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Lakee911
10-23-2011, 04:44 PM
Hi All,

I am looking for a place to have my small irrigation design critiqued before I install it. Is it okay to post here? I'm looking to do it correctly and don't want a hack job. I am an engineer and I'm rather capable (in my opinion) as well. I did read the Sticky to Homeowner's, Do-It-Yourselfer's, please read this first (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=324405). If you'd rather not have a DIY post or do not want to help, please recommend another site if you could.

Thanks,
Jason

Wet_Boots
10-23-2011, 05:01 PM
Try the homeowners assistance forum (http://www.lawnsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

greenmonster304
10-23-2011, 05:07 PM
You could post it here but you will need your hip boots to wade through all the sh!t you will most likely get from some guys. But if you stick it out and are a good sport you will get some good info eventually. Just remember most guys here make a living doing what you are asking us to do for free. so if some are not too friendly don't take it personally.
Posted via Mobile Device

mitchgo
10-23-2011, 05:09 PM
Try here (http://www.sprinklertalk.com/)

This is a good irrigation homeowners website

Wet_Boots
10-23-2011, 05:21 PM
Try here (http://www.sprinklertalk.com/)

This is a good irrigation homeowners websiteI dunno, lots of idiots there. :p

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 07:01 PM
Is it okay to post here?

Post away:give scale and sun /shade. Hope you know the psi/gpm available, otherwise these jackals will rip your heart out.

Lakee911
10-23-2011, 07:20 PM
I think I'll take my chances here with the waders. :) I've attached my plan below. There is a 2' elevation drop over approx. 4' along the south and the west...note the location of the steps on the walk to the front porch.

My static water pressure is approx. 76 psi. My max flow rate was 12GPM. I will install a RPZ BFP in my basement.

Zone 1: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 10VAN nozzles @ 6.94 GPM. Full Sun
Zone 2: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 10VAN nozzles @ 8.67 GPM. Part Sun
Zone 3: Rainbird 1804-PRS with 4VAN nozzles @ 3.28 GPM. Full Sun
Zone 4: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 8VAN nozzles @ 3.57 GPM. Full Sun

I have not selected the valves yet, but proposed locations are marked (circle with an X).

I'm using 1" SCH40 PVC for my mainline (dark green) and 3/4 Class 200 or Sch40 (not sure which yet) for my laterals.

After all of my calcs, I'm at approx. 35PSI at my furthest head (2-6).

My gut feeling is that the number of heads is high for this small lot. Can I make any reductions and not wet sidewalks/streets? I had sent off my plan to Rainbird and they recommended EST nozzles on the two narrow strips (to the S and the E). In general, I thought their plan wasn't very good.

Are the 1804 sprinkler bodies going to pop high enough for cool season grasses (fescue/rye/ky bg)? I noticed that they seem to be half the price of an 1806.

I was planning on digging trenches or slitting by hand because my lot is so small.

What do we think?

mitchgo
10-23-2011, 07:25 PM
Without going through anything other then to what zone 1 reads :)

Right off the bat, Get rid of those vans! They have a Low DU ( Distribution Uniformity) and a high GPM usage. Use fixed nozzles, some here will say to use brass nozzles instead of plastic. Or use MPR rotator nozzles

DanaMac
10-23-2011, 07:25 PM
Don't use the VANs if possible. Used the fixed arc nozzles if you can. You won't regret it. VANs use a lot more water than the fixed nozzles, no matter what the charts say. And they clog easily.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 07:35 PM
Ditto Dana. Print a paper chart to scale and take a compass to make sure you have "head-to-head" coverage. The lower area is going to stress on both sides unless heads and zones are added to provide "fill-in" coverage. By the way, all "factory" designs I've ever seen that someone, be it contractor or HO, installed made me a ton of money after a season when the plants and turf either flooded and died or stressed and died. payup

mitchgo
10-23-2011, 07:37 PM
If you can stick with a square spacing head to head ( back to back) or triangle spacing head to head( back to back) for your design, these 2 are fairly standard installation practices.. Of course there are many other things to factor in.

