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View Full Version : Backflow Devices Required in California for Residential?


JimLewis
11-01-2011, 02:34 PM
One of my employees came up from CA a few years ago. In a Manager's meeting today we were discussing irrigation, proper zoning methods, different kinds of backflow devices, etc.

He said that where he came from (San Diego area) that they never had to install backflow devices for residential irrigation systems. It was only required for commercial jobs. Is that true? I thought pretty much every major city or county in the U.S. had backflow requirements for residential irrigation systems. ESPECIALLY California, I would think. They are the world leaders in regulation of any kind...

Anyone know if this is true?

hamham
11-01-2011, 03:16 PM
State code is 603.4.6 on page 140

http://www.iapmo.org/2010%20California%20Plumbing%20Code/Chapter%2006.pdf

Kiril
11-01-2011, 03:50 PM
California Code of Regulations
Title 23. Waters
Division 2. Department of Water Resources
Chapter 2.7. Model Water Efficient Landscape Ordinance


§ 492.7 Irrigation Design Plan.
.
.
.
(F) Backflow prevention devices shall be required to protect the water supply from contamination by the irrigation system. A project applicant shall refer to the applicable local agency code (i.e., public health) for additional backflow prevention requirements.

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 04:14 PM
most any state with a building code is going to have requirements to protect the potable water in a building

JimLewis
11-01-2011, 06:17 PM
I don't want to read page 220 of some long PDF Form. I don't care to go read some state code. I just wanted a simple yes or no answer.

Are backflow devices required when you install an irrigation system on a residential property in most major cities in CA?

Does anyone have a simple yes or no answer for that? I'm just curious. I'm not going to be installing ANYTHING in CA, EVER. I was just curious if my employee was correct or if the company he was working for was just doing it wrong.

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 06:31 PM
Figure your employee was blowing it out his ass - California has been requiring lawn-sprinkler backflow prevention for a very long time, even in San Diego county. They have the same anti-syphon valve setups as elsewhere in the state.

AI Inc
11-01-2011, 06:37 PM
. They have the same anti-syphon valve setups as elsewhere in the state.

Is that all they require, or a BF in addition to ASV's? Maybe thats what the employee was talking about.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Figure your employee was blowing it out his ass - California has been requiring lawn-sprinkler backflow prevention for a very long time, even in San Diego county.
Ditto,tell the new guy he's full of it. The Western States, including British Columbia and Alberta, all take their regs from California. I believe it's U.C. Davis that sets the specs for all facets of cross-connection, INCLUDING resi.

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 06:46 PM
California has their own "alphabet-soup" standards organization, but I don't know if neighboring states switched away from older standards, like those of ASSE. Either way gets you the protection.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 06:50 PM
California has their own "alphabet-soup" standards organization, but I don't know if neighboring states switched away from older standards, like those of ASSE. Either way gets you the protection.

And both ways should be enforced; therein lies the rub. :hammerhead:

AI Inc
11-01-2011, 06:52 PM
Do they have to be installed backwards, or is that up to the installer?

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 06:56 PM
Do they have to be installed backwards, or is that up to the installer?

Let me check the Suffolk Co. regs, I'll get back to you. :rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 06:58 PM
Places I've worked have mistakenly allowed an antisyphon valve serve as whole-system protection, with regular zone valves downstream. Those will be places where future restrictions on ASV use will be written into local ordinances, as if being hardasses makes up for previously slacking off.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 07:04 PM
Any "device" that cannot be tested, is not permitted, as far as I know in most developed western States. Not enough water people know the difference between "backflow" and "backsyphonage", both of which have to be taken into consideration when choosing a proper "assembly".

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
11-01-2011, 07:11 PM
i don't want to read page 220 of some long pdf form. I don't care to go read some state code. I just wanted a simple yes or no answer.

are backflow devices required when you install an irrigation system on a residential property in most major cities in ca?

does anyone have a simple yes or no answer for that? I'm just curious. I'm not going to be installing anything in ca, ever. I was just curious if my employee was correct or if the company he was working for was just doing it wrong.

YES!!!!!!!

In some cities (like the one I live in) you must provide a device for meter protection as well. I have a device for irrigation and a device for the house and a device for the fire sprinklers in the house.

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 07:13 PM
yes!!!!!!!(and he meant every one of those seven exclamation points:))

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
11-01-2011, 07:17 PM
(and he meant every one of those seven exclamation points:))

I was just trying to get to 10 characters.....

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 07:53 PM
YES!!!!!!!

In some cities (like the one I live in) you must provide a device for meter protection as well. I have a device for irrigation and a device for the house and a device for the fire sprinklers in the house.

