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View Full Version : Is this the year with no leaf season?


Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 01:08 PM
After doing landscaping for 23 years I knew when we had a real wet summer with virtually no drought skips it was blessing with a huge price tag. Iv been around long enough to know that means the leaves would last 2-4 weeks longer and push the fall clean ups back till late Nov early Dec. And of course that's an issue because then you can lose all of them with a freak snow storm. Well funny we should bring that up as I look out at 1 inch flakes passing my window. It's Oct 29th half my trees are still green still mowing with 2 weeks of mowing left due to the conditions. And they have this as a 4-6 inch storm starting around midnight trouble is the rain turned to snow 12 hour early. So now I am looking at probably a foot of snow before Nov. Granted they aren't predicting that yet but one thing you learn as a landscaper is how to read maps and I am better at it then the weathermen. So assuming the worse and we do get a foot how long to melt off since they have been off on the temp predictions by 10 degrees the entire week.

And so now I am contemplating the reality that I am owed 40k I am broke but just paid about 20k in bills a few nights ago and now may be losing the last 30-35k of the season can I stretch that till March that is the question. And course this is what always trips up the newbies is budgeting through the lean parts. All I can say is next spring would be insane if we miss 100 fall clean ups then add in the spring only guys and I could be looking at 40k in spring clean ups instead of the normal 16-18k. I guess its never a dull moment and I might have just gotten out of designing a box for the new truck for now.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 01:30 PM
For those that don't know what snow looks like when the leaves are still green

HenryB
10-29-2011, 01:34 PM
Leaves drop due to less daylight hours. The variation from year to year is minimal and weather doesnt affect leaves dropping very much.

Glenn Lawn Care
10-29-2011, 01:39 PM
We had the same thing happen to us here in Minnesota last year but not this early.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Leaves drop due to less daylight hours. The variation from year to year is minimal and weather doesnt affect leaves dropping very much.

Drought effects the maples majorly here if its very dry they hardly the leaves hardly make it out of Sept.

Now the branches are snapping here just had to move the trucks this is going to get really ugly tonight.

94gt331
10-29-2011, 02:36 PM
Yeah here in pa is the exact same way still leaves on the trees. I'm waiting around till about 7- or 8 pm to see if i can go plow some accounts. as where getting snow right now. Didn't even start leaf cleanups yet. What a messed up and sloppy year that's for sure. It's deffinately a mental strain. This season just flew by with rainy weeks, and just trying to keep up with the fast growing grass, i didn't get to stop and smell the roses this year. Hopefully next year is nice and dry. I wish you luck in trying to finish out the season good.:usflag:

DiSantolandscaping
10-29-2011, 02:42 PM
take some more pics in a few hours so we can see what we have got comming our way. there saying 6 to 12 here and its not supposed to start till after midnight, but its already snowing in western nh so im thinking about 4 hours itll be here.

cslawnandlandscape
10-29-2011, 02:52 PM
I sure hope not, most of my properties have had multiple clean ups on them already but these still had half if not more of the leaves on their trees.

I'm just curious to see what this storm does. It's snowing like a ***** here in Southington

Darryl G
10-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Nice Photoshop edits...I dind't know there was a snow effect you could add. We all know that it doesn't snow in October in CT!!!

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 03:11 PM
I moved the trucks and with in the hour I got a 300 pound branch lying almost exactly where my 2011 ram 4500 was parked. Interestingly I got 2 shots I can take now where it shows tree tops on the ground there were not there in my first pics.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Nice Photoshop edits...I dind't know there was a snow effect you could add. We all know that it doesn't snow in October in CT!!!

Worse then that I'm about 3-4 miles from the ocean for us this unheard of we typically get our first snow 1-2 weeks into Dec.

