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bradsmowing
11-06-2011, 10:01 AM
Does anyone put rye grass seed down for there customers in the winter I have been doing it for 4 years make the lawns look great all winter long.

Florida Gardener
11-06-2011, 10:10 AM
Does anyone put rye grass seed down for there customers in the winter I have been doing it for 4 years make the lawns look great all winter long.

I did it on a couple of St. Aug lawns last winter that have patchy CG areas.

A lot of guys(mainly on the high-end homes) put it down on Zoysia and Bermuda lawns.

Landscape Poet
11-06-2011, 10:25 AM
Does anyone put rye grass seed down for there customers in the winter I have been doing it for 4 years make the lawns look great all winter long.

Easy service that you can make quick money at for sure. I have done it in the past and most likely do some this year again for patchy lawns.

Just make sure you do not go too heavy as you main turf will be fighting for the same resources after it comes out of dormancy.

zturncutter
11-06-2011, 03:41 PM
Also make sure you are getting paid for the extra cuts it will require during the winter.

RigglePLC
11-06-2011, 09:51 PM
And...be sure to offer (as an extra cost option), to kill the rye with a chemical in spring, so as to allow the bermuda and SA to recover easily, and without damage. I am 15 hours drive from you so I don't know the chemicals needed.

zturncutter
11-06-2011, 10:05 PM
And...be sure to offer (as an extra cost option), to kill the rye with a chemical in spring, so as to allow the bermuda and SA to recover easily, and without damage. I am 15 hours drive from you so I don't know the chemicals needed.

Really no need to do that, it dies very quickly as the temps rise in March and April.

bradsmowing
11-06-2011, 10:16 PM
ya it dies off by itself i think it make the lawn for the winter time ill post some picture as soon as my lawn starts coming in

Ric
11-06-2011, 10:23 PM
Really no need to do that, it dies very quickly as the temps rise in March and April.

Is that both Perennial and Annual Rye that dies in March???

Fl-landscape has both a slit seeder and a Hydro-seeder. In winter he has also planted Fescue in the winter. He should be back today from his frozen hunting trip in Maine. Maybe he will weight in.


.

zturncutter
11-06-2011, 10:30 PM
:waving:Annual:waving:

StihlMechanic
11-07-2011, 01:31 AM
I plant gulf annual rye on bermuda and zoysia lawns, never SA.

Plantculture
11-07-2011, 07:54 AM
Will be planting perennial Rye this week at a stable that is occupied Jan - April.
Looks great, but is a N hog so constant feeding is required or else it gets rust fungus pretty bad. It starts to check out in late april-may. It hangs on longer if kept moist/shade.
I don't like to overseed St A, because the rye gives too much competition.

corey4671
11-07-2011, 08:26 AM
How many lbs per k do you guys seed annual ryegrass at?
Posted via Mobile Device

Ric
11-07-2011, 08:31 AM
Will be planting perennial Rye this week at a stable that is occupied Jan - April.
Looks great, but is a N hog so constant feeding is required or else it gets rust fungus pretty bad. It starts to check out in late april-may. It hangs on longer if kept moist/shade.
I don't like to overseed St A, because the rye gives too much competition.

I have not had a lot of Over seed experience. Our St Augustine turf stays pretty green all winter long. We have a year round growing season. I have heard that 4 pound of Rye per thousand sq ft is the over seed rate that doesn't chock out the Perennial turf.

Years ago when I lived in Louisiana and I did Over seed my pasture with Feed Oats not Seed Oats. Feed Oats will germinate about 65% and Seed Oats about 85% so there was no advantage to buying Seed Oats. I used standard Race Track Oats which means they are clean oats. Cost wise Oats were a great saving over Rye and my horses Ate it the same as Rye. I never fertilized the Oats but then I had Gumbo Mud and didn't fertilize any thing. BTW Deer loved the Oats better than Rye. PS.. Oats are more yellow in color than Rye.

Turf Dawg
11-07-2011, 10:40 AM
Kind of off subject, but how much seed can a bird eat? I had one of the banks call after I put down rye and asked if I had put bird seed on their lawn because there had been birds everywhere. Well Sat I saw what they were talking about. We had to put out 11 yards of mulch and the whole time we were there hundreds of birds were all over the place. It just got me to wondering in a weeks time how much of the seed could they eat?

Ric
11-07-2011, 12:20 PM
Kind of off subject, but how much seed can a bird eat? I had one of the banks call after I put down rye and asked if I had put bird seed on their lawn because there had been birds everywhere. Well Sat I saw what they were talking about. We had to put out 11 yards of mulch and the whole time we were there hundreds of birds were all over the place. It just got me to wondering in a weeks time how much of the seed could they eat?

