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Waterlogged
01-14-2012, 04:59 PM
Just had a conversation at the counter with another Irrigator about this. Talked to our local rep. They said they thought it would come out in March. Don't know if they've done beta yet.

http://www.toro.com/en-us/Professional-Contractor/Irrigation/Sensors/Pages/Model.aspx?pid=Precision-Soil-Sensor

One concern I would have is the fact that it sits exposed, on the turf. Not real sure how that would work.

Your thoughts?

Stuttering Stan
01-14-2012, 05:42 PM
The first issue that I see is it's exposed on the turf. Lawnmower will turn it into pieces because it blends into the grass and the lawn jockey is too lazy to remove/ replace everytime. Plus the plastic looks thin/ cheap.

But I'm willing to try anything one time.........well, not ANYthing.

Wet_Boots
01-14-2012, 06:36 PM
I think it's interesting. Hopefully they don't use cheap plastic, if they expect it to endure.

S.O.Contracting
01-14-2012, 07:52 PM
Our local Toro rep brought it up at a local trade show. My big concern is finding it after a season when the grasses have swallowed it up and you have to change out the batteries. They based it off the design of their wireless soil moisture sensors used in their golf course line.

Wet_Boots
01-14-2012, 07:56 PM
Easiest way to keep it "findable" on a residential property is to place it on a sight-line of the house exterior.

Mike Leary
01-14-2012, 08:30 PM
Maybe golf or large turf where it could be removed for mowing. Otherwise, forget it. :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
01-14-2012, 08:53 PM
If they use polycarbonate plastic for the body, it should stand up to field conditions, at least on lawns without vehicle traffic.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-14-2012, 09:02 PM
One soil sensor for the whole landscape? Some say that is heresy but couldn't be any worse than a mini-clik.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Leary
01-14-2012, 09:37 PM
One soil sensor for the whole landscape? Some say that is heresy but couldn't be any worse than a mini-clik.

Someone is welcome to inform me I'm wrong, but that sensor looks to me like a regular common-shorting device, only it's wireless. If it were zone-applicable, I'd be looking at it, but if it's global, it's junk.

Wet_Boots
01-14-2012, 09:44 PM
There isn't any manual for it online, so who knows. One rep mentioned that there was some high-frequency involved in the 'reading' of the moisture of a similar-looking device.

txirrigation
01-14-2012, 10:41 PM
One soil sensor for the whole landscape? Some say that is heresy but couldn't be any worse than a mini-clik.
Posted via Mobile Device

Agree, this sensor has no idea what is happening 10' away, much less 150' away. I would think that you would need this for every zone.

Wet_Boots
01-14-2012, 10:53 PM
One sensor in the most exposed area could still work, but some program tweaking would be needed.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-14-2012, 11:57 PM
Thank you Boots. Why folks think a single wafer rain shut off would be better than a single well placed moisture sensor is a mystery to me.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 12:01 AM
a Mini-Clik is fairly reliable as a resource/money saver, but of course we want better. My main concern, beyond soil-moisture-sensor reliability, is how it works with odd-even programming, or even more infrequent waterings.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-15-2012, 12:16 AM
I guess it would depend on whether the moisture sensor tended to overwatering or under watering. From my experience most wafer sensor set ups dry out before an irrigation cycle is necessary.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
01-15-2012, 09:57 AM
One sensor in the most exposed area could still work, but some program tweaking would be needed.

Only if you are talking about a single hydrozone with an irrigation system that has above average DU.

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Only if you are talking about a single hydrozone with an irrigation system that has above average DU.One can probably work the settings and get a good result from a single sensor, even without having only one hydrozone.

Kiril
01-15-2012, 03:13 PM
One can probably work the settings and get a good result from a single sensor, even without having only one hydrozone.