Darryl G
10-29-2011, 03:14 PM
Dang...good thing you moved them. I'm still cleaning up my property from Hurricane Irene. I don't need anything else down...except maybe those widow makers that are still hung up. Yeah I'm over by Old Saybrook about 1 mile inland.

soloscaperman
10-29-2011, 03:29 PM
I live close to you and lets just say we will have a lot of tree work :-) I hooked up my fisher plow within mins and everything is good to go. Went to home depot and some roads were closed already!

DiSantolandscaping
10-29-2011, 03:36 PM
i just got a call already from somone new who wants plowing done but i only snowblow so i called them back and said ill snowblow it if your interested call me back and ill come give an estimate, but people go crazy when its supposed to snow.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 03:42 PM
The drive pic and the front lawn after my new tree work.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 03:44 PM
These ones if already beat the snow off of once trying not to lose the yellow birch our red maple or our viburnum

DiSantolandscaping
10-29-2011, 03:46 PM
id keep an eye open because that wasnt even much snow yet the more you get the more you might have to dodge trees. and power lines. there calling for power outages here now saying that with all the rain weve had plus this heavey snow it could topple over hole tree from the roots up.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 03:46 PM
The 89 gmc is going to have to fend for herself as well as the 3 trailers iv got no more room to hide them away from the trees.

MOW ED
10-29-2011, 04:37 PM
Ouch that makes me want to curl up and cry:cry:. I have had it happen to me in the spring but never this early in the fall. We are still 2 weeks behind with the leaves and it makes sence because the spring came about 3 weeks later than usual. Still lots of pennies on the trees before snow time. I hope to get most of them but there is always April.

FYS777
10-29-2011, 07:12 PM
awesome now you have more work all of a sudden doing storm clean up and snow removal, then when thats melts, clean ups as well, this happened to us i think last year. had 10 inches of wet snow the middle of Oct, with leaves on the trees, bout shut the whole city down, because of broken trees, we are about two weeks latter this season for dowing clean ups as well.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-29-2011, 08:11 PM
awesome now you have more work all of a sudden doing storm clean up and snow removal, then when thats melts, clean ups as well, this happened to us i think last year. had 10 inches of wet snow the middle of Oct, with leaves on the trees, bout shut the whole city down, because of broken trees, we are about two weeks latter this season for dowing clean ups as well.

I was planning on mowing 2 more weeks on the high growth lawns and to keep up with the leaves. It is a significant cut in income but I expected to bring in 7k on those late season cuts I doubt the tree work will equal that loss it seldom does. Even the hurricane Irene clean ups only made us about 3k if its really bad they have to call a tree service. Instead we get all the nasty ones that require dragging the stuff up hill 200 feet to the trucks it never fails on that.

I did a cool hedge job 2 weeks back 110 feet had to saw the privets to a height of 3 feet. Made a grand so far sounds good but they were all 20-30 feet tall and there was about 10 for every foot so I cut down about 1100 trees that day and filled 3 and half dump trucks. Its honest money and I was free that day but I would much rather be mowing and the real sad part was the 3 of us still made less that day then my partner out by himself doing his 5th round of fertilizer.

This is going to be a long night the trees are covered in snow still not real accumulation but now the winds are here and its howling outside I am afraid what I will see down in the morning.

Earlier I unhooked a trailer to move a truck and while I was jacking the trailer 50 ft away from me a tree lost its top and it came crashing to the ground.

cslawnandlandscape
10-29-2011, 09:14 PM
Yea the winds are howling over here too. My truck is surrounded by downed branches and limbs, with nowhere to go she's gonna have to fend for herself till morning.

Funny thing is, if I would have left it where I normally park it, half of a tree would be across the hood and some right about now.

Darryl G
10-29-2011, 11:16 PM
Not so bad here...not really sticking to the trees much. Looks like it's wrapping up. We got snow way sooner than they predicted but then it changed back to sleet and rain for a while. Light snow now. Was only windy for about an hour.

