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Landscape Poet
11-23-2011, 11:24 PM
To my fellow FL Lawn Turds.

I hope all of you are having a good Holiday. I am Thankful to have gotten to know many of you both on this site as well in real life too. I am Thankful to have all of you and hope you have a great Holiday. :dancing::drinkup::drinkup:

Florida Gardener
11-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Thanks, Mike. Lot of valuable info on this site. I am thankful that we are going into the coldest months, and am praying for a freeze or two. I also pray that I pick up more business over the winter.
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billslawn89
11-24-2011, 07:58 AM
Thanks Mike! and Happy Thanksgiving to you as well as all the other floridian professionals here! I am thankful to be alive after this past summer heat, lol and to finally meet my new friend, Ric. He is a very intelligent person! Have a great day everyone! :drinkup:

fl-landscapes
11-24-2011, 10:15 AM
Happy thanksgiving guys. Hope you all have a nice relaxing day with your family and friends.
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jvanvliet
11-24-2011, 10:52 AM
You too & everybody else also. I've learned a lot here and know I'll learn a lot more including about how they do or don't do it up North. :laugh:

:waving: Welcome back Diamond, haven't heard from you for a while.

Thumbs Up

yamadooski
11-25-2011, 09:52 PM
All of you need to bow down to your dictator obamma. It sounds like you are doing as commanded by the "annointed one" and give thanks to the community. Yet not one of you thanked God.
Do some research and see what the first president said on Thankgiving Day.

fl-landscapes
11-25-2011, 11:29 PM
All of you need to bow down to your dictator obamma. It sounds like you are doing as commanded by the "annointed one" and give thanks to the community. Yet not one of you thanked God.
Do some research and see what the first president said on Thankgiving Day.

Being a lifelong registered republican means you couldn't be further of base, now go preach in the religious section.
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fl-landscapes
11-25-2011, 11:31 PM
Getting a history lesson from a guy who can't even spell the current presidents last name is kind of funny though. Thanks for the laugh
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Patriot Services
11-25-2011, 11:37 PM
Religion and politics aside. I am thankful to have lost no friends or family in the last year. Right now I'm thankful for this turkey sammich and an ice cold Sam Adams.
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Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 09:43 AM
All of you need to bow down to your dictator obamma. It sounds like you are doing as commanded by the "annointed one" and give thanks to the community. Yet not one of you thanked God.
Do some research and see what the first president said on Thankgiving Day.

Funny how you call him a dictator and then come on here and suggest I bow down and praise God! What if I had a different faith background?

Patriot Services
11-26-2011, 09:49 AM
I figure in less than a year we will have someone new to ***** about.
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yamadooski
11-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Wow did I hit nerve or what. It just goes to show you how our county is falling apart.
I mispelled that bafoon of a presidents name on purpose.

Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 11:03 AM
I figure in less than a year we will have someone new to ***** about.
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It will not matter much if the party numbers stay similar and they continue to work against each other and us.
Another thing that IMHO must be addressed is the housing market - I do not for see the market rebounding or consumer confidence being great, until the average homeowner which is underwater with their mortgage through no fault of there own in a lot of cases, is assured that it is best not just to walk away from their home, hence creating a further decline.

Here is a example that I not afraid to share. My home at the time of purchase was $287,000 roughly. I put 20% down without issue as I could and still can afford this home without a issue. But here is the problem. Because of all the failed mortgages - my home is now accessed at roughly $167,000 to $187,000 depending on whos numbers you use.

With that said I have no intention of leaving my home and defaulting on my mortgage as I stated I can make the payments and enjoy my home. However, here is the problem. I am continuing to make a payment on a $187K home in the amount of a $287K home payment. From a business standpoint this simply does not make since. If I was looking at it from a business standpoint only - this investment would be cut. Here is were it gets interesting. In the my community/subdivision which has maintained itself well through this and foreclosure are not generally on the market once actually put on the market, I know several people who have entered foreclosure on their properties. The avereage time it takes the banks to actually have them removed and leave the property from the date they stop making a payment of any kind, 2.5 to 3 years.

Now, not all people would view this as a business deal as I do, and many more will share the value in honoring ones debts as I do as their mentality towards this is rather a old school form of thinking I believe.

