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MEXANDME
10-22-2011, 11:39 AM
Was in Florida for a couple of days and noticed that the irrigation valves are all above ground at the condo complex that I was at. Is that code in Florida? If so, is it just at commercial properties or at all properties including residential single family homes? Also, they were painted purple for non-potable.

Thanks,

Mex

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2011, 11:58 AM
And you didn't take a pic with your phone? Shame on you. My guess is they are AVB electric valves. Those need to be installed above ground but seeing as how this is FL no telling.

jvanvliet
10-22-2011, 03:09 PM
I'll bet he's looking at a continually pressurized system with an electric master valve controlling a hydro indexing valve. These would have to be installed at least 12" above grade with a PVB (also 12" above grade) between the service line & the master valve. The insanity in PBC is that they put PVB's on "brown" water as well.

Most commercial installation have the electric valves in the ground, at least in my neck of the woods, with some exceptions where some hack placed the valve manifold above ground.

Have pictures if you'd like them.

irritation
10-22-2011, 08:33 PM
Florida has some weird systems. They use those Fimco indexing valves. My sister bought a winter home there and wanted me to upgrade the system. A quick check said deal with it or spend a few grand doing it right.:hammerhead:

MEXANDME
10-22-2011, 08:56 PM
These were just plain old 1" Irritrol 205S valves. The valves were about 15" above ground, the zone wires just came up directly out of the ground, and spliced to the solenoid wires with small King connectors.

Next trip I'll get some pics.

irritation
10-22-2011, 09:06 PM
These were just plain old 1" Irritrol 205S valves. The valves were about 15" above ground, the zone wires just came up directly out of the ground, and spliced to the solenoid wires with small King connectors.

Next trip I'll get some pics.

OK, that's more like California irrigation. ASV'S :hammerhead:

DanaMac
10-22-2011, 11:27 PM
Here are some good ASV photos for ya.

jvanvliet
10-23-2011, 07:47 AM
These were just plain old 1" Irritrol 205S valves. The valves were about 15" above ground, the zone wires just came up directly out of the ground, and spliced to the solenoid wires with small King connectors.

Next trip I'll get some pics.

Where in Florida? How old was the condo? How many valves per unit? What kind of controller?

Did it look anything like these (previously posted in the hall of shame)?

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 10:38 AM
Here are some good ASV photos for ya.

:::::Shields eyes in horror::::::dizzy:

1idejim
10-23-2011, 10:55 AM
:::::Shields eyes in horror::::::dizzy:

::::::::ditto-sans one::::::::::laugh:

Wet_Boots
10-23-2011, 12:05 PM
I think one of those ASV's was the rare Richdel "solenoid optional" model

Kiril
10-23-2011, 03:23 PM
OK, that's more like California irrigation. ASV'S :hammerhead:

The 205 is not an ASV. :hammerhead:

mitchgo
10-23-2011, 06:30 PM
OK, that's more like California irrigation. ASV'S :hammerhead:

You complain about ASV's above ground and also DCV's Below ground , pick your poison?

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 08:07 PM
You complain about ASV's above ground and also DCV's Below ground , pick your poison?

A DCVA installed to correct practices is miles ahead of that crap. :hammerhead:

Kiril
10-23-2011, 09:15 PM
A DCVA installed to correct practices is miles ahead of that crap. :hammerhead:

No it's not. :waving:

mitchgo
10-23-2011, 09:20 PM
Aesthetically it is.

Kiril
10-23-2011, 09:31 PM
Aesthetically it is.

Who cares if it fails to protect the consumer?

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 10:04 PM
No it's not. :waving:

Dare I ask, wtf is wrong with a properly installed and tested DCVA? It's Cali testing regs that govern the western states and British Columbia with Alberta. I have no problem with DCVAs when professionally managed. I still consider irrigation low hazard.

Kiril
10-23-2011, 10:49 PM
I still consider irrigation low hazard.

.............. I don't

Wet_Boots
10-23-2011, 10:50 PM
A tested DCVA could fail nine seconds after you pass it as functioning properly.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 10:51 AM
Anything can fail 9 seconds from functioning properly. As a matter of fact everything that ever failed on this planet was fine just 9 seconds earlier. Hiroshima was fine 9 seconds before the A-bomb hit.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2011, 11:05 AM
When an RPZ fails, the polluted water dumps from the relief valve. Vacuum breakers fail when gravity fails. There's a reason they are rated for high-hazard service.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 11:14 AM
A tested DCVA could fail nine seconds after you pass it as functioning properly.

I've heard that line a million times and have never seen it happen after it was properly serviced and given a 2 minute test for each check.

watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=907

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 11:15 AM
Then the argument is whether residential irrigation is high or low hazard. I'm ambivalent myself. If they have any kind of ejector added then it is definitely high hazard. Personally I think the city should require a high hazard device installed with the meter that protects against the whole house.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 11:18 AM
I've heard that line a million times and have never seen it happen after it was properly serviced and given a 2 minute test for each check.

watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=907

Ditto

The problem with that attitude is that it creates a gazillion what if regulations that further make us uncompetitive as a business. Red lights at intersections? yes. Red lights every 100'? Forget it.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 11:21 AM
If they have any kind of ejector added then it is definitely high hazard.

