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IRRITECH
11-14-2011, 05:59 PM
For those of you who work on these systems, what are the most common problems? I understand the concept and have been in Tucor classes, just never have installed any. Installation issues would be of the most interest.

Mike Leary
11-14-2011, 06:17 PM
I went to Tucor school and found them to be at the top of the heap. I came real close to going two-wire on some megas, but passed because I just did not trust the technology at the that time. These days, I'd look at two-wire real hard, especially if expansion was contemplated. My buddy, Russ, has a few in service and likes them a lot, though they are only a few years old. The trick, as I see it, is to pay as much attention to wiring as anything. (No King "blues") I do believe a clamp v.o.m. is needed to troubleshoot these systems. If I had a mega on the books, I'd go Tucor and find a way to include their remote in the budget.:clapping:

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-14-2011, 07:01 PM
If you already have a Rain Master remote then go Rain Master Controls and Baseline decoders.

Mike Leary
11-14-2011, 07:03 PM
If you already have a Rain Master remote then go Rain Master Controls and Baseline decoders.

If you want to hype anything, REP, post a link. :hammerhead:

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-14-2011, 07:05 PM
You hyped Tucor no linkee

Mike Leary
11-14-2011, 07:11 PM
If you want to hype anything, REP, post a link. :hammerhead:

tucor.com rainmaster.com

Sprinkus
11-15-2011, 08:11 AM
The biggest installation problems I see are poorly done wire splices and wiring insulation that is nicked down to the wire when the outer jacket is cut off.
I use these UF Cable Strippers (http://www.kinginnovation.com/products/tools/uf-cable-stripper/) to cut loose the outer jacket. Takes a few tries on a scrap piece of wire to get the hang of it.

Failure to do a correct as-built drawing showing the locations of the decoders, surge suppressors, any additional splices, and the wire path are another problem I've seen.

Rotor_Tool
11-16-2011, 12:45 PM
Wire splices are key in a two wire installation. 99% of the problems are associated with wire splices and decoder connections - trust me, I have seen a lot of these installations around the country and beyond. Baseline makes a decent system -especially for add-ons where you can go hybrid using conventional and two-wire. If I were installing a new system today, I would look at Baseline as well as the Rain Bird LXD. Tucor is ok, though the controllers are a little harder to program. LXD is easy to program and has a lot of nice features that came from the minds of contractors - pinging decoders, bar code scanning for decoder info input, flow monitoring, modularity, and the cost isn't out of this world.
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Rotor_Tool
11-16-2011, 12:47 PM
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Rotor_Tool
11-16-2011, 12:48 PM
Forgot the link...

http://www.rainbird.com/ESPLXseries/products/2wire/ESP-LXD.htm
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jbell36
11-16-2011, 07:08 PM
ewing sent me a email on a 2 wire course for $40 coming up, think it would be worth going?

Mike Leary
11-16-2011, 07:19 PM
ewing sent me a email on a 2 wire course for $40 coming up, think it would be worth going?

Yes, they usually have donuts and coffee. Sometimes lunch. Sit in the front, all the city, schools and county boys will be in the back farting and laughing, 'cause they're getting paid for attending and don't give a rat. :hammerhead:

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-16-2011, 09:46 PM
ewing sent me a email on a 2 wire course for $40 coming up, think it would be worth going?

Only if you do commercial work or lots of systems that exceed 24 zones or have really long wire runs. For regular residential you'll never use it but it might help if you ever service a two wire system.

Kiril
11-16-2011, 09:59 PM
The more you know, the better off you are and the more professional you become. If you can't learn it on your own, then go to the cheapy course and ignore people who give advice against learning something new.