I checked the national radar and man it looks weird down south...wth...blotches of rain...don't think I've ever seen that before.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-30-2011, 07:34 AM
We dodged a bullet here got about 2 inches total and some parts were warm enough not to get any accumulation. Other then some tree tops all is well and with any luck it will be melted by mid week and back to mowing. Best of all kept my power unlike Irene where we went 83 hours with out. I heard the northern hills of the state got as much as 20 inches. Hopefully the rest of you pulled out of this alright way to early to have the season ended we normally go to mid Dec.

yardguy28
10-30-2011, 12:04 PM
After doing landscaping for 23 years I knew when we had a real wet summer with virtually no drought skips it was blessing with a huge price tag. Iv been around long enough to know that means the leaves would last 2-4 weeks longer and push the fall clean ups back till late Nov early Dec. And of course that's an issue because then you can lose all of them with a freak snow storm. Well funny we should bring that up as I look out at 1 inch flakes passing my window. It's Oct 29th half my trees are still green still mowing with 2 weeks of mowing left due to the conditions. And they have this as a 4-6 inch storm starting around midnight trouble is the rain turned to snow 12 hour early. So now I am looking at probably a foot of snow before Nov. Granted they aren't predicting that yet but one thing you learn as a landscaper is how to read maps and I am better at it then the weathermen. So assuming the worse and we do get a foot how long to melt off since they have been off on the temp predictions by 10 degrees the entire week.

And so now I am contemplating the reality that I am owed 40k I am broke but just paid about 20k in bills a few nights ago and now may be losing the last 30-35k of the season can I stretch that till March that is the question. And course this is what always trips up the newbies is budgeting through the lean parts. All I can say is next spring would be insane if we miss 100 fall clean ups then add in the spring only guys and I could be looking at 40k in spring clean ups instead of the normal 16-18k. I guess its never a dull moment and I might have just gotten out of designing a box for the new truck for now.

your kind of funny........

you talk about being broke but yet say that newbies get tripped up not budgeting for the leans times. so does this mean your a newbie, because if your broke it means you didn't budget for the lean times.

i could go a whole year without making a single penny, any time of the year. i always keep a surplus of money in the bank.

Patriot Services
10-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Then there are the guys that are living with their parents.
Posted via Mobile Device

yardguy28
10-30-2011, 12:19 PM
Then there are the guys that are living with their parents.
Posted via Mobile Device

in this economy you find more and more people living with there parents.

i don't see anything wrong with it. it's not like its a free ride. well for some it might be but not all.

i live with my parents. but everything is split 50/50. i pay rent, utilities, groceries, phone, interenet, cable, etc. i also do things like dishes, cooking, taking out the trash.

it's just like when i lived in my 1 bedroom apartment. the only difference is my parents are here.

weeze
10-30-2011, 03:15 PM
just wait til the snow melts then do leaf cleanup?

Kelly's Landscaping
10-30-2011, 04:42 PM
your kind of funny........

you talk about being broke but yet say that newbies get tripped up not budgeting for the leans times. so does this mean your a newbie, because if your broke it means you didn't budget for the lean times.

i could go a whole year without making a single penny, any time of the year. i always keep a surplus of money in the bank.

You ignored the part where I paid out 20k in bills that very week. Being broke means different things to different people and companies. To me it means I have less then 10k in the business account and can cover payroll and weekly expenses for 2 weeks or less.

That said if we had shut down then payroll stops and then we can squeak by on about 3-4k a month. You also didn't grasp that its the end of the month I have about 17k in bills I haven't gotten yet and at least another 25k to be billed out for the month of Oct hence I rounded that to 40k owed.

As far as personal money goes me and my partner have over a 100k cash between us but that's our money and we do not intend to reinvest it. So I guess all that leaves us with is your forth coming apology. :)

Ps the point of the thread was the possibility we could have to stretch our finances for 5 months and there are very few here that can are you saying your among them.

yardguy28
10-31-2011, 08:09 PM
You ignored the part where I paid out 20k in bills that very week. Being broke means different things to different people and companies. To me it means I have less then 10k in the business account and can cover payroll and weekly expenses for 2 weeks or less.

