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hilde123
11-13-2011, 08:59 PM
I was replacing a patch of sod and found these critters (probably 3-5 per SF) beneath the sod I cut out. Are they White Grubs?

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd317/hilde5962/IMG_4464.jpg

Keith
11-13-2011, 09:33 PM
Yep, that is a grub.

jvanvliet
11-14-2011, 07:17 AM
Dylox 6.2...

Ric
11-14-2011, 10:13 AM
..


I am going to sound like a Tree Hugger.

But isn't a little too late in the season to treat for Grubs in Orlando??? With this last Cold front, I am thinking the ground temperature is telling the grubs to start to Over Winter and stop feeding. Sure you are still going to find them in wet areas of the yard. But I am thinking they have stopped eating by now.

All opinions welcome.



..

Landscape Poet
11-14-2011, 07:28 PM
That is a grub....did your L & O company make it out there for the new sod treatment yet? If not let me know. You are most likely seeing them as a result of the moisture that you are applying to keep the new sod moist which is also bringing them to the surface. The ones that are present should start to die assuming they have treated the turf with the insecticide (arena ) that they are suppose to be as part of your new sod care program. As the Arena starts making its way into the soil through the moisture you are applying to keep the new sod moist, it will come in contact with these guys and they shall no longer exist. :)

Landscape Poet
11-14-2011, 07:57 PM
..


I am going to sound like a Tree Hugger.

But isn't a little too late in the season to treat for Grubs in Orlando??? With this last Cold front, I am thinking the ground temperature is telling the grubs to start to Over Winter and stop feeding. Sure you are still going to find them in wet areas of the yard. But I am thinking they have stopped eating by now.

All opinions welcome.



..

Ric,

Educate us lawnturds - would his count of 3-5 grubs per square foot be a acceptable number? I have always heard anything under 10 per square foot would be considered a suppressed amount and you would likely not see damage in that population range or less? Is this accurate? I believe you are in the grub capital of FL with your canal front properties correct?

jvanvliet
11-14-2011, 08:40 PM
The ones that are present should start to die assuming they have treated the turf with the insecticide (arena ) that they are suppose to be as part of your new sod care program. As the Arena starts making its way into the soil through the moisture you are applying to keep the new sod moist, it will come in contact with these guys and they shall no longer exist. :)

Why is Arena superior for grubs as opposed to Dylox 6.2, is it based on price or performance? Not trying to be contentious, just curious.

Dylox 6.2 followed by Imidacloprid for longer term control does well in zone 10.

Just saying :rolleyes:

Landscape Poet
11-14-2011, 08:46 PM
Why is Arena superior for grubs as opposed to Dylox 6.2, is it based on price or performance? Not trying to be contentious, just curious.

Dylox 6.2 followed by Imidacloprid for longer term control does well in zone 10.

Just saying :rolleyes:

Did not say it was. Just know that is what the OP's pest control service uses for cinch bug and pest control. I also know that is what is generally applied to new sod installations along with a bifen spray for knockdown of anything active...at least that is during the heat of the season and webworm season especially with the bifen.

Not sure that any are superior. Personally I would see were the Imidacloprid would be much more cost effective that arena. It is just what that company uses.


*trucewhiteflag*

hilde123
11-14-2011, 09:42 PM
No show from Heron yet, I called Ryan this morning, he was in the office, and said he did not see anything on the computer for service. He yelled at someone in the background asking if they processed a request for my yard (I assume the guy you work with) and he said let me check into it and I'll call you back in 2 minutes. Never got a call back. Dont think the soil temperature has cooled enough to send them deeper, per my SMS it is 71.7 degrees.

Landscape Poet
11-14-2011, 09:55 PM
No show from Heron yet, I called Ryan this morning, he was in the office, and said he did not see anything on the computer for service. He yelled at someone in the background asking if they processed a request for my yard (I assume the guy you work with) and he said let me check into it and I'll call you back in 2 minutes. Never got a call back. Dont think the soil temperature has cooled enough to send them deeper, per my SMS it is 71.7 degrees.

