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View Full Version : Ok Gun People, i need advice on new purchase


punt66
11-07-2011, 08:52 PM
I am in the market for an ar. I am willing to listen to suggestions. I am a hunter but i decided to purchase an ar or similiar to just have one. I dont know much about them as i have never been in the market for anything other then bolt action rifles. What should i look for and or stay away from? This is the only thing missing in my collection and i would like to round off my collection just in case armegedon is on its way :rolleyes: hahaa

I want reliability, ease of cleaning, and cheap ammo for this gun.

jkingrph
11-07-2011, 09:05 PM
You cannot go wrong with Colt. Not the cheapest thing out there, but they set the standard. I have a couple, and have also scratch built several by assembling components from various manufacturers to get what I wanted. Thats the beauty of the AR it is so modular that virtually any part will work in any other gun

The lowers I used in my builds were Rock River arms, not the most expensive but not cheap either. Quality seems fine, fit is tight with most uppers until they wear together with a bit of movement.

You can get cheap guns and good guns. Your best bet is to go over to http//www.ar15.com/, http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/forums.html, or
http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php, three good fourms with a lot of info on buying or building of these arms.

If you want the cheapest ammo stick with the 5.56 Nato (223 Rem) Make sure whatever you get is marked for 5.56 Nato ammo as they claim chamber is slightly different and it supposedly dangerous to shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223 Rem chamber. I have been doing this in a Remington bolt action rifle for 40 years without problems.

Have fun!

PROPERTYLAWNSERVICELLC
11-07-2011, 10:41 PM
IF you want a relible rifle useing the 223 have looked at the mini 14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14/index.html

the Ar seems more of a combat gun not the best compared to the ak

Swampy
11-07-2011, 11:38 PM
Smith and Wesson M&P 15 is nice rifle, or if your looking towards more of a deer hunting caliber bump up to a AR-10 (.308 or 7.62 NATO).

Or if you don't like AR look but want the reliablity of combat rifle. Springfield M-1A (M-14) is nothing but bad @zz.

There shouldn't be a issue firing 5.56 or .223 stamped ammo. There is no difference between the two. The only thing you might have a issue with firing stamped 5.56 if it was belted or de-linked machine gun ammo.

GravelyGuy
11-07-2011, 11:54 PM
I have a Bushmaster. Shoots awesome on cheap .223 ammo.

lyube
11-08-2011, 06:23 AM
The m16/ar15 series beats the ak any day.

Google spikes tactical and buy a complete mid length ar15 rifle for around 800$. Add a rail optic and light and spend some money on ammo.

Avoid the mini 14. The ar is a far better target, Hunting, and self defense weapon than a mini14.

Avoid anything made by bushmaster, dpms, Hesse, Olympic, etc.
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punt66
11-08-2011, 07:53 AM
The m16/ar15 series beats the ak any day.

Google spikes tactical and buy a complete mid length ar15 rifle for around 800$. Add a rail optic and light and spend some money on ammo.

Avoid the mini 14. The ar is a far better target, Hunting, and self defense weapon than a mini14.

Avoid anything made by bushmaster, dpms, Hesse, Olympic, etc.
Posted via Mobile Device

OK, thanks for the advice guys. I am looking a suppresor models as well. What are your thoughts on these?

wbw
11-08-2011, 09:44 AM
Colt LE 6920 is the Toyota Camry/Honda Accord of the AR world. Of course if you are leaning mor towards the Ferrari end of the spectrum there are some very nice weapons out there.

PROPERTYLAWNSERVICELLC
11-08-2011, 09:46 AM
OK, thanks for the advice guys. I am looking a suppresor models as well. What are your thoughts on these?

you need a permit .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN-T_zeTdTM

f50lvr2
11-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Smith and Wesson M&P 15 has suited me well. Cost effective and has been 100% reliable. If I could only have one I'd still recommend an AK however.

txgrassguy
11-08-2011, 12:53 PM
I disagree about the avoiding Bushmaster. In the last twenty odd years I have fired well over 100,000 rounds of mixed density ammo through three separate Bushmasters with no problems.

My current AR is a Bushmaster modeled after the Colt XM-15A1, commonly known as the Commando. Cost me $800 delivered to my door and has fired well in excess of 10,000 rounds of varying grades of ammo with no issues.

