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tyler_mott85
02-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Looking for information on Class 5 Trucks. looking for a payload of 10,000+ but under 26,000 gvwr.

Looked at the Isuzu NRR earlier and I believe the Dodge 5500's fit the bill. Just wondering what, if any of, you use. Would be putting a 12-14ft dumping bed on it and carrying up to 10cu yds of material while pulling an enclosed trailer.

Any info you guys have is appreciated.

Oh the day dreams are fun! :clapping:

Kelly's Landscaping
02-07-2012, 01:33 AM
I have the Dodge 4500 and have like a 7k payload on that, the 5500 I think is 11k before you add the bed. That's as big as the dodges go around 19000 gvw if you want 26000 your going to have to bump up to a f650 or the gmc/chevy 6500 but I don't even know if they make them any more. There is always international if you want the want 26000.

stuvecorp
02-07-2012, 02:38 AM
I have a 19,500 gvw F550 that can carry 10,400 pounds. It has an 11' contractors box. You do have to check because there are some 17,500 gvw 550's out there so you couldn't carry as much.

I don't know what some of the low profile medium duty(25,999#) weight empty? If they are fairly light they could carry some nice loads and still be under CDL(in theory...).

KS_Grasscutter
02-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Dont forget it needs to have a low enough GVW that when you hook the trailer to it you wont be over 26k. If your trailer has 5200lb axles that limits you to something thats rated under 15,600lbs.

Duffster
02-21-2012, 09:57 PM
Dont forget it needs to have a low enough GVW that when you hook the trailer to it you wont be over 26k. If your trailer has 5200lb axles that limits you to something thats rated under 15,600lbs.

WTF does axle ratings have to do with the price of tea in china?

KS_Grasscutter
02-21-2012, 10:02 PM
WTF does axle ratings have to do with the price of tea in china?

If a trailer has two 5200 lb axles it's gvw is 10,400. If it has 3500 lb axles it's gvw is 7k. State troopers count lug nuts on roadside inspections rather then look at the serial number plate.

Duffster
02-21-2012, 10:31 PM
If a trailer has two 5200 lb axles it's gvw is 10,400. If it has 3500 lb axles it's gvw is 7k.

Wrong.

GVWR often does not = sum of the GAWR.

Most trailers with 5200's don't have a GVWR of 10,400. MOst are 10k even. Allowing them to be towed with trucks up to 26k GVWR and still be under CDL.

ps I think you mean GVWR not GVW. ;)

KS_Grasscutter
02-22-2012, 02:16 AM
Wrong.


ps I think you mean GVWR not GVW. ;)

I WILL agree with that. Still pretty sure I'm right about the lugnut thing though...

pitrack
02-22-2012, 02:55 AM
Dont forget it needs to have a low enough GVW that when you hook the trailer to it you wont be over 26k. If your trailer has 5200lb axles that limits you to something thats rated under 15,600lbs.

That's how it is in NE too. I remember this because I always figured a 5500 would be best but then if you pull a 10k trailer you are over the 26k limit. So really if you're pulling any trailer worth a crap maybe a 4500 would be better so you don't have to mess with CDL.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 08:20 AM
I WILL agree with that. Still pretty sure I'm right about the lugnut thing though...

Nope, you're still wrong. LOL

Counting lugs still don't tell you sh!t. Axles can be derated too.

That's how it is in NE too. I remember this because I always figured a 5500 would be best but then if you pull a 10k trailer you are over the 26k limit. So really if you're pulling any trailer worth a crap maybe a 4500 would be better so you don't have to mess with CDL.

If the trailer is only 10k then the limit before CDL is 36k.

ParkWelding
02-22-2012, 09:32 AM
I WILL agree with that. Still pretty sure I'm right about the lugnut thing though...

Lugnuts or number of studs doesn't matter. You could have 6K or 7K axles with 5 lug UTG style hubs. You could have 8 lug 12"x2" drums on 5200# axles with 12"x2" brakes. You could have 8 lug wheels on 8K axles.

GQLL
02-22-2012, 11:02 AM
The best way to find out your cdl requirements is to not listen to forums and contact your local dot office and get them to tell you what the requirement are.

pitrack
02-22-2012, 12:31 PM
Nope, you're still wrong. LOL

Counting lugs still don't tell you sh!t. Axles can be derated too.



If the trailer is only 10k then the limit before CDL is 36k.

I was under the impression that as soon as your truck and trailer combined rating is over 26k you need a CDL.

So basically federal laws say that as long as the truck is less than 26k you can ALSO pull a trailer up to 10k and still not need a CDL. But most of the time each state has a different law than federal when it comes to DOT correct?