One can fairly easily overcome the run time problem given enough time and data ($$) in similar hydrozones. What cannot be overcome is the interval problem, or root zone problem, or any of the other problems I have mentioned many times over.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-15-2012, 03:32 PM
A wafer sensor isn't going to manage the different watering needs of a multi hydro zone system any better and probably worse than a single moisture sensor. A WM SL is tinkered around a wafer rain sensor so tinkering a controller around a single SMS will likely be as effective if not more so.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 03:32 PM
The desired result is a green lawn with less watering, and a soil moisture sensor can help, even one sensor.

Kiril
01-15-2012, 03:40 PM
One sensor .... one hydrozone ..... simple as that.

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 03:51 PM
hydrozones don't enter into it, if you make a single sensor control all - it is possible to get a good result from less than perfection in sprinkling and sensing - it requires intelligence

Kiril
01-15-2012, 04:01 PM
Deleted ..... refuse to partake in amateur hour.

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 04:04 PM
Is it "amateur" to use 7.5 as a multiplier instead of 7.48? The idea here is managing, not chasing perfection.

1idejim
01-15-2012, 04:07 PM
is it "amateur" to use 7.5 as a multiplier instead of 7.48? The idea here is managing, not chasing perfection.

7.485157:)

Wet_Boots
01-15-2012, 04:10 PM
I stand corrected, you troll. :p

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-15-2012, 05:21 PM
Achieving none of the water savings versus 80% because of some principle that every hydro zone has to have a SMS is just sad. Especially since its highly unlikely an et based weather monitor using a wafer rain sensor is unlikely to be any more accurate. You could argue that every hydro zone needs its own wafer sensor and separate rain delay.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
01-15-2012, 09:23 PM
I see amateur hour has stretched into amateur afternoon ... any takers for amateur day?

mitchgo
01-15-2012, 10:36 PM
:) I'll continue

(these stats of course aren't real)

It's much easier to persuade someone to achieve say 75% efficiency with the cost of 10% then to achieve the remaining 25% efficiency with the cost of an additional 90% .

Kiril
01-16-2012, 12:12 AM
:) I'll continue

(these stats of course aren't real)

It's much easier to persuade someone to achieve say 75% efficiency with the cost of 10% then to achieve the remaining 25% efficiency with the cost of an additional 90% .

The only relevant section in bold, but thanks for contributing.

Wouldn't it be nice though if all landscapes consisted of nothing more than a single hydrozone of turf .... heh?

Mike Leary
01-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Wouldn't it be nice though if all landscapes consisted of nothing more than a single hydrozone of turf .... heh?

And nice, neat, squares and rectangles. :rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
01-16-2012, 12:32 PM
....and no trees....

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-16-2012, 04:57 PM
:) I'll continue

(these stats of course aren't real)

It's much easier to persuade someone to achieve say 75% efficiency with the cost of 10% then to achieve the remaining 25% efficiency with the cost of an additional 90% .

Well stated.
When a wafer rain sensor dries out it isn't drying out at the exact rate of each different hydrozone. Its just drying out. One uses the controller to attempt to adjust all the zones based on the drying out capabilities among other factors of the wafer sensor. If the controller has ET capabilities that is factored in as well. So on a single sms the same strategy is entailed. Adjust the other zones based on the drying out of the hydrozone with the sms.

mitchgo
01-16-2012, 05:26 PM
Last year our water districts changed the way rebates work for rain sensors and other types of upgrades. Basically the program reimburses us instead of the customer.

This helped us immensely - The customer got a free rain sensor with only paying tax. This year alone I know the program reimbursed us at least 80k in sold rain sensors/ labor time.

Funny thing is stats show up here in washington- if a controller was left on all the time for our normal irrigating months. That a rain sensor only saves about 7% of water used.

Kiril
01-16-2012, 07:45 PM
Well stated.
When a wafer rain sensor dries out it isn't drying out at the exact rate of each different hydrozone. Its just drying out. One uses the controller to attempt to adjust all the zones based on the drying out capabilities among other factors of the wafer sensor. If the controller has ET capabilities that is factored in as well. So on a single sms the same strategy is entailed. Adjust the other zones based on the drying out of the hydrozone with the sms.