Regarding the suppressor a "permit" is not the correct terminology - what you will require to lawfully possess a suppressor is a one time tax stamp acquired through either the BATFE or a licensed class III dealer. The stamp is for just the suppressor which may be switched between weapons of similar projectile diameter.

Remember though, firing ammo which exceeds the sound barrier will still result in a muzzle signature although depending upon the pressure the fired ammo operates at - the muzzle signature may be attenuated somewhat.

The real benefit to a suppressor is heavier projectiles at lower velocities which may require some tuning to get an AR styled weapon platform to operate reliably.

If you are set upon acquiring a suppressor your AR barrel will have to have a slower twist or rifling rate to stabilize the heavier projectile in order to achieve repeated accuracy with subsequent shots.

Exact Rototilling
11-08-2011, 01:08 PM
Smith and Wesson M&P 15 has suited me well. Cost effective and has been 100% reliable. If I could only have one I'd still recommend an AK however.

+1


http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/811000_01_lg.jpg



I purchased this rifle on election day in 2008 in celebration of 2 establishment supported anti gun presidential candidates both part D&R ...and never fired it. I used to really be into the tactical teddy thing. Just zero time for it.

That changes this winter. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/39.gif

jsf343
11-08-2011, 01:53 PM
Fun thread, the debate for the best AR/AK is forever on going and very much like ford/chevy or Scag/Exmark or whatever. My simple advice is ask yourself a few questions...

1. what is my main purpose of this weapon... self defense? hobby shooting? some kind of critter shooting?
2. what will be your main distances? short range (home def.) mid range or long?
3. what is your budget? this is very important, there is some big differences in parts on a $650.00 AR and a $1500.00 or more AR.

I would challenge you to take a week or longer and check out some various AR forums, ask questions, read the threads all before you buy. I thought I knew a pretty good amount about them and found myself learning a ton more after reading on these.

I recently bought a Daniel Defense AR it is one of the better models and thus cost me a bit more. That being said there are many good models DD, Bushmaster, Colt ( a very good gun, although I feel you are paying a premium for the name) Spikes Tactical, (a lot of law enforcement use)NoveskE (one of the best you can buy IMHO), LMT, and on and on. All are good and will do what you want it to do, but here again you need to figure out what you are going to use it for and how you want to configure it. Shorter barrel, shorter range.Will you need a scope? don't want a long range set up on a short range rifle. Do you want a chrome lined barrel? (I did) what about various other parts (hand guards, sights, internal parts?) all things to consider before pouring a ton of money into it.

PM me if you have any questions

Take care,

Jeff

lyube
11-08-2011, 03:40 PM
OK, thanks for the advice guys. I am looking a suppresor models as well. What are your thoughts on these?

Getting a suppressor requires a bit of money, time, and knowledge on how they work.

Research it before you buy. A lot.

Personally, im going the 12.5" m4 and surefire suppressor route. Powerful, accurate, won't wake the neighbors.
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lyube
11-08-2011, 03:44 PM
While they may work fine they do have quite a few substandard parts assemblies on them. Semi auto carriers. Bolts not mpi checked. 1/9 barrels. Commercial buffer tubes..etc. For the same price you can get a new/used colt or new spikes gun that's better in every way.


I disagree about the avoiding Bushmaster. In the last twenty odd years I have fired well over 100,000 rounds of mixed density ammo through three separate Bushmasters with no problems.

My current AR is a Bushmaster modeled after the Colt XM-15A1, commonly known as the Commando. Cost me $800 delivered to my door and has fired well in excess of 10,000 rounds of varying grades of ammo with no issues.

Regarding the suppressor a "permit" is not the correct terminology - what you will require to lawfully possess a suppressor is a one time tax stamp acquired through either the BATFE or a licensed class III dealer. The stamp is for just the suppressor which may be switched between weapons of similar projectile diameter.

Remember though, firing ammo which exceeds the sound barrier will still result in a muzzle signature although depending upon the pressure the fired ammo operates at - the muzzle signature may be attenuated somewhat.

The real benefit to a suppressor is heavier projectiles at lower velocities which may require some tuning to get an AR styled weapon platform to operate reliably.