I would still think as soon as you hook up a trailer with two 5200# axles which has a rating of 10,400 to a truck with a rating of over 16k you would be over because the trailer being towed is NOT less than a 10k rating. Isn't that basically what the federal law is saying? So you need to find a trailer with exactly a 10k rating for that to work and nothing over that.

pitrack
02-22-2012, 12:32 PM
The best way to find out your cdl requirements is to not listen to forums and contact your local dot office and get them to tell you what the requirement are.

Probably the best post in this thread, the rules are different everywhere.

ParkWelding
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
I was under the impression that as soon as your truck and trailer combined rating is over 26k you need a CDL.

So basically federal laws say that as long as the truck is less than 26k you can ALSO pull a trailer up to 10k and still not need a CDL. But most of the time each state has a different law than federal when it comes to DOT correct?

I would still think as soon as you hook up a trailer with two 5200# axles which has a rating of 10,400 to a truck with a rating of over 16k you would be over because the trailer being towed is NOT less than a 10k rating. Isn't that basically what the federal law is saying? So you need to find a trailer with exactly a 10k rating for that to work and nothing over that.

But most trailers with two 5200# axles are factory rated and tagged 9900#, 9990#, 10000# or something like that. So FEDERAL law says you can pull that with a truck 26K GVWR or less without a CDL.

pitrack
02-22-2012, 10:36 PM
But most trailers with two 5200# axles are factory rated and tagged 9900#, 9990#, 10000# or something like that. So FEDERAL law says you can pull that with a truck 26K GVWR or less without a CDL.

Got ya, then you gotta deal with State laws.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 10:51 PM
I was under the impression that as soon as your truck and trailer combined rating is over 26k you need a CDL.

Well your impression is wrong.

So basically federal laws say that as long as the truck is less than 26k you can ALSO pull a trailer up to 10k and still not need a CDL.

Yes.

But most of the time each state has a different law than federal when it comes to DOT correct?

I don't know of any state that varies from this.

I would still think as soon as you hook up a trailer with two 5200# axles which has a rating of 10,400

As I already pointed out that is astupid assumption.


to a truck with a rating of over 16k you would be over because the trailer being towed is NOT less than a 10k rating.

You don;t know what the rating is. Axle rating has NOTHING to do with GVWR.

Isn't that basically what the federal law is saying? So you need to find a trailer with exactly a 10k rating for that to work and nothing over that.

To hit 36k exactly without a CDL, yes.

Probably the best post in this thread, the rules are different everywhere.

Sans CA there is next to no difference in CDL state to state.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 10:52 PM
Got ya, then you gotta deal with State laws.

Ummmm. No.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 10:56 PM
BTW. I have three trailers with a pair of 5200s under them. One is 10k GVWR, one is 12k GVWR and one is 14k GVWR.:waving:

Trailers with a 10,400 GVWR are pretty rare.

KS_Grasscutter
02-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Ummmm. No.

You would sound a heck of a lot less like an arrogant prick if you would type at least a whole sentence reply rather then your snappy two word answers.

I was at first questioning the 26k thing, and you are correct, you are allowed more then 26k and not need a CDL if the tow vehicle is not over 26k and the trailer is not over 10k. If the trailer is over 10k, though, you need a Class A CDL, no matter what you are pulling it with.

I'm not even gonna bother arguing my point anymore about the GAWR determining trailer GVWR, must be a Kansas only thing (and maybe Nebraska?) That or the person I heard it from was wrong (can't remember if it was a State Trooper or a trailer dealer).

93Chevy
02-22-2012, 11:31 PM
LOL, who cares if he's an arrogant prick? He's right. He's the only member on this site that gives consistently correct answers about CDL and DOT requirements. State Troopers and Trailer Dealers are not reliable sources of DOT information. State Troopers think they know all the DOT laws and the Trailer Dealers blow smoke. And don't bother calling the DOT office because you can't get a straight answer from a bureaucrat. You just have to read the laws yourself and/or talk to somebody who knows the laws better than yourself.

KS_Grasscutter
02-22-2012, 11:37 PM
LOL, who cares if he's an arrogant prick? He's right. He's the only member on this site that gives consistently correct answers about CDL and DOT requirements. State Troopers and Trailer Dealers are not reliable sources of DOT information. State Troopers think they know all the DOT laws and the Trailer Dealers blow smoke. And don't bother calling the DOT office because you can't get a straight answer from a bureaucrat. You just have to read the laws yourself and/or talk to somebody who knows the laws better than yourself.

Shouldn't you base your information on what the State Trooper says, since he'll be the guy writing you tickets? What's right or wrong doesn't matter as much as what will get you ticketed for, does it?

Duffster
02-22-2012, 11:42 PM
If the trailer is over 10k, though, you need a Class A CDL, no matter what you are pulling it with.


WRONG.

(Short enough answer for ya?)

