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Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Just wondering if anyone here has ever tried to establish a Zoysia lawn by seed? I have never seen it attempted here. The closest I have seen is a guy in one of the neighborhoods I service attempted to sprig a zoysia lawn and that did not work to well for him as it was roughly two years ago and his lawn is essentially common bermuda. This gentleman however does not appear to use a L & O company or do any sustained mgmt to the lawn himself from talking to him.

IFAS does say that Zoysia japonica can be properly established by seed but as stated I have never seen it done here. I am assuming there is a reason and I know the cost of the seed itself is expensive however I would assume it would be lower than sod if it is able to be grown here.

unkownfl
01-22-2012, 01:57 PM
I priced it out before. By the time I bought the seed, moss, fert, and irrigation it would be almost the same price. This was I think around 2500 sqft.

agrostis
01-22-2012, 02:18 PM
Beside's the seed itself being small, and zoysia being hard to grow without irrigation and growing a bunch of undesirable plant's along with the seed is that all you can seed in common zoysia. Hybrid sod with irrigation is the way to go IMO.

Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 02:34 PM
and zoysia being hard to grow without irrigation

That is the thing. All newer homes I have seen down here have irrigation and most older homes do too inside metro areas anyway. So the irrigation can not be the issue. The seed is small but would be similar in size or larger than Kentucky bluegrass seed, and that does not stop it from being the most utilized cool season turf . So I do not think that can be it.

Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 02:38 PM
I priced it out before. By the time I bought the seed, moss, fert, and irrigation it would be almost the same price. This was I think around 2500 sqft.

Do you remember the type? Was it Zenith? I was just reviewing as I was pondering this question. Currently you can get 12lbs online for less than $400. Assuming a rate of 2lb to 3lbs per k - that bag could potentially cover 4 to 6 K for that $400. The seed should not be covered with a mulch/straw from my understanding to help it germinate properly. Although I agree it is not a cheap process I am thinking it is still cheaper than sodding and there must be another reason that is is not being done often down here. Maybe I am wrong I don't know.

unkownfl
01-22-2012, 02:59 PM
I forgot what it was. That was another problem it was a hard sale because the customer wanted empire. You know it takes almost half the growing season to establish. That is why it's hard to get zoysia sod until June. I know most farms grow it from seed.

Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 03:20 PM
I forgot what it was. That was another problem it was a hard sale because the customer wanted empire. You know it takes almost half the growing season to establish. That is why it's hard to get zoysia sod until June. I know most farms grow it from seed.

I think you are getting a valid point which I wonder if is not the reason for lack of at least attempting to plant it down here and that is the establishment period . The main thing I can see being a issue is the range of temps that is ideal for renovating a lawn from seed. That being for us 80 to 95 degrees to my understanding for warm season turf. Further taking into consideration that you really would most not likely be served well by doing a fall planting when this temps are common place because the likelihood of the young tender turf being damaged by a frost. That would essentially mean your window of opportunity of success would most likely only really lye in the early spring before it got two hot for the recommended temps and the spring growth of weeds. But I am just guessing at this point and was looking for maybe a solid answer from someone who had attempted it or could answer in a absolute answer why this is not attempted or performed more often down here. Obviously they are doing it in states north of here otherwise the seed would not be commercially available....so why are we so different again down here?

fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:39 PM
I think you are getting a valid point which I wonder if is not the reason for lack of at least attempting to plant it down here and that is the establishment period . The main thing I can see being a issue is the range of temps that is ideal for renovating a lawn from seed. That being for us 80 to 95 degrees to my understanding for warm season turf. Further taking into consideration that you really would most not likely be served well by doing a fall planting when this temps are common place because the likelihood of the young tender turf being damaged by a frost. That would essentially mean your window of opportunity of success would most likely only really lye in the early spring before it got two hot for the recommended temps and the spring growth of weeds. But I am just guessing at this point and was looking for maybe a solid answer from someone who had attempted it or could answer in a absolute answer why this is not attempted or performed more often down here. Obviously they are doing it in states north of here otherwise the seed would not be commercially available....so why are we so different again down here?

Mike I do a lot of seed work. I can tell you from experience zoysia takes a long period of time to germinate which causes a lot of weed issues as well as an extended period of time to irrigate and babysit. From my own experience length of time to establish is the reason I refuse to ever try and establish zoysia by seed again.
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fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:41 PM
Ric will tell you I over seeded one of his customers zoysia lawns. I gave them the seed for free because I just wanted to get rid of it! That was an expensive freeebie but i was happy to be rid of it. I seed successfully with Bermuda all the time as a Bahia alternative, summer is the best time unlike cool season grasses
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Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 06:43 PM
Mike I do a lot of seed work. I can tell you from experience zoysia takes a long period of time to germinate which causes a lot of weed issues as well as an extended period of time to irrigate and babysit. From my own experience length of time to establish is the reason I refuse to ever try and establish zoysia by seed again.
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Thanks FL,

I was kind of hoping from a response from you or someone like yourself that does lots of seed. That puts it to rest I guess but any clue as why they use seed up north but we dont to seem to have as good as luck down here?

Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 06:45 PM
Ric will tell you I over seeded one of his customers zoysia lawns. I gave them the seed for free because I just wanted to get rid of it! That was an expensive freeebie but i was happy to be rid of it. I seed successfully with Bermuda all the time as a Bahia alternative, summer is the best time unlike cool season grasses
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I know you have done a good amount of Bermuda, and I am still amazed as tough as that turf is that it is not the primary turf down here.

fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:48 PM
Thanks FL,

I was kind of hoping from a response from you or someone like yourself that does lots of seed. That puts it to rest I guess but any clue as why they use seed up north but we dont to seem to have as good as luck down here?

St Augustine seed isn't available so that's a big factor. Zoysia takes to long to establish. Bermuda is very common in the south, just not in Florida where they love st Augustine also a lot of Bermuda lawns are hybrid turf which is sterile so no seed. Common Bermuda is fairly easy to establish and is commonly used on golf course fairways and medium level home lawns.
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fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:49 PM
I know you have done a good amount of Bermuda, and I am still amazed as tough as that turf is that it is not the primary turf down here.

Bermuda grass is the number one turf in the southern united states. Just not Florida? I love it compared to Bahia and if maintained properly I like it better than st Augustine for softer feel, better wear tolerance, drought tolerance and ease of repair with seed.
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Patriot Services
01-22-2012, 06:51 PM
I know you have done a good amount of Bermuda, and I am still amazed as tough as that turf is that it is not the primary turf down here.

It is. It's not by most people's choice though. Even some of the best SA yards seem to have little patches of it.
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fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:52 PM
Notbto mention much more herbicide tolerant
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fl-landscapes
01-22-2012, 06:53 PM
It is. It's not by most people's choice though. Even some of the best SA yards seem to have little patches of it.
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Fl loves st Augustine. Go to other southern states and it's predominantly Bermuda.
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Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 09:01 PM
Fl loves st Augustine. Go to other southern states and it's predominantly Bermuda.
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Bermuda is the most used grass of the warm season turfs except from what I have seen in FL. Essentially it is equal to KBG in for the cool season turfs. I am pretty sure I learned that in some class too FL? You wouldn't know what course I am talking about would you?:rolleyes:

Landscape Poet
01-22-2012, 09:03 PM
Notbto mention much more herbicide tolerant
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Deeper roots....rhizomes and stolens to spread more aggressively....so again why is it that SA is all over here? LOL I know I know so we all get paid. payuppayuppayup

greendoctor
01-23-2012, 03:11 AM
On the zoysia by seed: DON'T do it! It is one of the slowest turf grasses to germinate and the germination rate is horrible. You are better off doing the next worst method of broadcasting shredded sod, then topping with either compost or hydromulch. The texture and appearance of the grass is also terrible. It is very coarse and not tight like how the selected varieties of zoysia are. It also is much more susceptible to dollar spot than the selected varieties. By the time you figure out what the post planting maintenance and water costs will be, sod is not that bad. Pinch pennies doing seeds or shredded sod, pay up for water, weed control, fertilization and redoing areas that do not take.

I have come to appreciate St Augustine because it is one of the easier warm season turf types to mow. Bahia is hard to mow. Centipede is not too bad. Then with bermuda and zoysia, those grasses do not look very good unless mowed low with a reel mower. I also notice that bermuda and zoysia need more attention paid to fertilization for an attractive appearance. Centipede is extremely picky about where it will grow. The soil has to be acidic, low in salts and well drained. Which leaves St Augustine. That will grow very well in most soils and does not want or need to be cut like a putting green. St Augustine is not a common turf type in my state. It is mostly zoysia, followed by seashore paspalum, then bermuda. Bermuda is a rare occurence in maintained landscapes here. Much of it was lost in the 1980's through the 1990's to Take All decline disease. At one time, many fine lawns were either Tifdwarf or Tifgreen. The old Emerald zoysia lawns established before I was even born survived and the new ones planted with El Toro zoysia made it.

Ric
01-23-2012, 08:45 AM
Ric will tell you I over seeded one of his customers zoysia lawns. I gave them the seed for free because I just wanted to get rid of it! That was an expensive freeebie but i was happy to be rid of it. I seed successfully with Bermuda all the time as a Bahia alternative, summer is the best time unlike cool season grasses
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fl-land

We saw a favorable response from the treatment you did. I am not sure the seed actually helped as much as the Top Dressing did. The yard did a beautiful turn around after the top dressing. I do want to believe that some of the seed germinated but I can't say all of it did.