For those that look at it in a business form they have a lot to think about. If I were to stop making payments on my home today - I know that it will on average take 2.5 years for them to remove me from my property because the banks are so back logged, in many cases they are not even sure who owns the property because of the pure volume on the market in FL especially.
So know I know I am living 2.5 years for rent free no house payment if I walk away. Some of my living expenses that are home based do not change as it is is unlikely that I will not use less electric than I currently do, I will most likely not change my cable program selections, my taxes for property however, well why would I pay them, the state can fight the bank for that out of my 20% plus deposit I put down if they like. I am not paying HOA dues - there is another $1600 a year in my pocket. Why the hell would I water the turf - I do not own this property - savings on the light side $25 a month and most would save much much more. Property improvements or repair upkeep - ummm not giong to happen.
So now that we have some of that covered - guess what - since I view this simply as a business venture - I bank all that savings from not doing this things or making that payments/dues. So I am putting lets go conservative and say $3K a month into a savings account.

Two and half years later.....many other people finally figured out there home is essentially just another business venture in life and did the same thing I did. The market value of the same style home I was living at in my community is now $129K because of the inventory on the market and the banks are overwhelmed. All hell as broken lose in the FL marketplace and I will benefit.

You see by saving that 3K a month while living rent/payment free - I have saved $108K without doing anything extra. Yes my credit history is flawed because I defaulted on my mortgage ...but guess what. The bank simply does not give a Sh*t when I walk in with $108K cash down on a $129K property. Hell they are still to this day giving lawn turds without a lick of business since 0 down loans on brand new $40K trucks to pull there lawn trailer with, you think they will not give me a loan for that house?

Moral of this part of the story - somebody fix the housing market or we are all going to be f8cked as it will not be long before many more will essentially figure out what I have known - being a honorable guy is not always profitable and if they choose not to be and simply do "business" we will see another wave of inventory on the market.


So now that we know what the first issue is - lets move on to the second issue.


Imports - How will we ever create jobs here again for our growing population if we continue to be in competition with other populations that are willing to work more than 40 hours a week in unideal conditions for $2K a year.

We have to find a balance in trade tariff (sorry Tea party folks) so that it balances out the differences or some other solution. If not we will continue to see decline there is no other way about it. I know many many of you will say simply buy American which sounds great...but the product selection has to be available to be purchased from a American producer first. We just expereienced "Black Friday" - which is a huge consumer day in the market place. Guess what most of the big ticket items were. Electronics. Guess what there is a very limited selection to purchase from American Made companies - that is right Electronics. Essentially - we just had a holiday of sorts where we gift wrapped a huge pile of cash with a ribbon - sent it to asian countries were people are happy to work for $2K a year. Merry Christmas to them.
Lets face it - the quality is most likely not going to last as long for example on a TV -the life expectancy of a modern TV is 7 to 8 years according to some statistic I recently heard. At that cost you are spending less than $100 a year in many circumstances on your TV...so when your American Repair man comes to fix it on year 7 - he wants to charge you 6 hours labor at $60 a hour and $200 in parts for a total of $560...the choice is simple ....you simply go to the store and replace your asian made TV with another Asian made TV for a few more hundred if that at this rate for less and the cycle will continue.


Last but not least - Petro prices.

This economy runs on it, lives on it, gobbles it up, can not make it with out it. Every one of us as business owners should be able to see the cost increase we have faced in the last 4 years - let a lone the last 20 when we were buying a gallon for roughly $1.

Now at first thought you may say yes gas is a important part of my business but not that much in the scope of things. But think deeper - every aspect of your life has increased a cost of living/doing business in recent years because of the rise in petro cost. From fertilizers, to the cost of your parts at the mower shop, have your tried buying tires for your truck (which I might add are most likely made outside the states now or by a foreign company). Hell my milk prices have increase significantly at home in the last 3 years, same goes for just about any other consumer good in the market place, and much of the cost increases were brought about from either actual needs or perceived cost increases in business supplying those goods. This is one of the things that frustrated me a little when everyone is worked up over taxes alone. My taxes suck - but they are only part of the issue here- the price of gas, my real estate situation, my grocery bill - those are issues I see everyday and am concerned about more. IMHO these need to be addressed.


One last concern - Got sick this past week. Have insurance. Nobody wants to confront the high cost of medical care anymore. My wife also got sick. Me bronchitus and her a head cold with swollen throat to the point it hurt to eat.

Cost are as follows.