If you are set upon acquiring a suppressor your AR barrel will have to have a slower twist or rifling rate to stabilize the heavier projectile in order to achieve repeated accuracy with subsequent shots.
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punt66
11-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Well here is the thing. I have a HUGE collection.

I have long range rifles. 280, 25-06 (deadly accurate), 308, 300 ultra with a 600yd scope and bipod. Plus many many many more bolt action rifles. My shot gun collection is extensive as well which includes over and unders, semi autos, pump action, and even a 12ga barrel for my TC. My handgun collection is extensive as well. I own 3 TC's with just about every barrel made for them. From a 223 barrel to a 454 and 12 ga. I also have several colt 1911's. Many revolvers including my favorite a 41 Mag special order with all brass trimming that a gun store offered me $6000 for it. I have several derengers and even pen guns. I have my great great grandmothers single shot derenger that she carried in her bra during the prohibition as my great great grandfather ran whisky. I have a handfull of carry guns as well.

What is missing is an AR. I have a few .22 semis that i can shoot fast as all hell and they are accurate but dont have the punch behind them obviously. What i am thinking is that i would like to "finish" the collection with an ar. A fast shooter with a little punch (223 is weak compared to my rifles) at least enough to do some damage if need be and that will repeat quickly. I want accuracy and i want cheap ammo to stock. Unlike my 300 ultra the ammo for a 223 ($300) for 1000 rounds is CHEAP. I have even seen it as low as $219 for 1000 rounds. I dont mind buying used as long as it was properly cared for.

I do want an ar that will withstand the elements. Lets face it, if poop ever hit the fan i think the ar will be the #1 rife as ammo is cheap and it has enough punch to do the job. I am not buying it for "home defense". I am not buying it for hunting. I am buying it to round off the collection and to have a "bush" gun incase poop hits the fan. We are recovering from a natural disaster right now as CT was hit hard by an early snow storm and we were without power for 8 days. We were without fuel for 4 days. People were getting weird. So it got me thinking about what i would want/need if something even more catostrophic happened and i needed a tool for survival and such. As i was thinking about it and going through the rundown of my collection to decide which weapons would most suit that purpose i realized i had a missing piece to the puzzle. I have close range, long range, but i realized i was missing a good mid-range repeater. So here i am looking for the right one. I a not looking for the best of the best. I was considering a suppresor as i would think in the field (which is what the gun would be owned and intended for) it would be beneficial. I do want a light on it and i do want open sights as i want to be fast with it. I have plenty of scoped guns if necessary. I would want it to weather well. Again, inteded for use in a catastrophy. (i know it is unlikely i would need it, but 1 purchase will free my mind knowing i have all bases covered) I am used to steel guns that i oil and baby. Guns that are scribed and pretty etc. This is NOT what i want out of this ar. I need to to be tough. My 300 ultra mag is SS. I also have several SS handguns and my carry guns will do well in the weather dept for a while as well. I am assuming the ar' are made for what i am describing correct? I want a workhorse. I have super accurate guns. My main aobjective for the ar is to weather well, be reliable, strong, and last with a lot of use. Anymore you guys want to add to this i am all ears and i look forward to posting pics of the new adittion after i decide which one to go with.

f50lvr2
11-08-2011, 05:30 PM
My main aobjective for the ar is to weather well, be reliable, strong, and last with a lot of use. Anymore you guys want to add to this i am all ears and i look forward to posting pics of the new adittion after i decide which one to go with.

First off, I'm JEALOUS of your collection, it sounds like a lot of fun.

Anyway, if this is all you want why not just get an AK and call it good? What you just described is the Kalashnikov to a tee, plus the maintenance is ridiculously low. For example, I bought an AK47 used at a gun show last year with the wood stock and a composite Dragunov style stock, optics mount, 4 magazines and a Timney trigger for $400. It will out shoot the S&W AR everyday and ammo is just as cheap.

AI Inc
11-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Screw the AK, buy be American , buy American.

jsf343
11-08-2011, 05:33 PM
you listed many of the reasons I bought mine, I researched long and hard for a couple months before I made the purchase, looking bacck I would not do ANYTHING different. check out this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEnwlIuw1jA&feature=player_embedded#!

