PDA

View Full Version : New Turf Tiger - Which Engine


pblc
01-30-2012, 10:50 PM
We are looking at picking up a couple new Turf Tigers. In the past we have been running the 29 Kawaski DFI. I've been looking at the Kohler 31 EFI model. Does anyone have any experience with these on the Scag mowers?

Dealer says they're $500 less than the 29 Kawaski - and they're 2 hp higher - so I've thought about giving them a go.....

Thanks. :usflag:

weeze
01-30-2012, 10:54 PM
i'm just curious to know why you would choose the turf tiger over the cheetah? i looked at my dealer and the turf tiger with 27hp kohler is about the same price as a cheetah with a 34hp kohler. cheetah goes 16mph/turf tiger goes 12mph, cheetah holds 15gallons of gas/turf tiger holds 10gallons, cheetah has suspension platform/turf tiger has suspension seat. to me i'd choose the cheetah. i don't see any reason to choose the turf tiger over the cheetah.

pblc
01-30-2012, 11:08 PM
The Turf Tiger is a larger mower that we like better than smaller framed mowers. Also, only the Turf Tiger models have the fuel injected engines available - which are much more fuel efficient.

weeze
01-30-2012, 11:14 PM
fair enough. i've never had a dfi or efi engine so i'm not sure which is better.

srl28
01-30-2012, 11:22 PM
Absolutely no need for a mower to go 16mph. Not cutting grass at that speed either, not well at least.

We have 3 identical Scag turf tigers with the 35hp briggs big block. Great maintenance free engines. Lots of power, not sure how much more than the other engines though. Sucks down fuel pretty good but not terribly more than others. I will be looking into other engines when I replace these 3 this year though.

pblc
01-30-2012, 11:24 PM
Also, you can't cut at 16mph - correction, you cant cut well - and a 10 gallon tank (as in the Tiger) will last us all day - so any extra is extra weight to lug around all day.

weeze
01-30-2012, 11:54 PM
it's funny how when i state facts people start flaming me for it. :dizzy: i never said cut the grass at 16mph. most of the time you wouldn't but if something came up where you had a smooth, flat lawn without thick growth you would be able to cut it faster on the cheetah. the extra is there just in case you need it so why not have it if you can get it at the same price?

i have an 11.5 gallon tank on my mower. i can go for 3 days before i have to fill it up again. i think that's kindof nice. it saves time not having to stop by the gas station every day.

canes2win
01-31-2012, 12:48 AM
i ask the scag dealer on why the speed is so fast.... because i thought the same, 16 MPH is crazy, but he was telling me that the answer he got was scag was going for the landscapers that have a few accounts in the same area, and instead of putting the mower on the trailer, that they could just run the mower on the road and get there faster than loading and unloading.

weeze
01-31-2012, 12:53 AM
yeah it's mostly for transport speed but if you were on a smooth yard and only cutting off a few inches you could go 16mph and cut it just as good. super z and dixie chopper have been going 15mph for many years now. it's not anything new.

highlander316
01-31-2012, 09:57 AM
new Scag catalog doesn't show the Kohler 31EFI listed anymore. I wonder why? I was curious as to potentially picking up that model this year if this pan out account wise.

pblc
01-31-2012, 10:07 AM
Website has the 31 Kohler fuel injected listed.
Posted via Mobile Device

djagusch
01-31-2012, 10:36 AM
it's funny how when i state facts people start flaming me for it. :dizzy: i never said cut the grass at 16mph. most of the time you wouldn't but if something came up where you had a smooth, flat lawn without thick growth you would be able to cut it faster on the cheetah. the extra is there just in case you need it so why not have it if you can get it at the same price?

i have an 11.5 gallon tank on my mower. i can go for 3 days before i have to fill it up again. i think that's kindof nice. it saves time not having to stop by the gas station every day.

I think its funny that you don't have much seat time on either and just post up specs. Then when people with experience come in you keep to the spec sheet. Its all about real world mower, not what a sales sheet says.
Posted via Mobile Device

djagusch
01-31-2012, 10:44 AM
We are looking at picking up a couple new Turf Tigers. In the past we have been running the 29 Kawaski DFI. I've been looking at the Kohler 31 EFI model. Does anyone have any experience with these on the Scag mowers?