Office visit deductible = $50 X 2 = $100
Cost of Medication AFTER insurance = $60 X2 = $120
$10 X 2 = $20
$45.63 X 1 = 45.63

Total visit cost for us with quality insurance = $285.36

Again this is with insurance. I know that my income is a quality one that many households do not have and can only imagine the impact that a unexpected office visit like this could have on others household budget, especially this time of year when cash outflows are swift and great it seems.

Now my point of this. The medicine that cost $60 each after insurance for a 30 day dose. Retail cost was $186.00. I am for a profit margin in all business buy all means - but this cost seems a little extream. I mean a weed farmer in Mexico can deliver a dime bag to me for - well a dime. So my question is why can this Mexican grow his product from start to finish, travel thousands of miles, pay labor to do all the processes from harvest to delivery.....and my local big pharma dealer can not seem to do this? There is profit - then there is greed if you ask me and Big Pharma does need a reality check.

To support my opinion here. My next door neighbor works for Merck. Reps three drugs. His monthly lunch allowances are well over $2k each month. He gets a new ford car every year, brand new, at no cost to him which he is also allowed to use for personal use as long as no other passagers are in the car other than merck employees. Nice business practice I guess but one I know most likely contributed to my $185.36 in prescription bill yesterday. My point about this rant- political figures on both sides of the aisle are not representing you and I as much as they are Big Pharma these days nor have they for awhile. Why is that? That is one of the few things that most of them can agree on these days, they like political money. While there, how come most politicans are allowed to use sensitive inside information they gain access to from their position in the market place and essentially legally inside trade?

So the point of this whole rant - It is not Obama - not alone at least. Both sides of the aisle are screwed up and as a result - so are we. It does not who arrives in office next if these types of behaviors continue and these type of issues are not addressed IMHO. As I can almost say for certain if they are not we will all be sitting here debating the same kind of stuff and blaming someone, the difference is that some of us may be doing so from a old dial up line as that is all we can afford after our bills, others of us might be doing so from a new home, and some of us could potentially doing so extreamly sick or ignoring our symptoms as we can not truly afford the prescription cost and medical office visits.


Thats just my two cents....

Patriot Services
11-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Wow, give you a pot of coffee, a keyboard and look what comes out. My neighbor pulled a good one. Got his house for 250 in 08. Never made a payment. Saved his payments like you said. 3 yrs later at the last minute he agrees to a short sale. His father inlaw takes the money that was saved and buys the house outright for 56k. Quit claims it back to his son in law. He never moved. Risky? Yes. Timing was everything.
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Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 11:46 AM
Wow, give you a pot of coffee, a keyboard and look what comes out. My neighbor pulled a good one. Got his house for 250 in 08. Never made a payment. Saved his payments like you said. 3 yrs later at the last minute he agrees to a short sale. His father inlaw takes the money that was saved and buys the house outright for 56k. Quit claims it back to his son in law. He never moved. Risky? Yes. Timing was everything.
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Price of 08 Home = $250,000
Price of using your father-in-law and your noggin = Priceless

jvanvliet
11-26-2011, 11:49 AM
:angry: Where is MY "stimulus" check?

All I do is write them to support politicians, overpaid government workers, slackers and illegals.

I thank GOD I still have work and some money left over... for now.

This is America, we don't re-distribute wealth, we earn it! :usflag:

jvanvliet
11-26-2011, 11:53 AM
But tell us how you REALLY feel Michael...:p


*trucewhiteflag*

Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 01:39 PM
But tell us how you REALLY feel Michael...:p


*trucewhiteflag*

I usually do tell you all how I feel, might be pent up for awhile but it usually will make its way to the board in some shape or form ! :laugh:

As far as the redistribution of wealth - there appears to be plenty to go around I guess. I went black friday shopping with my wife over the weekend. We went to one of the outlet malls here and I keep seeing people walking around with these bags from a store called "True Religion". I had not heard of this place and inquired with my wife. She had not heard of it either so we went to inspect why all these people were carrying merchandise from this store, there must be something going on that a simple lawn turd like myself could afford there since so many people were carrying abundent amount of these bags. We arrived at the store front several hours after the opening of the stores - there was still a line way the heck outside of the store! Interesting but I am not waiting to see I tell my wife...I am good on jeans. She heads down yesterday to check out some other stuff, stops in to this store. They sell jeans for $328 a pair. That is right, that is not a typo. For this weekend only you could get them for half off. Now I am not saying that I am the most loaded lawn turd on this board but I would say I make a very comfortable living and I sure as hell would never pay $160 for a pair of jean let alone $328 - not going to happen:nono::nono:

Someone needs to redistrubute some of these idiots wealth my way. I guess I should of handed out business cards to these folks - they would surely see the value in a $900 pallet of sod I would think or paying $35 a K for my L and O guy:laughing::laughing:

Patriot Services
11-26-2011, 02:28 PM
That place is crazy. You can also get a 175 dollar belt to go with them. C'mon Mike all the fashionable lawn turds will be sporting them. You gotta keep up image even as people continue circling the drain.
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Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 02:46 PM
That place is crazy. You can also get a 175 dollar belt to go with them. C'mon Mike all the fashionable lawn turds will be sporting them. You gotta keep up image even as people continue circling the drain.
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I will keep my $10 khaki cargo shorts from wal-mart and bank the other $165

jvanvliet
11-26-2011, 07:41 PM
Most of those idiots don't have the money. They are leveraged to the eyeballs. Cars on leases, 1st, 2nd mortgages... it's all about appearance. They are the ones that are usually slow pay's too.

My wife and I have a modest mortgage, we own our vehicles, all the maintenance company's equipment is paid for. Our credit cards are paid off at the end of the month, etc.

I'm not interested in impressing people with the latest and the greatest. Like you and many others here, I'm happy with my $10.00 Kahkis from WM and the $2.00 long sleeved T-shirts I had printed for $1.25 each. The crews don't care they are $3.25 each, they are happy not to have to pay for them.

My faith tells me "neither a borrower or a lender be", "The poor will always be among us", "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven".

The problem with a lot of religious people is they have bought into the corporate faith and try to jam it down our throats, it's not about religion, it's about relationship.

that's it for me, know I was joking when I said "Tell us how you rally feel". :jester:

Landscape Poet
11-26-2011, 09:04 PM
Most of those idiots don't have the money. They are leveraged to the eyeballs. Cars on leases, 1st, 2nd mortgages... it's all about appearance. They are the ones that are usually slow pay's too.

My wife and I have a modest mortgage, we own our vehicles, all the maintenance company's equipment is paid for. Our credit cards are paid off at the end of the month, etc.

I'm not interested in impressing people with the latest and the greatest. Like you and many others here, I'm happy with my $10.00 Kahkis from WM and the $2.00 long sleeved T-shirts I had printed for $1.25 each. The crews don't care they are $3.25 each, they are happy not to have to pay for them.

My faith tells me "neither a borrower or a lender be", "The poor will always be among us", "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven".

The problem with a lot of religious people is they have bought into the corporate faith and try to jam it down our throats, it's not about religion, it's about relationship.

that's it for me, know I was joking when I said "Tell us how you rally feel". :jester:

Do not forget about the lawn turds pulling around their lawn trailer with $40K brand new shiny trucks that they just bought. I will never understand that. Let me go get a brand new shiny truck so I can take it to work in a dusty environment, have the hell scratched out of it on a daily basis from all the small things, and oh yeah, make sure I get the leather seats so when I get in all sweaty from mowing the truck will eventually begin to smell like a old baseball glove or that old pair of sneakers I did not wear socks with. :rolleyes:

Not sure if you guys have these type of guys as much down south but here in my area it just amazes me day after day how many guys I see driving new trucks. No I am not saying go all sanford and son either but their is a middle of the road which is appropriate in most cases. And personally I generally think less of the guys with the brand new trucks than I do with the guy who is pulling their stuff with a car or some other form as I at least know they understand the value of a dollar - even if it is a lot less these days.

Keith
11-26-2011, 10:05 PM
$40k for a truck? That's low end :D They are less common than they were, but you still see the occasional decked out truck.

I guess whatever works for ya. I have never found a better deal on a year or two-old truck than I can get on a new one. Any older than that, it seems like I am buying someone elses problems. Personally, I prefer new trucks. And then I keep them for ten years. It's mine. It's always been mine. And I know everything about it. I don't get leather or cloth interior. I'll get the truck I want, but not loaded up. Vinyl interior and floors are a must.

Florida Gardener
11-26-2011, 10:31 PM
$40k for a truck? That's low end :D They are less common than they were, but you still see the occasional decked out truck.