This is a tough rifle, very good parts an one of the lightest out there (very important if you have to start shooting when shtf) and you have one of the best rail systems out there very easy to add any type of scope you want.

lyube
11-08-2011, 05:57 PM
First off, I'm JEALOUS of your collection, it sounds like a lot of fun.

Anyway, if this is all you want why not just get an AK and call it good? What you just described is the Kalashnikov to a tee, plus the maintenance is ridiculously low. For example, I bought an AK47 used at a gun show last year with the wood stock and a composite Dragunov style stock, optics mount, 4 magazines and a Timney trigger for $400. It will out shoot the S&W AR everyday and ammo is just as cheap.

Because the ak round sucks past 200 yards. Youre forgetting the ergonomic nightmare of the safety and magazine release. Magazine changes? Harder than an ar. Sights? They suck. So does elevation and windage. The ak was made for people who had to be told not to go crap in their well. Punt, while differing with me on some issues, seems to be a normal, rational person.

I have left an m16 in the top hatch of an aav and after several days of operations, even while being covered in dirt and sand..worked.

It's not a case of buy American..it's a case of buy the better weapon. It costs more, yes, but the quality is more evident in it.
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lyube
11-08-2011, 06:01 PM
Well here is the thing. I have a HUGE collection.

I have long range rifles. 280, 25-06 (deadly accurate), 308, 300 ultra with a 600yd scope and bipod. Plus many many many more bolt action rifles. My shot gun collection is extensive as well which includes over and unders, semi autos, pump action, and even a 12ga barrel for my TC. My handgun collection is extensive as well. I own 3 TC's with just about every barrel made for them. From a 223 barrel to a 454 and 12 ga. I also have several colt 1911's. Many revolvers including my favorite a 41 Mag special order with all brass trimming that a gun store offered me $6000 for it. I have several derengers and even pen guns. I have my great great grandmothers single shot derenger that she carried in her bra during the prohibition as my great great grandfather ran whisky. I have a handfull of carry guns as well.

What is missing is an AR. I have a few .22 semis that i can shoot fast as all hell and they are accurate but dont have the punch behind them obviously. What i am thinking is that i would like to "finish" the collection with an ar. A fast shooter with a little punch (223 is weak compared to my rifles) at least enough to do some damage if need be and that will repeat quickly. I want accuracy and i want cheap ammo to stock. Unlike my 300 ultra the ammo for a 223 ($300) for 1000 rounds is CHEAP. I have even seen it as low as $219 for 1000 rounds. I dont mind buying used as long as it was properly cared for.
I do want an ar that will withstand the elements. Lets face it, if poop ever hit the fan i think the ar will be the #1 rife as ammo is cheap and it has enough punch to do the job. I am not buying it for "home defense". I am not buying it for hunting. I am buying it to round off the collection and to have a "bush" gun incase poop hits the fan. We are recovering from a natural disaster right now as CT was hit hard by an early snow storm and we were without power for 8 days. We were without fuel for 4 days. People were getting weird. So it got me thinking about what i would want/need if something even more catostrophic happened and i needed a tool for survival and such. As i was thinking about it and going through the rundown of my collection to decide which weapons would
most suit that purpose i realized i had a missing piece to the puzzle. I have close range, long range, but i realized i was missing a good mid-range repeater. So here i am looking for the right one. I a not looking for the best of the best. I was considering a suppresor as i would think in the field (which is what the gun would be owned and intended for) it would be beneficial. I do want a light on

it and i do want open sights as i want to be fast with it. I have plenty of scoped guns if necessary. I would want it to weather well. Again, inteded for use in a catastrophy. (i know it is unlikely i would need it, but 1 purchase will free my mind knowing i have all bases covered) I am used to steel guns that i oil and baby. Guns that are scribed and pretty etc. This is NOT what i want out of this ar. I need to to be tough. My 300 ultra mag is SS. I also have several SS handguns and my carry guns will do well in the weather dept for a while as well. I am assuming the ar' are made for what i am describing correct? I want a workhorse. I have super accurate guns. My main aobjective for the ar is to weather well, be reliable, strong, and last with a lot of use. Anymore you guys want to add to
this i am all ears and i look forward to posting pics of the new adittion after i decide which one to go with.
Spikes tactical
Colt
Daniel defense
Bravo company
Lewis machine and tool

Buy from one of those and youll be good. Get a midlength if possible. Optical sights are nearly always faster than iron sights. A streamlight tlr1 light that mounts on a rail is cheap and works.