Turf

I might be wrong but I believe Birds eat their own weight each day.

In Edit

Bird Control is a skill all by it's self. Just the other night was a story on the News about Birds roosting on a Telephone Tower. The problem was all attemps to chase them had not worked. They even had a Horn go off every 15 minute that drove the town's people Crazy. Nothing seems to work. I know this small town and it has had that problem for years.

corey4671
11-07-2011, 11:03 PM
I have an account that I overseeded it with ryegrass the day I aerated it. Got a great stand in some spots and not so great in others. I've been hesitant to use ryegrass simply because the few times I've overseeded with it, I've gotten patchy results.

Plantculture
11-08-2011, 08:44 AM
I have an account that I overseeded it with ryegrass the day I aerated it. Got a great stand in some spots and not so great in others. I've been hesitant to use ryegrass simply because the few times I've overseeded with it, I've gotten patchy results.

What was your base turf? how old was the seed? What was the day and night temp when you seeded? How much did you water? Did it get pithium? What soil prep did you do besides verifying?

Ric
11-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Will be planting perennial Rye this week at a stable that is occupied Jan - April.
Looks great, but is a N hog so constant feeding is required or else it gets rust fungus pretty bad. It starts to check out in late april-may. It hangs on longer if kept moist/shade.
I don't like to overseed St A, because the rye gives too much competition.

Plantculture

I have a customer who's daughter is having a wedding in March at his home. His turf is the typical Bahia weed patch we get here because of our high pH soils. He is planning on over seeding with Rye just for the wedding. He really isn't concerned with recovery of his turf. He lives on acreage and is happy with green weeds except for this wedding in his yard with Tents etc.

So Not having a lot of experience with over seeding, are you applying heavy N because of heavy forage by the horses?? Or will I be able to keep perennial rye green with Iron and Nitrogen?? Is Rust fungus typical of Perennial? or are you causing it by high Nitrogen and needing to apply more N to grow out of the Rust caused by the N? In other words are you causing the rust problem by trying to feed the horses??

tillerstick
11-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Ric,

On your selection of rye. You may want to try an intermediate rye. It grows a little taller than the perennial, so it is better seen over taller established turf. It is also a lot less expensive per pound. Make sure to get a good clean variety such as Froghair, or Lesco's Midway. Want to make sure that weed seed is not in the bag.

Rye is also a water hog, so if there are still major watering restrictions in FL, be careful.

Ric
11-08-2011, 11:09 AM
Ric,

On your selection of rye. You may want to try an intermediate rye. It grows a little taller than the perennial, so it is better seen over taller established turf. It is also a lot less expensive per pound. Make sure to get a good clean variety such as Froghair, or Lesco's Midway. Want to make sure that weed seed is not in the bag.

Rye is also a water hog, so if there are still major watering restrictions in FL, be careful.

Tillerstick (Sail Boater??)

Thanks for the education. I never heard of intermediate rye.

The problem here is the customer is getting his seed from a golf course. A lot of it is last years seed that wasn't used. Wedding are super expensive and he is trying to cut costs as much as possible. I have a bunch of Brass impact sprinklers from my old nursery that can be hooked up by hoses. The customer has a well so Watering costs and restrictions are no problem since he has 5 acres agriculture zoned. However Fertilizer costs are a major concern as is any money he must take out of his pocket. After this guy contacted from a Networking lead, I found out I was friends with his older brother way back in the day. Therefore He is getting special pricing or friendship deal.

BTW I already burned off the existing weeds so there should be very little competition. There shouldn't be a need for a Higher growing rye.

Plantculture
11-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Ric,
I like the Perennial rye because of the very dark green color and finer texture than intermediate.
In regards to rust, Its shows up on the areas that are lean on N.
Same idea as managing dollar spot. Last year i got a little lean and i would notice my shoes would be orange after walking around. Avoid moisture stress and N deficiency. In our climate, it should basically be always growing and dark green.

I don't apply N to push growth for the horses although they munch it down to fairway height if you don't rotate where they graze. These horses are show horses and are not roaming a pasture. They are fed like kings in their stables.Since I can't apply any herbicides or fungicides, due to not wanting to take any sort of risk or being blamed for any sort of illness in a horse that cost 7 figures, I seed at a pretty heavy rate to reduce weed competition, do my best to get good seed to soil contact, and water the piss out of it the first 4 days to be sure I get good germination. Then back off pretty quick. I feed it after it gets a couple leaves and mow it once it gets to be about 4-5 inches and slowly lower the height so that you don't rip the seedlings.

tillerstick
11-08-2011, 01:34 PM
Ric,

Correct on the sailor. That's the reason we escaped Atlanta for the GA coast.