Sprinkus
10-23-2011, 08:08 PM
My gut feeling is that the number of heads is high for this small lot

Need more heads to achieve head to head coverage.
Look here (http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/sprinkler15.htm) for more info.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 08:23 PM
Need more heads to achieve head to head coverage.

Good old compass, it never lies with correct scale on paper and a ruler with equal. Some things never change.:clapping: It will drive the designer to :drinkup:, however.

DanaMac
10-23-2011, 08:26 PM
Head-to-head is lacking, as the others have said. You have some areas getting covered by three heads, and others that are barely covered by one head. More heads, more overlapping and even coverage.

Lakee911
10-23-2011, 08:26 PM
Thanks. I will try again. :)
Posted via Mobile Device

bcg
10-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Your design needs a lot of work. Ditch the VANs, get head to head coverage and then come back. As designed, you will not get even coverage.

I would use SST, RCS and LCS in the strip, not EST and CST. I prefer to spray towards the sidewalk so that over spray can run back into the turf.

DanaMac
10-23-2011, 08:38 PM
I prefer to spray towards the sidewalk so that over spray can run back into the turf.

And there will be overspray in those strips. Really no way around it, it happens.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Good old compass, it never lies with correct scale on paper and a ruler with equal. Some things never change.:clapping: It will drive the designer to :drinkup:, however.

These are not available anymore, but you get my drift?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-23-2011, 09:11 PM
get a Rain Master Promax for your remote.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 09:19 PM
get a Rain Master Promax for your remote.

I wonder where to buy the pigtails? :dizzy:

txirrigation
10-23-2011, 09:48 PM
Drop $150 and have a pro design the system. It will end up saving you thousands later.

I am not bashing engineers as I started my degree in that field, but I have gotten rich off a few engineer's systems.

As others said drop the vans. The 4' and 8' vans are junk, as they do not spray very well.

Look at your spacing, sometimes less is more in irrigation. Look at using the Hunter MPR, they are pretty good for this situation.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Drop $150 and have a pro design the system. sometimes less is more in irrigation.

Whoa! A whole $150.00 to design a system? Times must be tough where you are to do a design for that kind of chump change. :hammerhead:

Kiril
10-23-2011, 10:18 PM
I dunno, lots of idiots there. :p

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kiril
10-23-2011, 10:21 PM
I think I'll take my chances here with the waders. :) I've attached my plan below. There is a 2' elevation drop over approx. 4' along the south and the west...note the location of the steps on the walk to the front porch.

My static water pressure is approx. 76 psi. My max flow rate was 12GPM. I will install a RPZ BFP in my basement.

Zone 1: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 10VAN nozzles @ 6.94 GPM. Full Sun
Zone 2: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 10VAN nozzles @ 8.67 GPM. Part Sun
Zone 3: Rainbird 1804-PRS with 4VAN nozzles @ 3.28 GPM. Full Sun
Zone 4: Rainbird 1804-SAM-PRS with 8VAN nozzles @ 3.57 GPM. Full Sun

I have not selected the valves yet, but proposed locations are marked (circle with an X).

I'm using 1" SCH40 PVC for my mainline (dark green) and 3/4 Class 200 or Sch40 (not sure which yet) for my laterals.

After all of my calcs, I'm at approx. 35PSI at my furthest head (2-6).

My gut feeling is that the number of heads is high for this small lot. Can I make any reductions and not wet sidewalks/streets? I had sent off my plan to Rainbird and they recommended EST nozzles on the two narrow strips (to the S and the E). In general, I thought their plan wasn't very good.

Are the 1804 sprinkler bodies going to pop high enough for cool season grasses (fescue/rye/ky bg)? I noticed that they seem to be half the price of an 1806.

I was planning on digging trenches or slitting by hand because my lot is so small.

What do we think?

Too many single and no sprinkler coverage. Not too many heads .... not enough.

Mike Leary
10-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The forum specifies that only two exclamation marks be used per post, please follow the rules or face expulsion. Thank you for your post that said nothing.

Kiril
10-23-2011, 10:33 PM
The forum specifies that only two exclamation marks be used per post, please follow the rules or face expulsion. Thank you for your post that said nothing.