There should of been something in the system as I called corporate for you on Friday myself. I just text Mark - the sales rep for my area and tore into him. You have my personal phone number...if they do not have a appointment set up for you by Wed. morning please let me know as I will be on the owner of Heron's property during the early morning. But I have a feeling someone will be in contact with you after the emails I am about to fire off.

Thanks,

Michael

jvanvliet
11-15-2011, 07:07 AM
*trucewhiteflag*

Personally I would see were the Imidacloprid would be much more cost effective that arena.

Grubs are still a problem here right now with temperatures in the low to mid 80's and intermittent showers.

FYI, my pest control guy says Imidacloprid is definitly more beneficial before the eggs go to larva, Arena, Dylox or Bifenthrin after. He likes the Dylox because of cost, contact kill and residual, I suppose mostly cost.

Different strokes for different folks eh? :drinkup:

Ric
11-15-2011, 09:08 AM
Ric,

Educate us lawnturds - would his count of 3-5 grubs per square foot be a acceptable number? I have always heard anything under 10 per square foot would be considered a suppressed amount and you would likely not see damage in that population range or less? Is this accurate? I believe you are in the grub capital of FL with your canal front properties correct?

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh037

The Weather has not been the normal Traditional Pattern this year. I Posted during a small Cold Front that wasn't long enough to cool off the ground temperature. Yes with 85 degree days Grubs are still going to be active to some extend. I tried finding the Chart of the normal Grub Life cycle. Grubs come to the surface to feed starting about July and normally go deep to over winter by Late Oct to early Nov.


The Sugar Cane Grubs in my area have become resistant to Imidacloprid. Bayer stopped listing them on the Merit Label 5 or 6 Years ago. Because of alkaline soil in my area Dylox is not real effective either. That leaves Liquid Sevin and Arena. Cost wise arena is out of the Ball park at first glance. But take in account it lasts season long and the cost of labor and it starts to balance out. Add in it is the only really effective product for my area and I am forced to use it.

gregory
11-15-2011, 10:50 AM
i had very bad grub problems over the last few years. i used arena this year and had zero chinch bug problem or grub problems.. i think the problem i was having was not from the may/june bettle but from the sugar cane grub and that would explain why merit didnt work for me the last few yrs. i will use arena next year also b/c it worked so well this year...

like ric said it cost more but when you take into all of the other stuff into account its hard to beat...the cost of labor to lay new sod which i had to do the last 2 years..i only treat my own acre of turf....

ed2hess
11-19-2011, 07:28 PM
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh037

The Weather has not been the normal Traditional Pattern this year. I Posted during a small Cold Front that wasn't long enough to cool off the ground temperature. Yes with 85 degree days Grubs are still going to be active to some extend. I tried finding the Chart of the normal Grub Life cycle. Grubs come to the surface to feed starting about July and normally go deep to over winter by Late Oct to early Nov.


The Sugar Cane Grubs in my area have become resistant to Imidacloprid. Bayer stopped listing them on the Merit Label 5 or 6 Years ago. Because of alkaline soil in my area Dylox is not real effective either. That leaves Liquid Sevin and Arena. Cost wise arena is out of the Ball park at first glance. But take in account it lasts season long and the cost of labor and it starts to balance out. Add in it is the only really effective product for my area and I am forced to use it.
How are products like Arena marked or tagged so you can tell if you can buy it if you are not licensed?

jvanvliet
11-20-2011, 09:42 AM
How are products like Arena marked or tagged so you can tell if you can buy it if you are not licensed?

It's probably illegal to use these products on other than your own property unless you are licensed, check Texas (and your local) licensing requirements. Best to buy stuff at HD for your own yard or call a pest control operator.

ed2hess
11-20-2011, 07:36 PM
, check Texas (and your local) licensing requirements. Best to buy stuff at HD for your own yard or call a pest control operator.
So you imply that there is a list generated by the state to tell you what you need liscense for? And the HD chemicals are not getting the grubs any longer.

Ric
11-20-2011, 08:06 PM
So you imply that there is a list generated by the state to tell you what you need liscense for? And the HD chemicals are not getting the grubs any longer.