Get the nomenclature right, Dan. A "device" is non-testable, and only idiots permit them. What you (hopefully) meant was an "assembly", which can be tested and, depending on the little Nazi water purveyors, will be or be not permitted. I do hope your fire-line is not a "device". :cry:

S.O.Contracting
11-01-2011, 07:58 PM
Any "device" that cannot be tested, is not permitted, as far as I know in most developed western States. Not enough water people know the difference between "backflow" and "backsyphonage", both of which have to be taken into consideration when choosing a proper "assembly".

I hope you meant backpressure. Both are forms of backflow. Don't want yourself in with those water people that don't know the difference.

Wet_Boots
11-01-2011, 08:04 PM
Get the nomenclature right, Dan. A "device" is non-testable, and only idiots permit them. What you (hopefully) meant was an "assembly", which can be tested and, depending on the little Nazi water purveyors, will be or be not permitted. I do hope your fire-line is not a "device". :cry:Purveyors are happy with a "device" like a dual check valve at the meter, because it is only a backup, and not a primary means of protection. Building codes do not permit contamination of the potable water supply, if they say anything at all about cross-connection.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 08:07 PM
I hope you meant backpressure. Both are forms of backflow. Don't want yourself in with those water people that don't know the difference.

At least someone caught my screw-up. :clapping:

Kiril
11-01-2011, 08:36 PM
I don't want to read page 220 of some long PDF Form. I don't care to go read some state code. I just wanted a simple yes or no answer.

Are backflow devices required when you install an irrigation system on a residential property in most major cities in CA?

It is a state law Jim .... what do you think the answer is? That said, a "properly installed" ASV is what you typically see in residential around my parts and this does satisfy state code requirements.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 08:45 PM
Jim's a piece of work: asks a question and some well-meaning guys post answers and he gets pissed off? Boy, he sure must be busy waxing that big red truck of his. :dizzy:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
11-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Get the nomenclature right, Dan. A "device" is non-testable, and only idiots permit them. What you (hopefully) meant was an "assembly", which can be tested and, depending on the little Nazi water purveyors, will be or be not permitted. I do hope your fire-line is not a "device". :cry:

I think you have too much time on your hands to nitpick posts here. Put down the bong and go wax your motorhome or something! :hammerhead:

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 09:12 PM
I think you have too much time on your hands to nitpick posts here. Put down the bong and go wax your motorhome or something! :hammerhead:

What's a bong?

DanaMac
11-01-2011, 09:16 PM
What's a bong?

You're too young to know. Don't worry about it.

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 09:59 PM
I think you have too much time on your hands to nitpick posts here. Put down the bong and go wax your motorhome or something! :hammerhead:

If you think my post was directed at you, Don, you're wrong. The pups need to know the method of communication. I, for one, could give a rat about you or what-the-heck-is-his-name up in Oregon that drop in whenever you damn well feel like it and pontificate to the rest of us who are trying to help.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
11-01-2011, 10:16 PM
If you think my post was directed at you, Don, you're wrong. The pups need to know the method of communication. I, for one, could give a rat about you or what-the-heck-is-his-name up in Oregon that drop in whenever you damn well feel like it and pontificate to the rest of us who are trying to help.


Mikey.... just so you know (because I'm sure that you can't remember due to your advanced age) my name is actually Dan, not "Don". Secondly, I don't pontificate to anyone here anymore than your or your buddy Kiril do. And third, did it ever dawn on you that the reason that I "drop in whenever I damn well feel like" is because, unlike you Mikey, I actually have a business that I run which keeps me quite busy? I guess what I am really trying to say is blow it out your ass buddy!

Mike Leary
11-01-2011, 10:29 PM
I guess what I am really trying to say is blow it out your ass buddy!

Geez, Don, did you ever figure that others before you had a business to run also, and might have learned just a TAD to pass on? Thanks for the info about the new 1800, though. *trucewhiteflag*

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-01-2011, 11:12 PM
Device...assembly...all doodads to me

JimLewis
11-02-2011, 01:11 AM
YES!!!!!!!

Awesome. That's what I thought. Thank you.

I see nothing has changed in this forum. Thanks for those who did honestly try to help though. Now go on and fight among yourselves. Don't let me get in your way. I'm outta here. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
11-02-2011, 08:47 AM
...........Don't let me get in your way. I'm outta here. :laugh:you can never really leave....

"One of us. One of us."

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9304/freaks.jpg

Sprinkus
11-02-2011, 10:24 PM
I still find it hard to believe that the question of backflows not being required for residential in CA was even asked here. :rolleyes:

Mike Leary
11-02-2011, 10:49 PM
As ROTAR would say, "how sad, truly sad."

gusbuster
11-03-2011, 01:15 AM
Jim,
as what was said earlier, think your employee was talking about how CA is king of the asvs. Though now even my own city is going to require back flow device other than asv's for the simple fact that a lot of idiots put the asv's at bottom of a grade or in a valve box because they don't want to see the valves.

My favorite is there is a develolpment in South west section of Stockton. Not one house has an isolation valve (simple gate or ball valve).

john