When are you planning on seeding? Rye germinates very quickly but does take a while to have a stand that can handle traffic.

I would recommend using Umaxx 47-0-0 once the turf is up. At a pound on N per thousand, you will get 23500 square feet from one 50# bag. This will also give you a 12-16 week release. For the money and longevity, it is pretty cost effective. It also breaks down very quickly so you are not sucking up the granules if you/they are bagging this area. I do recommend bagging rye as it is a pretty aggressive grower with a lot of clipping.

Hope this helps.

Fair Winds,
Kevin

Plantculture
11-08-2011, 07:17 PM
Ric,
Be careful with using old seed. I put some out 2 weeks ago at my house, it rained for 3 days straight and got no germination.

Ric
11-08-2011, 09:54 PM
Ric,
Be careful with using old seed. I put some out 2 weeks ago at my house, it rained for 3 days straight and got no germination.

Plant

This is a learning Experience for me. We are far enough South that Over Seeding is not real popular.

The customer is getting all the seed for free from the Golf Course. I really don't have a say in what he uses. My part was Killing out the weeds, Fire Ants and two Feral Bee colonies. Fl Landscape is doing the slit seeding but the customer is supplying the seed and what every fertilizer is used. The game plan is to use the new seed on the Party area and the old seed else where until used up. We are waiting for the Golf Course to finish doing their over seeding before getting the leftover seed.

The Customer has a Shooting Range and part of our deal for doing the work at cost is the right to target shoot any Sunday. I sighted in my old 22's and Fl Landscape shot his new 9 MM that is very actuate.


Kevin

Many Years ago I had a Flying Dutchman. It is one of the most complicated One design Sail Boats ever made. I could adjust the Genoa Cunningham or any number of sail tweaking while hiking port or starboard. My boat weighted 265 pounds and had 395 sq ft of sail with the Chute up. I never mastered the art of sailing, but enjoyed it for many, many years. The Olympics dropped the Flying Dutchman in favor of the 505 and I believe the Dutchman is not real popular any more.

.

tillerstick
11-10-2011, 10:41 AM
Ric,

Never have had the privilege to sail a Flying Dutchman. Have seen them and they look like a lot of fun. I am currently restoring a Kittiwake 23. She is an ALberg design. Full keeled, very similar to Cape Dory.

Ric
11-10-2011, 11:58 AM
Ric,

Never have had the privilege to sail a Flying Dutchman. Have seen them and they look like a lot of fun. I am currently restoring a Kittiwake 23. She is an ALberg design. Full keeled, very similar to Cape Dory.

Kevin

I believe the South Coast 23 was a Albery Design also. While I have never sailed a Kittiwake 23 I have sail a South Coast 23 many times. The performance level will never meet a Dutchman but it is a lot closer than many other boats. It has been many years since I have swung from a Trapeze wire in white capped water. The Dutchman Planed at 14 knots of wind. I used to one man my Dutchman from the wire with a Tiller extension. I had to be real careful not to capsize one man because righting a Dutchman with the sails up is a hard two man job and impossible for me alone.

I am into Motor Boats now. I have 4 boats right now but only two have trailers or are actually being used. My bass boat and Aquatic spray boat are on trailers. I have a project small Pontoon Boat which is a Paddle wheel peddle driven. BTW I posted pictures of it in Off Topic. I just finished Cleaning it up. It had Cement splashed all over it. I am still looking for a way to power the Paddle Wheel. I don't plan to keep the Paddle wheel boat and hope to use it as Trade Material for some other project. I got to keep something to amuse me.

tillerstick
11-10-2011, 01:24 PM
The Kittiwake and the Southcoast are almost the exact same boat. Same mold for the hull. The Kitti has a little more teak on the exterior and the deck plan is slightly different.

Boats are a great and expensive hobby/obsession. I am in fert and chemical sales and hope to make the Kitti my office away from home this Spring.

Kevin

Ric
11-10-2011, 02:34 PM
The Kittiwake and the Southcoast are almost the exact same boat. Same mold for the hull. The Kitti has a little more teak on the exterior and the deck plan is slightly different.

