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View Full Version : advice on gas or diesel, etc.


Surferbum21
01-13-2012, 01:06 AM
The older I get the wiser I get. I bought an 08 F-250 Lariat to work out of (yes, young dumb and full of...) Well I am not wanting to downgrade and get a straight work truck that I don't have to worry about putting dents & scratches in. I got diesel b/c I pull a trailer 7 days a week and told best option. One of my buddies uses all gas trucks in f-250 and says gets 16-18 mpg pulling (I think bs b/c I get 10 in my diesel).

I am really just trying to get others opinions on gas vs diesel when pulling 18 ft trailer loaded down as well as how many miles is too many miles? I'm looking at a couple 2004 f250 w 125,000 miles for around $13000. I don't mind spending more but trying to get the best truck for the lowest amount but I would rather spend more $ and not have a truck breaking down all the time.

hosejockey2002
01-13-2012, 10:39 PM
Yes, I also think your buddy is full of sh&! because I get 10 towing with my Chevy 6.0 if I'm lucky.

If you're looking at Fords in the 2005 age range you probably know about the 6.0 diesel. They pull really strong but there are certain things that are prone to expensive failures. For about $5K you can make modifications to make them reliable. Welcome to the new age of diesels, where if you delete this, modify that and monitor these other things carefully you can have a very powerful, economical and reliable truck. If you don't you may end up with a very powerful money pit.

With gas engines you sacrifice towing power and fuel mileage, but in return you get in the truck, turn the key and drive away without worrying about deleting your EGR or your DPF clogging with soot, or when you can sneak in your next regen.

If you can find a V10 truck in good shape, jump on it. The 5.4 will do the job but you may find it lacking for power, especially compared to your 6.4 diesel.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
01-14-2012, 08:08 PM
Depends on how many miles you run, hilly or flat terrain, how much weight your pulling, are you hooking to other heavier loads besides mowers (eg:tractor, mini ex, etc).
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Surferbum21
01-15-2012, 05:03 PM
Depends on how many miles you run, hilly or flat terrain, how much weight your pulling, are you hooking to other heavier loads besides mowers (eg:tractor, mini ex, etc).
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no mainly 18 ft trailer with one sometimes two ztrs and 3 walk behinds. sometimes three pallets of sod but never overload the 7K# trailer load. On weekends pull a boat but nothing too big. I do pull bobcat in winter when doing snow removal but so far this year no snow in oklahoma.

I'm really thinking of doing one 4x4 diesel truck to do main work out of and getting an extended cab to pull spray rig trailer with. But I have given thought to putting a bed sprayer in too and worry that might be too much load for a v-8 to pull two tanks with.

Mainly I am looking to get out of having a nice truck that I am beating the **** out of so want to get a couple cheap work trucks but like the guy above wrote in about diesels you gotta buy and mod or you've got a moneysucker on your hands

4 seasons lawn&land
01-15-2012, 05:26 PM
Id do 50 ish thousand miles. I think diesel is a waste of money without dual rear wheels unless your going for cool factor which is fine. Your buddy is definately full of it. But most diesels do better than the 6.4 on fuel.

Jbh0724
01-15-2012, 06:40 PM
I am leaning more and more towards sticking with gas. I would love the power of diesel but I am afraid of the expensive repairs.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
01-15-2012, 07:30 PM
Yeah I have a Dodge diesel 2011. I pull 10k plus with it at least once a week. Even during the winter I pull heavy equipment helping my brother who builds metal buildings. I have an old 1993 Ford f250 with a 5.8 gas I have to run the mowing route. If I ran 30k per year or under I would probably have bought a v10 Ford instead of the diesel.

I
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Valk
01-16-2012, 12:28 AM
Someone correct me IFF I'm wrong, but making frequent stops favors a gasser while extended towing favors a diesel. Seems there's a lot less to go wrong with a gasser...and this gets my vote - unless you're towing a lot of weight quite often.

Duekster
12-10-2012, 11:15 PM
Someone correct me IFF I'm wrong, but making frequent stops favors a gasser while extended towing favors a diesel. Seems there's a lot less to go wrong with a gasser...and this gets my vote - unless you're towing a lot of weight quite often.

I would think a gasser would be more suited to a mow and go operation but would like to hear other opinions.