Again with the amateur hour. When will it stop?

Wet_Boots
01-16-2012, 08:25 PM
You can sell perfection all you want. There is still a market for water savings, however imperfectly it's achieved.

Kiril
01-16-2012, 10:46 PM
I don't expect you to understand boots, but then it doesn't surprise me that some people here seem to feel entire landscapes should be irrigated on the same schedule as turf. :hammerhead:

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
01-16-2012, 11:10 PM
I don't expect you to understand boots, but then it doesn't surprise me that some people here seem to feel entire landscapes should be irrigated on the same schedule as turf. :hammerhead:

Oh I love finding those jobs..... bid a lot of commercial landscape maintenance work where I open the controller and find 20 minutes on every station every night. That's how I know that I have a good shot at the contract.... that kind of program means that an idiot is currently "maintaining" the place!

Kiril
01-16-2012, 11:24 PM
Oh I love finding those jobs..... bid a lot of commercial landscape maintenance work where I open the controller and find 20 minutes on every station every night. That's how I know that I have a good shot at the contract.... that kind of program means that an idiot is currently "maintaining" the place!

Ahhhhhhh, the lawn boy special, good for business. :dizzy:

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-16-2012, 11:35 PM
Oh I love finding those jobs..... bid a lot of commercial landscape maintenance work where I open the controller and find 20 minutes on every station every night. That's how I know that I have a good shot at the contract.... that kind of program means that an idiot is currently "maintaining" the place!

Nobody in this thread has suggested that the whole landscape be watered the same. We have one person who insists a wafer rain sensor for the whole landscape to determine watering needs is okay but a single SMS to do the same isn't.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
01-16-2012, 11:44 PM
Nobody in this thread has suggested that the whole landscape be watered the same.

That is exactly what you and boots are suggesting, but again, I don't expect you to understand.

We have one person who insists a wafer rain sensor for the whole landscape to determine watering needs is okay but a single SMS to do the same isn't.

Who would that be? I didn't say anything about a rain sensor. Beyond that, a SMS is not a rain sensor. Is there a good reason you are trying to make it into one?

Wet_Boots
01-17-2012, 07:34 AM
A multi-schedule controller can still be connected to single sensors. Not perfect, but still capable of money/water savings.

Bang for the buck. In current dollars, maybe $300 in T&M can add a soil moisture sensor that will save $2000 in a decade, on a one-third-acre property. That's a win.

Kiril
01-17-2012, 10:16 AM
One sensor .... one hydrozone .... simple as that.

Wet_Boots
01-17-2012, 01:22 PM
Saving money - simple as that

Still some overwatering, but water savings nonetheless

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-17-2012, 04:35 PM
Find the driest zone to set the soil moisture sensor in. When that zone is ready to start watering again check the other zones to see where they are in relationship to the driest zone. Adjust the multi-schedule program controller accordingly. Add a wafer sensor to prevent watering during and shortly after a rainfall but set it at 1/4".

txirrigation
01-17-2012, 04:42 PM
One sensor .... one hydrozone .... simple as that.

I have to agree.

Wet_Boots
01-17-2012, 04:51 PM
Out of the desert climates, there isn't any screaming need for separate scheduling of watering for trees and most shrubs. It's lawns. Or lawns and flowers, which is close to the same thing.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-17-2012, 05:29 PM
We aren't talking a golf course but a 150' by 75' residential lot. Will the moisture sensor achieve more water savings than just a wafer r/f sensor alone? As fast as those wafer sensors dry out I'd say yes. Gives the system a more accurate rain delay. Not perfect just more accurate. Spend 300 and get a little more accurate or 1800 for perfection?

Kiril
01-19-2012, 12:48 AM
I expect nothing will come from this other than the usual petty BS, but what the hell.