Boats are a great and expensive hobby/obsession. I am in fert and chemical sales and hope to make the Kitti my office away from home this Spring.

Kevin

Kevin

Like I said that boat will never be the High performances of the Flying Dutchman Olympic Class One Design. But it does have better performance than most cabin boats. It is a very fine sailing boat and very sea worthy. I wouldn't be afraid to sail it to the Bahamas etc. I started with a Home made wooden Sail Fish off a set of plans. The boat was so heavy it couldn't go to wind. I then jumped a very big giant step to the Dutchman. After sailing the Dutchman for many years I still never mastered it.

PS. My Harbor is so shallow that full keel boats are not popular here. We have Two Identical upscale Sail Boat Canal Neighborhoods in my area. The single lot 80 X 120 Property values differences by a $ 100 K. The reason is the one neighborhood can't get deep draft boats to the Harbor during winter's lower tide levels. Summer boating for Deep Draft Boats is limited to high tide also.



Plantculture

This last spring I purchased a 15 Pound bag of Sahara Bermuda from Wally World for $ 42.00. Thinking I was getting a bargain now that Bermuda Seed is $ 4.00 a Pound. I don't think I got one seed to germinate. That kind of surprised me because it had a Nov of 2010 test date on it and I was planting it in June of 2011. Only thing I can think is Wally World stored the seed over the winter in a bad spot and it got cooked by high temperatures. Freezing would not have hurt it.



..

Landscape Poet
11-10-2011, 06:40 PM
Ric,

Rye is really simple - you will see you are overthinking this after your first application of good seed. You are not looking for year long results so simply broadcasting the seeds over and watering properly to keep the seeds moist and seven days later you will have a rye lawn. During this time of year in our area it does very very well especially once we are below the mid 80's.
Truthfully IMHO rather than trying to fight disease that may come along could prove more expensive than getting another bag of seed and repairing the areas as needed. Remember this lawn is ready in roughly 7 days.
My recommendations would be easy on the N since it is just for a 1 time event. This turf will grow like crazy during this time of year. You will get several inches of growth in a two week period if allowed to go that long. I would inform the owner that to keep it nice and tidy looking he will most likely need weekly mowing.

Last but not least - this turf stain much worse than most of our southern turfs. Clippings on any paved area will stain if stepped on prior to removing or if the mower tire runs over it before they are removed with the blower. This would be a big concern I think you should ensure the owner covers with the bride who I would presume would make a appearance in her white wedding gown - which of course cost a good amount of money - and I can almost assure you especially if the grass is freshly cut, it will stain that dress or any other material that is dragged across it.

corey4671
11-10-2011, 08:21 PM
What was your base turf? how old was the seed? What was the day and night temp when you seeded? How much did you water? Did it get pithium? What soil prep did you do besides verifying?

Water was just what it got from rainfall. Daytime was probably around 65-70 night time mid 40s. Seed was simply broadcasted. Base was mix of bermuda with minimal fescue. Some times I get a great stand others I get nothing. $*%@ grows great in the bed of my truck

ed2hess
11-10-2011, 08:47 PM
We are trying something for the first time regarding overseeding with rye. We can only water once a week so we waited until this week to plant the rye. We are going to use Hydretain the moisture manager to see what happens. In years past we had excellant rye when we could water at will and had mowing almost year round. Last year was first year for once a week watering and it took until late February for the yards to cover completely but it did come up nicely. We don't use any anual rye it grows way way tooo fast in the spring

quiet
11-10-2011, 11:35 PM
We are trying something for the first time regarding overseeding with rye. We can only water once a week so we waited until this week to plant the rye. We are going to use Hydretain the moisture manager to see what happens. In years past we had excellant rye when we could water at will and had mowing almost year round. Last year was first year for once a week watering and it took until late February for the yards to cover completely but it did come up nicely. We don't use any anual rye it grows way way tooo fast in the spring

I'm shaking my head as I write this, Ed. Our water situation here in the Austin area has been extremely critical for the past year, and it's getting even worse as we move into the typically very dry winter months. Lake Travis is at it's 3rd lowest level in history. And there's no TS Hermine in sight.

I think that winter overseeding and weekly irrigation in the winter is totally irresponsible.

TAMU advises people to water once per month in the winter - if no rainfall has occured. That's what I advise my customers every year, and I've never had a problem with dessication. Our clay soils hold water really well, particularly in winter when ET rates are so low.

And besides, it looks plain stupid to have a deep green lawn when everything else is brown.

Wonder why we have such strict watering rules? It's because of practices like these.