I guess whatever works for ya. I have never found a better deal on a year or two-old truck than I can get on a new one. Any older than that, it seems like I am buying someone elses problems. Personally, I prefer new trucks. And then I keep them for ten years. It's mine. It's always been mine. And I know everything about it. I don't get leather or cloth interior. I'll get the truck I want, but not loaded up. Vinyl interior and floors are a must.

I agree. With a new truck you get at least a three year warranty(my tundra is 5 yr/60k on powertrain). I am going to keep my tundra for a long time and when it costs more to fix than to buy new, I will buy a new one. 40k is a little excessive unless you get all the bells and whistles(which I dont at all).
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zturncutter
11-27-2011, 09:25 AM
I agree with buying new and then keeping the truck 10 years about 200,000 miles in my case. Bought my 2006 Tundra new, @ 108,000 miles just replaced u-joints other than that basic maintenance.

jvanvliet
11-27-2011, 09:26 AM
There's going to be some disagreement on this, no doubt.

We have a 1997 F350 7.9 ltr International diesel; 288,000 miles and a 1999 Dodge 3500 Cummings 5.9 Diesel 167,000 miles. The trucks were bought used, we've had them now for 5 and 7 years respectively.

No major problems, the usual maintenance, tires, brakes, filters, etc. We paid $5,500 and $ 9,000. respectively and have put about 100,000 miles on them (little more on the Dodge).

I can still get somewhere around $5,000 for the Ford and about $7,500 for the Dodge. Doing the math, I think we are doing OK. I couldn't beat the operating cost per mile with a new truck. I save big on insurance too since I dont need comprehensive.

We are always on the look out for young used mowers, blowers and handhelds too. Lot of the "I've failed at everything else so I'm going to Florida to cut grass" crowd burn out right about now, and bail out of the stuff they bought new.

I've yearned for a brand spanking new F350 King Ranch; but when I really think about it? I've been provided with exactly what I need. With a brand new truck I wouldn't want to get it dirty, dump gear or garbage in the bed, worry about scratching it, not to mention the nut I'd have to crack every month, etc.

And so I'm content with my provision; contentment comes not in getting what I want, contentment comes in wanting what I have!

Trailers on the other hand...

zturncutter
11-27-2011, 09:39 AM
I have ran new and used Fords and had good service out of them as well. I think the most important thing to do is buy at the right price new or used. I went to the dealer first when I bought my last and got his best price LOL, then went online and got a quote from one of the online new truck sellers, which of course was thousands less. I called the salesman at the dealer told him I would not be buying from them and why and faxed a copy of the deal from the online dealer and suddenly they could match it, so I bought from them and saved a trip to Tampa.

GreenT
11-27-2011, 09:45 AM
.

Man... what happened to this thread? :laugh:

.

fl-landscapes
11-27-2011, 09:46 AM
Wow did I hit nerve or what. It just goes to show you how our county is falling apart.
I mispelled that bafoon of a presidents name on purpose.

More like you came in and attacked us for being civil and wishing each other a happy thanksgiving. Some how you twisted it into a crazy rant about Obama and religion. It was a nice thread until you chimes in with your b.s.
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Patriot Services
11-27-2011, 09:47 AM
Guys enjoying the weekend BS'ing back and forth. Not thinking about coming and peeing in the pool are you GT?
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Florida Gardener
11-27-2011, 09:49 AM
There's going to be some disagreement on this, no doubt.

We have a 1997 F350 7.9 ltr International diesel; 288,000 miles and a 1999 Dodge 3500 Cummings 5.9 Diesel 167,000 miles. The trucks were bought used, we've had them now for 5 and 7 years respectively.

No major problems, the usual maintenance, tires, brakes, filters, etc. We paid $5,500 and $ 9,000. respectively and have put about 100,000 miles on them (little more on the Dodge).

I can still get somewhere around $5,000 for the Ford and about $7,500 for the Dodge. Doing the math, I think we are doing OK. I couldn't beat the operating cost per mile with a new truck. I save big on insurance too since I dont need comprehensive.

We are always on the look out for young used mowers, blowers and handhelds too. Lot of the "I've failed at everything else so I'm going to Florida to cut grass" crowd burn out right about now, and bail out of the stuff they bought new.