Dealer says they're $500 less than the 29 Kawaski - and they're 2 hp higher - so I've thought about giving them a go.....

Thanks. :usflag:

The kohler has a closed loop fuel injection (has an o2 sensor) which in theory makes the engine adapt to the conditions better. The kawi is open loop which means it has a set fuel injection map which doesn't adapt to the conditions.

That being said the kawi is proven over time with less parts that can wear out. I don't see the kohler getting the increased gph with their system. Most likely gph will be close.

On the hp rating the 29dfi isn't even rated at 29 hp due to new testing standards by kawi. I would check if kohler is using the same sae testing procedure or something else.

I would personally stay with the kawi as you know the engine and they are proven to last.
Posted via Mobile Device

SouthSide Cutter
01-31-2012, 11:35 AM
it's funny how when i state facts people start flaming me for it. :dizzy: i never said cut the grass at 16mph. most of the time you wouldn't but if something came up where you had a smooth, flat lawn without thick growth you would be able to cut it faster on the cheetah. the extra is there just in case you need it so why not have it if you can get it at the same price?

i have an 11.5 gallon tank on my mower. i can go for 3 days before i have to fill it up again. i think that's kindof nice. it saves time not having to stop by the gas station every day.

You might go three days but how much grass you cutting.

SouthSide Cutter
01-31-2012, 11:41 AM
We are looking at picking up a couple new Turf Tigers. In the past we have been running the 29 Kawaski DFI. I've been looking at the Kohler 31 EFI model. Does anyone have any experience with these on the Scag mowers?

Dealer says they're $500 less than the 29 Kawaski - and they're 2 hp higher - so I've thought about giving them a go.....

Thanks. :usflag:

My dealer said the same thing on hp. I got a 29 and will get the 31 next. It also has a 3 year war. He said they are as good as the 29 on fuel.

weeze
01-31-2012, 12:32 PM
I think its funny that you don't have much seat time on either and just post up specs. Then when people with experience come in you keep to the spec sheet. Its all about real world mower, not what a sales sheet says.
Posted via Mobile Device

so you are saying the turf tiger goes faster and holds more gas and has more hp than the cheetah? in the real world that's not true. facts are facts dude. it's not a sales pitch. it's reality. you can't argue facts. you dont' have to ride a mower to understand that. if you like the turf tiger better then buy it. it's a great mower as well. i'm just pointing out they are in the same price range and you get alot more with the cheetah.

weeze
01-31-2012, 12:34 PM
You might go three days but how much grass you cutting.

i'm solo so not as much as a crew does. about 3-4hrs a day on the mower on average.

djagusch
01-31-2012, 12:53 PM
so you are saying the turf tiger goes faster and holds more gas and has more hp than the cheetah? in the real world that's not true. facts are facts dude. it's not a sales pitch. it's reality. you can't argue facts. you dont' have to ride a mower to understand that. if you like the turf tiger better then buy it. it's a great mower as well. i'm just pointing out they are in the same price range and you get alot more with the cheetah.

You do realize that a tt deoes offer a 35 hp engine which is the 2nd largest seller for the TT (1st in the 29dfi in my area). If you use 10gallons or less in a day then does the extra 5gal mean anything (it can't go 2 full days). For the speed its for a certain situation that most don't need. Its like buying your next truck based on it has 5 cupholders for the driver while you only need 1 (possible 2).

The other thing that the specs miss is how much pwr the certain mower needs, how much fuel it uses, and how fast it can cut. Way different hydros on each mower which takes different pwr. The deck drive also takes different amounts. Just more to it then a spec sheet.
Posted via Mobile Device

4 seasons lawn&land
01-31-2012, 03:14 PM
The TT is a beefier more commercial mower and the under seat tank is an infinitely better design than the up high side mount ones. I found that out going from ferris to Toro G3

weaver
01-31-2012, 04:38 PM
Absolutely no need for a mower to go 16mph. Not cutting grass at that speed either, not well at least.

We have 3 identical Scag turf tigers with the 35hp briggs big block. Great maintenance free engines. Lots of power, not sure how much more than the other engines though. Sucks down fuel pretty good but not terribly more than others. I will be looking into other engines when I replace these 3 this year though.