That said if we had shut down then payroll stops and then we can squeak by on about 3-4k a month. You also didn't grasp that its the end of the month I have about 17k in bills I haven't gotten yet and at least another 25k to be billed out for the month of Oct hence I rounded that to 40k owed.

As far as personal money goes me and my partner have over a 100k cash between us but that's our money and we do not intend to reinvest it. So I guess all that leaves us with is your forth coming apology. :)

Ps the point of the thread was the possibility we could have to stretch our finances for 5 months and there are very few here that can are you saying your among them.

there will be no forth coming apology......

and yes i guess i am saying i can stretch my finances a whole year.

i'm saying if starting tomorrow i didn't receive another check from another client for a whole year, i can afford to keep working, keep up on my business expenses and my personal expenses and not even come close to broke.

i currently am solo but if the way you are running your business with crews is how that goes for most everyone with crews i think i'll be staying solo.

don't get me wrong i'm not trying to insult you or the way you run your business. i'm just trying to say i don't wanna be in a situation where i need to shut down the business to be able to cover the expenses of the business or only have enough in the business for 2 weeks of payroll, etc.

the end of the month never scares me, never bothers me, never is a burden on me. the end of the month for me comes and goes just like any other day of the year. when i get a bill in the mail i just write the check for it, get it mailed and move on. i do this with both business expenses and personal expenses. i look at my bank statements maybe once or twice a year.

again i'm not trying to insult or critisize you, so hopefully i'm not coming across that way cause i'm not trying to.

and yes broke does mean different things to different people. so yes i see where your coming from.

p.s. i never have less than 20k in my business accounts.......:dancing:

soloscaperman
10-31-2011, 10:25 PM
I was plowing in Shelton and Monroe and they got 8 inches of snow!

Kelly's Landscaping
10-31-2011, 11:20 PM
there will be no forth coming apology......

and yes i guess i am saying i can stretch my finances a whole year.

i'm saying if starting tomorrow i didn't receive another check from another client for a whole year, i can afford to keep working, keep up on my business expenses and my personal expenses and not even come close to broke.

i currently am solo but if the way you are running your business with crews is how that goes for most everyone with crews i think i'll be staying solo.

don't get me wrong i'm not trying to insult you or the way you run your business. i'm just trying to say i don't wanna be in a situation where i need to shut down the business to be able to cover the expenses of the business or only have enough in the business for 2 weeks of payroll, etc.

the end of the month never scares me, never bothers me, never is a burden on me. the end of the month for me comes and goes just like any other day of the year. when i get a bill in the mail i just write the check for it, get it mailed and move on. i do this with both business expenses and personal expenses. i look at my bank statements maybe once or twice a year.

again i'm not trying to insult or critisize you, so hopefully i'm not coming across that way cause i'm not trying to.

and yes broke does mean different things to different people. so yes i see where your coming from.

p.s. i never have less than 20k in my business accounts.......:dancing:

The solo guys always have a way of offending those of us with employees. It's as if you can not comprehend what actual business expenses are.


A lot of what I said went over your head I never said I had to shut down my business in order to cover expenses. The point was we do not do snow work so we shut down because of the weather for 8-10 weeks every year that's normal and that's our vacation time sorta the reason many of us get into this. That's the lean times I referred too but if the snow came 2 months earlier then normal and that shut down time became 4-5 months that's not a lean time that is an unforeseeable disaster. Even so I would weather it and your cheap shots were uncalled for and rather petty on that subject.

As for you having 20k at all times in the business account that is nice to have be interesting how well you would do with 4 trucks and 3500 a week in payroll. 20k doesn't last long then and while we seldom have much more then 20-25 k in the bank we often deposit 15-20k in a single deposit that's something you wouldn't know about as a solo guy.