Here is an overly simplistic scenario for people who believe a single SMS is suitable to control irrigation. This is not to be construed as being an completely accurate method, but it is close enough for the purpose of this demonstration. Please show how to achieve the 70-80% water savings using a single SMS as people here have claimed.

----------------------

A simple landscape consisting of 4 hydrozones sitting on a fairly homogeneous clay loam to a depth of 48 inches (highly unlikely) which has a plant available water holding capacity of 0.16 in/in.

Historical effective rain inputs in this demo region are 0.3 in/month (0.01 in/day for a 30 day month). Although technically incorrect, you can assume effective rain inputs are the same for all hydrozones.

Historical peak summer ETo = 0.18 in/day.

You may assume (also technically incorrect) that there are no losses to account for other than losses associated with DU.

The landscaped area is split up as follows

Hydrozone 1 (HZ1 @ 40% of area):

Plant Type = TTTF
Ave Rootzone = 16 in
KL = 0.80
MAD = 50%
DULQ = 70%
Net PR = 0.48 in/hr


Hydrozone 2 (HZ2 @ 10% of area):

Plant Type = Annuals
Ave Rootzone = 6 in
KL: 1.0
MAD = 25%
DULQ: 60%
Net PR = 1.54 in/hr


Hydrozone 3 (HZ3 @ 30% of area):

Plant Type = Hardy Perennials & shrubs
Ave Rootzone = 32 in
KL: 0.55
MAD = 65%
DULQ: 45%
Net PR = 1.50 in/hr


Hydrozone 4 (HZ4 @ 20% of area):

Plant Type = Natives
Ave Rootzone = 48 in
KL: 0.35
MAD = 75%
DULQ: 50%
Net PR = 1.36 in/hr



Using the supplied data above and industry standard methods, calculate the following for each hydrozone at peak ETo.

PWR = Plant Water Requirement (daily) after accounting for rain inputs. You may assume you are starting with a soil at field capacity.


HZ1:

PWR (in/day) =
Runtime Multiplier =
Base Daily Irrigation Requirement (in/day) =
Irrigation Interval (days) =
Irrigation Requirement per Interval (in) =
Total Runtime (mins) =


HZ2:

PWR (in/day) =
Runtime Multiplier =
Base Daily Irrigation Requirement (in/day) =
Irrigation Interval (days) =
Irrigation Requirement per Interval (in) =
Total Runtime (mins) =


HZ3:

PWR (in/day) =
Runtime Multiplier =
Base Daily Irrigation Requirement (in/day) =
Irrigation Interval (days) =
Irrigation Requirement per Interval (in) =
Total Runtime (mins) =


HZ4:

PWR (in/day) =
Runtime Multiplier =
Base Daily Irrigation Requirement (in/day) =
Irrigation Interval (days) =
Irrigation Requirement per Interval (in) =
Total Runtime (mins) =



Once you have completed the above, demonstrate how to use a single SMS to irrigate this property per above calculations. You can use the RB SMRT-Y (http://www.rainbird.com/documents/turf/man_SMRT-Y_EN.pdf). You are not allowed to bypass the sensor given arguments made here state there is no need to bypass it, and you are required to irrigate to the full depth of the root zone.

In order to do this you will at a minimum need to include the following.



Indicate the hydrozone and depth the sensor will be placed in
Indicate what soil moisture the system will be triggered at
Generate a schedule that adheres to the calculations you just completed
Discuss potential impacts of your schedule on soil and plant health
Discuss potential impacts on management (fertilizers, pesticides)
Discuss potential impacts on maintenance (pruning, etc...)