I've yearned for a brand spanking new F350 King Ranch; but when I really think about it? I've been provided with exactly what I need. With a brand new truck I wouldn't want to get it dirty, dump gear or garbage in the bed, worry about scratching it, not to mention the nut I'd have to crack every month, etc.

And so I'm content with my provision; contentment comes not in getting what I want, contentment comes in wanting what I have!

Trailers on the other hand...

Ivan I agree with what your saying too. The only thing when buying an old vehicle is you just don't know what your going to get. You can get a gem that is in awesome shape and well taken care of or something you have to keep doing money into. Sounds like you got stuff that are working great though. I have heard many people getting 300k out of thier tundra, and that is exactly what I plan on doing with mine.
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GreenT
11-27-2011, 09:50 AM
Not thinking about coming and peeing in the pool are you GT?


Who me?.... nah. :rolleyes:

The water is plenty warm already..... :)

.

fl-landscapes
11-27-2011, 10:01 AM
Price of 08 Home = $250,000
Price of using your father-in-law and your noggin = Priceless

Mike, you know I like you so don't take this the wrong way. But you can put me in that "old school" thinker category. All our houses in Florida are de valued but for me I would never squat in a house rent free and treat my personal obligation like a business. For me the biggest problem with the economy and this country is that there aren't enough old school thinkers anymore. The walk away and let someone else suffer for our actions is what gets us into these messes. As a matter of fact even in business I wouldn't walk away from a deal just because it didnt turn out the way I intended it too. It would be a lesson learned and not repeated. You win some and you lose some.
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GreenT
11-27-2011, 10:10 AM
.

And about to get warmer..... :)

.

Patriot Services
11-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Mike, you know I like you so don't take this the wrong way. But you can put me in that "old school" thinker category. All our houses in Florida are de valued but for me I would never squat in a house rent free and treat my personal obligation like a business. For me the biggest problem with the economy and this country is that there aren't enough old school thinkers anymore. The walk away and let someone else suffer for our actions is what gets us into these messes. As a matter of fact even in business I wouldn't walk away from a deal just because it didnt turn out the way I intended it too. It would be a lesson learned and not repeated. You win some and you lose some.
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You can also look at it from the standpoint of the banks never expected the loan to succeed to maturity. I'd say he beat the banks at their own game.
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zturncutter
11-27-2011, 10:21 AM
.

Man... what happened to this thread? :laugh:

.

Just like any other conversation a group of guys might have, the conversation naturally flows to different subjects related to the people in the conversation.:laugh:

Ric
11-27-2011, 10:30 AM
You can also look at it from the standpoint of the banks never expected the loan to succeed to maturity. I'd say he beat the banks at their own game.
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Patriot

There is a Legal and Moral Issue here. In many people's eyes Legally he is good, Morally he is a skunk.

Patriot Services
11-27-2011, 10:37 AM
No more than the realtor, appraiser and mortgage broker that all conspired to sell a product worth twice what any house in the area was worth. Morals have gone out the window on all fronts these days.
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GreenT
11-27-2011, 10:51 AM
.

"Sometimes, only the courts of law stand to protect the taxpayer. Somewhere, someone has to stand up. Well, sometimes is now, and the place is the Great State of Georgia. The defendant's motion to dismiss is hereby denied."

"This court cannot imagine why U.S. Bank will not make known to Mr. Phillips, a taxpayer, how his numbers put him outside the federal guidelines to receive a loan modification.

Taking $20 billion of taxpayer money was no problem for U.S. Bank. A cynical judge might believe that this entire motion to dismiss is a desperate attempt to avoid a discovery period, where U.S. Bank would have to tell Mr. Phillips how his financial situation did not qualify him for a modification.

If Phillips didn't qualify, why didn't the bank say so with "mathematic equations, pie charts, and bar graphs, all on 8 by 10 glossy photo paper, with circles and arrows and paragraphs on the back explaining each winning number"?

"Maybe U.S. Bank no longer has any of the $20 billion left, and so their lack of written explanation might be attributed to some kind of ink reduction program to save money. Clearly, U.S. Bank cannot take the money, contract with our government to provide a service to the taxpayer, violate that agreement, and then say no one on earth can sue them for it. That is not the law in Georgia."



With plenty of sarcasm.... a tiny example of banks' morality.

http://boingboing.net/2011/11/26/judge-exercises-extreme-sarcas.html

.

