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steveparrott
12-09-2011, 05:19 PM
Everyone seems to be sharing their latest-greatest products, so here's one that's very different from the crowd.

The new CAST Lighting LED Bullet (CBLED141) is engineered for survival in hot humid environments and has an L70 of 60,000 hrs.

It uses a sophisticated module recently recognized by the IES Progress Committee as providing ďan advancement in the art and science of lighting.Ē

A few details about this module: Changeable optics for beam spreads of 41, 21, and 12 degrees; a brightness switch to change between 20w and 35w (equivalent incandescent wattage); accepts 9.6v to 28.8v AC or DC; microprocessor-based control system; LEDSense thermal control (automatically reduces current if module over-heats); dynamic transformer recognition (optimizes performance based on electronic or magnetic transformer type); dimmable; no capacitors in drive current; UL, RoHS, and FCC compliant (no EMI problems); and, of course, the module is replaceable.

The difference between this module mounted on our specially-designed bullet body and other MR-16 LED's inside a closed environment is huge. There have been an alarming number of failures in the field.

The fixture will be available by 1/15/12, pre-orders are encouraged. A couple weeks later, a tree light (CTLED141) using the same module will be released.

For more details, click here (http://www.cast-lighting.com/__userfiles/file/documents/cast-cbled141.pdf).

bcg
12-09-2011, 05:25 PM
I had a chance to put my hands on one of these a few weeks ago when Bruce was in town for a training seminar. It's a very nice fixture. I'm hoping to get a sample from my supplier soon so that I can start to play with it some.

Classic Lighting
12-09-2011, 06:44 PM
Very nice, I'm impressed. Will this fixture accept lenses?

Alan B
12-09-2011, 06:46 PM
Steve,

Those features sound awesome. Especially like the ac/dc, magnetic or electronic trans, auto shut off and low vs high power switch. Very nice!

Sincerely,

Alan

steveparrott
12-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Very nice, I'm impressed. Will this fixture accept lenses?

Yes. Just enough space for a single optical lens or hexcell louver.

steveparrott
12-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Steve,

Those features sound awesome. Especially like the ac/dc, magnetic or electronic trans, auto shut off and low vs high power switch. Very nice!

Sincerely,

Alan

Thanks Alan.

Richie@
12-10-2011, 10:06 AM
Yes. Just enough space for a single optical lens or hexcell louver.


Cutting edge as usual , nice work Cast.

irrig8r
12-13-2011, 02:03 PM
Looks good. Specs seem very well thought out.

NightScenes
12-13-2011, 02:53 PM
Rich showed me one of these last week and it looks sweet. I'm looking forward to putting one to the test very soon.

NELS PETERSON
12-21-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm planning on ordering 54 for a project in the Keys this winter. Just what I wanted for Christmas

BrandonV
12-21-2011, 03:01 PM
i like the idea. dimmer switch is cool as is the changeable lenses.

steveparrott
12-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm planning on ordering 54 for a project in the Keys this winter. Just what I wanted for Christmas

Great! I'll see you at the AOLP mtg. in Feb. We'll have the LED Tree Light by then.

jana
12-21-2011, 06:32 PM
Looking forward to both!

This appears like what Janet Lennox Moyer discussed here (http://www.janmoyerdesign.com/IESjanLF.pdf).

niteliters
12-22-2011, 07:26 AM
Looking forward to seeing them both during the expo at the A.O.L.P. conference Steve

NightScenes
12-22-2011, 12:53 PM
Yee Haw, more cool stuff at the AOLP Expo!

indylights
12-22-2011, 03:59 PM
I saw a sample working at night last week. A lot of other manufacturers have some serious catching up to do. The color and output are incredible, as well as the integrated LED module being field replaceable. No more thrown away fixtures. For everyone who knows what the figures actually mean, check out their spec sheet. Pretty impressive.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

David Gretzmier
12-26-2011, 05:28 PM
very nice looking fixture. Love all the features. few questions-

any night time photos of this fixture in action side by side a traditional halogen 20 watt or 35 watt at 11.5 volts to compare?

I am sure this was discussed in a thread or several threads while I have been gone from the site, but Is L70 60,0000 hour rating the hour point where lumens drop below 70% of rating?

and I really do want to know, how does that rating come about? Is there some accelerated UL test? I know it would take about 7 years left on 24/7 to get to 60,000 hours, so I am guessing there must be some formula or test to arrive at that estimate.

finally, what warranty will cast provide with this fixture that I can pass on to my clients?

steveparrott
12-26-2011, 06:23 PM
very nice looking fixture. Love all the features. few questions-

any night time photos of this fixture in action side by side a traditional halogen 20 watt or 35 watt at 11.5 volts to compare?
Sorry, no comparison photos yet, but I was just at a test project and was very impressed with the color, brightness, and uniformity of beam. We illuminated the side of a three story house - it was beautiful!