I don't think they really go 16 mph. Hustlers are rated at 15 mph and if you watch the video you can clearly se who is the fastest. But i would'nt mow that fast neither.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxmVdUNADc4

zmowing
01-31-2012, 07:09 PM
i was at my dealer talking about turf tiger today heres my take 31 EFI BURNS 1.6 gal per hour 28 D burns 1.7 gal per hour I will not by a mower with out EFI 25% fuel saving on EFI

weeze
01-31-2012, 11:11 PM
You do realize that a tt deoes offer a 35 hp engine which is the 2nd largest seller for the TT (1st in the 29dfi in my area). If you use 10gallons or less in a day then does the extra 5gal mean anything (it can't go 2 full days). For the speed its for a certain situation that most don't need. Its like buying your next truck based on it has 5 cupholders for the driver while you only need 1 (possible 2).

The other thing that the specs miss is how much pwr the certain mower needs, how much fuel it uses, and how fast it can cut. Way different hydros on each mower which takes different pwr. The deck drive also takes different amounts. Just more to it then a spec sheet.
Posted via Mobile Device

yeah i know the tt is offered with a 35hp vanguard engine. i'm sure the price is higher on that one than the tt with a 27hp kohler engine as well. here's the prices at my dealer. they are almost the same for a 27hp tt and a 34hp cheetah.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vdp6pd.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/ndomjt.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/34rakur.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/213gkcw.jpg

i can mow 3 days with 11.5 gallon tank since i work solo and only mow 3-4hrs a day. the rest of the time i'm driving, trimming, blowing, edging, etc. a 15gallon tank would last me 4 days before i had to refuel. could always get a 31hp kawi engine on the cheetah and get better gas mileage than the 34hp kohler and it would probably cost less to buy. i would think the driveshaft on the tt would take more power to turn than the belt on the cheetah. if i was gonna get either one i'd get at least a 31hp engine for the 61" decks. 27hp seems underpowered for a 61" deck to me. i guess you could get by with the 29hp.

djagusch
02-01-2012, 11:14 AM
35HP TT bought last year $9,300 OTD. Most would get it under $10K. Why don't you ask the dealer what a 35HP Briggs cost?

pugs
02-01-2012, 01:43 PM
Yah, Honestly there is no point in buying a Kohler 27 or whatever the smallest engine is. The 61" with the Kohler was maybe 100 or 200 less than the 35HP Briggs and the Briggs came with a Suspension seat while the Kohler did not.

As for the 31EFI Kohler vs the 29DFI Kawasaki, I have no idea. I know the Kawasaki is proven in that machine. It seems like they do not sell many of the 31EFI's. I had a company down the street that was using those 31EFI's in the carpet cleaning equipment they made and they seemed to like the Kohler Aegis alot. They used EFI and non EFI versions. Kawasaki LC engines seemed to have issues in the carpet cleaning environment. Prone to overheating/blowing head gaskets. Although the carpet cleaners run them in cramped quarters and generally have crazy exhaust routing that is used to heat their water but isnt good for the engines.

weeze
02-01-2012, 02:13 PM
35HP TT bought last year $9,300 OTD. Most would get it under $10K. Why don't you ask the dealer what a 35HP Briggs cost?

you may be right. so what would be the point of buying the 27hp kohler if the 35hp is cheaper? that's 8 more hp at no extra charge. i was just going by what my dealer had in stock at the moment. if i was gonna buy one of those two mowers i would get the cheetah no question about it. if they had the 35hp vanguard for the same price i think i would still get the cheetah just for the extra speed/gas capacity.

djagusch
02-01-2012, 02:51 PM
you may be right. so what would be the point of buying the 27hp kohler if the 35hp is cheaper? that's 8 more hp at no extra charge. i was just going by what my dealer had in stock at the moment. if i was gonna buy one of those two mowers i would get the cheetah no question about it. if they had the 35hp vanguard for the same price i think i would still get the cheetah just for the extra speed/gas capacity.

