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View Full Version : Hey guys will this work?


1grnlwn
11-13-2002, 12:23 AM
I was going to do the brick edging with mortar but I wanted it done before 2025. (my house) Trench is 10" deep using fill sand and tamping. Using 1/4" joints and sweeping sand in joints. Will this hold up?

Lanelle
11-13-2002, 12:27 AM
While your picture is fairly helpful, a few explanations of what we are seeing would be good. Are these flagstones that are being placed on soil?

1grnlwn
11-13-2002, 12:28 AM
other view

Lanelle
11-13-2002, 12:35 AM
Is this paver brick bed edging?

1grnlwn
11-13-2002, 12:43 AM
Used brick from old house 8" of fill sand then brick.

Lanelle
11-13-2002, 12:47 AM
Ok, I'm getting weary of this game. What are you making? A walkway or bed edging or something else? How can we know if something will work if we don't know the intended use? Normally I would say that a deep sand base is not stable and will promote shifting of the bricks. There is no such thing as compacted sand from an engineering point of view.

1grnlwn
11-13-2002, 12:52 AM
Sorry its edging just haven't cleaned out bed side yet. That may not be done till spring. I figured sand was better than just putting them on dirt. Would rock chips be better or is mortar the only good way?

Lanelle
11-13-2002, 01:00 AM
Using mortar will require a deep solid footer (concrete/block) to avoid frost heaving problems which will crack up the mortar in a very ugly fashion. The next variable is type of soil. Here we have clay which is unstable so I would either go with the footer and mortar or put down a base of compacted CA-6, put in paver edging on at least one side of the brick, and use about an inch of sand for bedding under the bricks. Sweeping sand into the joints will definitely work.

1grnlwn
11-13-2002, 01:02 AM
Ok thanks!

Stonehenge
11-13-2002, 09:21 AM
For the brick bed edgings we've ever installed, we only use about an inch of sand, and that's it. Here's why:

No matter what depth of base you install, with only a single brick width, there is no interlock, and the brick will wobble a little when walked on.

Mortaring them together, on a thin bed of mortar would only cause future problems, at least where I live, because freeze-thaw will certainly push all that around.

Creating a footing below the frost line for something as simple as a bed edge seems like overkill.

Edge restraint on the lawn side is a good idea. That coupled with installing the brick with a bit of a slope away from the bed and they will stay in relatively good position to eachother.

The 8" or so of sand that you have is likely too much as Lanelle mentioned. If you have more to do, I'd just put in 1-2". I'd also cut the trench a little closer to the actual size you need, or lay the brick to the lawn side of the trench, so you aren't left having to reseed or sod the little area between the brick and the bed.

The goal for installations like this is usually part aesthetic, part function. They look nice setting off a landscape bed, and they make mowing around the bed much easier. With those 2 goals, and seeing that you're using reclaimed brick, I think that if they were to move a little bit, it wouldn't be a hardship.

LawnLad
11-13-2002, 10:27 AM
When we install brick edging we install the bed first. If it's going into an area with existing lawn this is perfect. We cut the bed edge with a sod cutter or bed edger. Prepare the bed, plant it, etc.

Then we rake/shovel the base area along the grass line for the brick edge. Use a little screening or sand (1" ish) so it's easy to trowel. Install the brick and sweep sand in the joints. We then rake the soil to the back edge of the brick from the bed and then finish rake. The lawn acts as your guide for the brick edge.

We have not used brick edge, I can see where this would be helpful. But we haven't had too much movement in the past. As well, I don't like using an edger on brick with plastic brick edging. So I'd rather not install it for that reason. Seems like equal pressure on both sides of the brick edging - so not much is pushing the edging in or out.

kris
11-13-2002, 06:30 PM
This year we probably installed paver bed edging on 80% of all jobs .... we aim for a base of 6" crush but I'm not to picky if it's a little less. We don't use edge restraint .. I think the cost would be to high ... and if you did ... why not both sides?

Stonehenge
11-13-2002, 08:54 PM
Kris,

I'm interested in why you'd install a 6" stone base for something like a bed edge. Way, way back when, I went to the lengths of even setting screed rails for this brick bed edge. That's right, screed rails for a brick strip 8" wide. I guess I was young and full of spunk back then. Full of something, anyway....

But over time I've found that no matter what we do, those pavers are always able to move a little, because there's no interlock, and there's just not enough gravity to keep them from moving around when a force acts upon them. So, I find I get the same results whether we put in the normal patio base, or we just put in an inch of sand.

So with that as the context, what have you found that made it worthwhile to put in a 6" stone base?

kris
11-14-2002, 12:19 AM
Your right Jeff ... it may not be necessary. Like I mentioned I am not to picky when it comes to how much base for this. In almost all installations it is being put down on a new landscape that we have excavated the complete yard, and filled with 12 in of garden mix in shrub beds and a min of 4" soil for the turf. Just does not seem right putting down the pavers on next to nothing. A "crush" base is compacted ( usually with a hand tamper ) and then another little bit to bring it up to grade ... pavers are then put in place and quickly "set" level with a heavy rubber mallet - in some cases a board is on top to level a long stretch.
After all that rambling it goes back to my first sentence and just the way we sell the paver edge option.

A bit of a base could be beneficial because of the lawn mower and possible foot traffic.

steveair
11-16-2002, 02:42 PM
Hello,

I believe, and for the life of me, can't remember who, someone makes a edge restraint set up for doing brick borders. It looked kind of like two regular pieces of plastic brick edging, but connected like a ladder.

I wish I had gotten the info when I saw it. I looked like a real quick way to lay them, and seemed like it would hold the bricks from moving around quite well.

steve

cos
11-17-2002, 03:39 PM
I learned alot from this thread. :)

1grnlwn
11-17-2002, 10:36 PM
Cos, Stick with me baby! I will take you to the middle.