Being prepared isn't about having a gun. It's a mindset. Having extra cash set aside for bills, food, water, and a couple guns and plenty of ammo and parts to keep them running is far superior to having an arsenal.

GravelyGuy
11-08-2011, 06:04 PM
The m16/ar15 series beats the ak any day.

Google spikes tactical and buy a complete mid length ar15 rifle for around 800$. Add a rail optic and light and spend some money on ammo.

Avoid the mini 14. The ar is a far better target, Hunting, and self defense weapon than a mini14.

Avoid anything made by bushmaster, dpms, Hesse, Olympic, etc.
Posted via Mobile Device

What do you have against Bushmaster? Mine is pretty damn accuate and reliable.

lyube
11-08-2011, 06:07 PM
What do you have against Bushmaster? Mine is pretty damn accuate and reliable.


For what you get with what you paid you can get a much better rifle elsewhere. A real military spec barrel, bolt carrier group, buffer tube, and higher quality steel.
Posted via Mobile Device

punt66
11-08-2011, 06:08 PM
Spikes tactical
Colt
Daniel defense
Bravo company
Lewis machine and tool

Buy from one of those and youll be good. Get a midlength if possible. Optical sights are nearly always faster than iron sights. A streamlight tlr1 light that mounts on a rail is cheap and works.

Being prepared isn't about having a gun. It's a mindset. Having extra cash set aside for bills, food, water, and a couple guns and plenty of ammo and parts to keep them running is far superior to having an arsenal.

I have those other things already ;)

f50lvr2
11-08-2011, 06:54 PM
Well here is the thing. I have a HUGE collection.






[QUOTE=lyube;4209651]Because the ak round sucks past 200 yards. Youre forgetting the ergonomic nightmare of the safety and magazine release. Magazine changes? Harder than an ar. Sights? They suck. So does elevation and windage. The ak was made for people who had to be told not to go crap in their well. Punt, while differing with me on some issues, seems to be a normal, rational person.

I have left an m16 in the top hatch of an aav and after several days of operations, even while being covered in dirt and sand..worked.

It's not a case of buy American..it's a case of buy the better weapon. It costs more, yes, but the quality is more evident in it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, I guess I struck a nerve there buddy. I wasn't trying to offend anybody. Apparently you're just the sensitive type. I have nothing against the AR platform, I think it's fantastic and serves its purpose extremely well.

My point was just that the way you described your situation is pretty much the MO of an AK, as most informed gun owners would likely agree. And I'm not saying the AR is unreliable even in DI guise, if it were our military wouldn't issue it.

And I think you're misinformed as to the capabilities of the 7.62x54 rounds capabilities. A dragunov style rifle will easily engage targets beyond 800yds. Besides which, you said you had long range rifles and didn't want another one, so why is that relevant to you anyway? As for sights, adjustments etc., it's a matter of preference and training.

Just my .02c from an owner and enthusiast of both platforms.

Chevy z71
11-08-2011, 07:36 PM
Soon as i get the money im buying one of these. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_60/products_id/18336

Chevy z71
11-08-2011, 07:50 PM
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM2701-1.html

Exact Rototilling
11-08-2011, 08:49 PM
Big difference between 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9754mmR

And 7.62 x 51....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9751mm_NATO
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punt66
11-08-2011, 09:22 PM
OK, i am leaning tword this one http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786010_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

300 whisper is calling my name but its really not what i want. Even though it is hahaha

Swampy
11-09-2011, 02:59 AM
[QUOTE=punt66;4209565]Well here is the thing. I have a HUGE collection.








Wow, I guess I struck a nerve there buddy. I wasn't trying to offend anybody. Apparently you're just the sensitive type. I have nothing against the AR platform, I think it's fantastic and serves its purpose extremely well.

My point was just that the way you described your situation is pretty much the MO of an AK, as most informed gun owners would likely agree. And I'm not saying the AR is unreliable even in DI guise, if it were our military wouldn't issue it.