1idejim
01-19-2012, 01:25 AM
i admire your knowledge kiril, you take irrigation in your area to a higher level, for that you should be proud.

convincing the masses however is more than a full time job:)

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 10:17 AM
If perfection costs $2000 and saves me $2500, how is that superior to imperfection that costs $400 and saves $2000 ?? :confused:

DanaMac
01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
If perfection costs $2000 and saves me $2500, how is that superior to imperfection that costs $400 and saves $2000 ?? :confused:

I agree with Boots. Is the overall cost to achieve 100% perfection, financially worth it? Also consider, when will the system start losing efficiency anyway? Will it be at 80% within a year or two due to grass height, heads leaning, products being replaced with inferior ones from hack maintenance company or homeowner, changes in landscaping, overgrown shrubs, etc etc. The system will always need continued changes to constantly achieve that 100% efficiency. Then what happens when the house is sold and the next owner has no clue or funds to properly maintain the system, or want to understand the need for the moisture sensors, rain sensors, high end controllers.

Once again, I can buy a mid range Toyota which will fulfill 90% of my wants and needs, be fairly efficient, light on my wallet, and I will be happy with it. Or I can buy the top of the line BMW/Mercedes/Audi which MAY meet 98%-100% of my needs and wants, possibly be a little bit more efficient, but higher cost when maintenance comes up, costlier components. Yet, both vehicles still get me to the same place. The Toyota may even save me more in gas. It's a give and take situation.

Kiril
01-19-2012, 11:49 AM
As I expected. :clapping:

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 12:01 PM
So you do not favor cost/benefit analysis?

Kiril
01-19-2012, 12:32 PM
So you do not favor cost/benefit analysis?

The example problem has nothing to do with cost to benefit or single SMS vs multiple SMS or SMS vs rain sensor. Your task is to demonstrate how to irrigate the example landscape using a single SMS according to calculated requirements.

If you want to include a cost to benefit analysis of water use, assume 10000 square feet of landscaped area with a water cost of $2.00/1000 gals. You can also assume a conservative 10% in additional losses to irrigation efficiency per irrigation event due to factors not considered in the example landscape. I will assume you know how to adjust the data given that information in order to get a estimated total water usage per hydrozone.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 12:40 PM
You can start the ball rolling by specifying the sensors employed and the controller they connect to, and the installed cost of same.

Kiril
01-19-2012, 01:13 PM
Apparently you are incapable of working the problem, and therefore not qualified to comment on this subject.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 01:30 PM
I could care less about the thinking of people who stick magnets on their water pipes. Real World beats Ivory Tower, every time.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 01:37 PM
I remember a time before r/f sensors. As a matter of fact probably the first ten years of my career. Then r/f sensors came along and they at least kept the system from watering during and right after a heavy rain. Unfortunately a wafer sensor can't tell the difference between a 2" rain or a 1/4" rain. Dries out at the same rate for both rainfall amounts. Installing a SMS in the driest zone serves one purpose and one purpose only. As a more accurate rain delay. It will add to water conservation if utilized properly. At a cost of maybe 3-400. I could sell 30 of those before I could sell one SMS meeting kiril's specs. If it can't be done perfect then it shouldn't be done at all is a lousy way to conserve water.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
01-19-2012, 01:37 PM
i could care less about the thinking of people who stick magnets on their water pipes. Real world beats ivory tower, every time.

------------------------------------

i expect nothing will come from this other than the usual petty bs


i remember a time before r/f sensors. As a matter of fact probably the first ten years of my career. Then r/f sensors came along and they at least kept the system from watering during and right after a heavy rain. Unfortunately a wafer sensor can't tell the difference between a 2" rain or a 1/4" rain. Dries out at the same rate for both rainfall amounts. Installing a sms in the driest zone serves one purpose and one purpose only. As a more accurate rain delay. It will add to water conservation if utilized properly. At a cost of maybe 3-400. I could sell 30 of those before i could sell one sms meeting kiril's specs. If it can't be done perfect then it shouldn't be done at all is a lousy way to conserve water.
posted via mobile device

--------------------------------------

apparently you are incapable of working the problem, and therefore not qualified to comment on this subject.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 02:24 PM
I've got better things to do than work on a hypothetical. Has nothing to do with the real root of the matter. What can be sold to the general public to help with water conservation.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Leary
01-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Real World beats Ivory Tower, every time.