Ric
11-27-2011, 11:01 AM
No more than the realtor, appraiser and mortgage broker that all conspired to sell a product worth twice what any house in the area was worth. Morals have gone out the window on all fronts these days.
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Patriot

Some of us still have a conscience and have to look in a mirror each morning to shave.

jvanvliet
11-27-2011, 11:03 AM
:angry:

Ultimatly the guys who make their mortgage payments, keep their obligations & pay their taxes foot the bill. Where do you think all the "bail out" money is going to come from?

One way or another the working man is going to get the poop end of the stick. In the meantime the very rich, the politicians and the very poor, none of whom have a vested interest in the economy (because they don't suffer the consequences of bad decisions), will continue to do well while the guy who busts his donkey sees his standard of living go down the tubes.

Maybe I should go ahead and buy that dream King Ranch and default on the loan.

2012 Ford 350 King Ranch: $52,000

Letting you working guys pick up the tab: Priceless

GreenT
11-27-2011, 11:24 AM
One way or another the working man is going to get the poop end of the stick.


And isn't that always the way it works out? The American way? :)

How many bankers and WS firms that sliced mortgages into a million slivers and put them in the gigantic derivatives blender to be sold as triple A investment have gone to jail? The same cabal that knowing the toxicity of the paper they were selling proceeded to buy/sell CDSs to protect themselves... The very same CDSs in the trillions that almost brought western capitalism to its knees...

The people that wiped out $15 trillion worth of wealth from America's middle class in the largest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen...

How many?

And the crowd goes.... Zero! Yay! :clapping:

But don't get me started.... it's a nice weekend. :)

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Patriot Services
11-27-2011, 11:45 AM
Sooooo......who's watching the Bucaneers today?
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Landscape Poet
11-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Mike, you know I like you so don't take this the wrong way. But you can put me in that "old school" thinker category. All our houses in Florida are de valued but for me I would never squat in a house rent free and treat my personal obligation like a business. For me the biggest problem with the economy and this country is that there aren't enough old school thinkers anymore. The walk away and let someone else suffer for our actions is what gets us into these messes. As a matter of fact even in business I wouldn't walk away from a deal just because it didnt turn out the way I intended it too. It would be a lesson learned and not repeated. You win some and you lose some.
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Not taken the long way. My post came off at the wrong manner maybe, but I think if you reread it, you will see I am one of those who think that you should honor your obiligations and that is why I am still making my payment. My issue is like you say, not many I feel have this since of obligation anymore, and are willing to do this. As more and more people see the negative effect their home has on their balance sheet, I suspect more and more houses will be dropped on the market, further down the drain we go as the inventory gets deeper and deeper.

Keith
11-27-2011, 12:20 PM
Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving :) Back to work tomorrow.

jvanvliet
11-27-2011, 05:42 PM
And isn't that always the way it works out? The American way? :)

The people that wiped out $15 trillion worth of wealth from America's middle class in the largest transfer of wealth the world has ever seen...

How many?

And the crowd goes.... Zero! Yay! :clapping:

But don't get me started.... it's a nice weekend. :)

.

Don't forget to throw in the legislated relaxation of FNM & GNM standards that forced them to lend outside of base financial standards creating "don't ask don't tell" mortgages available to anyone without documentation. This caused a huge demand for capital creating an environment for WS to capitalize on the demand by creating derivitives and selling them to the public.

The public in turn, like a herd of lemmings, began a greedy drunken orgy of real estate speculation lying on their applications in order to secure mortgages on properties they had no intention of living in but selling to the next greedy sucker. It was all a monumental Daisy chain with legitimate homeowners getting screwed and the greedy geeting what they deserved.

But that's "not fair". So because all of these scumbags were lying greedy and selfish. Now the working man gets to pay for it

GreenT
11-27-2011, 07:53 PM
Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving :) Back to work tomorrow.


Same here. :)

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stickleylawncare
11-28-2011, 11:14 AM
Going away for a week and having to catch up on lawnsite is almost as bad as a full email inbox! Anyway, hope everyone had a great thanksgiving.... and Christmas is just around the corner. :drinkup:

zturncutter
11-28-2011, 11:40 AM
I think I gained 5lbs over the weekend.:dancing:

Ric
11-28-2011, 12:20 PM
I think I gained 5lbs over the weekend.:dancing:



Thursday I gained 3 1/2 pounds that made me feel very uncomfortable. Friday Morning I ran it off.

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