Turf Dawg
11-11-2011, 10:46 AM
I'm shaking my head as I write this, Ed. Our water situation here in the Austin area has been extremely critical for the past year, and it's getting even worse as we move into the typically very dry winter months. Lake Travis is at it's 3rd lowest level in history. And there's no TS Hermine in sight.

I think that winter overseeding and weekly irrigation in the winter is totally irresponsible.

TAMU advises people to water once per month in the winter - if no rainfall has occured. That's what I advise my customers every year, and I've never had a problem with dessication. Our clay soils hold water really well, particularly in winter when ET rates are so low.

And besides, it looks plain stupid to have a deep green lawn when everything else is brown.

Wonder why we have such strict watering rules? It's because of practices like these.

I know you and Mr Hess are farther south than me and have warmer temps, but in my area after I get the Rye to germ I sometimes cut the water off to the turf areas and just leave some of the annual color areas on. If we do not get any moisture I may run them once a month but generally I leave them off. Most of them stay pretty nice through this time without much maintenance so I do not feel the Rye is wasteing too much water. The only thing I am thinking I might quite overseeding is the Celebration Bermuda. The newer ones that have this type Bermuba do not seem to overseed worth a darn. I think it is because the way this stuff grows it is so dense that the seed does not have a chance, kind of like St Augustine.

ed2hess
11-13-2011, 06:39 PM
I'm shaking my head as I write this, Ed. Our water situation here in the Austin area has been extremely critical for the past year, and it's getting even worse as we move into the typically very dry winter months. Lake Travis is at it's 3rd lowest level in history. And there's no TS Hermine in sight.

I think that winter overseeding and weekly irrigation in the winter is totally irresponsible.

TAMU advises people to water once per month in the winter - if no rainfall has occured. That's what I advise my customers every year, and I've never had a problem with dessication. Our clay soils hold water really well, particularly in winter when ET rates are so low.

And besides, it looks plain stupid to have a deep green lawn when everything else is brown.

Wonder why we have such strict watering rules? It's because of practices like these.

We know the water rules and we are NOT going to water more than the one time allowed a week. One of the owners in our business is a full time irrigator and he has worked on getting all of our systems fixed to the point that there is little water run off. I doubt that there is another irrigator in this city that has done more to reduce water use over the last two years.
Now the lecture comes....I am so pissed off that our city officials and state officials are not doing anything to get us more water. Instead they want us to conserve our way out of the problem. Left to these fools they would let our nice green city go completely brown. TeeBone Pickens could build us a 8ft pipe line over to the Mississippi river and be done with all this dome and gloom about us running out of water. I hope that lake continues to drop and drop and drop maybe somethign will get done.

And if the rule changes so that we can't water at all them we STOP. You might want to take a look at your soil as to whether you stoppign of water now will not harm the bushes and trees. They were under heavy stress and with no rain they could die in the winter. And with no rain all winter the sod probably will die if we get heavy freezes. By the way welcome to lawn site didn't know you was in our area. We didn't plant but four hotel site and only because they insisted.....already lost one last week don't want to lose others.

quiet
11-13-2011, 07:22 PM
We know the water rules and we are NOT going to water more than the one time allowed a week. One of the owners in our business is a full time irrigator and he has worked on getting all of our systems fixed to the point that there is little water run off. I doubt that there is another irrigator in this city that has done more to reduce water use over the last two years.
Now the lecture comes....I am so pissed off that our city officials and state officials are not doing anything to get us more water. Instead they want us to conserve our way out of the problem. Left to these fools they would let our nice green city go completely brown. TeeBone Pickens could build us a 8ft pipe line over to the Mississippi river and be done with all this dome and gloom about us running out of water. I hope that lake continues to drop and drop and drop maybe somethign will get done.

And if the rule changes so that we can't water at all them we STOP. You might want to take a look at your soil as to whether you stoppign of water now will not harm the bushes and trees. They were under heavy stress and with no rain they could die in the winter. And with no rain all winter the sod probably will die if we get heavy freezes. By the way welcome to lawn site didn't know you was in our area. We didn't plant but four hotel site and only because they insisted.....already lost one last week don't want to lose others.

(sigh) Embarrassing. Just embarrassing.

Just keep wasting water, and blame the city officials because we're running low. And then cop an attitude like that.

Embarrassing.

Good luck, my friend.

corey4671
11-14-2012, 12:47 AM
Know this is an old thread, but here is the lawn that I said I thought I would get splotchy results from. This was the first cut of the 2012 season on February 16