The dealer wasn't thinking when he ordered the mower. 29HP TT's and above come with the susupension seat and 12mph. The 27HP TT's have the standard seat and 10 mph. No reason to order a 27HP unless a guy just wants one because that is what he wants.

weeze
02-01-2012, 02:57 PM
yeah perhaps that one is more for the homeowner since alot of homes around here have alot of acreage. i remember seeing one there last year that had a 27hp kawi engine on it for about the same price. it's gone so i guess they sold it to someone. i just think that price is high for only getting 27hp which is one reason i went to the deere dealer when i bought my mower last year. i got mine for $7900 and it's only 1hp less and has 54" deck instead of 61". it was $2500 cheaper though.

djagusch
02-01-2012, 04:30 PM
yeah perhaps that one is more for the homeowner since alot of homes around here have alot of acreage. i remember seeing one there last year that had a 27hp kawi engine on it for about the same price. it's gone so i guess they sold it to someone. i just think that price is high for only getting 27hp which is one reason i went to the deere dealer when i bought my mower last year. i got mine for $7900 and it's only 1hp less and has 54" deck instead of 61". it was $2500 cheaper though.

There is more different in the JD to TT than a bigger deck for the extra $2500. It would be only $1400 more for a TT 35Briggs with a 61" deck.

weeze
02-01-2012, 05:45 PM
well yeah there are more differences. the tt has shaft driven mower deck, it's liquid cooled, has an oil-cooler, dfi, etc. it's more complicated. the john deere is simple which i like. the cheetah is built more of the way the john deere is. air cooled/ carbuerated engines only, belt driven spindles, etc. it would be nice to have an efi engine but that's about as complicated as i wanna go on a mower. tt has 20 grease zerks, john deere has 5. to me simpler is better. air cooled you'll never have to worry about coolant leaking out of a hose or anything. no oil cooler to have to blow out to keep clean so it will do it's job. not a big deal but little things like that just add up.

djagusch
02-01-2012, 05:57 PM
well yeah there are more differences. the tt has shaft driven mower deck, it's liquid cooled, has an oil-cooler, dfi, etc. it's more complicated. the john deere is simple which i like. the cheetah is built more of the way the john deere is. air cooled/ carbuerated engines only, belt driven spindles, etc. it would be nice to have an efi engine but that's about as complicated as i wanna go on a mower. tt has 20 grease zerks, john deere has 5. to me simpler is better. air cooled you'll never have to worry about coolant leaking out of a hose or anything. no oil cooler to have to blow out to keep clean so it will do it's job. not a big deal but little things like that just add up.

Compare the mowers after 5 yrs and you will see a big difference.

djagusch
02-01-2012, 06:13 PM
Or you could compare a 10yr old TT to a 10 yr old JD ztr, what model did they have back then? obvouisly didn't have the impact to the industry that the TT did.

I don't even know if JD made ztr's in 2002.
Posted via Mobile Device

weeze
02-01-2012, 07:18 PM
i'm not saying the JD is better than the TT. I'm just saying for the price it's a better value. $7900 vs. $10,599. i venture to say my dealer wouldn't offer the 35hp briggs for $9,300. the 27hp is 10,599 and it's a kohler not a kawi so i would think the 35hp would be very close in price to that at my dealer if not more. perhaps you got a great deal which is awesome but i doubt that is the normal price for it. i would think at my dealer you could talk them down to $10k even but that's still $2k more than the deere i bought. there's alot of deere 700 series still going strong out there. i'm not sure how old they are as i wasn't in business back then and didn't keep up with mowers. the 900 series is completely different so you can't compare them to older john deeres. after 5-10 years i would be ready to change mowers anyways. mowers 5 years from now will be alot different from current mowers. things are always changing.

anyways we are getting way off topic.

krrp1212
03-25-2012, 06:03 PM
i have 2 almost brand new TT's. One 72" 35 Briggs, its a beast...very fast and cuts better than my 61". But the 35 briggs sucks about 1.9 gallons per hours...when i can run my 61" which is the kawasaki 29dfi for 8-9 hours depending on cutting conditions. the fuel injection is really nice. i would personally recommend the 29dfi for a 61". We got the 35 hp on the 72" because its a 72". And the guy with the john deere is in a whole other league and shouldnt even be commenting on this...sounds like he has never driven anything but his "GREAT" john deere 3 hours a day.
id go with the 29DFI...great mileage and plenty of power.