Sprinkus
11-16-2011, 10:25 PM
2-wire can also be useful on smaller systems where the landscape is constantly changing or where there are many different microzones.
I remember one residential job a few years back that could have been done in 12 zones, after the landscape architect was done it was almost 40 zones.

jbell36
11-16-2011, 11:29 PM
hmmmmm, this is starting to come together...i helped a friend the other day work on a 35 zone system and saw a controller that i didn't recognize, had a nice digital face and it was the only controller for the entire HOA...didn't know it was a 2 wire until now...it was the hunter ACC box...makes sense because 2 wire is somewhat new technology and this system was put in in the last year

Rotor_Tool
11-17-2011, 12:59 AM
hmmmmm, this is starting to come together...i helped a friend the other day work on a 35 zone system and saw a controller that i didn't recognize, had a nice digital face and it was the only controller for the entire HOA...didn't know it was a 2 wire until now...it was the hunter ACC box...makes sense because 2 wire is somewhat new technology and this system was put in in the last year

If you do a patent search on decoders, you will see that the original patents were filed in the late 70's...hardly a new technology -though it is now becoming more popular in the commercial world of irrigation.
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Rotor_Tool
11-17-2011, 01:01 AM
I went to Tucor school and found them to be at the top of the heap. I came real close to going two-wire on some megas, but passed because I just did not trust the technology at the that time. These days, I'd look at two-wire real hard, especially if expansion was contemplated. My buddy, Russ, has a few in service and likes them a lot, though they are only a few years old. The trick, as I see it, is to pay as much attention to wiring as anything. (No King "blues") I do believe a clamp v.o.m. is needed to troubleshoot these systems. If I had a mega on the books, I'd go Tucor and find a way to include their remote in the budget.:clapping:

It's true, you need a clamp vom that will read milli-amps...and those dogs are salty!
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Rotor_Tool
11-17-2011, 01:08 AM
ewing sent me a email on a 2 wire course for $40 coming up, think it would be worth going?

I would recommend the class, spend the $40 and ask for a refund if you don't think it was worth your time. I have been in these types of classes, sometimes they turn into a product pitch more than a nuts and bolts course.
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Mike Leary
11-17-2011, 06:16 PM
The more you know, the better off you are and the more professional you become. If you can't learn it on your own, then go to the cheapy course and ignore people who give advice against learning something new.

Yup, I went to all the courses I heard about until I burned out on donuts. I spent some serious money going to Maxi-Com school and taking my lead. We never installed Maxi, but the course was invaluable for the Rain Masters we were to install years later. :clapping:

DanaMac
11-18-2011, 07:37 AM
Sit in the front, all the city, schools and county boys will be in the back

Yup. I went to a class at Ewing yesterday, and all the gov't agency folks were in the back. I made it a point to take a spot up front, as I always do. But our room is only four rows deep, so being in the back isn't very far. I eventually clammed up because me and one of my employees kept answering most of the instructors questions. I didn't want to be "that guy". :)

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-18-2011, 10:53 AM
Has anybody heard of Mark Grennert? Supposedly he is referred to as the father of two wire. A quick search didn't give me much.

Mike Leary
11-18-2011, 12:41 PM
Has anybody heard of Mark Grennert? Supposedly he is referred to as the father of two wire. A quick search didn't give me much.

I'd always understood 2-wire was a European invention, thus Tucor being on top of the heap.

Sprinkus
11-18-2011, 08:18 PM
Has anybody heard of Mark Grennert? Supposedly he is referred to as the father of two wire. A quick search didn't give me much.

You're way off on that one.
Mark is a salesman at Tucor.
Look here (http://www.igin.com/article-719-larry_sarver.html) instead.
And Danes (http://www.crysberg.dk/), oh those Danes.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-18-2011, 09:12 PM
I got it from somebody else. George Washington didn't discover America but he is the Father of our Country.

Sprinkus
11-18-2011, 09:18 PM
Well, I never wanted to punch George (http://www.asic.org/Tucor.aspx) in the face.

1idejim
11-20-2011, 12:38 PM
Yup. I went to a class at Ewing yesterday, and all the gov't agency folks were in the back. I made it a point to take a spot up front, as I always do. But our room is only four rows deep, so being in the back isn't very far. I eventually clammed up because me and one of my employees kept answering most of the instructors questions. I didn't want to be "that guy". :)

i go to as many of them as possible, sit in the back, take the opportunity to speak to the instructors at the end of the class.

for some reason it has worked well for me.

Mike Leary
11-20-2011, 02:04 PM
i go to as many of them as possible, sit in the back, take the opportunity to speak to the instructors at the end of the class.