Hmm, we "Tower Types" seem to retire earlier, with more money.:clapping::drinkup:

irrig8r
01-19-2012, 03:05 PM
How does it differ from this one?

http://www.toro.com/en-us/Professional-Contractor/Irrigation/Sensors/Pages/Model.aspx?pid=Turf-Guard-Sensors

mitchgo
01-19-2012, 03:10 PM
The turf guard seems like a commericial grade product used for specific toro controller brands.

While the toro precision can be used on almost any controller out there.

Cost would be a big difference

S.O.Contracting
01-19-2012, 03:34 PM
How does it differ from this one?

http://www.toro.com/en-us/Professional-Contractor/Irrigation/Sensors/Pages/Model.aspx?pid=Turf-Guard-Sensors

I believe the Turf Guard is the sensor that the precision sensor was based off of. Like mitch said it works with toro's own golf course and large commercial line of controllers. Looks like it sends more info to controller also including soil temp and salinity.

Kiril
01-19-2012, 04:42 PM
How does it differ from this one?

http://www.toro.com/en-us/Professional-Contractor/Irrigation/Sensors/Pages/Model.aspx?pid=Turf-Guard-Sensors

.......... Significantly.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 08:33 PM
Hmm, we "Tower Types" seem to retire earlier, with more money.:clapping::drinkup:How does the ivory tower approach work for a 1/10 acre property that won't need even 3 thousand dollars worth of sprinkler system?

Mike Leary
01-19-2012, 08:39 PM
How does the ivory tower approach work for a 1/10 acre property that won't need even 3 thousand dollars worth of sprinkler system?

For three grand, I'd never even set the cone markers. :nono:

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 08:59 PM
elitist :hammerhead:

Kiril
01-19-2012, 09:03 PM
Hard to understand why not a single "professional" on this forum can fill in the blanks on the example landscape I posted. Simply boggles the mind! Damned sad.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 09:10 PM
Why don't you complete your own work, Poindexter? And while you're at it, supply the installed cost of a controller and sensor array to control the watering :mad:

Kiril
01-19-2012, 09:23 PM
I already have all the numbers + some. Once again, the calculations have nothing to do with sensors. They have everything to do with industry standard methods of calculating a landscapes irrigation requirements. However, I am not surprised I got nowhere with this simple exercise. Same amateur dance, different thread ..... rinse and repeat.

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 09:33 PM
If you cannot answer the question "What does it cost?" then you don't get any work.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 09:34 PM
:) I'll continue

(these stats of course aren't real)

It's much easier to persuade someone to achieve say 75% efficiency with the cost of 10% then to achieve the remaining 25% efficiency with the cost of an additional 90% .

How difficult is this to understand? I spent my career looking for ways to give my customers bang for their buck. Maybe it was efficiency on my part. Maybe it was eliminating low head drainage. Maybe it was converting valves to flow controls. Maybe it was prs heads. The best bang for a customers buck with moisture sensors in an existing system in my opinion is to put them in the driest zone and use it as a more accurate ran delay on a system with a wafer r/f sensor. Others may opine differently. If you can sell it on a wide scale power to you. I'd rather succeed with most of my customers than try to hit a home run every now and then.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 09:37 PM
what moisture detectors were you using?

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 09:43 PM
what moisture detectors were you using?
I was experimenting with the baseline but didn't get far enough along to suggest one. This grew out of my disenchantment with wm SL and was the direction I was heading when I sold my biz. To me the next easiest element to attack in water conservation was the rain delay element.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 09:51 PM
Some of the early detector setups I remember were utilizing something like cycle and soak scheduling.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 10:06 PM
I have noticed Rainbird seems to have made their sensor quietly disappear. Couldn't find it last time I looked. Until a reliable accurate sensor at a reasonable price gets on the market it's all grist for the mill here anyway.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wet_Boots
01-19-2012, 10:12 PM
before Nelson sold out, they had something in a wired sensor

Mike Leary
01-19-2012, 10:14 PM
If you cannot answer the question "What does it cost?" then you don't get any work.

