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tony b
01-22-2012, 12:43 PM
I recently received a ticket in the mail. Employee was in a downtown area. I think we all know you approach a changing light and are faced with the stop or go dilema especially with a trailer full of equipment. It had the amount of time the light had been red while the trailer was still in the intersection and speed of the vehicle etc. It seemed within reason to me that if he had stopped the truck he would have been blocking the whole intersection. Anyway for my dilema, it's winter and paychecks are lower and this is an excellent employee, responsible crew leader etc so I guess I'm going to pay his ticket. My real complaint is that if "big brother" were really concerned about your wellbeing instead of F'n us out of a buck they would put a system in place where green lights flash for 3 seconds before they turn yellow. Many countries around the world do this and it works great and is way more cost effective. Oh well things could be worse, he could have been one car back and the guy in front of him lock the brakes to avoid a ticket and cause a wreck. Give me warm weather soon please.

Exact Rototilling
01-22-2012, 02:06 PM
Iíve never been issued a photo ticket but I think itís messed up in principal. :dizzy:

I saw in Oregon State law enforcement publication years ago [family member] .....the following.

Owner of car gets a photo of his car and speed tagged at such and such speed along with a fine for $120.

Owner of car mails in a photo of $120 cash. State replies with a picture of handcuffs.

So the boot clicking publication implied that the guy was a nut job.

Dr.NewEarth
01-22-2012, 03:13 PM
Sorry but Good employee or not, when he approaches an intersection he's obligated to slow down and proceed with caution and follow the rules of the road.

Yellow light speed up is not a rule of the road.

Also if an employee gets a traffic violation, it's up to them to pay for it.

I think it teaches that irresponsibility is O.K. if the company pays the fine.

We have traffic light cameras all over the place where I am. I pull truck loads and trailers and haven't had a violation in over 25 years. I also recommend that you have an employee handbook that states the employee will pay for traffic violations. This should be signed and a copy put in their file.

tony b
01-22-2012, 04:15 PM
Sorry but Good employee or not, when he approaches an intersection he's obligated to slow down and proceed with caution and follow the rules of the road.

Yellow light speed up is not a rule of the road.

Also if an employee gets a traffic violation, it's up to them to pay for it.

I think it teaches that irresponsibility is O.K. if the company pays the fine.

We have traffic light cameras all over the place where I am. I pull truck loads and trailers and haven't had a violation in over 25 years. I also recommend that you have an employee handbook that states the employee will pay for traffic violations. This should be signed and a copy put in their file.

Wow, another know it all. I have the documentation for the fine and you don't. If you are 50' from the intersection with a crew cab and 20' trailer at 30mph I promise you the light will be red when the trailer clears and no way to stop to keep from running it. If yellow light speed up were the case I wouldn't't be paying. If you don't wan't to join in on the bitchfest I'm having about "big brother" trying to take another bite out of the little guys azz that's fine but don't go on about a model employee anyone on this site would die for being irresponsible. Your definitely not in the know on this one.

grass-scapes
01-22-2012, 06:34 PM
IF the light turns red while the vehicle is already in the intersection, then there would have been no ticket. The vehicle would have had to ENTER the intersection while the light is red to get a ticket. The ticket you received would also have current speed of the vehicle. IF the vehicle was doing the speed limit, that indicates no attempt to slow the vehicle.

Notice that IF is all caps. I am not accusing anyone of anything. You have defenses when going to court over a ticket given by a "robot" You have the right to face your accuser.

Now, that being said, it is the employee's responsibility to take care of the ticket, not yours. He was driving, and as such he is fully responsible. If you want to take care of it for him, well, that's your right. I just feel it opens the door for more "irresponsible" behavior in the future.

Thats just my opinion on the subject.

Dr.NewEarth
01-22-2012, 08:41 PM
If you pay the fine, your employees will never become responsible. Situations like this can have an effect on your company culture.

Look into setting up an employee manual and employee contract.

You can Keep with your B. Fest. This is the place for it. I knew my response would make you defensive.

What I write on this site is also intended to give educated and experienced direction to others who may be in a similar situation and need to protect their companies interests.

If you don't want people to say the obvious, then don't tell us about it dude. Peace Out.

tony b
01-23-2012, 08:55 PM
What may or may not be obvious is this is a scam. The pics I have show the truck half under the light when it was red. Innocent or guilty you have to pay court cost which makes up the majority of the ticket. This is what burns my azz. $95 ticket = $80 court cost and $15 fine. Whether I pay or someone else pays its not worth my 4 hrs. in court to save $15. I only say 4 hrs. because I know my luck and my case would be last. It's just a total bunch of crap either way. I understand what your saying about employees but it was explained this is a 1 time thing for the only other driver besides myself.

grass-scapes
01-23-2012, 09:43 PM
I know of nowhere where if you win a court case you have to pay court costs. If its dismissed due to lack of evidence, you don't have to pay court costs.

tony b
01-23-2012, 11:12 PM
I know of nowhere where if you win a court case you have to pay court costs. If its dismissed due to lack of evidence, you don't have to pay court costs.In the great state of Ohio in city courts you pay court costs no matter what. I know because I have done it and trust me they give you tickets for anything and everything. On traffic stops I have never gotten off with a warning. Your best bet on city tickets is to plead not guilty and demand your case be transferred to county court because court costs are generally cheaper. Best of all the city gets very little money from the fine and really pissed off.