BrandonV
12-11-2012, 07:46 AM
7K# trailer load.

yall must have some light weight sod 3 pallets is 7500lbs+ here and that's before you add in your trailer.

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 04:13 AM
We run one gasser for mowing and it averages 6.5 mpg. But pulling with my '01 duramax I average around 22mpg with a 20' enclosed trailer. The repairs are usually a little more expensive but in the long run the extra money is worth it when you're getting 500k+ miles out of a truck. Even just doing estimates the mileage is at least mid 20's. I believe diesel is the way to go
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Duekster
12-13-2012, 06:51 AM
We run one gasser for mowing and it averages 6.5 mpg. But pulling with my '01 duramax I average around 22mpg with a 20' enclosed trailer. The repairs are usually a little more expensive but in the long run the extra money is worth it when you're getting 500k+ miles out of a truck. Even just doing estimates the mileage is at least mid 20's. I believe diesel is the way to go
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I do not think you will get that kind of mileage out of a late model with all the emissions on them. I could be wrong.

On the NPRs I am told to expect about 1 MPG better with the diesel.

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 07:28 AM
Around here most guys take the emissions stuff right away on the dmax's and get them tuned with efi live. Have you considered either the newer cummins or duramax against the powerstroke?
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Duekster
12-13-2012, 07:40 AM
Around here most guys take the emissions stuff right away on the dmax's and get them tuned with efi live. Have you considered either the newer cummins or duramax against the powerstroke?
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I suspect if I stripped the emmisions off a gasser it would get better mileage or more HP or both. Not sure about the program chief.

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 08:04 AM
It might get better if stripped on the gasser. I just feel that in the long run you are saving money with the diesel. I personally wont go back to a gas truck. But if they work the best for you I say go for it.

http://longhornfabshop.com/pages/EFI-Live-Tuning-Services.html

Duekster
12-13-2012, 08:10 AM
It might get better if stripped on the gasser. I just feel that in the long run you are saving money with the diesel. I personally wont go back to a gas truck. But if they work the best for you I say go for it.

http://longhornfabshop.com/pages/EFI-Live-Tuning-Services.html

So basically what you are telling me it to use a off road only vehicle to tow a trailer making 15 to 20 stops a day. I bet the turbo loves that

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 08:18 AM
I am not sure where off road vehicle only came into play here. Benefits of diesel or gassers are all up to what you as the owner are looking for.

Duekster
12-13-2012, 09:02 AM
I am not sure where off road vehicle only came into play here. Benefits of diesel or gassers are all up to what you as the owner are looking for.

If you strip the emissions off the vehicle it is not street legal

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 09:14 AM
Right i agree with you on that. I am not saying to do the dpf delete kit. thats the reason why i will not buy a new diesel truck. stick with pre '09 and do not have to worry about about any emissions stuff. for the heavy hauling diesel is the way to go and for me even frequent stops mowing ill use it also because i can not justify the under 10mpg that we get with the gasser.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-13-2012, 10:18 AM
There is no way you are getting 22mpg pulling a 20' enclosed. You might want to recalculate that.
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CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 10:54 AM
thats hand calculated. i have reworked it a few times. anywhere from 20-22

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-13-2012, 11:07 AM
Wow that's one special truck. My brother has an 07' Ex cab Dmax with 4;10 rears. 15 empty 10 to 12 loaded. 2 good friends with crew cab 2500's 06' and 08' both 4x4's pulling 18' and 20' enclosed, one does gutter work, the other a framer. Best pulling mileage reported by both guys loaded was 12mpg.
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CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 11:15 AM
do they have programmers? i have efi live, banks bighead wastegate, h&s 7" air intake and 4 inch exhaust to 8 inch tip

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
No they don't. I have XRT pro 5" tbe and s&b intake on my 2011 dodge. I get 20 empty and 14 to 12 with 18' open trailer.
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CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-13-2012, 11:24 AM
before i got efi i got only 16 loaded. it made a huge difference. the link in the post above has that shop working on a efi tune for cummins. i couldnt even come close to this mpg in a gas 3/4 ton

jrs.landscaping
12-13-2012, 02:24 PM
I look at gas vs diesel like 4 wheel and 2 wheel drive. Do I take full advantage of it all the time, no. When I need it it's there, like to haul 25,999 GCW I'd rather have the diesel over the gas.

Duekster
12-13-2012, 07:45 PM
8/10 post in this thread pushing a product.