Ed

You have been a member since Nov of 2002 with over 8200 posts and you still don't understand or know pesticide law???? Geezes What place where the sun doesn't shine has your head been??


..

Landscape Poet
11-20-2011, 08:18 PM
Best to buy stuff at HD for your own yard or call a pest control operator.

They sell Arena now at Home Depot!!! If you seriously are doing your own property and it is small under 5k - it is almost better for you to purchase your Arena there as opposed to Lesco at least as it is cheaper or roughly the same cost and you are not forced to buy the larger commercial bag that is at Lesco.

ed2hess
11-20-2011, 10:31 PM
Ed

You have been a member since Nov of 2002 with over 8200 posts and you still don't understand or know pesticide law???? Geezes What place where the sun doesn't shine has your head been??


..

Ok Ric you need to talk more slowly I don't understand. How does a John Deere saleman know which chemicals require licenses? I am not in the spraying business but my yard is being eaten up by grubs. So I pop in over here to get some clue about what to use and walla here is the thread.

jvanvliet
11-21-2011, 07:02 AM
So you imply that there is a list generated by the state to tell you what you need liscense for? And the HD chemicals are not getting the grubs any longer.

*trucewhiteflag*

The state sets the requirements for chemical applications to turf grasses and ornamentals. For example; in Florida I have a limited application license that allows me to apply certain chemicals to the ornamentals and planting beds as well as fertilizer to turf grass.

There are limitations, I must apply pest control agents to the ornamentals by mechanical means, such as a back pack sprayer, I may not apply any pest control agent to the turf grass & that includes a "weed and feed" product. Check with your local extension what your requirements are, if any.

The label tells you whether or not it's restricted use. Commercial quantity is usually too much for an economical home owner application. Unless you got a bunch of acres, there'll be a bunch of dangerous chemicals in your storage facility for a long time.

Also, John Deere (LESCO) is way overpriced (my opinion). Like Michael said, you can get Arena at Home Depot, just saying.:drinkup:

Ric
11-21-2011, 08:47 AM
Ok Ric you need to talk more slowly I don't understand. How does a John Deere saleman know which chemicals require licenses? I am not in the spraying business but my yard is being eaten up by grubs. So I pop in over here to get some clue about what to use and walla here is the thread.

Ed

Ok here is some sunshine. Pesticides are either RUP (Restricted Use Pesticides) or GUP (General Use Pesticides). RUP can only be purchased by Certified companies and must be signed for. RUP products must be Documented on every drop or grain of the product and where it is applied.

GUP products may be purchased by anyone and there is no record keeping requirement.


.

ed2hess
11-21-2011, 11:06 PM
Ed

Ok here is some sunshine. Pesticides are either RUP (Restricted Use Pesticides) or GUP (General Use Pesticides). RUP can only be purchased by Certified companies and must be signed for. RUP products must be Documented on every drop or grain of the product and where it is applied.

GUP products may be purchased by anyone and there is no record keeping requirement.


.

I guess that info is on page one of the pdf. for the various chemicals? There is so much info on those sheets for the chemicals that I would need a master degree to read them.

Ok thanks I promise I won't come over into the Florida section any more.

Landscape Poet
11-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Ok thanks I promise I won't come over into the Florida section any more.

We welcome outsiders, the forum has just contained us here as we do not always play nice with others.:nono:

jvanvliet
11-22-2011, 07:12 AM
I personally love it when some Yankee tells us Southern lawn turds how they do it up north :laugh:

Ric
11-22-2011, 08:36 AM
I personally love it when some Yankee tells us Southern lawn turds how they do it up north :laugh:

"But that is not how we do it Up Home."

the_bug_guy
11-26-2011, 08:56 PM
[QUOTE=hilde123;4213886]I was replacing a patch of sod and found these critters (probably 3-5 per SF) beneath the sod I cut out. Are they White Grubs?

