Mowing Quote Calculator Experiment

[Lawn Sharks]

I threw together an Excel spreadsheet with a few formulas and am tweaking it.

Base formula shows the following results for a typical one acre of mowable grass house lot including the footprint of the house without large areas of unmowable terrain.

43560 sf. lot
sf under 10k $22.00
sf 10k-20k $ 7.00
sf >20k $11.78

Mowing Sub-Total $40.58

272 feet of edging $ 8.16
16 Obstacles $ 4.00
Mobilization Fee $ 5.00

Total Estimate $57.95

This includes the post mow and edge blow of hard surfaces.

I should be tweaking it to calculate fuel used, oil costs, depreciation of mower, blade sharpening costs as well as other overhead costs as guages. Love to have an overhead total and profit calculator as the end result with time estimates. That will take more time though. Also will put in a large area string trimmer calculator for those unmanageble banks etc.

Kinda fun to play with. It has flaws I know. Not perfect, but you can certainly make anything happen that you want.

Could easily rig my laptop in the front seat of the car along with a 12v printer and with my handy dandy measuring wheel could bang out a printed quote on my company letterhead in minutes. That would impress em.

Cheers,
Keth

[AztlanLC]

Can I trade you a copy of the program?

[Runner]

Originally posted by Keth
I threw together an Excel spreadsheet with a few formulas and am tweaking it.
Base formula shows the following results for a typical one acre of mowable grass house lot including the footprint of the house without large areas of unmowable terrain.

43560 sf. lot
sf under 10k $22.00
sf 10k-20k $ 7.00
sf >20k $11.78

Mowing Sub-Total $40.58



Cheers,
Keth

I'm a bit confused, here. Why is the larger amount of sq. ft. cheaper? Is this the price per M, or what?:confused:

[Lawn-Scapes]

Runner,

The way I read it is the first 10k is $22, the next 10k is $7 and the remaining square footage is $11.78.

I think it would be a lot simpler to just say $1 per thousand ($43.50).. wouldn't it?

[Lawn Sharks]

runner - the price decreases for larger sized lots due to efficiency

if you tried charging the same rate for every sq ft you would quickly price yourself out of larger properties and the smaller properties would be too cheap so you make anything you cut

25$ mimimum

This is some tweaking of something that I saw in a different forum.

Formula so far:

Square Footage under 10000 sf. X 0.0022

Square Footage of 10000-20000 X 0.0007

Square Footage of < 20000 X 0.0005



Linear feet of edging X 0.03
minimum of 125 feet

Obstacles X 0.25

$5 mobilization fee


See, it is real simple. Pop it into Excel and play around with it. The pricing for larger properties still needs a lot of work but I will prevail.

Keth

[Lawn Sharks]

TSG,
Interesting. Why don't you give me the data for one of your typical properties and I will run it both ways to see what we come up with. Could be interesting!

Anyone for that matter. Would be good to get a cross section of situations to tweak this a bit.

Keth

[greenman]

$57.95 for a little over an acre. :laugh: I can get plenty of work for you.

[Bill Davis]

Geenman is right. That sounds lower than some of the lowballers and greenman knows the people that i am talking about:D !!

[IBGreen]

Boy, I hope you all aren't talking about me!

[Bill Davis]

No, by the way was my branch on your list of banks and dont lie b/c I would just like to know. The company I am talking about all drive maroon trucks with beat up equipment and the other one drives grey trucks with beat up equipment.

[Lawn-Scapes]

How much do you guys get for an acre there? How long does it take to service the average acre lot?

Thanks

[greenman]

Just depends on how much trimming and such. Anywhere from $80 to $140. $80 to $100 is probably most. I charge all maintenance mowing by the sq.ft.

[Lawn-Scapes]

Thanks for the reply greenman.. how 'bout my second question.. How long does it take you to service one of these $80-100 (1 acre) properties?

[KLMlawn]

I can do an acre in about 40 minutes with a helper ... cut,trim & edge, and blow and the least I charge is $80. That is an acre prop and about 35K of lawn.

[nu83]

I am working on an excel formula for bidding also, I am trying to calculate all expenses directly to sq. ft. of mowing, trimming etc. I think I can get a nice equation based on sq. ft, the problem I have is with the difficulty of landscape. For instance you may be able to complete 1 acre in 40 mins at one location and over an hour at another. I have searched and found some ideas from others but it is very difficult to be exact without actually mowing it once. Also, I am solo now, next year I anticipate adding 2 workers, the expense added is obvious, but the speed added is a question. With a 2 person crew I figure the in and out time should be approx. 1/2 or a little over the time it takes one person. However when adding a third person how much will it effect the time taken per job ?

[Lawn Sharks]

Originally posted by greenman
$57.95 for a little over an acre. :laugh: I can get plenty of work for you.


The lot size is an acre. You are forgetting the footprint of the house driveway and non-mowing areas. The total mowed area would be considerably less than an acre. This is an area that could use some tweaking in the formula and it may be better off to go to a strictly "mowed area" calculation as the differences between properties mowable surface could throw the profit margin out the window.