I'm certainly not anti-RP, should a swimming pool or well be on the supply, RP is the only way to go.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2011, 11:27 AM
Then the argument is whether residential irrigation is high or low hazard. I'm ambivalent myself. If they have any kind of ejector added then it is definitely high hazard. Personally I think the city should require a high hazard device installed with the meter that protects against the whole house.Tell you what, chuckles. You get on the phone with Lloyds of London and formulate insurance coverage for backflow. Since you believe it is a low hazard, a very small sum should buy a contractor coverage in the eight-figure range.

Let us know how it goes.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 11:37 AM
Chuckles? Oldie but a goodie.

excessive liberal what if regulations + class action liberal lawyers = non competitive country with high unemployment and massive debt.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2011, 11:55 AM
Come on, those so-called "events" never happen, right? Work out the odds and line up the backing money, and cash in big.

Or not.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Matt Holliday had to go on the DL because a moth flew into his ear and had to be removed by a Doctor. What are the odds of that? Sh-t happens. Like I said HH for a whole house at the meter. It would be very easy to regulate irrigation whereas only 1% of the country could afford one and lead to a bunch of potable water threatening homeowner jobs.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2011, 12:43 PM
A moth costs what, compared to a liver transplant? Have you ever figured out why no one offers backflow coverage at a reasonable cost? It is far cheaper to call the entire outdoors toxic, and plumb accordingly. PVBs are ugly if very tall, and RPZs are expensive to install and service, but they have the type of design that covers your tail.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 01:16 PM
I think a better research use of time would be where liver transplants occur the most and compare that to the water quality of the region minus the alcohol consumption factor.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2011, 01:21 PM
What compare? If the fickle finger of fate points you out, everything you own is gone.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 01:28 PM
Note the cigarette

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 05:28 PM
Most people eat and drink so much crap, that a backfow incident would only improve the digestion. I don't recall many posters, Boots especially, that are licensed to test, so their opinions are moot, as usual.

AI Inc
10-24-2011, 05:43 PM
So what is the normal bodily reaction to 98% of backflow cases, the shhits?

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 05:45 PM
Ditto

The problem with that attitude is that it creates a gazillion what if regulations that further make us uncompetitive as a business. Red lights at intersections? yes. Red lights every 100'? Forget it.

I don't see that. We follow the regs, install accordingly and test as needed. We've had some systems that were borderline as tested , reported it to the purveyor and had it tested twice a year after that. I LIKE regs! :clapping: None of you seem to get the gist of what proper maintenance is.:hammerhead:

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2011, 06:59 PM
Not against regulations just excessive regulations. Five year backflow tests for irrigation would be fine by me. Still I think the whole property should have high hazard protection then the irrigation will be more affordable to more people.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 07:05 PM
Not against regulations just excessive regulations. Five year backflow tests for irrigation would be fine by me. Still I think the whole property should have high hazard protection then the irrigation will be more affordable to more people.

Nope, nope, nope. It's called "premises isolation", and besides hot water heater problems, it means the HO can poison themselves because of an internal cross-connection. I STRONGLY disapprove of this. :hammerhead:

Sprinkus
10-24-2011, 08:43 PM
There are 1000's upon 1000's of irrigation systems out here with DCV's that are never tested, if there is even a backflow installed at all. :wall
Some local companies are still getting away with installing DCV's when there is an OSSF on site, even though it is against local and state regulations.
The local water purveyor has recently taken over the backflow program from the city but I still doubt that it will help that much.
Maybe someone needs to invent a backflow device with a super loud alarm that goes off when it fails.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 09:53 PM
There are 1000's upon 1000's of irrigation systems out here with DCV's that are never tested, if there is even a backflow installed at all. :wall
Some local companies are still getting away with installing DCV's when there is an OSSF on site, even though it is against local and state regulations.
The local water purveyor has recently taken over the backflow program from the city but I still doubt that it will help that much.
Maybe someone needs to invent a backflow device with a super loud alarm that goes off when it fails.

::::Kills the jug of wine and hits the hay in despair:::::cry:

Wet_Boots
10-25-2011, 08:30 AM
There are 1000's upon 1000's of irrigation systems out here with DCV's that are never tested, if there is even a backflow installed at all. :wall
Some local companies are still getting away with installing DCV's when there is an OSSF on site, even though it is against local and state regulations.
The local water purveyor has recently taken over the backflow program from the city but I still doubt that it will help that much.
Maybe someone needs to invent a backflow device with a super loud alarm that goes off when it fails.They already exist, in the form of an optional relief-valve bonnet for RPZs with a switch built in, that lets you know if the relief valve opens.