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sc012

white sugarcane grub with milky disease as seen in figure 3

Ric
11-27-2011, 09:57 AM
[QUOTE=hilde123;4213886]I was replacing a patch of sod and found these critters (probably 3-5 per SF) beneath the sod I cut out. Are they White Grubs?

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/sc012

white sugarcane grub with milky disease as seen in figure 3

Bug Guy

I find your link interesting from a Politically Correct Tree Hugger stand Point. Note this university report says ""THERE IS NO CHEMICAL CONTROL FOR WHITE GRUBS"" We in the pesticide industry know that statement is a pure out & out Lie. Do I have to say any more??


..

the_bug_guy
11-27-2011, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=the_bug_guy;4227454]

Bug Guy

I find your link interesting from a Politically Correct Tree Hugger stand Point. Note this university report says ""THERE IS NO CHEMICAL CONTROL FOR WHITE GRUBS"" We in the pesticide industry know that statement is a pure out & out Lie. Do I have to say any more??


..

meridian aloft areana they all get em

the_bug_guy
11-27-2011, 04:34 PM
[QUOTE=the_bug_guy;4227454]

Bug Guy

I find your link interesting from a Politically Correct Tree Hugger stand Point. Note this university report says ""THERE IS NO CHEMICAL CONTROL FOR WHITE GRUBS"" We in the pesticide industry know that statement is a pure out & out Lie. Do I have to say any more??


..

btw ric remember opie is never wrong :dancing:

GreenT
11-27-2011, 11:06 PM
.

I'm no chemical applicator guru but it may have something to do with agriculture practices -sugarcane agronomy- as opposed to turf (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh037).


Preventive control requires the use of long residual insecticides, such as imidacloprid (Merit®, Season-Long Grub Control®), thiamethoxam (Meridian®), halofenozide (Mach2®, Ortho Grub-B-Gon®, Grub-Ex®), clothianidin (Arena®), or chlorantraniliprole (Acelepryn®). These products give good control of newly hatched grubs. The best application period is during the month or so before egg hatch until the time when very young grubs are present. Preventive control requires the use of long residual insecticides. Professional combination products (e.g., Allectus®, Aloft®) have a pyrethroid and a neonicotinoid insecticide premixed together, which could be used to try to reduce both adult and larval populations.

.

greendoctor
11-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Not true. In ag, certified applicators are allowed to to use chemicals I wish were legal for turf and ornamentals.

GreenT
11-28-2011, 11:18 AM
.

Oh no.... I'm heartbroken.... :)

.

the_bug_guy
11-28-2011, 07:53 PM
.

I'm no chemical applicator guru but it may have something to do with agriculture practices -sugarcane agronomy- as opposed to turf (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/lh037).


Preventive control requires the use of long residual insecticides, such as imidacloprid (Merit®, Season-Long Grub Control®), thiamethoxam (Meridian®), halofenozide (Mach2®, Ortho Grub-B-Gon®, Grub-Ex®), clothianidin (Arena®), or chlorantraniliprole (Acelepryn®). These products give good control of newly hatched grubs. The best application period is during the month or so before egg hatch until the time when very young grubs are present. Preventive control requires the use of long residual insecticides. Professional combination products (e.g., Allectus®, Aloft®) have a pyrethroid and a neonicotinoid insecticide premixed together, which could be used to try to reduce both adult and larval populations.

.

most of the chemicals above in the neonicotinoid ( made from nicotine for all you smokers) line are systemic in nature. in other words adsorbed by the plant and when the little jerks eat the grass or plant they die. that is why it works so well chinch bugs.... the adult chinch bug does not damage the grass it is the babies that they are making by the thousands do.

The babies suck out the juices from the stolons and then throw up back into the plant and the stomach juices are what kills the st aug grass.

but u have to get it into the plant before they hatch out. imidacloprid or lesco's bandit will take up to six weeks to be adsorbed by the plant. i use it as a back up using conserve and bifenthrin mixed to spray and the granular. that way u get a quick kill and a long acting systemic control for all your problem insects.

your alternative is using azasol but at $50 an ounce and 6 ounces to an acre it is cost prohibitive except on someting you are going to lose because of major pest infestation.