Az Gardener
01-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Thoroughly check your state laws regarding the photo tickets. Here in the state of AZ you just have to appear and show them that its not you in the picture and your off the hook. You are not under any legal obligation to tell them who was driving the rig. Many here just ignore the tickets because if you don't appear they have to serve you. So if you can avoid the process server you avoid the ticket.

GreenI.A.
01-24-2012, 10:22 PM
I know of nowhere where if you win a court case you have to pay court costs. If its dismissed due to lack of evidence, you don't have to pay court costs.

Here in MA to fight a traffic violation ticket you must pay $25. You then go infront of the court magistrate and pleed your case. They may dismiss it here but more than likely not. If they do dismiss it you are out that $25. To appeal the magistrates decision and go in front of a judge you must pay an additional $50. If the judge finds in your favor you do not get back the $75 you paid to the state. But the amount you save on the ticket and insurance surchages is well worth it, plus 3 tickets in 12 months results in a 30 day liceanse suspension. The MA supreme Court has found this mandatory filing fee legal.

As far as what one poster said about the camaras being illegal because you can not face the accusor - the accusor is not the officer who pulls you over, it is the state. Here if you fight a ticket the officer doesn't show up, at the first hearing it is just you and a magistrate, if you appeal to a judge then the police department sends a representative. As far as red lights here, All we need is our front tires over the line before the light turns red and you are legal to go through, yellow does not mean to stop, it simply means to proceed with caution and stop if you can safely (something that is hard at that point with a loaded trailer)

tony b
01-25-2012, 08:27 PM
Here in MA to fight a traffic violation ticket you must pay $25. You then go infront of the court magistrate and pleed your case. They may dismiss it here but more than likely not. If they do dismiss it you are out that $25. To appeal the magistrates decision and go in front of a judge you must pay an additional $50. If the judge finds in your favor you do not get back the $75 you paid to the state. But the amount you save on the ticket and insurance surchages is well worth it, plus 3 tickets in 12 months results in a 30 day license suspension. The MA supreme Court has found this mandatory filing fee legal.

As far as what one poster said about the camaras being illegal because you can not face the accusor - the accusor is not the officer who pulls you over, it is the state. Here if you fight a ticket the officer doesn't show up, at the first hearing it is just you and a magistrate, if you appeal to a judge then the police department sends a representative. As far as red lights here, All we need is our front tires over the line before the light turns red and you are legal to go through, yellow does not mean to stop, it simply means to proceed with caution and stop if you can safely (something that is hard at that point with a loaded trailer)

Thank you for your response. I also found out today that all camera tickets are a civil matter (at least in my state). Which means no points and no loss of license for nonpayment. Basically if you don't pay it goes against your credit. At my stage of life I no longer feel the need for credit so I'm not going to pay it. Some on here will once again say I'm an idiot but everyone has an opinion.

Ramairfreak98ss
02-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Wow, another know it all. I have the documentation for the fine and you don't. If you are 50' from the intersection with a crew cab and 20' trailer at 30mph I promise you the light will be red when the trailer clears and no way to stop to keep from running it. If yellow light speed up were the case I wouldn't't be paying. If you don't wan't to join in on the bitchfest I'm having about "big brother" trying to take another bite out of the little guys azz that's fine but don't go on about a model employee anyone on this site would die for being irresponsible. Your definitely not in the know on this one.

In ohio, the trailer matters? In NJ, as @#$%$# as a state we are... as long as your vehicle "front axle of the truck" has breached the line entering the intersection, your now committed to crossing if the light was still yellow... thats not to say that even me on occasion, see a yellow light, 100ft away and figure, we gots plenty of time! , nope, that particular light is only yellow for 3 seconds not 5+ like many others and you run the red by a second or two.

In MD, near DC, in 2009, there's a particular light, "in stop and go traffic" where i got the F350 motoring with an enclosed trailer finally from being stuck in stopped traffic for over 15 minutes, light turns yellow and im already FULL throttle, not far away, i assume ill make this like pie.. nope, 2-3 second yellow light and i drove through it at least a second or two after it was red.... the traffic cam apparently is mounted behind you and probably took a photo of the top of the trailer/truck and didn't get the tag.... my g/f drove the same road a half hour later in her mustang,, same deal happened exactly and i have her photo ticket for $280 :/ Id like to bulldoze that light/camera down and see how they like making profits off of people then!

Patriot Services
02-04-2012, 10:12 AM
And the legalized shakedown of citizens to finance big government continues.
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