Suck-up.....

Rotor_Tool
12-04-2011, 11:14 PM
You're way off on that one.
Mark is a salesman at Tucor.
Look here (http://www.igin.com/article-719-larry_sarver.html) instead.
And Danes (http://www.crysberg.dk/), oh those Danes.

It's funny that this article claims Tucor invented two-wire technology in 1995. If you follow the link, http://www.google.com/patents/US4007458, you will see a patent filed in 1969 by Clemar Mfg. Company located in Azusa, CA. It is no coincidence that this is also home to Rain Bird - in fact, Clemar Mfg. Co was a Rain Bird subsidiary; the name was a combination of Clem and Mary LaFetra's names...for those not familiar, Clem and Mary were the founders of Rain Bird Corp.
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Rotor_Tool
12-04-2011, 11:17 PM
It's funny that this article claims Tucor invented two-wire technology in 1995. If you follow the link, http://www.google.com/patents/US4007458, you will see a patent filed in 1969 by Clemar Mfg. Company located in Azusa, CA. It is no coincidence that this is also home to Rain Bird - in fact, Clemar Mfg. Co was a Rain Bird subsidiary; the name was a combination of Clem and Mary LaFetra's names...for those not familiar, Clem and Mary were the founders of Rain Bird Corp.
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Oops, I read that wrong, it states that Tucor was formed in 1995 with Danes who invented decoder technology...read it too fast!
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Mike Leary
12-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Well, somebody bought the two-wire rights in Europe, because I remember Tucor was the first real player and brought it to the forefront, where they are today.

Sprinkus
12-08-2011, 12:53 PM
The HIT Logic system was the first one I ever used.
Here's a brief history of 2-wire (http://www.igin.com/print-article-217-print.html).

Beer anyone?

Rotor_Tool
12-12-2011, 04:35 AM
Well, somebody bought the two-wire rights in Europe, because I remember Tucor was the first real player and brought it to the forefront, where they are today.

S-Rain Control from Denmark. They manufacture Tucor Controllers and the decoders for Tucor and Rain Bird...maybe others as well.
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Dirt Plumber
01-24-2012, 03:22 PM
My company has installed roughly 20 Tucor systems, maybe the leader in the New England. The failure on a properly installed decoder is less than 1% of 1%. Wiring the decoders and the two wire splice are the keys to success.We monitor almost all jobs remotely from our office, we monitor flow, ET, and some alarms are set up for large breaks.

Wet_Boots
01-24-2012, 03:32 PM
How is this monitoring achieved?

Sprinkus
01-24-2012, 08:14 PM
The failure on a properly installed decoder is less than 1% of 1%.

Yup, and I got all of 'em. :mad:
:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Dirt Plumber
01-25-2012, 07:41 AM
You must install and Air card for each controller to access wirelessly. Of course there is a annual subscription around $200, all water usage is saved for you and can be accessed,to compare years for water usage. I overlooked the fact that the best attribute, is the remote scheduling changes remotely, priceless.

1idejim
04-04-2012, 06:47 PM
The HIT Logic system was the first one I ever used.
Here's a brief history of 2-wire (http://www.igin.com/print-article-217-print.html).

Beer anyone?

last evening i was reading this wiring guide and thought it might be relevent

http://www.paigewire.com/Files/Decoder_Wiring_Guide.pdf

:)

Sprinkus
04-04-2012, 10:20 PM
last evening i was reading this wiring guide and thought it might be relevent

http://www.paigewire.com/Files/Decoder_Wiring_Guide.pdf

:)

You're as bad as Scotty on Star Trek when he wanted to stay on the ship and read technical manuals instead of going on shore leave.
Well, at least you're not getting into trouble with Klingons.

Thanks for the link!
What a great find! :clapping::clapping::clapping:

Mike Leary
04-05-2012, 11:26 AM
You're as bad as Scotty on Star Trek when he wanted to stay on the ship and read technical manuals instead of going on shore leave.

Single guys have more time in their hands. :rolleyes:

the irrigator
04-06-2012, 06:55 AM
Grounding is also critical. Lightning without proper field grounding and you've got trouble.