And I think you're misinformed as to the capabilities of the 7.62x54 rounds capabilities. A dragunov style rifle will easily engage targets beyond 800yds. Besides which, you said you had long range rifles and didn't want another one, so why is that relevant to you anyway? As for sights, adjustments etc., it's a matter of preference and training.

Just my .02c from an owner and enthusiast of both platforms.

Isreali Galil IMO is the better choice over a AK. Though its the steel in the hands of its user that makes you a top shot not facts and numbers. Simple things like magazine changes is on its user, there is always a better way, it comes down to training really.

lyube
11-09-2011, 07:50 AM
[QUOTE=punt66;4209565]Well here is the thing. I have a HUGE collection.
Wow, I guess I struck a nerve there buddy. I wasn't trying to offend anybody. Apparently you're just the sensitive type. I have nothing against the AR platform, I think it's fantastic and serves its purpose extremely well.

My point was just that the way you described your situation is pretty much the MO of an AK, as most informed gun owners would likely agree. And I'm not saying the AR is unreliable even in DI guise, if it were our military wouldn't issue it.
And I think you're misinformed as to the capabilities of the 7.62x54 rounds capabilities. A dragunov style rifle will easily engage targets beyond 800yds. Besides which, you said you had long range rifles and didn't want another one, so why is that relevant to you anyway? As for sights, adjustments etc., it's a matter of preference and training.
Just my .02c from an owner and enthusiast of both platforms.

You didn't it's just hard to throw in smileys on mobile. An ak I owned had a kaboom and nearly cost me my eyesight and destroyed the rifle. I had it rebuilt and it still had some malfunctions until it was broken in but had a rough time getting there. I was referring to the 7.62x39.
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lyube
11-09-2011, 07:54 AM
OK, i am leaning tword this one http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786010_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

300 whisper is calling my name but its really not what i want. Even though it is hahaha

It's got a softer barrel than the others, 4140. 1-8 twist..for the price you could build a really nice spikes rifle with a better quality barrel and parts.
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f50lvr2
11-09-2011, 10:04 AM
I should probably apologize for my snarky post. I was having a crappy day and probably typed before I thought. I guess I was the one being a little too sensitive. Anyway, it sounds like you are an informed buyer that knows what you are looking for.

My point with the 7.62x54 round being that the AK platform is just as adaptable as the AR platform. Just like an AR10 system will be superior in terms of range and stopping power than an AR15 system. After your experience with an AK it's understandable you would not be looking for another one. I wish you good luck with your new purchase whatever it may be and hope you enjoy shooting it.

punt66
11-09-2011, 10:51 AM
It's got a softer barrel than the others, 4140. 1-8 twist..for the price you could build a really nice spikes rifle with a better quality barrel and parts.
Posted via Mobile Device

ok, help me lay it out. :drinkup:

jkingrph
11-09-2011, 10:56 AM
Smith and Wesson M&P 15 is nice rifle, or if your looking towards more of a deer hunting caliber bump up to a AR-10 (.308 or 7.62 NATO).

Or if you don't like AR look but want the reliablity of combat rifle. Springfield M-1A (M-14) is nothing but bad @zz.

There shouldn't be a issue firing 5.56 or .223 stamped ammo. There is no difference between the two. The only thing you might have a issue with firing stamped 5.56 if it was belted or de-linked machine gun ammo.

If you research the issue, there is a difference betwen 5.56 and .223. I think and, please don't quote me as I am going strickly on memory, that the 5.56 is loaded to much higher pressures and there is a slight chamber/throat difference that may lead to problems when firing 5.56 in a .223 labeled gun.

I do not have references to such articles, but have read several.

Now I have fired a lot of 5.56 through my Rem 700 varmit special that is labeled .223 and had no problems. I acutally purchased the rifle back in 1971 when I was in the USAF so I could shoot military ammo. I did this blissfuly for a lot of years before reading of this warning.

You will probably not have any problems doing this, but the warnings are out there and you are on your own when using ammo that is not proper or standard for the chambering.

lyube
11-09-2011, 03:32 PM
ok, help me lay it out. :drinkup:

Chrome lining of the barrel or melonite is mandatory.