Now you may not be trying to insult me now but you were definitely trying on your first post to me. And I am still trying to understand why you would do that to someone who was watching tree branches falling all over the place as it snowed for 15 hours. Would you make cracks at a landscaper that was wondering how he was going to recover because a tornado just went through his property.

Kelly's Landscaping
10-31-2011, 11:39 PM
I was plowing in Shelton and Monroe and they got 8 inches of snow!

Whats the snow like up there I think we will have most of it melted tomorrow and I expect to start back up mowing in Wednesday. All that storm did was cost me my months target by screwing us out of our last day of mowing for the week but if that's all it did I will live with it because it could of been a 100 times worse.

yardguy28
11-01-2011, 05:03 PM
The solo guys always have a way of offending those of us with employees. It's as if you can not comprehend what actual business expenses are.


A lot of what I said went over your head I never said I had to shut down my business in order to cover expenses. The point was we do not do snow work so we shut down because of the weather for 8-10 weeks every year that's normal and that's our vacation time sorta the reason many of us get into this. That's the lean times I referred too but if the snow came 2 months earlier then normal and that shut down time became 4-5 months that's not a lean time that is an unforeseeable disaster. Even so I would weather it and your cheap shots were uncalled for and rather petty on that subject.

As for you having 20k at all times in the business account that is nice to have be interesting how well you would do with 4 trucks and 3500 a week in payroll. 20k doesn't last long then and while we seldom have much more then 20-25 k in the bank we often deposit 15-20k in a single deposit that's something you wouldn't know about as a solo guy.

Now you may not be trying to insult me now but you were definitely trying on your first post to me. And I am still trying to understand why you would do that to someone who was watching tree branches falling all over the place as it snowed for 15 hours. Would you make cracks at a landscaper that was wondering how he was going to recover because a tornado just went through his property.

we are gonna have to agree to disagree because i wasn't really trying to insult you on the first post either.

sure i thought your first post sounded crazy at first and i probably came across the wrong way. after all you said it best. everyone has a different idea of what broke is. and i replied based off of my idea of being broke.

as for 20k and 4 trucks and all that. if i were in that situation i'd have more than 20k in the bank.

but i'm sure you will take this with a grain a salt as you should because i am only a solo operator and i will admit i've never run a business with multipul employees so i'm sure it's much harder than i realize. although i do realize it is hard, hence why i'm solo.

building my business to multipul employees is not something i'm interested anymore. i was at one time, but i don't want all the headaches that go along with it.

Hoy landscaping
11-01-2011, 05:43 PM
i was thinking and hoping for no leaf season. i hate leaves!

Darryl G
11-01-2011, 07:04 PM
The point was we do not do snow work so we shut down because of the weather for 8-10 weeks every year that's normal and that's our vacation time sorta the reason many of us get into this.


You must be doing something wrong if you can't afford to have your crews sitting around and playing cards for 8 to 10 weeks on the payroll. Sounds like you need to get your excrement consolidated. :laugh:

Kelly's Landscaping
11-02-2011, 07:10 PM
First day back to work on lawns since that storm. Nice warm day too were going to try to mow till next week then hopefully these leaves start falling. I am seeing some maple trees with no sign of fall color yet and its Nov 2nd not sure what variety they are but the oaks aren't turning either. Nor am I sure what to make of this season for one thing its extremely late but at the same time we have lost a ton of leaves in the hurricane and to some fungus kicking the crap out of the sugar maples. I guess we will build the leave box this coming week on the gmc and that leaves designing a new one for my new truck. That should speed things up having 2 leaf trucks on the crew this season. The ability to keep going and not have to consider if there is going to be room and if your make the dump site before it closes will be a massive improvement on efficiency. My guess Ill be able to get an extra 4-8 clean ups a week done that we normally have to pass on because its too late in the day and were already too full.