I am sure this was discussed in a thread or several threads while I have been gone from the site, but Is L70 60,0000 hour rating the hour point where lumens drop below 70% of rating?
Correct.

and I really do want to know, how does that rating come about? Is there some accelerated UL test? I know it would take about 7 years left on 24/7 to get to 60,000 hours, so I am guessing there must be some formula or test to arrive at that estimate.
The IESNA LM-80 test for LED chips specifies that LED's need to be tested for a minimum of 6,000 hrs. L70 is then calculated by method TM-21. This method extrapolates the data to the L70 point. Since extrapolations have limited accuracy, LM-80 only allows claims of L70 up to 6 times the test length. So, a 6,000 hr. test can claim up to 36,000 hrs.; while a 10,000 hr. test can claim up to 60,000 hrs.

Note, however, as with our old incandescent life claims, the LM-80 test is conducted only on the chip (not in the fixture). There is no lifetime test for the complete LED-fixture combination. It is up to the fixture manufacturer to ensure a favorable environment for the LED. Excess temperature, poorly designed or damaged drivers, water damage - all these can reduce the actual life dramatically.

finally, what warranty will cast provide with this fixture that I can pass on to my clients?
It's been a challenge to decide on a reasonable warranty. One of our competitors greatly inflated his. The industry standard for quality LED fixture or lamp warranties is 3 to 5 years. We set ours at 5, but have every reason to believe that our LED products will survive many times that number.

S&MLL
12-26-2011, 06:37 PM
5 years?


Really
Posted via Mobile Device

steveparrott
12-26-2011, 07:00 PM
5 years?
Really
Posted via Mobile Device

A few things to understand about warranties.

1. It is often the case that warranties do not reflect the actual quality of the product. They are often used as a marketing ploy.

2. Look at the fine print in the warranties. Restricted to original owner? Purchase cost not fully refunded (time of use is deducted)? System must be registered with mfg. within a month? System must be composed entirely of the mfg. products? Any sign of moisture damage voids the warranty? Any evidence of over-voltage operation voids the warranty?

3. If company is sold or goes out of business, all warranties are void.

4. As I said, the industry standard for LED's is 3 to 5 years - similar to all electronic products. Warranties that go far beyond that have either limited their liability through the fine print, or they add dollars to the fixture price to pay for an extended warranty.

5. If you find a homeowner objecting to a 5-year warranty, explain these points, point out the quality and features of the product. No homeowner wants their fixtures to fail during the warranty period and go through the hassle and expense of hiring you to replace the product.

6. The best warranty is one you never have to use.

S&MLL
12-26-2011, 09:47 PM
A few things to understand about warranties.

1. It is often the case that warranties do not reflect the actual quality of the product. They are often used as a marketing ploy.

2. Look at the fine print in the warranties. Restricted to original owner? Purchase cost not fully refunded (time of use is deducted)? System must be registered with mfg. within a month? System must be composed entirely of the mfg. products? Any sign of moisture damage voids the warranty? Any evidence of over-voltage operation voids the warranty?

3. If company is sold or goes out of business, all warranties are void.

4. As I said, the industry standard for LED's is 3 to 5 years - similar to all electronic products. Warranties that go far beyond that have either limited their liability through the fine print, or they add dollars to the fixture price to pay for an extended warranty.

5. If you find a homeowner objecting to a 5-year warranty, explain these points, point out the quality and features of the product. No homeowner wants their fixtures to fail during the warranty period and go through the hassle and expense of hiring you to replace the product.

6. The best warranty is one you never have to use.


There is a reason I dont buy an extended warranty at best buy.

But Im pretty Kichler has none of that in their warranty. And 15 years on a powdercoated fixture is pretty amazing .... considering they are even honoring it on the finish :dancing:

As per your #6 I also agree with you. But if Cast doesnít think anyone will have to use the warranty then why not bump it up? Knowing most of your product is pushed within your own distributor chains donít you have faith that you will not have bogus claims on damaged goods. I know for a fact Aquarius has never said just field destroy something.

Fixture looks great and sounds amazing. Would like to see at least 10 year but hey my last name isnít Beausoleil.

