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Waterlogged
12-20-2011, 11:54 AM
We empathize with the Illinois Irrigators.

There has been a continuing battle in the State of Texas with plumbers pushing to get control over irrigation. If not for the dedicated people who fight the constant legislative items that are promoted by the plumbers in Texas, we, as Licensed Irrigators, would have ceased to exist.

The information in this article illustrates the continuing battle in Illinois.
http://www.lawnandlandscape.com/ll-1219-Irrigation-Illinois-plumbing-license-law.aspx

Wet_Boots
12-20-2011, 12:10 PM
it's going to be a Nation of Trunk-Slammers at this rate

Mike Leary
12-20-2011, 12:21 PM
I followed that case with interest, I.A. poured all they had into defeating that bill, but, as we know, the plumbers have deeper pockets than we do. :hammerhead:

txirrigation
12-20-2011, 02:22 PM
I followed that case with interest, I.A. poured all they had into defeating that bill, but, as we know, the plumbers have deeper pockets than we do. :hammerhead:

Not so much deeper pockets as it is a bigger group.

There are a lot more plumbers out there than dedicated Irrigators. As Irrigators we have the unique opportunity to (sometimes) come on the job after construction is done and to be hired directly by the home owner. This cuts out the middle man (read contractor) which lets us put more money in our pockets. The plumbing installs are always done through the contractor, which cuts into the profit margin. Most of the time the contractor goes with the lowest bid, because he can keep an eye on it and it is inspected.

Because we work directly with the home owner we can sell up-grades, and also the cheapest man usually does not win.

On the other hand I also work for some high end custom home builders, and they definitely sink their teeth into my profit. It would suck to be a plumber.

Kiril
12-20-2011, 04:24 PM
Plumbers don't have a clue about irrigation ..... but then neither do most irrigators. :cry:

irritation
12-20-2011, 04:36 PM
I know I would resign if they said I have to be a "Licensed Plumber"

They can have it, I'm not about to go through all that crap.:hammerhead:

The plumbers aren't going to do what we do and it's going to cost the homeowners money and quality.:confused:

txirrigation
12-20-2011, 05:11 PM
Plumbers don't have a clue about irrigation ..... but then neither do most irrigators. :cry:

Amen. Although I have to believe they know better than what they do.

GreenLight
12-20-2011, 07:54 PM
It's just such an odd battle. I have yet to ever meet a plumber that has any interest in digging, much less operating a trencher. In fact, the plumber I use for taps calls me whenever he gets hit up by the homeowner about irrigation work because he has zero interest...

Mike Leary
12-20-2011, 08:01 PM
I fought the plumber's lobby in WA about backflow; they wanted complete discretion. In one public meeting with the State and local purveyors, I got up and said, "we sprinkler guys know a fu=ck more about backflow than you dorks do." That calmed everyone down, including me, but I was still pissed. The State finally gave sprinkler BAT testers the right to service assemblies within a premise, but not to remove them, that was in the plumber's world. I thought I'd done my best, and ,cripes (not that I let on) I'd have called the plumbers anyways if the assembly needed to be removed from the interior.:waving:

zman9119
12-20-2011, 08:50 PM
Illinois just sucks so much that they will let it expire and screw the entire industry. Guess I have a year to find a new job.

Mike Leary
12-20-2011, 09:02 PM
Illinois just sucks so much that they will let it expire and screw the entire industry. Guess I have a year to find a new job.

Last I heard, Illinois was requiring low-voltage lighting installs being installed (or supervised) by an electrician. Geez, how to wreck our trade. :hammerhead:

zman9119
12-20-2011, 09:10 PM
Last I heard, Illinois was requiring low-voltage lighting installs being installed (or supervised) by an electrician. Geez, how to wreck our trade. :hammerhead:

If it does, it is not enforced. Our lighting department doesn't use one (except for new 110v taps)

But, then again, according to City of Chicago code, only a licensed electrician can do any low-voltage connection (including connecting irrigation control wire to a controller or valve). Plus they have to be in conduit \ completely sealed (all wiring, all connections, etc.).

But then again, Illinois is so great that 4 out our last 9 governors have \ are going to prison.

txirrigation
12-20-2011, 09:54 PM
If it does, it is not enforced. Our lighting department doesn't use one (except for new 110v taps)

But, then again, according to City of Chicago code, only a licensed electrician can do any low-voltage connection (including connecting irrigation control wire to a controller or valve). Plus they have to be in conduit \ completely sealed (all wiring, all connections, etc.).

But then again, Illinois is so great that 4 out our last 9 governors have \ are going to prison.