Here's an idea as to what goes into making the proper barrel. Normal button rifled barrels are good but hammer forged are better.
*
Mil-Spec Barrel Steel (Certified Mil-B-11595E)
BCM barrel steel is Mil-Spec per MIL-B-11595E, and is independently certified. This grade (CMV) of steel is a Mil-Spec steel used in the USGI M16 family of rifles; it is stronger and will last longer than the typical barrels offered in the commercial market. This Mil-Spec grade steel gets itsí additional strength and rigidity from an increase in carbon and/or vanadium in the alloy. This will offer increased barrel life and performance through use in all types of extreme environments and temperatures.
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lyube
11-09-2011, 03:33 PM
Yeah you're right on the money. Shooting hotter 5.56 in a 223 chambered semi auto can lead to trouble.



If you research the issue, there is a difference betwen 5.56 and .223. I think and, please don't quote me as I am going strickly on memory, that the 5.56 is loaded to much higher pressures and there is a slight chamber/throat difference that may lead to problems when firing 5.56 in a .223 labeled gun.

I do not have references to such articles, but have read several.

Now I have fired a lot of 5.56 through my Rem 700 varmit special that is labeled .223 and had no problems. I acutally purchased the rifle back in 1971 when I was in the USAF so I could shoot military ammo. I did this blissfuly for a lot of years before reading of this warning.

You will probably not have any problems doing this, but the warnings are out there and you are on your own when using ammo that is not proper or standard for the chambering.
Posted via Mobile Device

lyube
11-09-2011, 03:55 PM
I should probably apologize for my snarky post. I was having a crappy day and probably typed before I thought. I guess I was the one being a little too sensitive. Anyway, it sounds like you are an informed buyer that knows what you are looking for.

My point with the 7.62x54 round being that the AK platform is just as adaptable as the AR platform. Just like an AR10 system will be superior in terms of range and stopping power than an AR15 system. After your experience with an AK it's understandable you would not be looking for another one. I wish you good luck with your new purchase whatever it may be and hope you enjoy shooting it.

I don't think it's as adaptable as the ar, still. True dragunovs are very rare in the us and are different from regular ak rifles. I can convert my m4 to a number of different calibers by swapping the upper receiver. I will purchase another ak in the future because I really miss that last one I had. It was a very pretty looking rifle but I needed a sub compact glock for concealed carry. I already had the dedicated semi auto rifle taken care of so it was unneeded.

The ar15 in 20" or 16" is good out to 500 and plenty of times farther. The extra range of the 7.62 rounds only comes into play after that. No such thing as stopping power..a lot of people have survived 7.62. What matters with each round is making solid hits. They will do the job.
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Chevy z71
11-09-2011, 05:17 PM
What you think about the one i posted?

GMLC
11-09-2011, 07:02 PM
Do you want a Piston or DI operated AR-15?

punt66
11-09-2011, 08:02 PM
Piston, i want a grenade launcher too :)

GMLC
11-09-2011, 08:06 PM
The Ruger SR556 is a great value for a piston driven AR-15. Check it out for the money its a well rounded AR.
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Swampy
11-09-2011, 10:54 PM
Piston, i want a grenade launcher too :)

LOL.

Reading this thread really makes me want to shoot something. Luckly gun deer hunting is coming up soon here in WI.

Swampy
11-09-2011, 11:12 PM
And a add to what lyube said about his 16 and a AAV (OoRah). My brand new, out of the box, M4 sits behind me (between the seat and fuel tank wont fit in the rack) in the Dozer and gets covered in "moon dust". Its a pain to clean after but it'll still racks a round, fires, and cycles. My first and only tour to Iraq with the Infantry, my old M16A2 took a round to the shell deflector and still fired all day.

lyube
11-10-2011, 09:48 PM
Piston, i want a grenade launcher too :)

Go with di..pistons are more complex for little to no gain in reliability. Each manufacturer has their own piston setup meaning more complexities when getting spare parts. Di is everywhere. However, if you're going to go piston spend the money and buy a nice one..lewis machine and tool mrp, hk mr556, and lwrc are all excellent platforms.
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lyube
11-10-2011, 09:52 PM
What you think about the one i posted?