Can we see some of your EQ and rig please.

jrs.landscaping
12-13-2012, 07:53 PM
8/10 post in this thread pushing a product.

Can we see some of your EQ and rig please.

Who is pushing a product?

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-13-2012, 08:11 PM
8/10 post in this thread pushing a product.

Can we see some of your EQ and rig please.

Just look for me on 75 and 121 between McKinney and the Colony. White cc 2500 Dodge and dark grey 18ft open trailer with 2ft solid sides. Sometimes will be in the Purple Ranger pulling black single axle 12'. I'm not much on posting pics. PM me if you like.
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precision8m
12-14-2012, 09:15 AM
If you want good mileage, dont keep buying Ford. Cummins gets the best mileage and duramax is still better then powerstroke in mpg. That being said, I love the Ford trucks based on how they look, and the 7.3 is a reliable beast. Diesel is better than gas when it comes to pulling often, fuel mileage, and engine longevity.

If you pull light and buy new trucks every 2-3 years then get a gasser. I am selling mine and will stick with diesel from now on. I get 13-15 pulling weight in city and have seen 27 mpg empty on a highway run. This is with a calibrated scanguage II which is very accurate. I have several mods on my truck which make a huge difference in mpg.

Monroe74
12-14-2012, 10:08 AM
I owned a 2001 f250 cc lb 4x4 5.4l gas with 3.73 limited slip diff and pulling 7k 6 days a week got 8mpg
Now i own a 2004 f350 srw cc lb 4x4 6.0 with 3.73 limited slip diff pulling 7k 6 days a week and now getting 14 mpg in the hills of sc pa.
Lastly my buddy's truck which i got to borrow is a 2002 f250 cc sb 4x4 with 4.10 limited slip and pulling 7k got 9 mpg.
So it is more than just the engine you need to consider 4.10 will pull easier but uses more fuel because engine rpms are higher
Your 08 has crappy mileage because of the dpf filter because someone decided that cutting soot by 50% by burning 50% more fuel makes sense.

precision8m
12-14-2012, 02:31 PM
What work did you do to your 04 6.0?
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Duekster
12-14-2012, 08:18 PM
Just look for me on 75 and 121 between McKinney and the Colony. White cc 2500 Dodge and dark grey 18ft open trailer with 2ft solid sides. Sometimes will be in the Purple Ranger pulling black single axle 12'. I'm not much on posting pics. PM me if you like.
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I get up that way once in a while. My niece drives a purple ranger.

RSK Property Maintenance
12-15-2012, 02:02 AM
Wow that's one special truck. My brother has an 07' Ex cab Dmax with 4;10 rears. 15 empty 10 to 12 loaded. 2 good friends with crew cab 2500's 06' and 08' both 4x4's pulling 18' and 20' enclosed, one does gutter work, the other a framer. Best pulling mileage reported by both guys loaded was 12mpg.
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duramax diesel's are known for getting great fuel economy while towing, especially with efi live tunes in them, pretty normal stuff here it's actually simple math....my dad's 95 extended cab long bed with with 100 gallon aux fuel tank got 20mpg towing a 20 ft equipment trailer to nj with a monte carlo ss on it, and 22 on the way back empty trailer. doing about 70 the whole way. The more power you have the less you push the throttle to maintain speed, and accelerate, therefore the engine doesn't have to work as hard and you get better fuel economy. I run a 96 7.3 powerstroke with 272,000 of reliable service every single day. not the fastest truck or very good on fuel towing but it works every day during the spring, summer and fall and to me that is what counts, i know a gas truck wouldn't be able to move some of the stuff i tow with my truck. or it would be going very very slow up some of the hills around me. getting 4 mpg probably.

RSK Property Maintenance
12-15-2012, 02:05 AM
The older I get the wiser I get. I bought an 08 F-250 Lariat to work out of (yes, young dumb and full of...) Well I am not wanting to downgrade and get a straight work truck that I don't have to worry about putting dents & scratches in. I got diesel b/c I pull a trailer 7 days a week and told best option. One of my buddies uses all gas trucks in f-250 and says gets 16-18 mpg pulling (I think bs b/c I get 10 in my diesel).