Keth

[KLMlawn]

A question I have is, why do you need a calculator ... lawn care and mowing are not in the league with rocket science ... find your base price (minimum charge) that you feel comfortable with and then just add a set amout per K thereafter. Or use a bracket system ... min. say 5k, then 5-7.5 K, 7.5 - 10K, and so on ... then you could have set acre pricing and make small adjustments from that to take into account extra weed whacking or obstacles.
I am not trying to put anyone down, but I think needing to be so precise is just creating more work than you are actually getting paid for. The one thing I think is most important is to know the exact sq.ft. of lawn area, as a reference, and you take that when you first go to give the estimate. After that it should all be cake ....

[KLMlawn]

nu83, I have found that by adding one helper, I average a time savings of about 30%, so what would normally take me an hour by myself would take two about 40 minutes or so. Yes, it is true that two props the same size and exactly the same lawn area but with different layouts, can differ drastically in overall finish time. But that is where you have to add a few dollar in for difficulty. That is another thing I couldn't figure out about using the calculator system ... trying to work in a difficulty factor to a set price per sq.ft. ... what may seem more difficult to one person may not appear to be an obstacle for another....

[Lawn Sharks]

Kryn,
So what you are saying is that you would accept a lower profit margin on a property that is 7.4k as opposed to the property that is 5.1k? If they are priced the same you are either overcharging the 5k prop or undercharging the 7k client. Myself, I want to have a consistent profit margin across all of my clients.

This is not rocket science but then again neither is laying carpet.
When was the last time you saw a carpet layer walk into a house and take a quick look around and say "I could do this place for $1500". Never happen. The carpet company has a formula that calculates everything and they know when they walk in a door what their average price is and the lowest price they can do and still make a profit after overhead and expenses are accounted for. It's only business. That is why they measure carefully and do it by the square foot. The smaller the unit of measure the less margin for error. Your use of a 2,500 square foot gap for the same price is highly inefficient. No offense intended.

In my opinion a customer who asks for a quote will be more impressed by my using my measuring wheel and calculator then by me folding my arms across my chest and saying $60. Once it is fine tuned to reflect the market in my area I believe I will benefit over the eyeballer. Ask any eyeballer if he has an account that he underbid on and doesnt make money. Bet that most would admit to at least one.

Will be fun seeing how this works this coming season. I am sure there are some tweaks and more serious code to be written but once it is done should provide some interesting answers. Especially looking forward to the equipment depreciation piece!

Regards,
Keth

[greenman]

Originally posted by Keth
The lot size is an acre. You are forgetting the footprint of the house driveway and non-mowing areas. The total mowed area would be considerably less than an acre. This is an area that could use some tweaking in the formula and it may be better off to go to a strictly "mowed area" calculation as the differences between properties mowable surface could throw the profit margin out the window.

Keth

No, I am not forgetting about the house and hard-surfaces. The house has to be trimmed around, so does the fence (if there is one), the edges have to be done, the hard surfaces have to be blown off. I do not subtract the house in my figures. If anything add it, because it easier to mow wide open than to trim around a house or any other obstacle for that matter.

[KLMlawn]

Keth, you are right when you should be getting more for a larger prop or charge a bit less for a smaller one to be fair to the customer, but they way I do it and feel comfortable is in $5 increments, not 50 cents or a dollar.
Basically, my pricing is this:
3-5K = $25
5-7.5K = $30
7.5-10K = $35

And so on .. and this is based on just "lawn area" not the prop size and is for mow, trim/edge, and blow .... no beds, or other services ... that is all extra.

[Lawn Sharks]

Greenman,
The cost of trimming the house is factored in. Probably not a wash between mowing the same area and trimming around it but for now it seems to be okay. I would only trim areas where the grass touches the foundation anyway. The edging part of the calculation (0.0333) would take care of any flower beds adjacent to the house so you are still getting paid for a percentage of the house perimeter and you dont have to mow that area. This could be figured out easily and all you would have to do is add a trimmer calculation, eliminate the footprint of the house and work on your profit margin with the new numbers. I chose not to do that with this first iteration but could figure it out with another glass of wine.

The blow is part of the package and is figured into the mow. Blowing takes so little time that I decided not to focus on it. Again, not perfect, but it takes me less time to blow a particular sized area than to mow it so I figure it helps with the wash on the trimming I do around the house.

Keth

[greenman]

Ok, sound too complex to me. I have my own formula, much simpler, but its right on the mark for me. Whatever works for you.

[Flex-Deck]

Keth - Just tried your formula - I did go to .0010 in stead of .0007 on the second 10K, and for a corner double lot 120 x 120 with a house 30 x 30 it worked out to about $36, which is great - I mow it in 17 min, trim in 10 min, blow in 3 min.

Also tried it on a new bid I am going to do on the county parks here - there is one park that is 5 acres with a shelter house and some obstacles - your formula came out $156, and off the top of my head, when driving thru the park I was thinking $150

Thanks, Brad

[Flex-Deck]

Keth - By the way - everyone here seems to be asking how long it takes to mow an acre again - this has happened before -

1. It depends upon how big and wide and maneuverable your machine is.
2. Depends upon the # of obstacles, - number of trimming feet, amount of blowing time needed etc.