Yup. As I learned, also, the high-rollers are even more inquisitive as they think they're always being ripped-off by us blue-collar types. :dizzy:

Kiril
01-19-2012, 10:24 PM
If you cannot answer the question "What does it cost?" then you don't get any work.

And again, the calculations have nothing to do with sensors. Can you generate a relatively accurate base schedule for a landscape or not?

Kiril
01-19-2012, 10:28 PM
How difficult is this to understand? I spent my career looking for ways to give my customers bang for their buck. Maybe it was efficiency on my part. Maybe it was eliminating low head drainage. Maybe it was converting valves to flow controls. Maybe it was prs heads. The best bang for a customers buck with moisture sensors in an existing system in my opinion is to put them in the driest zone and use it as a more accurate ran delay on a system with a wafer r/f sensor. Others may opine differently. If you can sell it on a wide scale power to you. I'd rather succeed with most of my customers than try to hit a home run every now and then.

Pete,

I have given you an opportunity to demonstrate exactly how this is done. It is possible for you or boots to step up and act like professionals, or are the two of you going to continue with the amateur games?

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-19-2012, 10:33 PM
Pete,

I have given you an opportunity to demonstrate exactly how this is done. It is possible for you or boots to step up and act like professionals, or are the two of you going to continue with the amateur games?

The first rule when you are losing an argument is to try and change it. Boots and I don't fall for that bs.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kiril
01-19-2012, 10:39 PM
Well that pretty much says it all. :clapping:

I guess we are done with amateur hour now?

Wet_Boots
01-20-2012, 12:11 PM
your ivory tower is calling you, Poindexter

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the one problem I see connected with soil moisture control of watering, is that watering days may be fixed on an odd-even-numbered-days schedule as an absolute override.

Kiril
01-20-2012, 12:20 PM
There is no end to amateur hour.

Wet_Boots
01-20-2012, 01:05 PM
the folks who wrote the regulations that call for odd-even watering couldn't care less about your opinion of the matter

Kiril
01-20-2012, 10:51 PM
----------------------------------

1idejim
01-20-2012, 11:04 PM
----------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI3fN5wvMtM

irritation
01-20-2012, 11:13 PM
Who gives a http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.9523755.3171/sticker,375x360.png?

Kiril
01-20-2012, 11:22 PM
Who gives a

Anyone who claims to be a professional irrigator should.

@jim ........ :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

irritation
01-20-2012, 11:31 PM
If I had it my way irrigation would be banned except for certain ag purposes.

Kiril
01-20-2012, 11:39 PM
If I had it my way irrigation would be banned except for certain ag purposes.

Live long enough and you might just well see that day.

irritation
01-20-2012, 11:54 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG8mvqtWEAw

Waterlogged
01-21-2012, 06:43 PM
Went to a local trade show, got a chance to look at the Toro rain sensor.
The plastic looks extremely sturdy. Don't think that will be an issue. But, I think theft would be.

However, it is one sensor, one receiver.
I think it probably won't take too long before they will be able to give it an address at the controller and that way they can zone it out, to give one per hydrozone.
That would be similar to the remote controls where you just plug in a couple of wires in the remote and it is able to distinguish between zones.
I'm in the camp of one sensor, per hydrozone.

I agree, that education of the customer is the most important. No matter what you put out there, if the customer overrides it, it won't mean a hill of beans.

Wet_Boots
01-21-2012, 07:03 PM
Could the thing be buried an inch or so?

Waterlogged
01-21-2012, 07:13 PM
:hammerhead:I did not ask that particular question but with the short range I would suspect that would add to the line of site problem, and it's so new I can't get a price

Wet_Boots
01-21-2012, 07:15 PM
So. I'll tell the client that it's "priceless" :)