This is where Unions get you...

Mike Leary
12-20-2011, 09:58 PM
This is where Unions get you...

Unions are only applicable for backflow assemblies.

mitchgo
12-20-2011, 10:46 PM
anyone else have rain bird on fb?

Rain Bird

Should all irrigation professionals be required to have a plumbing license? If Illinois's Irrigation Registration Law is repealed on Jan 1, 2013 as anticipated, every person on an irrigation job site--even those who are digging or supervising--would need to be a licensed plumber or a licensed apprentice plumber. What are your thoughts?

AI Inc
12-21-2011, 06:55 AM
If it does, it is not enforced. Our lighting department doesn't use one (except for new 110v taps)

But, then again, according to City of Chicago code, only a licensed electrician can do any low-voltage connection (including connecting irrigation control wire to a controller or valve). Plus they have to be in conduit \ completely sealed (all wiring, all connections, etc.).

But then again, Illinois is so great that 4 out our last 9 governors have \ are going to prison.

Used to be that way here too.Local association hired one of them there lobbiests thats boots loves to hate and we got the law changed.

And dont feel bad, the last 3 speakers of the house in mass were indicted, latest was sentenced a few weeks back.

GreenI.A.
12-21-2011, 05:10 PM
And dont feel bad, the last 3 speakers of the house in mass were indicted, latest was sentenced a few weeks back.

Yeah, Illinois makes MA look good.


RI had something similar passed a few years ago, saying you must be licensed to do irrigation. Of course the plumbing union got their hands on it and all licensed plumbers are also covered to do irrigation. After that passed, you started seeing plumbers advertising for irrigation systems

greenmonster304
12-21-2011, 05:40 PM
The worst system I have seen was installed by a plumber with an irrigation division.
Posted via Mobile Device

txgrassguy
12-21-2011, 05:47 PM
The worst system I have seen was installed by a plumber with an irrigation division.
Posted via Mobile Device

Same for me too. Dude slams in a centrifugal pump of maybe 30 gpm, runs a 2" poly pipe all over the yard, has only one station, last count had over twenty different types of heads and no where compliant with TCEQ regs - and the zipper head got paid something like 4 grand for it according to the client who hired me to straighten it all out.

GreenI.A.
12-21-2011, 06:25 PM
Last winter/early spring I posted about a job I did, Homeowner owns a plumbing supply house and insisted he could install the system himself. He used all PVC, and then the irrigation components he didn't carry, he bought from HD or Lowes. He never shut the system down or blew it out last winter. He ended up hiring us to come back and install his second system because the first was messed up beyond repair. The best part, my final price was above what we had originally quoted to do the job the year before

Mike Leary
12-21-2011, 07:51 PM
Last winter/early spring I posted about a job I did, Homeowner owns a plumbing supply house and insisted he could install the system himself. He used all PVC, and then the irrigation components he didn't carry, he bought from HD or Lowes. He never shut the system down or blew it out last winter. He ended up hiring us to come back and install his second system because the first was messed up beyond repair. The best part, my final price was above what we had originally quoted to do the job the year before

I remember that post, what happened is called a number of things: karma and justice come to mind.

greenmonster304
12-22-2011, 09:00 AM
Same for me too. Dude slams in a centrifugal pump of maybe 30 gpm, runs a 2" poly pipe all over the yard, has only one station, last count had over twenty different types of heads and no where compliant with TCEQ regs - and the zipper head got paid something like 4 grand for it according to the client who hired me to straighten it all out.

The system I am thinking of had the POC tapped after the water softener on the well. The pressure was hardly enough to pop the heads. That was just the begining of the problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

DanaMac
12-22-2011, 09:18 AM
The system I am thinking of had the POC tapped after the water softener on the well. The pressure was hardly enough to pop the heads. That was just the begining of the problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

Seen that many times.
Below is a photo from a system on a well I have worked on for many years. Two or three years ago, some guy convinced them they needed some new kind of softener. He was claiming the water in the area was going to eat away their copper pipes, could be true, but that's not the point. Well, I fought with it the entire summer because he put it in before the POC, and all this b*****t was getting in the RP, valves, drip emitters, etc. No spray heads or those would have been clogged. He was pissed when we had him change it the other side, and had to pay all my numerous service calls to flush things out. Valves kept seeping all year, even after flushing numerous times, and replacing diaphragms numerous times. Took almost a year to get all the crap out. One problem, was that we never realized there was a tee on the copper stub out, which also went to the front of the house. That end was just capped off so it held a lot of the mineral/crap that was for the "softener".
The photo shows some of the junk from the system.