It said A LOT .... and all with a SINGLE WERD!!!!!!!! You need to visit the referenced forum ..... then you will UnDerStaNd. :dizzy:

Sprinkus
10-23-2011, 11:17 PM
It said A LOT .... and all with a SINGLE WERD!!!!!!!! You need to visit the referenced forum ..... then you will UnDerStaNd. :dizzy:

I've perused the site and know who lurks over there. :laugh:

txirrigation
10-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Whoa! A whole $150.00 to design a system? Times must be tough where you are to do a design for that kind of chump change. :hammerhead:

150 for a 4 zone head layout? That may take 10 min.

AI Inc
10-24-2011, 05:00 PM
To the OP , why a rpz , do you need one? They suck , they are the most expensive and have the shortest life span.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 07:16 PM
150 for a 4 zone head layout? That may take 10 min.

Boy howdy, such speed in the south. You're going to acertain psi/gpm, design backflow install and zone valves + lateral layout/head call-out and clock location in ten minutes? I've got work for you up north.

txirrigation
10-24-2011, 08:30 PM
Boy howdy, such speed in the south. You're going to acertain psi/gpm, design backflow install and zone valves + lateral layout/head call-out and clock location in ten minutes? I've got work for you up north.

Get me a plot of the house, static psi, meter size, preferred parts list, and I will do it.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 08:33 PM
Get me a plot of the house, static psi, meter size, preferred parts list, and I will do it.

Oh, I see. :::Cancels plane ticket to Washington St.:::

irrig8r
10-24-2011, 09:24 PM
Without going through anything other then to what zone 1 reads :)

Right off the bat, Get rid of those vans! They have a Low DU ( Distribution Uniformity) and a high GPM usage. Use fixed nozzles, some here will say to use brass nozzles instead of plastic. Or use MPR rotator nozzles

Or, wait for the new Rain Bird HE-VANS. They're out in 12s and 15s now thru Ewing, and the other radii will coming out over the months ahead. Check out the performance data here (http://ewing1.com/_vendors/rainbird/HEVAN_brochure.pdf) and the specs here (http://ewing1.com/_vendors/rainbird/HEVAN_techspec.pdf).

Strange thing though, I can find the HE-VANs on the Ewing site, but not on the Rain Bird site... they haven't been recalled or something, have they?

Kiril
10-24-2011, 09:27 PM
Oh, I see. :::Cancels plane ticket to Washington St.:::

A 10 minute design consists of a square, no slope, and with full sun exposure. A 5 year old could do that type of design in 5 minutes. Now any typical lot with multiple hydrozones will take considerably longer than 10 minutes to design properly .... that is .... unless you are a hack.

DanaMac
10-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Or, wait for the new Rain Bird HE-VANS. They're out in 12s and 15s now thru Ewing, and the other radii will coming out over the months ahead. Check out the performance data here (http://ewing1.com/_vendors/rainbird/HEVAN_brochure.pdf) and the specs here (http://ewing1.com/_vendors/rainbird/HEVAN_techspec.pdf).

Strange thing though, I can find the HE-VANs on the Ewing site, but not on the Rain Bird site... they haven't been recalled or something, have they?

They are not available in all states yet. So maybe they are withholding it from the RB site. Not available here in CO.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 09:35 PM
Again, until the guy gets his compass out and scribes the arcs, it's moot what the nozzle choice should be. I think you all know my choice + 1806 RB heads, though MP Rotators with the right layout will be fine.

Kiril
10-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Again, until the guy gets his compass out and scribes the arcs, it's moot what the nozzle choice should be.

Agreed .... but in todays world we use something called CAD .... you old fart. ;)

irrig8r
10-24-2011, 09:42 PM
OK. Found them (http://www.rainbird.com/HEVAN/index.htm). Including a video (http://www.rainbird.com/HEVAN/video.htm).

irrig8r
10-24-2011, 09:47 PM
They are not available in all states yet. So maybe they are withholding it from the RB site. Not available here in CO.