I will also plug in blowing time at 1/2 of the trimming charge on the places that need it .

Nice formula - PS - I mow a bank that is 1.7 acres in 29 min, and trim in 11 min. - Pays $60 - That was my off the cuff formula, and I bet if I plug in the numbers to your chart it will be very close to $60 - Realize I have a 78" deck - that can trim a lot of places

Thanks, Bradhttp://JD tractor

[Lawn Sharks]

Originally posted by Flex-Deck
Keth - Just tried your formula - I did go to .0010 in stead of .0007 on the second 10K,

Great stuff Brad! That is the way to do it. Tweak it till you find what works for you. The best part will be when I add in
fuel costs, equipment depreciation and other sundry items like blade sharpening costs, air filters, oil changes, trimmer string, truck costs etc.. The great part is that you only will have to enter these once thank goodness. With these calculations you can then figure out a profit percentage that you need to get the most out of your business.

Since I put this together earlier today I have measured four properties. My own, another one I mow, and two that are friends who have someone else do it. Learned a lot. One of my friends is paying very little and I am sure the person who quoted them is hating themself and the other is paying almost exactly what the calculator says. Doesn't always show you shocking results but when it does it is an eye opener. As for my own and the other property I mow I found the quote for my property to be reasonable. Certainly not the $35 that Johnny 21" will do it for but fair. And for the property that I mow they will be getting a slight rate increase next year or not be on my list.

Cheers,
Keth

PS It took fifteen minutes to measure my property (~1acre) using the formula and come up with a quote that is profitable and fair. The measuring wheel cost $39.99.

[greenman]

Keth, although that formula may work great for you, it may not for others. The next time I measure and bid I will compare mine with yours.

[Lawn Sharks]

Originally posted by Flex-Deck
Keth .....
Nice formula - PS - I mow a bank that is 1.7 acres in 29 min, and trim in 11 min. - Pays $60 - That was my off the cuff formula, and I bet if I plug in the numbers to your chart it will be very close to $60 - Realize I have a 78" deck - that can trim a lot of places

Thanks, Bradhttp://JD tractor


Brad,
Thanks for the feedback.

I entered 1.7 acres into the calculator (74,052 sf) without edging or obstacles (trimming) it comes to $61.03.

Kinda cool eh?

Keth

[Lawn Sharks]

Brad,
I should have asked if the trimming is obstacles like trees, swingsets etc. or a wide area that you cannot get to with the mower. I had figured on adding a "wide area trimming" field.

Cheers,
Keth

[Flex-Deck]

Keth - My JD dealer a long time ago gave me a pretty good formula to go by as to how to figure depreciation, maintainance, etc.

1 percent of the cost of the machine covers an 8 hr day - example $10,000 JD 455 - 22HP diesel - at 1 percent is $100 for an 8 hr day = $12.50 per hr for fuel, maintainance - depreciation etc.

Obviously if one runs the mower 600 hrs per yr, it may be less than that, but I would rather estimate the costs high and the profits low, because then you get a suprise at the end of the year.

Thanks, Brad

[Flex-Deck]

Keth - At the Bank I mow, it has a square drive around it for the drive thru - 3 Islands of grass with curbs, 5 security lights with cement bases, and an island sign out front - have no clue as to the number of feet - it is a lot - Since I have a flex-deck, I only am trimming a 1" band along and around everything, so I can trim on the run - I do not have to stop and mow 2' x 2' areas - I also has a very steep ditch out front with 3 culverts to trim, but the flex-deck hangs over them, so - boom - nooo trimmmminnng.

Thanks, Brad - Ps did I mention I am plugging in a 50 cents a mile deal, but will average it out to all customers - If the route has 10 customers - do 50 miles, they all get $2.50 added in the charge.

[ranger520]

I use a multiplier in my equation, for example: Multiplie by 1.5 will increase your price by 50%. The longer I use this method the easier it is. If you can measure up a prop at say 15k x .0026 x 1.5 = 58.50. This would be like a fully fences prop with a few trees vs a prop with no trees or fence: 15k x .0026 x 1 = 39.00. Easy to just throw the multiplier into a excel equation.

scott

[stslawncare]

very interesting topic. what are some other formulas others have?

[greenman]

Originally posted by ranger520
I use a multiplier in my equation, for example: Multiplie by 1.5 will increase your price by 50%. The longer I use this method the easier it is. If you can measure up a prop at say 15k x .0026 x 1.5 = 58.50. This would be like a fully fences prop with a few trees vs a prop with no trees or fence: 15k x .0026 x 1 = 39.00.

scott

15000sq.ft= $50, my formula, but it depends on the property(no obstacles, more obstacles), could be a little less or a little more.

[SIG]

Hey Tom/ TSG,
I got a feeling you might be thinking what I am thinking. 80.00 an acre, we live in the wrong place!! Maybe I need to seriously re-evaulate my pricing???

[greenman]

No, you guys dont live in the wrong place. Ar is one of the lowest income states. We (LCO's)just stick together. We make sure not to reign on each other parade, and we stick firm to our prices. Heck, you few of us (LCOs) even have luncheons every month or so to talk business.