S&MLL
12-26-2011, 09:50 PM
This reminds me of the scene from tommy boy with the warranty on the box.

steveparrott
12-26-2011, 09:57 PM
There is a reason I dont buy an extended warranty at best buy.

But Im pretty Kichler has none of that in their warranty. And 15 years on a powdercoated fixture is pretty amazing .... considering they are even honoring it on the finish :dancing:

You might want to confirm that.

David Gretzmier
12-27-2011, 02:17 AM
You guys tested the fixtures for 10,000 hours? gotta admit, that is impressive, pretty much 13 months at 24 hours a day.

a warranty makes the end user feel more comfortable about their purchase. If I offer a warranty and my competition does not, often it appears that I stand behind my work and I can ask a premium price. the same might be true of a 1 year verses a 3 year and so on. we only do a year warranty with halogen, but we cover all items. when we do yearly maintenance-rebulbs, we add another year, but we get compensated for the service. That compensation covers our costs for future warranty repairs. But if we install systems right and volt things properly, there should be minimal repair costs and we add profit over the long run.

It is easier as an installer to charge a higher price for a system or product if we feel comfortable knowing our warranty costs in the future. I have little doubt 99% of the fixtures, wire, transformers, connections will cost me very little in warranty repairs over the next 10 years. the last 10 years tells me that. I also know my bulb costs. But what nobody knows is the cost to repair or replace these LED fixtures over the next 1, 3, 7 years. nobody has had them in the field that long to know. we only know what a fixture costs to buy and how long the manufacturer is willing to replace or repair it for free.

I can understand you guys want to kind of go with what the industry standard is on warranty. But then That fixture don't exactly look like an industry standard LED fixture. It looks better and sounds like it performs better. and although I have not checked, I am not so sure it is priced like one either. If I am going to sell a premium fixture at a premium price, then a premium warranty seems reasonable. If you run the fixture 12 hours a night, for 10 years.you would still have a few years left at the 60,000 hour rating. a 10 year warranty with labor covered is what I would offer my clients if they had a simple photocell, and we were compensated to return yearly to clean lenses and trim back foliage and aim. with no maintenace, I would just give them the Cast warranty information and not provide labor.

indylights
12-27-2011, 06:05 AM
You might want to confirm that.

I would highly recommend you confirm that. Read the Kichler warranty on their website. If you buy the aluminum powder coated, which almost everyone I know who buys Kichler does, it's 5 years on the housing, plus there's a ton of other qualifiers. This has been discussed at length in a different thread, and in the end it all comes down to what you are comfortable with, but to make it sound like their warranty is 15 years on the housing of an aluminum fixture is 100% incorrect.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

S&MLL
12-27-2011, 07:58 PM
From http://www.landscapelighting.com/portal/warranty_page

Low Voltage Outdoor Products Design Pro LED used for single family residences for fifteen(15) years or 40,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the Light Engine and all other electrical components. These same Products for commercial use for ten (10) years or 40,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the Light Engine and all other electrical components


Since the LED is not replaceable it turns the fixture into a 15 year warranty.

What more would you like me to confirm Steve?

S&MLL
12-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Im still excited for the Cast fixture and cant wait to play with one. Just really wish you guys would extend that 5 year mark

indylights
12-27-2011, 08:55 PM
From http://www.landscapelighting.com/portal/warranty_page

Low Voltage Outdoor Products Design Pro LED used for single family residences for fifteen(15) years or 40,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the Light Engine and all other electrical components. These same Products for commercial use for ten (10) years or 40,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the Light Engine and all other electrical components


Since the LED is not replaceable it turns the fixture into a 15 year warranty.

What more would you like me to confirm Steve?

I don't want to hijack this thread off the original post, since the warranty issue has been discussed elsewhere. But if you read the next few lines of that warranty, it clearly states that aluminum housing is only covered five years. What if the housing fails in the sixth year, and like you said, since the LED can't be replaced, it has just turned that fixture into a five year warranty fixture. If you want to debate this, that's great, we can do that, but lets start a new thread on that and not take away from the original thought of the thread.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

LLC RI
12-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Steve,
I just talked to my distributor to get pricing on the tree light. I've been working with a condo association and it looks like I'll finally do the job in the spring. I had been planning on using some Aurora copper/brass bullet lights outfitted with Illumicare MR16 LED's, but now that this fixture will be available, and the project is on the water, I have opted to spec the new Cast LED Tree Light. I'm anxious to give it a try!.

Thanks

George