mach14604
04-11-2012, 10:58 PM
I have had both of these engines on my turf tigers. I had the 29hp kawi first. I liked the motor but felt like it was underpowered. I had a bagger on it also. Mowing without the bagger was okay but not great.
For the 31hp Kohler. I am on motor number 3. I GET CRAPPY ANSWERS FROM THE REP, KOHLER,DEALER AND SCAG. I did find that it dumps large amounts of coolant out of the over fill bottle it was remedied by me when i put a grommet around the tube and bottle hole. I like the motor but it used coolant even with engine number 3 there are issues. It still uses coolant and my dealer can not get the idle correct. The throttle cable is too close to the exhaust and it melts. The more had a good deal of power and like it in that aspect.
Both motors are out of this world on fuel. They conserve gas so well. I have been demoing with carb motors again and I realize how much I am missing with not having efi.

pvbooner
04-12-2012, 11:56 AM
The other thing that the specs miss is how much pwr the certain mower needs, how much fuel it uses, and how fast it can cut. Way different hydros on each mower which takes different pwr. The deck drive also takes different amounts. Just more to it then a spec sheet.
Posted via Mobile Device[/QUOTE]

They actually have the same deck and I assure you that the 5400 wheel motor does not take near the hp to run as the traditional pumps and wheel motors do.

taylo708
04-12-2012, 02:58 PM
I have had both of these engines on my turf tigers. I had the 29hp kawi first. I liked the motor but felt like it was underpowered. I had a bagger on it also. Mowing without the bagger was okay but not great.
For the 31hp Kohler. I am on motor number 3. I GET CRAPPY ANSWERS FROM THE REP, KOHLER,DEALER AND SCAG. I did find that it dumps large amounts of coolant out of the over fill bottle it was remedied by me when i put a grommet around the tube and bottle hole. I like the motor but it used coolant even with engine number 3 there are issues. It still uses coolant and my dealer can not get the idle correct. The throttle cable is too close to the exhaust and it melts. The more had a good deal of power and like it in that aspect.
Both motors are out of this world on fuel. They conserve gas so well. I have been demoing with carb motors again and I realize how much I am missing with not having efi.

I also have a 31hp kohler and am on my second engine with just over 200hrs on it, and also uses coolant and has thrown codes since the day I bought it. I had to build a heat shield for my throttle due to it melting and becoming stuck, before the first motor blew up it also burned up an ecu due to not having some resistor or something on it which was not on some of the earlier motors I guess. I have since purchased the 35hp vanguard, love that motor much better power and is simple to work on if ever need to. Also if you run the 31 out of gas it takes a lot of cranking to prime the system and start. It says to turn the key and let the fuel pump run for 30 seconds or something but that does not work. I would stay clear of the 31 kohler.

mtmower
04-12-2012, 04:17 PM
From what I've been told the Kohler EFI system is a much better system being a closed loop like an engine in a car. Always adjusting. I've been told also that the carb. Kohlers, for what ever reason have the kiss of death and the EFI are great. I don't know if liquid cool vs air cooled play a factor in this. The numbers I've seen still put the Kohler on top for fuel savings.

I have a 28 EFI Kohler on a 66" Super Z and it has just enough power for normal mowing with this deck and pump set up. Don't even think about it if you're thinking of bagging with this set up. The 30 may be better but I'd want to demo it. Other than a lack of power due to the pumps, deck size, and bagger, the engine has been flawless at 1000 plus hrs. Starts great, runs smooth, quieter then some, hydraulic adjusting valves, and no choke (it's the small things).

To compare it, I had a 60" Super Z with the Honda 24 hp and the 24 had more torque and hp then my Kohler 28 EFI. But it was running a smaller deck and IMO Honda under rates their engines hp (and their coils, 3 in 1000 hrs).

The only other gripe I've had with EFI (and this may be Hustler) is if you run it out of fuel it's a bear to prime and get running again. No matter how quick I am on the fuel tank selector lever, I still end up spending 15-20 min. pulling the pick up line out of the tank and removing the the pickup/check ball end from the line to alleviate the pressure. Why pressure on a suction line I don't know. Once the pressure is off it can be primed and starts fine. Of course you stink of gas the rest of the day. So don't run them out of fuel unless things have changed.

