until end of October. Don't have too much of a problem. However this year, I saw some "Fall Patch". It wasn't too large but did confuse me. This was over the past weekend. It was in a spot that was know to have some ongoing fungus problems. Didn't need to mix up the big tank so I just mixed up a little Insignia and Daconic for just 1K and sprayed it after raking that spot and getting rid of the thatch. Talk about being set back to see a fungal problem in late November with temps down to 30s at night. Sorta ruined Thanksgiving--a first for me, but then again--all I deal with are First's.

jvanvliet
11-25-2011, 06:37 AM
Temperatures down here in zone 9/10 continue into the mid 80's with frequent rains. Brown spot continues to be a problem as well as grubs. We prepped a site for sod last Teusday and pulled out grubs by the handful.

Temps are supposed to stay in the mid to upper 70's today and for a while, it'll be a welcome break.

Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 08:55 AM
Figured I would throw up a picture of the worst lawn I have with BP - this one started showing symptoms in early Sept. and I requested the L and O company come resolve while they were golf ball size patches. About 4 of them. They either did not then or were treating with a chemical that did not act as a curative and did not spray far enough around the area to create a good preventative program either.
By Mid October the lawn was engulfed with BP - after many attempts to have the L and O company resolve.
Needless to say this account I will have switching L and O companies in the Spring (The Owner Prepaid for the whole year). Pro-Mo from here on LS will most likely be gaining this account in the April Time Frame - assuming the owner is not sueing the existing L and O if the turf does not come back in nice full and lush by the spring time frame.
Please note that this photos were in the late Octoberish or early November Timeframe. It has gotten worse in it's spread since then but appears to be no longer active from what I can gather upon my last visit.

jvanvliet
11-26-2011, 10:33 AM
I'm not sure if there is a 100% curative for brown patch, I believe it's mostly prophylactic in that it will control the fungus & keep the patch from spreading or forming new allowing the turf to recover. You can look for it in the same places every year if the conditions for it are right. The best preventative is probably cultural management as opposed to chemical.

Here's some intersting reading re. fungus &disease in St. Augustine. I'm sure many already know this stuff but for those who don't...

http://agfacts.tamu.edu/D11/Victoria/AG/HomeHort/LANDSCAP/nbrwnpch.htm

Landscape Poet
11-29-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure if there is a 100% curative for brown patch.

http://agfacts.tamu.edu/D11/Victoria/AG/HomeHort/LANDSCAP/nbrwnpch.htm

Kphyte and Armada are two that I know list a curative rate on the label. Now I do understand that is not going to fix it forever and the soil will still contain the disease but I can report that I went behind my spray company recently on my lawn as they were struggling to keep it from being active on my lawn. I sprayed a combination of Armada and Kphyte and no longer have what I understand to be active symptoms of it on the blades of the turf like I did previously.

Landscape Poet
11-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Just a questions for applicators - going into your fall on a first year client - do you slow your nitrogen source? I mean it would make sense as you could explode the BP if it does exist and you have no way of knowing in most circumstances as it is your first year on the property. Would it be better to approach Fall applications with light amounts of N and risk the loss of color compared to your competitor in the lawn next door? There has to be important plus sides to both - I mean if you hit it with a good does of N in the fall not caring if it explodes and it does not - the lawn appears deep green going into winter and your lawn looks great. On the other hand if you hit it hard and it explodes - you are eating your profits up on expensive fungicides trying to tame it as well as the visual damage that comes with the breakout. You input appreciated.

Plantculture
11-29-2011, 06:25 PM
My opinion would be to use small amounts of N at a time per month but put down 1# per 1000 of K now and later in the winter, along with foliar applied chelated iron.
In south fl, I'm seeing quite abit showing up.

Florida Gardener
11-29-2011, 06:30 PM
My opinion would be to use small amounts of N at a time per month but put down 1# per 1000 of K now and later in the winter, along with foliar applied chelated iron.
In south fl, I'm seeing quite abit showing up.

Matt, you put down 1#/K per K 2 times during the winter(Dec-feb)? Do you strictly put down the K on the second app?
Posted via Mobile Device

Plantculture
11-29-2011, 07:12 PM
Matt, you put down 1#/K per K 2 times during the winter(Dec-feb)? Do you strictly put down the K on the second app?
Posted via Mobile Device

That was just a suggestion for the OP in his situation relating to disease pressure and keeping a lawn green through the winter when he does not have a history on the property.
Nothing wrong with a soil test as well to get an idea of whats going on.

greendoctor
11-30-2011, 12:37 AM
Hard to feed low rates of N with a known response/release rate and enough K unless it is a custom blend. It is usually too warm for brown patch here, but dollar spot, leaf spot and Take All are always in the background. Just waiting for someone to spread too much urea or overwater. Not having enough available iron and manganese adds to the problem as well. When I say available iron, I am not talking about 1% iron sulfate or iron oxide thrown into the bag just so the label can say "contains iron''. I am talking about iron in forms that the grass will start taking up the moment it is applied. Thank goodness lawn haters have not dictated what I may and may not do as far as fertilizing a lawn is concerned.

Regarding a new client: new client is told about good fertilization practices, the benefits of good fertilization practices as it relates to the health of the lawn and the consequences of misuse of fertilizers. Yes, the lawn that xxx takes care of is greener than yours. However, that lawn does not endure heat very well, it overgrows and scalps when it is mowed, also there is leaf spot or other going through that lawn that xxx has not a clue as to how to manage. Yet xxx caused that disease by throwing the cheap, high urea crap on the lawn every three months for less than what I charge you for real turf management. I really do not care if I am out greened because IPM. I Pay Materials.