I am really just trying to get others opinions on gas vs diesel when pulling 18 ft trailer loaded down as well as how many miles is too many miles? I'm looking at a couple 2004 f250 w 125,000 miles for around $13000. I don't mind spending more but trying to get the best truck for the lowest amount but I would rather spend more $ and not have a truck breaking down all the time.

delete your dpf and cat, and put a spartan tune in your truck probably the 250hp tune and watch your fuel economy double depending on what gears you have in the axles. my buddy did it with his 2009 f350 ext. cab short bed, he gets 25-27 on the highway hand calculated not towing, but i'm sure towing he still probably gets close to 20.

Monroe74
12-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I use my trucks for residential lawn maintenance.

clydebusa
12-15-2012, 03:52 PM
Haven't read all the replies but being you are in OKC I would get CNG. Bought 1 and look to change all 3 of my trucks to CNG. The saving are out of this world.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-15-2012, 06:13 PM
duramax diesel's are known for getting great fuel economy while towing, especially with efi live tunes in them, pretty normal stuff here it's actually simple math....my dad's 95 extended cab long bed with with 100 gallon aux fuel tank got 20mpg towing a 20 ft equipment trailer to nj with a monte carlo ss on it, and 22 on the way back empty trailer. doing about 70 the whole way. The more power you have the less you push the throttle to maintain speed, and accelerate, therefore the engine doesn't have to work as hard and you get better fuel economy. I run a 96 7.3 powerstroke with 272,000 of reliable service every single day. not the fastest truck or very good on fuel towing but it works every day during the spring, summer and fall and to me that is what counts, i know a gas truck wouldn't be able to move some of the stuff i tow with my truck. or it would be going very very slow up some of the hills around me. getting 4 mpg probably.

That isn't the case with the Dodge. It gets better mpg on mild +60 hp towing than on hot +175hp. Empty it does better on hot.
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Duekster
12-15-2012, 07:56 PM
Haven't read all the replies but being you are in OKC I would get CNG. Bought 1 and look to change all 3 of my trucks to CNG. The saving are out of this world.

I am seeing CNG as an option these days on new trucks too. How do you refill?

clydebusa
12-15-2012, 08:01 PM
I am seeing CNG as an option these days on new trucks too. How do you refill?

There is a station 1.5 miles and 3 miles away from my home. The f450 I bought is dedicated with 30 gallon capacity. So a range of 350 to 400 miles. Soon as I get 3 to 4 vehicles I will do the home fuel station.

RSK Property Maintenance
12-16-2012, 01:18 AM
That isn't the case with the Dodge. It gets better mpg on mild +60 hp towing than on hot +175hp. Empty it does better on hot.
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tranny probably slips on the hot+175hp when towing heavy, and empty it doesn't slip. and on the mild 60hp setting it doesn't slip and it adds a nice boost in power so it really it optimized on the towing setting. unless its a 2010-13 dodge or you did an after market valvebody in the transmission and bumped up the line pressure so it doesn't slip.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
12-16-2012, 08:19 AM
tranny probably slips on the hot+175hp when towing heavy, and empty it doesn't slip. and on the mild 60hp setting it doesn't slip and it adds a nice boost in power so it really it optimized on the towing setting. unless its a 2010-13 dodge or you did an after market valvebody in the transmission and bumped up the line pressure so it doesn't slip.

It's a 2011 6spd manual trans.
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Fawcett
12-16-2012, 10:55 AM
I'm in the same boat as the OP.
Currently I run a 2012 F350 XL Reg Cab 6.2 gas 4x4 w/ 3.73's and e-diff

Towing my 6x10 enclosed trailer with Walker, push mower, blowers etc I get 11-12mpg's. Lots of stopping and starting. No highway driving.

Empty and w/o trailer I get around 15mpg's

Average range on a full tank: 365miles Towing, Around 400 Empty

Winter fuel is here and I have seen MPG's drop by a MPG or two.

I'm somewhat ocd and I do the math every fill up.
Also average around 14-17hrs per fill up.

I love the power, this truck is strong. I fill up once a week.

Now I'm looking for a 'cheap' diesel dump for my crew to drive.

I don't want to pay the guys to stop at a gas station every other day.

Finding the right truck is hard, I looked at used trucks for 2 years. All I saw was crap and didn't want to waste my money. I've got a 5yr warranty to help me sleep at night.