93Chevy
02-22-2012, 11:43 PM
Shouldn't you base your information on what the State Trooper says, since he'll be the guy writing you tickets? What's right or wrong doesn't matter as much as what will get you ticketed for, does it?

State Troopers enforce the law, they don't write it or interpret it. I'm not knocking state troopers by any means, but there's tons of tiny little laws (like you can run a 26k truck and 10k trailer and not need a Class A). It's hard to be 100% current on every little law. My buddy has had to deal with a couple cops who were incorrect in the past, dealing both with emissions regulations and proper equipment strapping. Not CDL per se, but my point is the same: cops can be wrong.

If the Trooper writes you a ticket for something that you didn't do wrong, then you have the right to defend yourself in front of Judge, who's job it is to interpret the law.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 11:43 PM
I'm not even gonna bother arguing my point anymore about the GAWR determining trailer GVWR, must be a Kansas only thing (and maybe Nebraska?) That or the person I heard it from was wrong (can't remember if it was a State Trooper or a trailer dealer).

Your not going to argue it because you have no argument.

To think that GAWR (automatically) sets GVWR is just plain stupid. First or second hand.

Duffster
02-22-2012, 11:45 PM
Shouldn't you base your information on what the State Trooper says, since he'll be the guy writing you tickets? What's right or wrong doesn't matter as much as what will get you ticketed for, does it?

I would think a lawyer would be better. :rolleyes:

MDLawn
02-23-2012, 12:05 PM
I love these arguments,

From the page of the NEW YORK STATE DMV on COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE


Class B CDL

GVWR of more than 26,000lbs. (Class B may tow vehicles with a GVWR or 10,000lbs or less, or may tow a vehcile of more than 10,000lbs providing the GCWR is not more than 26,000lbs)


No interstate commerce.


So with a class B you can be less than 36k. You need a class A if the trailer would be over 10k where the GCWR is over 26k. Doesnt make a lot of sense but its there in black and white and here is the link if you'd like to refute (page 2). Again NYS only.

http://dmv.ny.gov/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf

ParkWelding
02-23-2012, 01:41 PM
I love these arguments,

From the page of the NEW YORK STATE DMV on COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE


Class B CDL

GVWR of more than 26,000lbs. (Class B may tow vehicles with a GVWR or 10,000lbs or less, or may tow a vehcile of more than 10,000lbs providing the GCWR is not more than 26,000lbs)


No interstate commerce.


So with a class B you can be less than 36k. You need a class A if the trailer would be over 10k where the GCWR is over 26k. Doesnt make a lot of sense but its there in black and white and here is the link if you'd like to refute (page 2). Again NYS only.

http://dmv.ny.gov/broch/cdl/cdl10sec01.pdf


A "Class B" is almost useless if you are working in the construction field, unless you are never towing a trailer. Like maybe for a crane operator, delivering construction materials, concrete truck, running a dump truck for a gravel pit where you would never tow anything.

MDLawn
02-23-2012, 01:46 PM
A "Class B" is almost useless if you are working in the construction field, unless you are never towing a trailer. Like maybe for a crane operator, delivering construction materials, concrete truck, running a dump truck for a gravel pit where you would never tow anything.

I saw you erased the other part of what you were saying, why? Yes the Class B seems useless.

ParkWelding
02-23-2012, 08:14 PM
I saw you erased the other part of what you were saying, why? Yes the Class B seems useless.

Because my fingers typed faster than my brain computed what you wrote.

360ci
02-26-2012, 01:30 AM
If you plan to grow your outfit where you need a 26K Gross Combined weight rating, I say it's time to just bite the bullet and get a CDL. I got mine and I tow with a Durango! I rarely go over 10K gross and am eyeballing a new HD, but if I ever need a larger truck than that, I don't have to wait to go over 26K.

Class B is useless, unless you can find a used school bus in decent shape and convert the back 20 feet to flat bed space and throw on a pintle hook. Even then you'd have to take into account any tight turns with the 'school bus effect'.

93Chevy
02-26-2012, 08:26 AM
Or you could just buy a flatbed.

360ci
02-26-2012, 09:55 AM
I saw a school bus converted to seat 8-10 passengers, and the rest was a flat deck. The bus was painted flat black so knowingly it was sitting in someones yard and was purchased on the cheap. If the bus had air brakes it could be good for 23K gross.... If you have a welding shop or know someone that's an added bonus.

360ci
02-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Shouldn't you base your information on what the State Trooper says, since he'll be the guy writing you tickets? What's right or wrong doesn't matter as much as what will get you ticketed for, does it?

I knew a guy who did long haul, and I couldn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes. It was a ticket given to him in Alabama. He didn't know what the problem was when he was pulled over as the speed limit was right on to his truck/gps speed. The officer couldn't find anything wrong, and wrote a ticket up for an unsecured pillow.