Avoid the carbon 15..they break easily, are made of substandard parts, and are really only suitable for being used as a lesson on why you don't buy carbon fiber ar15s. For 200$ more you could get a spikes tactical which is a very good quality rifle.
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lyube
11-10-2011, 09:55 PM
And a add to what lyube said about his 16 and a AAV (OoRah). My brand new, out of the box, M4 sits behind me (between the seat and fuel tank wont fit in the rack) in the Dozer and gets covered in "moon dust". Its a pain to clean after but it'll still racks a round, fires, and cycles. My first and only tour to Iraq with the Infantry, my old M16A2 took a round to the shell deflector and still fired all day.

What are you doing that makes it a pain? Just wipe it down with a rag, spray it with clp (grease is better), hit the bore with a brush, reassemble.
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Swampy
11-11-2011, 12:25 AM
What are you doing that makes it a pain? Just wipe it down with a rag, spray it with clp (grease is better), hit the bore with a brush, reassemble.
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Star chamber, under the rail system, in the lower reciever (under the sear). Back blading with a dozer can kick up a ton dust, doesn't help they are all open cabs either. Armorer wants white glove everytime. I should rephase what I said earlier, its a pain when your only issued half of a cleaning kit. And it didn't help that my M4 was still soaking with the factory grease/oil when it came out with me to Irwin, and I didn't have the a chance to wipe it down, it was "Schmitz jump on that dozer"

Edit: there is a picture of the dozer in my picture thread below

lyube
11-11-2011, 09:11 AM
Star chamber, under the rail system, in the lower reciever (under the sear). Back blading with a dozer can kick up a ton dust, doesn't help they are all open cabs either. Armorer wants white glove everytime. I should rephase what I said earlier, its a pain when your only issued half of a cleaning kit. And it didn't help that my M4 was still soaking with the factory grease/oil when it came out with me to Irwin, and I didn't have the a chance to wipe it down, it was "Schmitz jump on that dozer"

Edit: there is a picture of the dozer in my picture thread below

Ehh yeah for armory turn in sure. For basic maintenance? Heck no. If you ever need anything email me and I'll see what I can do. All you need to keep the m4 running is lube..it will run dirty just fine. Tooth brush, barrel rod, brush, chamber brush, eyelet. Everything else is optional.
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Chevy z71
11-11-2011, 08:19 PM
I like bushmaster what's the difference between them?

lyube
11-11-2011, 11:29 PM
I like bushmaster what's the difference between them?

Plain semi auto bolt carrier groups, 4140 steel barrels, 1-9 twist rifling, commercial buffer tube. Poor finish, etc. Back in the early days of ar15s they might have been great but now we have people who make a much better gun for the same money.

The carbon 15 has a lot of problems. Google them. It's not a problem if you are looking for a range toy but for a serious use weapon it's a big thing to consider.
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Swampy
11-12-2011, 02:37 AM
Ehh yeah for armory turn in sure. For basic maintenance? Heck no. If you ever need anything email me and I'll see what I can do. All you need to keep the m4 running is lube..it will run dirty just fine. Tooth brush, barrel rod, brush, chamber brush, eyelet. Everything else is optional.
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These are notorious to sweat/bleed carbon, so I'm told. All I was issued was 2 cleaning rods and a eyelet. I ended up purchasing a otis kit, works great, even use it for my hunting rifle. I just couldn't bear to hear the grinding sound when you pull that charging handle back after being covered in sand.

Maybe you can answer another question for me. Sitting on a BZO range, the rifle would always misfeed on the 2nd round out of 3. Even did it on the Qual range to. Tap, rack, banged the 3rd round and functioned fine for the rest of the mag. Insert a fresh mag same thing, 2nd round misfeed, it was doing it all day. Usually no big deal, but only getting 34 out of 40, part of it being 3 misfeed's gets fustrating when your looking at your score for promotion points.

If it helps: rifle is made by FN, Mags have Tan follower and are new.

FinerCutslawnCare
01-17-2012, 12:32 AM
I love my bushmaster, but if I was to buy another one it would be colt.

cgaengineer
11-09-2012, 05:11 PM
Old thread I know...but trying to get this section going...I own 3 AR15's...doesn't really matter the brand as long as they are Mil-Spec

I have a Bushy, Remington, and DPMS

cgaengineer
11-09-2012, 05:12 PM
Piston, i want a grenade launcher too :)

Can you even own a gun in CT? Can you buy ammo?