Fawcett
12-16-2012, 11:01 AM
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/Freddie_Fawcett/IMG_0561_zps72858aa7.jpg

Here is my set up with two yards of mulch in the bed

hosejockey2002
12-16-2012, 06:20 PM
The more power you have the less you push the throttle to maintain speed, and accelerate, therefore the engine doesn't have to work as hard and you get better fuel economy.

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. It takes FUEL to make power, period. It's possible to make an engine more efficient by improving intake and exhaust as well as adjusting injection timing. But to get more hp, especially the really hot tunes it takes more fuel. Everyone I've talked to that has chipped a truck for more power really likes it but they admit that mpg is the first thing to go once the power is turned up.

johnnybravo8802
12-16-2012, 10:53 PM
I'll tell you what, I'll never buy a gas engine Isuzu again. I made the mistake of buying an Isuzu with a gas engine(Chevy 350) off of this site back in 2010. I have never in my life seen a gas engine use that much fuel before. I truly believe that's why he sold it to the next sucker(me:rolleyes:) who came along. The funny thing is that, when I asked him about gas mileage, he said it wasn't that bad.:rolleyes:I'll put it to you this way, I was putting $50(only filled it to half a tank) in it every 2 days!!!!!:dizzy::dizzy:I live exactly 9 mins from the town I mowed in-I had a very tight route-jobs within 1/2 mile from each other.....that's as far as that truck was driven on a regular basis. I finally had to sell the truck because I was going broke trying to run it-it was a really nice truck too-It killed me to have to sell it seeing that it was the perfect truck for me. It also used a quart of oil every 2 wks, which was not mentioned, and I had to drop about $1200 into the engine and exhaust system 3 months after I bought it-not cool. I think that may have explained why he had pretty much parked it for a year before I purchased it. I bought a new Isuzu box truck in 01' with a diesel and highly prefer the diesel in the Isuzu.

precision8m
12-16-2012, 11:04 PM
That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. It takes FUEL to make power, period. It's possible to make an engine more efficient by improving intake and exhaust as well as adjusting injection timing. But to get more hp, especially the really hot tunes it takes more fuel. Everyone I've talked to that has chipped a truck for more power really likes it but they admit that mpg is the first thing to go once the power is turned up.

Gotta say that it's true. First hand experience too. 180 mile trip there with chip off at 18 mpg. 180 miles back with the chip all the way on, 24 mpg. That was the only difference.

Sure, you lose mileage if you can't keep from slamming the pedal.

CuttingEdgeLandscapes
12-17-2012, 03:47 AM
That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. It takes FUEL to make power, period. It's possible to make an engine more efficient by improving intake and exhaust as well as adjusting injection timing. But to get more hp, especially the really hot tunes it takes more fuel. Everyone I've talked to that has chipped a truck for more power really likes it but they admit that mpg is the first thing to go once the power is turned up.

Even with a chipped truck you are still going to get way better fuel mileage out of it than you will with a gas truck. The towing tunes are designed to increase your power through the powerband in all gears and some are setup with a turbo brake to help with slowing you down. They keep the rpm's late addy which is saving you fuel in the long run.
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Matt attack
12-17-2012, 07:32 PM
I started out with a v8 dakota pulling a 14 foot open trailer with two mowers. I was getting 8mpg. I sold that and got an 03 3500 cummins 6 speed and towing I get 14 to 16. Its chipped and has 5 inch strait pipe and intake. The chip deffinately helps mpg!! I get at the least 1 to 2 mpg better with the chip up the hole way!! Empty i get lower 20s. The one thing with cummins is they run alot cooler then the other diesels when pulling from my exsperience and I know a good many people with both dmax and strokes. They all make good trucks but I would deff reccomend a diesel.

burnthefurniture
12-17-2012, 08:58 PM
As others have mentioned, it really depends on the loads you're pulling, terrain, and mileage. All of my work trucks are gas powered chevys, but we are a relatively low mileage outfit (for example my 99 3500s have 80 and 81k miles). Gas mileage isn't great, but I tow 10,000# several times a week with that equipment. I typically average around 9 mpg towing, and 10-11 unloaded. Diesel would be better for gas mileage, but I would NEVER see that return on my investment, as every other component of the vehicle (frame, electronics, body, interior, front end parts, brakes) etc., wear out long before the motor ever would. I also like to rotate new vehicles into the fleet. My gassers are also very easy and cheap to maintain. Food for thought.