Ooohhh... :)

Should I start a side business selling gray market HE-VANS across state lines?

I hauled cases of slightly dented Coors cans in my car up to Oregon in the mid 70's and paid for my gas on a couple of trips. Lots of Coors lovers around Corvallis for some reason I never understood. Dented cans came from the local distributor where my neighbor worked.

Mike Leary
10-24-2011, 09:50 PM
Agreed .... but in todays world we use something called CAD .... you old fart. ;)

Every CAD design I've seen bites. I've turned down a ton of bids on CAD because, simply, they were wrong. Geez, I'm starting to agree with sonny.

Sprinkus
10-24-2011, 10:10 PM
Strange thing though, I can find the HE-VANs on the Ewing site, but not on the Rain Bird site... they haven't been recalled or something, have they?

I've installed a quite a few recently to replace the older style ones. Hopefully they'll suck less. Hmmmm, I actually accidentally spelled "lees" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lees_%28fermentation%29) instead of "less" and spell check didn't flag it. Must have something to do with my personal fermentation. :drinkup:

irrig8r
10-25-2011, 03:56 PM
These are not available anymore, but you get my drift?

Mine looks the same but says Pickett MODEL 238 RapidRule.
It's an Architect Scale, in 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" (all = 1 foot), 1:1, and 2:1.

Looks to me like you can still get them: http://www.rapidrule.com/

When I took a class we had to use an Engineering Scale: 1" = 10', 1" = 20', 1" = 30', 1" = 40', etc.

Gawd help you if you turn the rod accidentally part way through a test. :-)

Mike Leary
10-25-2011, 04:20 PM
Mine looks the same but says Pickett MODEL 238 RapidRule.
It's an Architect Scale, in 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" (all = 1 foot), 1:1, and 2:1.
Gawd help you if you turn the rod accidentally part way through a test. :-)

Architect scale is the only way to go, mine is a RapidRule, also. I've been almost done with a design, everything was working out, until I realized I'd gone to 1/16 instead of 1/8! :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
10-25-2011, 05:29 PM
If your plot plans are drawn for an engineering scale, that's what you need to have.

Mike Leary
10-25-2011, 05:34 PM
If your plot plans are drawn for an engineering scale, that's what you need to have.

True, I cajoled all my LAs and designers to go to 1/8 or 1/16, it made it so much easier for all of us. I just could not work on a design larger than 1/16, and many times on commercial/mega sites, I'd have the repro people enlarge the plans to my scale. (even though it would take a couple of sheets).

Wet_Boots
10-25-2011, 05:44 PM
I remember one job where I took a weenie plot plan done on some oddball architect scale, and converted it to a larger engineering scale. It was the one and only time I got to use a pantograph on my drafting table.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6818/drawingb.jpg

Mike Leary
10-25-2011, 05:48 PM
I remember one job where I took a weenie plot plan done on some oddball architect scale, and converted it to a larger engineering scale. It was the one and only time I got to use a pantograph on my drafting table.

Very cool. Many times, I'd have to take my plans back to repro because they could not get the drift of converting existing scale to my specified 1/16.

hamham
10-27-2011, 04:21 PM
OP is baddly needing head-to-head coverage.

My DIY take is below.

We need pics on your install for a proper critique. Frankly, I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Sprinkus
10-27-2011, 06:55 PM
A 15EST in between two other 15EST's? ;) Which way is it supposed to spray? Right or left?

Wet_Boots
10-27-2011, 07:16 PM
depends on the day of the week :p

hamham
10-27-2011, 11:39 PM
A 15EST in between two other 15EST's? ;) Which way is it supposed to spray? Right or left?

The natives are especially restless today. That was a typo.

BPS##
10-28-2011, 12:06 AM
I am an engineer and I'm rather capable (in my opinion) as well.

Thanks,
Jason



:laugh::laugh:


Several years ago I had to repair an absolute freaking nightmare from hell ............ guess what?
It was engineer designed and installed. It lacked 100% common sense. *trucewhiteflag*



But in your case there MIGHT BE hope.
I'm looking to do it correctly and don't want a hack job.