The DFI Kawasaki I've been told will soon be all Kawasaki is producing. They're supposed to faze out the carbs. altogether. IMO the Kawasaki may have more hp and torque but they have had their share of problems as well (cams,valve, cranks) which I think have been resolved.

If the brand of mower I buy next offers EFI or DFI I will surely consider it if it has enough hp for the mower (deck size, pump size, optional bagger, etc.).

weeze
04-13-2012, 12:07 AM
i actually mowed 3 1/2 hrs today. :rolleyes:

trimmed, edged, and blowed the other 3 1/2. :)

tacoma200
04-13-2012, 02:02 AM
I'm curious why someone would choose a Cheetah over a Turf Tiger for cutting grass. Speed and comfort are better on the Cheetah no doubt. I cannot cut faster than the Turf Tiger can run in my conditions so the extra 4 mph is a non issue. Yes the Cheetah has a better ride but it can't go where the Turf Tiger can. The Turf Tiger is one of the most proven designs and has stood the test of time. The Cheetah simply can't follow the Turf Tiger in the places I cut. If you cut flat area's then yes the Cheetah maybe a better deal but not a better mower.

pvbooner
04-13-2012, 11:05 AM
I'm curious why someone would choose a Cheetah over a Turf Tiger for cutting grass. Speed and comfort are better on the Cheetah no doubt. I cannot cut faster than the Turf Tiger can run in my conditions so the extra 4 mph is a non issue. Yes the Cheetah has a better ride but it can't go where the Turf Tiger can. The Turf Tiger is one of the most proven designs and has stood the test of time. The Cheetah simply can't follow the Turf Tiger in the places I cut. If you cut flat area's then yes the Cheetah maybe a better deal but not a better mower.

My cheetah handles the steepest areas I mow without any problem. It offers a much better ride with the same high quality deck. The only thing that I was hesitant about with the cheetah was the drive system and after a ton of research I found that they were not having any problems with the 5400's. To me the cheetah was also a much better handling mower. It seams much shorter and compact and the controls are much more responsive and adjustable(dampening). For me the high speed is not something really use but I do have two accounts that are a short distance apart down a busy road and I do kick it in high range to get off the road quicker. I also like the fact that it holds a little more fuel and it came with an engine that I was more comfortable with(34 kohler). This is why I choose the cheetah over the TT. It was the right choice FOR ME and I am glad I went with the cheetah.

Curtis
04-13-2012, 11:38 AM
I was considering the Cheetah with the 31kawi , the 34 kohler would probably use more fuel than I would like. Where would the TT go that the Cheetah cant ? I have some hills that would be an issue for me. I guess you could run a bagger with either engine. We do have alot of flat areas I thought the TT might slow us down being a heavier machine. Too bad they dont offer a DFI engine for the Cheetah.

rob1325
04-13-2012, 10:38 PM
Next year cheetahs will offer DFI engines and 48" & 52" decks. I have 31 hp Kohler and only problem I had was valve gear in motor cracked. They put new motor on under warranty at 900 hrs. Also scag offers heat shield for the melting throttle cable. IMO 29 kawi is under powered, wish they would offer 31 kawi DFI liquid cooled.

mtmower
04-16-2012, 04:01 PM
Also, you can't cut at 16mph - correction, you cant cut well - and a 10 gallon tank (as in the Tiger) will last us all day - so any extra is extra weight to lug around all day.

Web site is saying TT has 8.5 gallon tanks! :dizzy: I think that's the smallest I've heard of on a large commercial Z

mach14604
04-16-2012, 08:00 PM
I think the TT has 10 at least mine does. I know it is not 8.5

mtmower
04-16-2012, 10:50 PM
I think the TT has 10 at least mine does. I know it is not 8.5

I bet it's the same thing as Hustler. Last model had 14 gallon capacity and this new model looks like the same tanks but they installed something in the tanks to meet EPA and now there back down to 12 gallons.

I wonder if Scag did the same thing? The only thing on the Scag web site claiming 10 gallons is the diesel.