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RigglePLC
10-27-2011, 07:14 PM
On a trip to northern Michigan, I checked several oak, pine and spruce trees to see if the trees or their pine needles caused acid soil. I used a simple pH meter. I found no evidence for acid soil around these trees.

Diet Pepsi registered pH 6.5. This meter has no calibration adjustments.

phasthound
10-28-2011, 09:18 AM
Riggle,
I envy your retirement and hope that when I make that move, I will continue to learn and contribute as you are doing.

For years, I have been interested in gaining a better understanding of soil health and how important it is in maintaining turf. While soil structure, Ph and nutrients all play a role, what really turns me on is soil biology and all the new science that is helping us understand what is happening under our feet.

Here's a taste of what we are learning. Scroll down to the Benefits of Complexity section.
http://urbanext.illinois.edu/soil/SoilBiology/fw&soilhealth.htm

FYS777
10-28-2011, 09:58 AM
my question riggle, did you find out if there was anything used to balance the ph levels, just a thought because you are testing were there is lawn growing around the trees?????

RigglePLC
10-28-2011, 11:09 AM
I tested in several places miles apart. I found a few that were native white pine, a mile form the nearest lawn, same result, very near pH 7. At the Big Rapids rest area: pH 6.8 underneath a 50 foot white Pine. Under a native balsam fir in a nature preserve pH 6.9. Oddly, the most acid soil I found was under an ash tree: pH 6.0. It was near an abandoned railway so maybe some coal fell off the train.

americanlawn
10-28-2011, 08:07 PM
Nice post buddy. So many "wives tails" out here, and I'm sure you've heard them all. Pine needles, walnuts, red cedars, etc, etc. Not sure about "coal" though. :laugh:

I tested in several places miles apart. I found a few that were native white pine, a mile form the nearest lawn, same result, very near pH 7. At the Big Rapids rest area: pH 6.8 underneath a 50 foot white Pine. Under a native balsam fir in a nature preserve pH 6.9. Oddly, the most acid soil I found was under an ash tree: pH 6.0. It was near an abandoned railway so maybe some coal fell off the train.

CHARLES CUE
10-28-2011, 09:05 PM
Good job Riggles

Now we need a lawn that had the PH tested by a lab and see how it compares to your meter

All the lawns that i have tested for PH didn't need lime. But every one adds lime every year as a reg lime app.

Charles Cue

FYS777
10-28-2011, 10:11 PM
riggle, here is a link to use it the right way, by looking at your picture you need help, badly
http://www.outsidepride.com/soil-test-kits/1840-ph-soil-tester.html

please read carefully.:)

Smallaxe
10-28-2011, 10:32 PM
On a trip to northern Michigan, I checked several oak, pine and spruce trees to see if the trees or their pine needles caused acid soil. I used a simple pH meter. I found no evidence for acid soil around these trees.

Diet Pepsi registered pH 6.5. This meter has no calibration adjustments.

What I liked about your 'Readings' was that there was grass growing, just fine in these areas...

What I find interesting about the 'link' provided by one of your detractors was a comment on the website, that claimed rocks need to be removed becuz they would influence results....

My, my, my... you mean that there are actual items extant in out earth that makes it possible for grass to grow that doesn't fit in to our scientific baloney about what makes the grass grow... :)

I suppose it is ideal that we remove all the stones etc. so that the pH is too low for grass to grow.... BAD URL Dude... :laugh:

FYS777
10-28-2011, 10:44 PM
well it was for his device.

Smallaxe
10-28-2011, 11:08 PM
well it was for his device.

When you can explain the device of a root system, then I suppose we could acknowledge a URL that defines the function of a device that requires the subtraction of the real world...

For me... the grass proves more by its very being there than some clinical ideal of an educrat that requires a sterile , unreal environment to test...

Let's test the real environment , in its entirety, then: we may caqll it science... remember... there was lots of grass there... :)

FYS777
10-28-2011, 11:14 PM
my question riggle, did you find out if there was anything used to balance the ph levels, just a thought because you are testing were there is lawn growing around the trees?????

i now i now. see my bold, from my first post

Smallaxe
10-29-2011, 12:01 AM
i now i now. see my bold, from my first post

riggle, here is a link to use it the right way, by looking at your picture you need help, badly

well, it was for his device...

What was meant by... "Needing help badly"...
Psalm 67 would help?

FYS777
10-29-2011, 01:16 AM
i would say that the probe has no soil contact in the location in which it was placed. hope that shined enough, but probably not.

RigglePLC
10-29-2011, 10:12 AM
Actually Charles,
I sent in a soil sample from my own yard to the Michigan State University Soils Lab, in 1999. The pH reading was the same as today, pH 6.8.

Nevertheless, I am not using a high-tech laboratory-quality meter. Anything past the first decimal point should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually, I have three home gardener pH meters--and they never fully agree.
Here is my spare.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00134UQEC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001RURI34&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1XXQW42X0GJ1G3M8W3V9

phasthound
10-29-2011, 12:05 PM
IMO, Ph readings whether from a meter or a lab are not as useful for turf as we think. Nutrient cycling only occurs in the rhizosphere, not in the general soil where readings are taken from.

FYS777
10-29-2011, 12:42 PM
IMO, Ph readings whether from a meter or a lab are not as useful for turf as we think. Nutrient cycling only occurs in the rhizosphere, not in the general soil where readings are taken from.

that is interesting, so then in general why bother getting nutrients in the soil??? i am learning and i know that you guys have more info, in these area's then me. i hope this is a good question????

CHARLES CUE
10-29-2011, 08:08 PM
IMO, Ph readings whether from a meter or a lab are not as useful for turf as we think. Nutrient cycling only occurs in the rhizosphere, not in the general soil where readings are taken from.

I had to look

The Rhizosphere is the zone surrounding the roots of plants in which complex relations exist among the plant, the soil microorganisms and the soil itself. The plant roots and the biofilm associated with them can profoundly, influence the chemistry of the soil including pH and nitrogen transformations.

Rhizosphere

Charles Cue

Smallaxe
10-30-2011, 09:24 AM
And in the area right around the root, it exudes chemicicals to make the pH of the surrounding soil to its own ideal level... I wish that concept was expanded upon more... :)

phasthound
11-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Here's a start:
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/42259/Rhizosphere.pdf

Regarding the ? on the need to add nutrients;
In a natural non-managed landscape, nutrients come from parent minerals in the soil, the atmosphere and organic matter.

Turf management is an entirely different system. Conventional methods have had to by-pass natural systems in order to provide the currently accepted norms for lawns. Newer science has made it possible now to make use of these systems.